Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[Gottfrid]

On 11/7/2024 at 3:39 PM, norsurin said:

I agree with u.First ur gf/wife take ur money and property.And u get ripped off everywhere..dual pricing etc etc

And now the government coming after expats.Whats next?

 

Ops! So many wrongs, that it´s hard to know where to start. How can your wife or girlfriend take your money and property if you not give it in the first place?

 

If you get ripped off by dual pricing, you also allow yourself to be ripped off. There are two things that can prevent that. A Thai pink id or a drivers license usually gets you the Thai price. The other alternative is to not visit and pay on places that engage in such activities.

 

What? The government coming after expats? Are you for real? In most countries in the world you become a tax resident if you stay more than 180-185 days.

What´s Next? I don´t know. Maybe you and a one way trip to another country of choice that fits you much better.

[Jingthing]

I'm not really taking the advice to register seriously considering the source that will directly make money if people listen.

But I do have a question.

I intentionally am transferring in ZERO baht into Thailand this year for the very reason that I wanted to have a buffer until the policies and enforcement (if any) are made more clear.

So I have no plans of getting a tax ID to cover this year.

If I am audited at a later time for this year, I can't think of anything easier than proving that I didn't transfer in even one baht.

Am I wrong?

[chiang mai]

8 hours ago, thailand49 said:

 

Also, if and when it happens the biggest huddle they have America being one of the few countries that has a Duel Tax treaty with Thailand I've not seen anything from the leaders here to overturn that treaty.

Over 61 countries have dual tax agreements with Thailand, here's a list of them and the related agreements:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not really taking the advice to register seriously considering the source that will directly make money if people listen.

But I do have a question.

I intentionally am transferring in ZERO baht into Thailand this year for the very reason that I wanted to have a buffer until the policies and enforcement (if any) are made more clear.

So I have no plans of getting a tax ID to cover this year.

If I am audited at a later time for this year, I can't think of anything easier than proving that I didn't transfer in even one baht.

Am I wrong?

No you are not wrong, if you don't have assessable income, you do not need to file a return or get a TIN.

[Gknrd]

Joke of the year!

[Gaccha]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

The Thai government knows nothing about the investments and bank account I have in Australia.

 

You Sweet Summer Child.

 

This is how they know everything about your Australian money and investments.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

 

You Sweet Summer Child.

 

This is how they know everything about your Australian money and investments.

Shilling for a tax adviser.

 

If they do, they also know my money and investments predate 2024, and are therefore not taxable.

 

Thanks for stopping by.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Shilling for a tax adviser.

 

If they do, they also know my money and investments predate 2024, and are therefore not taxable.

 

Thanks for stopping by.

 

9 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

 

You Sweet Summer Child.

 

This is how they know everything about your Australian money and investments.

TRD knows what you tell them in your tax return, that's all you need to support, nothing more. Just having assets overseas doesn't expose you to any potential risk with TRD, unless you remit those assets to Thailand and you were supposed to declare them here but didn't. TRD doesn't have a list of all your global assets, whyever would they!

[NoDisplayName]

38 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not really taking the advice to register seriously considering the source that will directly make money if people listen.

But I do have a question.

I intentionally am transferring in ZERO baht into Thailand this year for the very reason that I wanted to have a buffer until the policies and enforcement (if any) are made more clear.

So I have no plans of getting a tax ID to cover this year.

If I am audited at a later time for this year, I can't think of anything easier than proving that I didn't transfer in even one baht.

Am I wrong?

 

Yes, if you plan to stay in Thailand for the foreseeable future.

 

Transfer in assessable funds earned this year up to your TEDA limit, along with some non-assessable funds to invest.  No need to file a tax return.

 

That means less potentially assessable funds to remit in '25 and '26.

 

 

Edited November 8 by NoDisplayName

[Yumthai]

4 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

TRD knows what you tell them in your tax return, that's all you need to support, nothing more. Just having assets overseas doesn't expose you to any potential risk with TRD, unless you remit those assets to Thailand and you were supposed to declare them here but didn't. TRD doesn't have a list of all your global assets, whyever would they!

Some think TRD would need access to offshore accounts balances+full transactions in order to double check, at audit time, the authenticity of the nice bank statement print-outs you hand them justifying that all remittances from your Georgian/Chilean bank were from savings prior 01/01/2024 therefore tax-exempted.

Or could we just assume that a stack of papers in local language will be more than enough to content them?

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Yes, if you plan to stay in Thailand for the foreseeable future.

