Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

The USA will NOT release your 1040 complete tax forms to Thailand.  Now, if you yourself do end up having to report to Thailand all your tax records that is a different kettle of fish.  I would not trust Thailand with such information,  It will be interesting to see exactly how this tax reporting, assessing works and how Thailand will regulate or mediate it as there will be disputes over what is covered what is not covered, what is excluded, etc..

The TRD is not going to ask the IRS for your 1040, it's down to you to provide it, if it is even needed at all.

 

The Dual Tax Agreements are fairly clear as to who has primary taxation rights over which income, that is the main purpose of a DTA.

[Aussie999]

4 hours ago, skytrooper70 said:

This isn't about the American Revolution. If you want Thai representation, become a citizen and you'll get to vote. Otherwise, remain a visitor and follow the rules, including paying taxes, just as Green Card Holders must do, in the US. 

Have you tried getting Thai citizenship, unless you are a female, married to a Thai, the path is long, and hard, and even then, very few are granted... so your comment is not the best, except it gave you a chance to comment.

Edited 3 hours ago by Aussie999

[newnative]

I'll wait until it is a requirement to do my visa renewal.  

[Aussie999]

As a 70 yo Aussie, on the aged pension, no other income, I do not need to submit an Australian tax return... how would Thailand know my income, as the ATO say they do not release the returns.  As far as Thailand is concerned, I only have savings, that "could" come from superannuation, so is savings, not income.

[Aussie999]

18 hours ago, Letseng said:

You get around the limit by leaving the country after 182 days. Come back another year.

that does not suit those who live here, with family.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Aussie999 said:

As a 70 yo Aussie, on the aged pension, no other income, I do not need to submit an Australian tax return... how would Thailand know my income, as the ATO say they do not release the returns.  As far as Thailand is concerned, I only have savings, that "could" come from superannuation, so is savings, not income.

Thailand would not know anything, unless you tell them, that said, your bank sees all incoming funds transfers  and these are reported to the Central Bank. You might tell them because you decide to file a tax return and declare your assessable income. OR, you might tell them because you don't file a tax return and one day they decide to ask you why you haven't and you need to explain things. I personally would wish to avoid the latter at all costs, because several years down the road, that could get messy, having to gather records and prove my case.

[EVENKEEL]

31 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

The USA will NOT release your 1040 complete tax forms to Thailand.  Now, if you yourself do end up having to report to Thailand all your tax records that is a different kettle of fish.  I would not trust Thailand with such information,  It will be interesting to see exactly how this tax reporting, assessing works and how Thailand will regulate or mediate it as there will be disputes over what is covered what is not covered, what is excluded, etc..

There are so many variables to this that it's incomprehensible as to how it would work. In 15 yrs of making Thailand my main place with 5 yrs here full time I've never met one foreigner who filed taxes. The subject has never come up. Why is that?

 

I've been chastised and ridiculed for stating it's a ploy to drum up business for so called Tax experts. 

 

Besides our US 1040 form the folks here will need to deal with dozens of other countries and their tax forms.

 

Now, I can understand tax refugees, foreigners with huge amounts of money invested in Thailand, Thais who work overseas. These people should be the first to be scrutinized. But, to suggest the run of the mill retiree here is going to be hauled in for not paying tax is absurdly ludicrous. 

[EVENKEEL]

44 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

 

double

Edited 3 hours ago by EVENKEEL

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

But, to suggest the run of the mill retiree here is going to be hauled in for not paying tax is absurdly ludicrous. 

You use harsher and more emotive words than I would chose to describe these things. I think a probable future scenarios looks like this:

 

Not everyone decides to file when technically they should have, this may include pensioners (like me) and others on low incomes. One year or ten years down the road, the need to provide a copy of your Thai tax return emerges, either for Immigration and visa renewal purposes or because the TRD subjected you to a random audit, perhaps because you made a one time large funds transfer, for whatever reason. Or perhaps your overseas/home government wants to see it, for whatever reason.

 

The big problem in my world is ignoring all of this and then trying to play catch up later, along with all that may entail. Chasing documents and proof that is years old, trying to remember what you did when and why, penalties for having not abided by the rules which are suddenly being enforced more rigorously than in previous years. I don't know about others but I don't want that in my retirement years.

