Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

"How many expats have been bringing in their pension in the same year".

 

All the expats who rely on the income method for their vosa's, that's a lot of people. And also all those expats who rely on their pensions every month for living expenses, that's even more people.

 

FWIW lots of us have been filing tax returns here for the past decade or more.

 

No, not "lots" of expats have filed Thai tax returns. It's actually very, very few, as a % proportion. 

 

The vast majority of those using the income method for their visas have never filed a Thai tax return, despite many technically breaching the laws, for many years, with zero consequences.

 

IMO, next year will be no different. 

 

 

 

[sambum]

8 hours ago, daveAustin said:

I think I’ll wait, thanks. Certainly won’t be buying houses and cars again in the near future.  

 

Wise move! This Government are trying their best to woo as many (wealthy) ex pats to Thailand to invest in business or retire here, and then say (to the wealthy ones) "Oh but you will have to pay 35% tax on any money you bring into the country"

Seems to me like they are waving the stick about sooner than the carrot!

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

No, not "lots" of expats have filed Thai tax returns. It's actually very, very few, as a % proportion. 

 

The vast majority of those using the income method for their visas have never filed a Thai tax return, despite many technically breaching the laws, for many years, with zero consequences.

 

IMO, next year will be no different. 

 

 

 

And your proof of these things is where?

[NanLaew]

According to "tax expert" Thomas Carden, "There has been some confusion at local revenue offices due to a lack of information from the TRD head office in Bangkok, making it challenging for expatriates to understand their obligations."

 

My personal experience as follows:

 

There has been some confusion at local revenue offices due to a lack of information from the TRD head office in Bangkok, making it challenging for their own staff to fulfill their obligations to the foreigners seeking a TIN.

[ignore it]

Guess it's more proper to shill for business than just say what's happening,

Like if it's US social security taxed or not taxed?

Like disability benefits taxed or not taxed?

 

Answering simple questions would be improper I guess.

[norsurin]

9 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

Wise move! This Government are trying their best to woo as many (wealthy) ex pats to Thailand to invest in business or retire here, and then say (to the wealthy ones) "Oh but you will have to pay 35% tax on any money you bring into the country"

Seems to me like they are waving the stick about sooner than the carrot!

I agree with u.First ur gf/wife take ur money and property.And u get ripped off everywhere..dual pricing etc etc

And now the government coming after expats.Whats next?

 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, ignore it said:

Guess it's more proper to shill for business than just say what's happening,

Like if it's US social security taxed or not taxed?

Like disability benefits taxed or not taxed?

 

Answering simple questions would be improper I guess.

Those questions have been asked and answered hundreds of times in the tax related threads in this forum!

[10baht]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

 

Carden advised using professional tax services to navigate the system

Catching like money going into a cash register. 💸💰 for his business????

[PomPolo]

Looks like one big advertisement to me - go figure someone with a a tax advisory business would recommend this?

Think I'll just take my chances then migrate to the Philippines or Vietnam if they come knocking!

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, Captor said:

Because we get something back in every country where we are a resident and pay tax?

Sure, continue complain. If you wish to live in Thailand, that´s what you need to do. Stop whining about it. It´s another option. Go home and get something for you paid tax.

Edited 1 hour ago by Gottfrid

[sambum]

5 minutes ago, norsurin said:

I agree with u.First ur gf/wife take ur money and property.And u get ripped off everywhere..dual pricing etc etc

And now the government coming after expats.Whats next?

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Is this the same tax adviser who was telling Americans that their IRA/401k withdrawals were not subject to US Federal income tax due to the operation of the Thai-US DTA and also were not subject to Thai taxation due to the prior-year remittance rule?

[Keeps]

Is anyone able to offer advice/opion on the following scenario please.

 

I do not plan to pay any tax in the UK by initially withdrawing only up to my personal tax allowance from my SIPP. It's currently around £12,500 threshold per annum. I can then withdraw money from my Stocks and Shares ISA (which is more sizeable than my SIPP having taken advantage of max deposits in all it's former guises) which could in theory be another £25,000+ per annum should I so wish. 

Stocks and Shares ISA's are tax exempt.

 

No tax due on this amount in the UK but what would my tax situation in Thailand be?

 

I'm not due my state pension for another 12 years and fully understand that receiving that, plus withdrawals from my SIPP would attract UK tax.

 

I'm more interested in my potential tax liabilities in Thailand as it would stand now, not being due to pay any tax whatsoever in the UK.