 

Transfer in assessable funds earned this year up to your TEDA limit, along with some non-assessable funds to invest.  No need to file a tax return.

 

That means less potentially assessable funds to remit in '25 and '26.

 

 

That's good advice for sure but I prefer to keep this year a perfectly clean ZERO slate so there never can be any doubt.

At my level, I'm not really worried about paying much tax here ever.

I'm more worried about the mechanics of it and having to pay for greedy advisors.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's good advice for sure but I prefer to keep this year a perfectly clean ZERO slate so there never can be any doubt.

At my level, I'm not really worried about paying much tax here ever.

I'm more worried about the mechanics of it and having to pay for greedy advisors.

Is it just me, or do others notice these threads are almost always started by tax advisers?

[NoDisplayName]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's good advice for sure but I prefer to keep this year a perfectly clean ZERO slate so there never can be any doubt.

At my level, I'm not really worried about paying much tax here ever.

I'm more worried about the mechanics of it and having to pay for greedy advisors.

 

You don't need a tax advisor if I understand what "at my level" means.  If I recall, you have mostly US social security, along with some savings.

 

You know the allowances and deductions you are authorized.

You can read your country's DTA.

You can determine what, if any, of your remittances are assessable.

You simply keep your assessable remittances below the limit so as not required to file.

If you desire to file, get your TIN or have your pink ID activated for online file.

File your taxes if you think needed, with no documentation upload required.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Some think TRD would need access to offshore accounts balances+full transactions in order to double check, at audit time, the authenticity of the nice bank statement print-outs you hand them justifying that all remittances from your Georgian/Chilean bank were from savings prior 01/01/2024 therefore tax-exempted.

Or could we just assume that a stack of papers in local language will be more than enough to content them?

 

The things that you need to file a tax return and what you might need during an audit are very different.

 

I have never needed to supply any supporting documentation whenever I have filed a Thai tax return, I file and go and that's it.

 

I can't begin to guess what a person might need during an audit, it will depend entirely on the scope of their finances and what they declared.

 

But none of those things was the point that I made previously, which was TRD will only know what you tell them, unless of course you are audited and they find the need to start digging, in which case all bets are off.

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Is it just me, or do others notice these threads are almost always started by tax advisers?

Yep.

I don't even mind paying some tax here even though us non immigrants get nothing in return.

I wonder if they would better off saying expats not working in Thailand, just pay a 30,000 baht flat tax just for breathing the air here. I would be happy to pay it if i could avoid actually having to worry about filing and tax strategies all the time. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

You don't need a tax advisor if I understand what "at my level" means.  If I recall, you have mostly US social security, along with some savings.

 

You know the allowances and deductions you are authorized.

You can read your country's DTA.

You can determine what, if any, of your remittances are assessable.

You simply keep your assessable remittances below the limit so as not required to file.

If you desire to file, get your TIN or have your pink ID activated for online file.

File your taxes if you think needed, with no documentation upload required.

What seems simple to you is not simple to me.

[thailand49]

50 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Over 61 countries have dual tax agreements with Thailand, here's a list of them and the related agreements:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

Correction,  yes there are 61 countries but not all of them have withing the Treaty " Saving Clause "  U.S. happens to one of a dozen.

Thanks bye!  Do what you got to do good luck!

[NoDisplayName]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I have never needed to supply any supporting documentation whenever I have filed a Thai tax return, I file and go and that's it.

 

In 2018 when filing online using a yellow card TIN, I was required to upload a scan of my bank interest tax withholding receipt, along with scans of dividend receipts for my Thai broker.  A refund check was sent to my home address.

 

This year filing online with pink ID, these documents were not required.  I opened a KrungThai account to direct deposit my refund (checks no longer sent), as Bangkok Bank could not set up PromptPay with a pink ID.

 

 

Edited November 8 by NoDisplayName

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Is it just me, or do others notice these threads are almost always started by tax advisers?

 

Are you sure ?

 

I was pretty gobsmacked when a big 4 specialist did not know the difference between domestic tax policy / Law  and a DTA, and which had precedent for whom.

 

Utterly bizarre.

[NoDisplayName]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What seems simple to you is not simple to me.

 

The information is all contained within these threads.

The most difficult part will be filling out the online forms.

Ten minutes max if you have a Thai partner to translate for you.

Half an hour if you have to use google translate and DIY.

If that's too much trouble, go to a TRD office and they'll fill out the form for you.

 

And yes, very simple.  Assessable remittances are below your TEDA, you owe no tax, you don't need to file, unless you want a refund of interest tax withheld.