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

This is exactly what is going to happen. Next year when you go to renew your visa, they will show you your world wide income, or at least income from your home country, thanks to the new global reporting.

 

The message will be: You owe us this much, and you have to pay now. If not we will not renew your visa, and until you pay we will put you in the immigration detention center.

 

Trust me. This will be close to the truth.

That is humorous. You think way too highly of their capabilities. And you live in a world of fear. I don't. 

[YorkshireTyke]

An expert who doesn't know that you have to be working in Thailand to obtain a TIN.............................

[chiang mai]

Just now, YorkshireTyke said:

An expert who doesn't know that you have to be working in Thailand to obtain a TIN.............................

Nonsense, there is no such requirement.

[Dcheech]

This topic can go on forever.

One Question. Going by a popular notion that the 'tax rules are already on/in the book'. If by those rules I do not owe any taxes, do I still have to file a tax return?

Thanks
 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Dcheech said:

This topic can go on forever.

One Question. Going by a popular notion that the 'tax rules are already on/in the book'. If by those rules I do not owe any taxes, do I still have to file a tax return?

Thanks
 

Assuming you exceed the assessable income threshold of 60k in remitted income, and you are Thai tax resident: Technically, yes, customarily and anecdotally, no.

[lordgrinz]

3 minutes ago, Dcheech said:

This topic can go on forever.

One Question. Going by a popular notion that the 'tax rules are already on/in the book'. If by those rules I do not owe any taxes, do I still have to file a tax return?

Thanks
 

 

Everyone may answer that one differently, but the real question should be "do I legally still have to file a tax return?"

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Everyone may answer that one differently, but the real question should be "do I legally still have to file a tax return?"

To which the answer is, yes, as long as you are Thai tax resident and you have assessable income over 60k Baht per year.

[YorkshireTyke]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Nonsense, there is no such requirement.

 

Someone else who knows FA about it. Or maybe you know more than the staff in the Revenue Office?

 

Tax Identification | The Revenue Department (English Site)

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, YorkshireTyke said:

 

Someone else who knows FA about it. Or maybe you know more than the staff in the Revenue Office?

 

Tax Identification | The Revenue Department (English Site)

Gosh, we were wrong all along, let's all take our unnecessary TIN's back and demand a refund! And let's make sure to tell all the accountancy forms such as Price Waterhouse that they were wrong too, and all the foreign  embassies and the TRD themselves...I just can't imagine why they bothered putting out all those pointless announcements, when they weren't even needed!

 

Keep digging YT, you're constructing a fine hole to get buried in!

 

FYI

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by chiang mai

[Badrabbit]

19 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

It is law already

If it's law already why doesn't my revenue office know about it, as stated I tried to get information.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Badrabbit said:

If it's law already why doesn't my revenue office know about it, as stated I tried to get information.

It has been widely acknowledged the TRD has done a poor job of communicating with the regions on this issue, that should not come as any great surprise in Thailand where the same things happen with Immigration and banks.

[Gottfrid]

15 hours ago, Keeps said:

Don't worry everyone. The font of all knowledge has just answered all our questions. Nobody need ever to open a thread (or tread depending on how you like to spell it) in this regard again. Any queries, send a PM to the above poster as he has all the answers.

Very stylish reply. Have you ever thought about that you do not need to know everything. The only thing you need to do, is to declare your income and sources. After that, the people working will know how much tax to pay, if any.

[Gottfrid]

15 hours ago, riverhigh said:

If you are on a one year visa that can be teminated on the whim of a bureaucrat, you are not a resisednt.  You neither have the rights nor the representation of a resident. You are merely a glorified holiday maker on an extended visa. This is not taxes this is a unjustified money grab.

Maybe you should go back and read about what a tax resident means. By all means, continue to think you can just move away from your country and no have to pay taxes.

[Dcheech]

34 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Assuming you exceed the assessable income threshold of 60k in remitted income, and you are Thai tax resident: Technically, yes, customarily and anecdotally, no.

Thank you - I do not exceed the assessable income threshold ..... even though I am a tax resident.
 

 

32 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

but the real question should be "do I legally still have to file a tax return?"