 

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, norsurin said:

I agree with u.First ur gf/wife take ur money and property.And u get ripped off everywhere..dual pricing etc etc

And now the government coming after expats.Whats next?

 

They want your soul!

[sambum]

18 minutes ago, sambum said:

25 minutes ago, norsurin said:

I agree with u.First ur gf/wife take ur money and property.And u get ripped off everywhere..dual pricing etc etc

And now the government coming after expats.Whats next?

 

I think what's next is that all those wealthy people that Thailand was hoping to attract will be saying "No Thanks" and take their money and custom elsewhere,  and the Government will be trying to find a way to squeeze more money out of the people that are here already. Ring any bells?

Having spoken to a few of my "bar stool lawyers", quite a few of them have said that they pay UK tax  on their pensions already, which is almost the lowest in Europe anyway. They also have their pensions "frozen" by the British Government,(no annual increments) because they live in Thailand, so you can imagine the plans that are being made and talked about should the Thai government try to tax them on money that they have already been taxed on anyway!!! And don't expect them to be hopping in and out of the country every 6 months - many of them are too old to "hop" anywhere! 

So, Thailand will lose out on all the revenue that the wealthy  people/businessmen would have been bringing in to the country, and also losing the income generated by the ex pat community - many of whom kept the small family businesses of this country going when Covid was rampant.

 

And then the "blame game" will start!

Edited 1 hour ago by sambum

[chiang mai]

Just now, Keeps said:

Is anyone able to offer advice/opion on the following scenario please.

 

I do not plan to pay any tax in the UK by initially withdrawing only up to my personal tax allowance from my SIPP. It's currently around £12,500 threshold per annum. I can then withdraw money from my Stocks and Shares ISA (which is more sizeable than my SIPP having taken advantage of max deposits in all it's former guises) which could in theory be another £25,000+ per annum should I so wish. 

Stocks and Shares ISA's are tax exempt.

 

No tax due on this amount in the UK but what would my tax situation in Thailand be?

 

I'm not due my state pension for another 12 years and fully understand that receiving that, plus withdrawals from my SIPP would attract UK tax.

 

I'm more interested in my potential tax liabilities in Thailand as it would stand now, not being due to pay any tax whatsoever in the UK.

 

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.

Your UK Personal Allowance doesn't carry across to Thailand, it is not recognised here. It is replaced by Thai tax deductions and allowances which can total a similar amount but will vary from person to person.

 

Your ISA income and SIPP income are almost certainly taxable here, only UK Government related pensions (not state pension) is free of tax in Thailand. How old are you, are you married and do you have children here?

[Keeps]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

Your UK Personal Allowance doesn't carry across to Thailand, it is not recognised here. It is replaced by Thai tax deductions and allowances which can total a similar amount but will vary from person to person.

 

Your ISA income and SIPP income are almost certainly taxable here, only UK Government related pensions (not state pension) is free of tax in Thailand. How old are you, are you married and do you have children here?

Thank you for your quick response.

 

I'm currently 56, not married (but do actually plan to but not in the immediate future, very long term partner). No children.

 

Be interested on your response to my reply and as to whether my current scenario has any bearing on potential tax liabilities. 

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, Keeps said:

Is anyone able to offer advice/opion on the following scenario please.

 

I do not plan to pay any tax in the UK by initially withdrawing only up to my personal tax allowance from my SIPP. It's currently around £12,500 threshold per annum. I can then withdraw money from my Stocks and Shares ISA (which is more sizeable than my SIPP having taken advantage of max deposits in all it's former guises) which could in theory be another £25,000+ per annum should I so wish. 

Stocks and Shares ISA's are tax exempt.

 

No tax due on this amount in the UK but what would my tax situation in Thailand be?

 

I'm not due my state pension for another 12 years and fully understand that receiving that, plus withdrawals from my SIPP would attract UK tax.

 

I'm more interested in my potential tax liabilities in Thailand as it would stand now, not being due to pay any tax whatsoever in the UK.

 

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.

Sorry, I see that you say your state pension is due in 12 years which would make you 50 something. 

 

Ouch, your TEDA (deductions/allowances) are minimal, they don't start to increase meaningfully until you are over age 65 years. You are entitled to a Personal Allowance of 60k baht, plus 50% of your pension income, up to 100k baht. The first 150k of baht income is zero rated so off the top of my head, you can expect around 300k baht per year in TEDA, the rest will be taxable in stepped increments of 5%, 10% and 15%.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Keeps said:

Thank you for your quick response.

 

I'm currently 56, not married (but do actually plan to but not in the immediate future, very long term partner). No children.