[DrJoy]

On 11/7/2024 at 8:40 AM, CharlieH said:

Didnt I read somewhere it was ILLEGAL for non Thai to give Tax advice about Thai Tax ?

You are so very right, my good sir !

[cliveshep]

On 11/7/2024 at 3:57 PM, chiang mai said:

Sorry, I see that you say your state pension is due in 12 years which would make you 50 something. 

 

Ouch, your TEDA (deductions/allowances) are minimal, they don't start to increase meaningfully until you are over age 65 years. You are entitled to a Personal Allowance of 60k baht, plus 50% of your pension income, up to 100k baht. The first 150k of baht income is zero rated so off the top of my head, you can expect around 300k baht per year in TEDA, the rest will be taxable in stepped increments of 5%, 10% and 15%.

So I'm on a UK State Pension, which my Thai wife and her two older sisters share as none of them has any income at all. Assuming that the Thai Authorities ignore the Double Taxation treaty with the UK  (they cannot be trusted really can they?)  I figure the safest way is to claim 4 x 150k tax free allowances by transferring 25% of my pension via WISE from my UK bank account to each one once a month. All of them will then have an income under the 150k  a year threshold. The wife can keep her share to pay bills by bank transfer, I transfer to her from here anyway, I'll just do it from the UK. No tax due on that amount as 25% of my monthly pension is not a lot.

 

The pension is not a lot, the UK are renowned in Europe for the smallest pensions anyway, pensioners get a choice of starve or keep warm and some years back so many froze to death in their homes that following a national outcry the Government gave all eligible pensioners a Winter Fuel allowance, not a lot but it helped. You Americans now got yourselves a Trump, we Brits got ourselves a Keir Starmer as PM and a Labour Government,

 

So the first thing Herr Starmer did was shout "Sieg Heil" (they got elected after 16 years of Conservative rule) and cancel Winter Fuel payments with immediate effect to release money to pay demands by the Rail workers Union who were threatening strike action. Labour love Unions, these workers already get £70,000 plus a year, pensioners up to £12,000 a year which is still taxed. So dividing that by 4 means none of us get past the Thai Tax free pay threshold. The sisters can keep their normal allowance from me and give the rest back in cash we can use to pay bills. It will cost a mere £100 or so extra in WISE fees a year to send it in 4 parts - peanuts. We can pay the utility bills cash in Big C if necessary.

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, cliveshep said:

So I'm on a UK State Pension, which my Thai wife and her two older sisters share as none of them has any income at all. Assuming that the Thai Authorities ignore the Double Taxation treaty with the UK  (they cannot be trusted really can they?)  I figure the safest way is to claim 4 x 150k tax free allowances by transferring 25% of my pension via WISE from my UK bank account to each one once a month. All of them will then have an income under the 150k  a year threshold. The wife can keep her share to pay bills by bank transfer, I transfer to her from here anyway, I'll just do it from the UK. No tax due on that amount as 25% of my monthly pension is not a lot.

 

The pension is not a lot, the UK are renowned in Europe for the smallest pensions anyway, pensioners get a choice of starve or keep warm and some years back so many froze to death in their homes that following a national outcry the Government gave all eligible pensioners a Winter Fuel allowance, not a lot but it helped. You Americans now got yourselves a Trump, we Brits got ourselves a Keir Starmer as PM and a Labour Government,

 

So the first thing Herr Starmer did was shout "Sieg Heil" (they got elected after 16 years of Conservative rule) and cancel Winter Fuel payments with immediate effect to release money to pay demands by the Rail workers Union who were threatening strike action. Labour love Unions, these workers already get £70,000 plus a year, pensioners up to £12,000 a year which is still taxed. So dividing that by 4 means none of us get past the Thai Tax free pay threshold. The sisters can keep their normal allowance from me and give the rest back in cash we can use to pay bills. It will cost a mere £100 or so extra in WISE fees a year to send it in 4 parts - peanuts. We can pay the utility bills cash in Big C if necessary.

What you've proposed amounts to tax evasion, fortunately there's no need to take such drastic action.

 

You are entitled to enough deductions/allowances (TEDA) under the Thai system to where you should be able to receive your UK State pension here yourself and not pay tax. Assuming you're over 65 and married, you will be entitled to about 500k in TEDA which should more than cover the state pension.