So even that is up in the air. Thanks

I personally think this is all a big nothing BUT ... Going by the rules that are already out there, I'm fine. Still, I'm keeping a folder with pertinent documents; investment fund yearly statements, money received in Thai accounts, etc. on computer. In case questions arise. It's all I can do. - ----And not filing unless the Thai government clarifies the tax guidelines & demands one. 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Dcheech

[YorkshireTyke]

20 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Gosh, we were wrong all along, let's all take our unnecessary TIN's back and demand a refund! And let's make sure to tell all the accountancy forms such as Price Waterhouse that they were wrong too, and all the foreign  embassies and the TRD themselves...I just can't imagine why they bothered putting out all those pointless announcements, when they weren't even needed!

 

Keep digging YT, you're constructing a fine hole to get buried in!

 

FYI

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

 

 

All I see is income, therefore working or own a business in Thailand.

 

You say demand a refund so therefore you have been paying tax in Thailand. Tax on what?

 

Anyways I will take the advice of the lady in the Revenue office who refused to give me a TIN as I am not working in Thailand.

[Gottfrid]

16 hours ago, jesimps said:

The main problem is that a lot of people already pay a full tax contribution to their home country and are rightly miffed about the possibility of being taxed twice. Something most people are financially unable to comply with. Many have a house and family here and don't like the possibility of having to spend half the year in another country, or worse leaving for good.

Yeah, and that is just scaremongering. If you already paid tax on your money in another country, they will simply not get taxed in Thailand. You people are like children, digging up problem that does not exist. Sure, it will happen some mistakes and errors, but they will surely be sorted out.

[FritsSikkink]

14 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

If it's law already why doesn't my revenue office know about it, as stated I tried to get information.

The law is there but it will affect your income in 2024 which you have to declare in 2025. They will need to adjust the tax declaration forms and communication within government departments doesn't go very quick all the time.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireTyke said:

 

All I see is income, therefore working or own a business in Thailand.

 

You say demand a refund so therefore you have been paying tax in Thailand. Tax on what?

 

Anyways I will take the advice of the lady in the Revenue office who refused to give me a TIN as I am not working in Thailand.

Assessable income that is remitted to Thailand from overseas, is still income. 

 

In some previous years I have paid tax on income I have remitted to Thailand, as well as income derived from within Thailand.

 

Income is not just defined as wages or salary, look at Categories 1 thru 8 of income types, in the Revenue Code.

Edited 1 hour ago by chiang mai

[JimGant]

12 hours ago, chiang mai said:

ALL earn more than the tax threshold, by virtue of the amounts required for their visa's, ergo, I would expect the percentage of expats who file returns to be much higher, especially under the new rules. 

But we're not yet considering the new rules for this drill -- we're talking history. And historically every farang was probably aware about the "last year's money" concept of no Thai taxation. So, they were probably smart enough not to have any direct deposits of foreign payments, unless it was exempt from Thai taxation via DTA. Otherwise, remittances that could be taxable were filtered through a financial institution -- preferably one that had been open the previous tax year, and fully funded. But if not -- just pretend it had been, knowing TRD would assume, unless you're retarded, that you had used the "last year's money" concept. And thus wouldn't call you in for a chat.

 

So, yeah, it is reasonable to assume very few expats have ever filed a Thai tax return.

 

By the way, all those farangs you saw at TRD when you filed your taxes -- did they look like they worked in Thailand? Or did they look retarded? Just curious.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

But we're not yet considering the new rules for this drill -- we're talking history. And historically every farang was probably aware about the "last year's money" concept of no Thai taxation. So, they were probably smart enough not to have any direct deposits of foreign payments, unless it was exempt from Thai taxation via DTA. Otherwise, remittances that could be taxable were filtered through a financial institution -- preferably one that had been open the previous tax year, and fully funded. But if not -- just pretend it had been, knowing TRD would assume, unless you're retarded, that you had used the "last year's money" concept. And thus wouldn't call you in for a chat.

 

So, yeah, it is reasonable to assume very few expats have ever filed a Thai tax return.

 

By the way, all those farangs you saw at TRD when you filed your taxes -- did they look like they worked in Thailand? Or did they look retarded? Just curious.

You don't quit with the insults, do you, is it completely beyond your capabilities to enter into discourse in a civil manner!

[JimGant]

Just now, chiang mai said:

You don't quit with the insults, do you, is it completely beyond your capabilities to enter into discourse in a civil manner!

I thought it was a fair question, considering most normal expats don't file Thai tax returns. Over.