Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[EVENKEEL]

38 minutes ago, BL1958 said:

The way I see it is this, the only thing that has changed is when you bring money into Thailand, nothing else. 

Previously if you brought money into Thailand in the same year, you had to file a tax return and pay any taxes on it. 

How many expats have been bringing in their pension in the same year and technically should have been filing a tax return and did so?

I think I can hear a pin drop, no one. Most didn't even know about this and lived here for years and no one filed a tax return and the tax dept never came knocking on their door, in fact it wasn't even mentioned in the media or any expat advice sources... up until now. 

I don't even think the tax debt has even thought a lot about us expats regarding taxes, the change from deferring bringing in money any year from the current year was to catch wealthy Thais escaping taxes. 

You get a gold 🌟 star. 

[Powder]

Carden, who? Only afraid his wallet smells unions.

You believe he really is caring about all those expats and pensionados? no way. 

a friend of me went to the revenue, English not possible, his wife was told, not need to show up here again. 

More the 40% of the Thai citizen don't pay tax. WHAT? yes that's correct.

What's the government doing about it? NADA.

The government started with a digital money project. Failure

and what about the elites who store their money elsewhere?

And pls stop talking about fairness about paying taxes. i already pay enough tax in my home country, even now, living in Thailand

 

[Badrabbit]

I tried to get information at my local tax office, I told them "I pay tax in my country on my 3 small pensions"  they replied " do you want to pay tax here, if you pay tax already dont pay tax here"

It will be a nightmare if this becomes law.

[Presnock]

23 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

 

Very well said. 

 

 

I have for 20+ years but it is a civil service pension and US DTA says only the US can tax it ...jike social security

 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Nickcage49 said:

A link to TRD would be nice or to the form.

don't need a link, just google the Thai revenue department - English is that is what you want - they have a lot of different sections.

 

[FritsSikkink]

9 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I tried to get information at my local tax office, I told them "I pay tax in my country on my 3 small pensions"  they replied " do you want to pay tax here, if you pay tax already dont pay tax here"

It will be a nightmare if this becomes law.

It is law already

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Nickcage49 said:

A link to TRD would be nice or to the form.

 

https://rd.go.th/english/index-eng.html

 

New document added in English.

 

HOW DO FOREIGNERS LIVING IN THAILAND PAY TAX?
According to section 41 of the Revenue Code
24 September 2024

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

Note this from page 5 of the PDF:

If foreign-sourced income is remitted partially, the taxable
amount shall be apportioned accordingly.

 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I wonder why expats are suspicious of other expats who run businesses here?

Jealousy I guess

[jojothai]

Cancelled post.

I used a quote but it did not show.

Have to re-do.

Edited November 7 by jojothai
Cancelled do again

[NoDisplayName]

20 minutes ago, Letseng said:

You get around the limit by leaving the country after 182 days. Come back another year.

 

a foreigner who stays in Thailand for 180 days or more
in a tax (calendar) year

[Thingamabob]

Most people will look after their tax affairs in due time. They don't need advice from expat tax 'advisors' grubbing about for business.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Jealousy? Of what exactly? 

 

If you're a tax refugee, I can see concern. But the huge majority of guys here live off of funds already taxed in their home country.

 

Along comes Lister and stirs the pot. I gave a link to Ministry of Finance saying absolutely nothing has been decided and if it is it will takes years. There's a certain group of paper pushing retirees who can't let go of their old life.

I dunno, people building something and being successful.

 

You talk about Lister stirring the pot but if it weren't for the likes of him and others, a lot of people either wouldn't know or they would be poorer for having paid money to some local accountant and still not knowing the answers.

 

 

[jojothai]

4 hours ago, mfd101 said:

I propose in February to visit the 2 helpful young ladies I dealt with at the local TRD, with my recently completed and approved Oz tax return for the Oz financial year July23-June24, 

At present tax only applies to money transmitted from abroad or earned here. So if you transmitted money then the Oz return should help to avoid double taxation on the amount.

but unfortunately the tax year here is different.its the end of the year, so its hard to know what they will tell you they need.

If they introduce tax on global income one of the problems is how we will deal with end of tax year here.