Edited November 8 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

7 hours ago, cliveshep said:

So I'm on a UK State Pension, which my Thai wife and her two older sisters share as none of them has any income at all. Assuming that the Thai Authorities ignore the Double Taxation treaty with the UK  (they cannot be trusted really can they?)  I figure the safest way is to claim 4 x 150k tax free allowances by transferring 25% of my pension via WISE from my UK bank account to each one once a month. All of them will then have an income under the 150k  a year threshold. The wife can keep her share to pay bills by bank transfer, I transfer to her from here anyway, I'll just do it from the UK. No tax due on that amount as 25% of my monthly pension is not a lot.

 

The pension is not a lot, the UK are renowned in Europe for the smallest pensions anyway, pensioners get a choice of starve or keep warm and some years back so many froze to death in their homes that following a national outcry the Government gave all eligible pensioners a Winter Fuel allowance, not a lot but it helped. You Americans now got yourselves a Trump, we Brits got ourselves a Keir Starmer as PM and a Labour Government,

 

So the first thing Herr Starmer did was shout "Sieg Heil" (they got elected after 16 years of Conservative rule) and cancel Winter Fuel payments with immediate effect to release money to pay demands by the Rail workers Union who were threatening strike action. Labour love Unions, these workers already get £70,000 plus a year, pensioners up to £12,000 a year which is still taxed. So dividing that by 4 means none of us get past the Thai Tax free pay threshold. The sisters can keep their normal allowance from me and give the rest back in cash we can use to pay bills. It will cost a mere £100 or so extra in WISE fees a year to send it in 4 parts - peanuts. We can pay the utility bills cash in Big C if necessary.

I read your post again and realised it needs some more explanation because you don't understand what your TEDA (Tax Exemptions Deductions and Allowances) are which I have listed below:

 

Personal allowance (you) - 60k baht

Personal allowance (wife) - 60k

Over age 65 years allowance - 190k

Expenses for pension income. 50% of pension, max 100K - 100k

 

Sub total 410k

 

In addition, the first 150k of assessable income is zero rated for tax, 

 

Total = 150k + 410k = 560K baht

 

Assuming your pension is the maximum of 220 Pounds per week, this equates to 501k Baht 

220 Pounds x 43 x 53).

 

All the above means you have no assessable income so you do not need to file a tax return. 

 

[kiwikeith]

On 11/7/2024 at 7:12 AM, daveAustin said:

I think I’ll wait, thanks. Certainly won’t be buying houses and cars again in the near future.  

I thought falangs were not allowed to give tax advice in Thailand 

[kiwikeith]

Just now, kiwikeith said:

I thought falangs were not allowed to give tax advice in Thailand 

Falang lawyers 

[redwood1]

27 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

I thought falangs were not allowed to give tax advice in Thailand 

 

People on this form who give tax advice need to be reprimanded ...

And certain members here who are daily serial offenders need to serve a life sentence in the Bangkok Hilton-Bang Kwang... 

Edited November 9 by redwood1

[Raindancer]

So, a person with  assessable income within their TEDA, does not need to complete a tax return.

 

But if their assessable income is more than the 60/120/ 220k, they still have to apply for a TIN?

 

Seems rather pointless. 

Edited November 9 by Raindancer
Correction

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Raindancer said:

So, a person with  assessable income within their TEDA, does not need to complete a tax return.

 

But if their assessable income is more than the 60/120/ 220k, they still have to apply for a TIN?

What the rules state and what appears to be common practise are two different things. 

 

The rules state that a tax resident who receives in excess of 60k baht in assessable income, must file a tax return, the amount increases to 120k if the income is via employment and increases again to 220k if married..

 

There is no concrete evidence that TRD levies a fine of 2k baht for not filing a return, when they were supposed to, some take this to be accepted practice that TRD doesn't want a bunch of null returns clogging up their system. Some members will tell us that no AN/TVF member has ever reported being fined for not filing a return and this may or may not be correct. If you think that AN membership is representative of the entire foreigner community in Thailand, this may be a safe bet, if it is not, caution is needed.

 

You must decide which road you want to go down.

 

 

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

So, a person with  assessable income within their TEDA, does not need to complete a tax return.

 

But if their assessable income is more than the 60/120/ 220k, they still have to apply for a TIN?

 

Assessable income above the  thresholds a tax return should be filed. The TEDA's will determine whether an individual has any tax to pay.

 

Income excluded from Thai Tax via a DTA is not assessable income and there is no need to get a TIN or file a tax return. Hard copies of where this income comes from and any tax paid should be kept in case it is needed at some point in the future.

 

You only require a TIN if you are going to file a tax return