 

Be interested on your response to my reply and as to whether my current scenario has any bearing on potential tax liabilities. 

A wife and children are tax deductions, that was why I asked.

[Keeps]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

A wife and children are tax deductions, that was why I asked.

Thank you for your very helpful comments. I will certainly have to give some consideration as to how and how much I remit to Thailand.

 

Fortunately or unfortunately (however way you look at it) I am going to have to spend some significant time in the UK due to family matters and a long standing medical issue. In the immediate future that should/could restrict my time in Thailand to around 6 months of the year (2 months in, 2 months out). Probably worth ensuring it is slightly less than 180 days per year and topping up my cash holdings over here somewhat.

 

It's a fine balance of not maximizing my returns in the UK against potential Thai tax liabilities.

 

Thanks again for the useful input.

[racket]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Carden advised using professional tax services to navigate the system, as most pensioners on savings may owe little or nothing. Supporting bank or tax documents are unnecessary when submitting the forms.

 

Someone is trying to make money spreading fear. 

 

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Reflecting on global trends, Carden mentioned that taxing foreign residents has become common worldwide, and it's essential to comply even if no income is remitted to Thailand.

 

Without mentioning one country and an example. 

 

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Keeps said:

Thank you for your very helpful comments. I will certainly have to give some consideration as to how and how much I remit to Thailand.

 

Fortunately or unfortunately (however way you look at it) I am going to have to spend some significant time in the UK due to family matters and a long standing medical issue. In the immediate future that should/could restrict my time in Thailand to around 6 months of the year (2 months in, 2 months out). Probably worth ensuring it is slightly less than 180 days per year and topping up my cash holdings over here somewhat.

 

It's a fine balance of not maximizing my returns in the UK against potential Thai tax liabilities.

 

Thanks again for the useful input.

One thing to keep in mind is that income that is both earned and remitted to Thailand in a year when you are not tax resident here, is free of Thai tax. Maybe you can play around with that concept and find a formula that works for you. An example might be to spend 179 days here, return to the UK, withdraw funds from the SIPP and ISA and remit them to Thailand but don't return to live here until 6 months later.

Edited 1 hour ago by chiang mai

[BritScot]

Definitely getting a feeling of "Dejavu"! I remember the same speculation "it will never happen" with the 800,000baht in the bank. Guess what it did. Immediately becoming part of immigration processes.  I can 100% see this being added to the mountain of paperwork required to extend your visa. Like I was told over 20 years ago. Never invest more than you can afford to walk away from in Thailand and I lived by that. Yes I have a small house but I have two children (Thai/British), yes I've bought vehicles but they can be sold. After 8/9 years in 2019 I/we did exactly that "walked away". Immigration statement "its only 800,000baht" was the straw that brock the camel's back!!! Moving back to the uk was the best move ever for us. Children really blossoming in the UK.

[sambum]

48 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Your UK Personal Allowance doesn't carry across to Thailand, it is not recognised here. It is replaced by Thai tax deductions and allowances which can total a similar amount but will vary from person to person.

 

Your ISA income and SIPP income are almost certainly taxable here, only UK Government related pensions (not state pension) is free of tax in Thailand. How old are you, are you married and do you have children here?

"....only UK Government related pensions (not state pension) is free of tax in Thailand."

 

Are they not the same thing, or by "UK Government related pensions" do you mean something like a Civil Service pension, or a Serviceman's pension?

[Thingamabob]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

I disagree, BP has a very sensible plan.

I beg to differ. Have a nice day.

[Surasak]

10 hours ago, UWEB said:

Have tried to register, they just told me don't come back.

I got the same. Don't know why you come, not necessary.

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

And again we will have a long winding thread, right? It´s just to go to the tax office and get a TIN. At the same time they will give you the tax form, so you have when time to file. Nothing more nothing less. Now can close the tread. All information that are going to be posted here, we already have in numerous thread already. You just have to pay tax on taxable income in almost every country you become a resident. Why everyone complain and think Thailand is the promised land and a tax haven?

The main problem is that a lot of people already pay a full tax contribution to their home country and are rightly miffed about the possibility of being taxed twice. Something most people are financially unable to comply with. Many have a house and family here and don't like the possibility of having to spend half the year in another country, or worse leaving for good.

[Surasak]

8 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Didnt I read somewhere it was ILLEGAL for non Thai to give Tax advice about Thai Tax ?

You most certainly did, and not so many days ago. I visited my local tax office a few months ago, August I believe, and was sent away. That will do for me.