If UK is end of tax year april, people will not yet have their uktax return for the requirements period end of thai taxyear at 31 december.

It will be necessary to show income from january to end of the year, and how any DTA calculation of tax paid elsewhere can be made. 

God only knows how this will work out.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, BL1958 said:

The way I see it is this, the only thing that has changed is when you bring money into Thailand, nothing else. 

Previously if you brought money into Thailand in the same year, you had to file a tax return and pay any taxes on it. 

How many expats have been bringing in their pension in the same year and technically should have been filing a tax return and did so?

I think I can hear a pin drop, no one. Most didn't even know about this and lived here for years and no one filed a tax return and the tax dept never came knocking on their door, in fact it wasn't even mentioned in the media or any expat advice sources... up until now. 

I don't even think the tax debt has even thought a lot about us expats regarding taxes, the change from deferring bringing in money any year from the current year was to catch wealthy Thais escaping taxes. 

"How many expats have been bringing in their pension in the same year".

 

All the expats who rely on the income method for their vosa's, that's a lot of people. And also all those expats who rely on their pensions every month for living expenses, that's even more people.

 

FWIW lots of us have been filing tax returns here for the past decade or more.

 

 

[kuzmabruk]

2 hours ago, Gsxrnz said:

My lifelong policy is to treat the taxman like a mushroom, and keep them in the dark. I won't be changing my policy - they can come and find me. Catch me if you can. 

You just antagonized them.  Best of luck.  555

[lch]

7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

I think I’ll wait, thanks. Certainly won’t be buying houses and cars again in the near future.  

You are so right, no more expat POUND!

[Lacessit]

I have enough in pre-2024 savings to last for the next 5-6 years of expenses. My pension can accumulate in an Australian bank.

 

As for a TIN here, I will get one when Immigration tells me I need one.

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

Question 1... does saving count as income if transferred from overseas account into a Thai account.. technically savings are not income.

Question 2... how do you get around the 160 day limit.

Any savings prior to 2024 are non-taxable. You would need statements to show the balances on 31/12/2023.

 

It's 180 days. You would need to stay in other countries for 185 days in the calendar year.

[norsurin]

7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

I think I’ll wait, thanks. Certainly won’t be buying houses and cars again in the near future.  

Good idea.I will never ever buy any kind of properties in Thailand.

[norsurin]

Not surprised at all.The next is the properties they coming after.Im happy i dont have anything in Thailand.

I prefer wake up in the morning without any kind of headache about taxes or other problems.

U cant trust this country.

[trainman34014]

I've already spoken to my local Tax Office about this as i visit at least once a year to file my claim for a refund of the Tax Interest Payments taken by the Banks on our Accounts holding the Funds for Visa.

 

As i already have a Tax Number and ID Card for this purpose i asked if i will need another one later for these new rules and they laughed and said 'probably not in your lifetime'.   They went on to say they have recieved not a single word from Head Office about any forthcoming changes but, as you are already a registered claimant if there are any changes you will be informed accordingly.   Parting shot from them was 'see you next year when you claim your refund'.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I tend to agree that people with assessable income remitted into Thailand would do well to submit a return for 2024 even if - -as will be true for many -- they end up owing no tax. (For those whose income is taxed in their home country, this is assuming the TRD does in fact amend the forms to allow people to claim a credit on taxes paid abroad).

 

If you have a smidgin of remitted assessable income well below being taxable -- after TEDA -- why subject yourself to filing, and for subjecting yourself to getting a TIN? Just stay off the radar.

 

And, remember -- only if Thailand has secondary taxation rights per DTA, like on rental incomes, will a Thai tax return have to absorb a tax credit. But if the DTA says Thailand has exclusionary/primary taxation rights -- then the whole enchilada is taxable, and keepable, by Thailand (and no need for a tax credit line for foreign taxes). But, so what? If that kind of remitted income is well short of being taxable in whole by Thailand, after TEDA -- in my "smidgin" example -- again, save yourself the hassle of getting a TIN, and filing a tax return.

 

Yeah, we hear about having to file if your "smidgin" assessable income exceeds 60/120/220/whatever. And if you don't -- a 2000 baht fine. Never happened, and never will. But if it did, well worth the cost for not wasting time with TINs, filings -- and putting yourself on TRd's radar screen.

[Thingamabob]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Jealousy? Of what exactly? 

 

If you're a tax refugee, I can see concern. But the huge majority of guys here live off of funds already taxed in their home country.

 

Along comes Lister and stirs the pot. I gave a link to Ministry of Finance saying absolutely nothing has been decided and if it is it will takes years. There's a certain group of paper pushing retirees who can't let go of their old life.

Well said.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Since the Thai tax form does not provide any means of declaring nion-assessable income, and there has been no indication that will change, it makes zero sense for people without assessable income to submit a Thai tax return. You'd have to show 0 income, which would surely lead to questions/problems.

 

I tend to agree that people with assessable income remitted into Thailand would do well to submit a return for 2024 even if - -as will be true for many -- they end up owing no tax. (For those whose income is taxed in their home country, this is assuming the TRD does in fact amend the forms to allow people to claim a credit on taxes paid abroad).

 

But not people without assessable income , IMO (e.g: people whose only remittances are US Social Security, or savings from earnings prior to 2024).

I agree with this assessment. 

 

Another poster made a valid point earlier when he said he would file, even though he had no tax to pay. His motive was that he wanted to identify himself to TRD as a small fish and to build up a track record as such....the idea has merit.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I gave a link to Ministry of Finance saying absolutely nothing has been decided and if it is it will takes years. There's a certain group of paper pushing retirees who can't let go of their old life.

If you mean that link you posted a couple of times, the one that talked about Negative Income Tax, that's something completely and totally different from what everyone else is talking about currently and has nothing to do with the need to file a return next year.

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, ballpoint said:

 

I'm going to do similar.  I legally haven't filed a tax return since I retired here, due to the previous 'not remitting income in the same year it was earned' rule.  That will change under the new guidelines though, whereby, if things stay the same over the next few years, I will be required to file one. 

 

At the end of 2023, I transferred enough to live on until the end of 2026 into a since untouched overseas bank account, so will not be obliged to file a return until early 2028 -  for the assessable money I will need to remit in 2027, and could have an easy, tax-free life till then.  However, I am going to remit assessable income, with a value just over my threshold, each year during this period and file annual returns based on that.  I have two reasons for doing this:

 

Firstly, by bringing in the extra each year, by 2027 I will have built up enough here to get by with a much smaller remit that year, meaning far less tax to pay then.

Secondly, I will have established a fairly low assessable income pattern over the next few years, for which I will have the paperwork should they choose to audit me again.  Sometimes it's better to intentionally fly above the radar and be identified as a small player, than try to fly below it and risk being caught out.  Sure, if the law does change, or revert back to the good old days, then I will lose a few thousand baht in tax.  However, if it doesn't, then I will make quite a saving.

 

In January 2028 I will assess the situation based on the then interpretation of the law.  If things haven't changed, then I may become a non-resident that year while realising and remitting another capital gain, lasting me another three years, while continuing to remit the small amount each year once I go back to being a tax resident.  Rinse and repeat over a four year cycle.

 

 

A classic example of how to complicate a simple issue.

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Thingamabob said:

A classic example of how to complicate a simple issue.

 

I disagree, BP has a very sensible plan.

[soalbundy]

7 hours ago, proton said:

No thanks, and any tax return forms will go in the bin. No taxation without representation, or at least something back for it.

Everyone's a rebel until the police are at the door

[phitsanulokjohn]

Here we are almost an hour long interview,straight from Tom Carden's mouth.

 

 

Edited November 7 by phitsanulokjohn

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

"How many expats have been bringing in their pension in the same year".

 

All the expats who rely on the income method for their vosa's, that's a lot of people. And also all those expats who rely on their pensions every month for living expenses, that's even more people.

 

FWIW lots of us have been filing tax returns here for the past decade or more.

 

No, not "lots" of expats have filed Thai tax returns. It's actually very, very few, as a % proportion. 

 

The vast majority of those using the income method for their visas have never filed a Thai tax return, despite many technically breaching the laws, for many years, with zero consequences.

 

IMO, next year will be no different.