Something smelling musky -- the age of undemocratic in your face oligarchy in the USA.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

15 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Actually, my opinion is that it is.  It was a landslide.   Your opinion may not be the same but that does not make you right.  

Correct. But by your own yardstick, "your opinion may not be the same but that does not make you right."

I did not post that I was right, I posted my opinion as opposed to his dogmatic assertion.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

I know you're excited but if an opinion needs "interpretation" and "context", if it needs any sort of explanation, it's simply a win.

What? 

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I did not post that I was right, I posted my opinion as opposed to his dogmatic assertion.

 

One man's opinion is another man's dogmatic assertion.

 

Glad you worked that out by yourself.

Edited 1 hour ago by NanLaew

[pattayasan]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, you made it up, and now you're lying about what my views are. 

 

You guys lost because everyone now knows the left lies. Please keep it up, at least until after the midterms. 

 

Lying about your views? Where did you get that? I gave a view of what I think will happen to the US vis a vis Russia and you asked me a question about Biden. I responded and asked you if you had an alternative big picture view so you tell me I'm misrepresenting you. Are yuou one of Trump's lawyers?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

Lying about your views? Where did you get that? I gave a view of what I think will happen to the US vis a vis Russia and you asked me a question about Biden. I responded and asked you if you had an alternative big picture view so you tell me I'm misrepresenting you. Are yuou one of Trump's lawyers?

I got that directly from you, when you were lying about my views and said: "While many, yourself included appear to view this conflict as..."

 

So, you were lying then and you doubling down and lying again, typical. 

 

Again, you guys lost because everyone now knows the left lies. Please keep it up, at least until after the midterms. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Wow, and there was me thinking that the conservative's rabbit holes were mighty deep.

I'll put this another way.

I think probably two years isn't enough time for Trump to Putin Orbanize elections. But I'm sure he wants to and will be working on it. Obvious from his previous known actions.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'll put this another way.

I think probably two years isn't enough time for Trump to Putin Orbanize elections. But I'm sure he wants to and will be working on it. Obvious from his previous known actions.

How is it obvious from his previous known actions? 

 

 

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'll put this another way.

I think probably two years isn't enough time for Trump to Putin Orbanize elections. But I'm sure he wants to and will be working on it. Obvious from his previous known actions.

 

Too many checks and balances to get in the way.

 

I want to win the lottery (and I am workimg on it) but that doesn't mean that I will.

 

Anyway, at  the risk of diluting this 3-alarm, Trump fire thread, here's a look at how a couple of the world's other most treasured democracies are finding that not keeping to their electoral promises and policies is coming back to bite them.

 

"If the Labor parties in the UK and Australia, and the Democratic Party in the US, are to act as effective stabilizing forces in the future – as they have done for the past century – they must discard the elite ideologies that they are currently wedded to and become, to use Kim Carr’s phrase, “bold reformist parties.”..."

 

https://www.rt.com/news/607472-western-working-class-votes-trump/

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Too many checks and balances to get in the way.

 

I want to win the lottery (and I am workimg on it) but that doesn't mean that I will.

 

Anyway, at  the risk of diluting this 3-alarm, Trump fire thread, here's a look at how a couple of the world's other most treasured democracies are finding that not keeping to their electoral promises and policies is coming back to bite them.

 

"If the Labor parties in the UK and Australia, and the Democratic Party in the US, are to act as effective stabilizing forces in the future – as they have done for the past century – they must discard the elite ideologies that they are currently wedded to and become, to use Kim Carr’s phrase, “bold reformist parties.”..."

 

https://www.rt.com/news/607472-western-working-class-votes-trump/

I think you're very naive.

As I said probably OK for the midterms but if maga still fully rules 2028 at significant risk.

Edited 1 hour ago by Jingthing

[pattayasan]

20 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I got that directly from you, when you were lying about my views and said: "While many, yourself included appear to view this conflict as..."

 

So, you were lying then and you doubling down and lying again, typical. 

 

Again, you guys lost because everyone now knows the left lies. Please keep it up, at least until after the midterms. 

 

 

 

So what do you think Ukraine should do other than just cede the territory Russia has now?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

So what do you think Ukraine should do other than just cede the territory Russia has now?

You claimed "We know that European countries will keep supplying Ukraine long after the US stops. They can't win but they won't immediately give up. This will create enormous tensions between Europe and the US which will be forced to choose between Europe and Ukraine or Russia and Trump. I think it won't be long before a decison  to stick with Europe is made and the consequences will follow."

 

Explain know that, and I'll explain what I think. 

[pattayasan]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

You claimed "We know that European countries will keep supplying Ukraine long after the US stops. They can't win but they won't immediately give up. This will create enormous tensions between Europe and the US which will be forced to choose between Europe and Ukraine or Russia and Trump. I think it won't be long before a decison  to stick with Europe is made and the consequences will follow."

 

Explain know that, and I'll explain what I think. 

 

You accuse me of lying but won't say what your position is. I stand by my assertion that you believe this is just a matter of some territory to assuage Russia.

[frank83628]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'll put this another way.

I think probably two years isn't enough time for Trump to Putin Orbanize elections. But I'm sure he wants to and will be working on it. Obvious from his previous known actions.

which actions were these?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, pattayasan said:

 

You accuse me of lying but won't say what your position is. I stand by my assertion that you believe this is just a matter of some territory to assuage Russia.

And I stand by my position that you are a liar and add to that a phony that has refused to support your false claim repeatedly. 

[pattayasan]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

And I stand by my position that you are a liar and add to that a phony that has refused to support your false claim repeatedly. 

 

How can I be a liar? I say it appears like you think it's just a matter of territory and accuse me of being a liar. It is to laugh. You won't articulate a position but it very, very obvious what it is.

[metisdead]

Posts using derogatory and toxic nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be removed. If you don’t want your post to be removed, spell people’s names correctly, this applies to both sides of the political debate.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, pattayasan said:

 

How can I be a liar? I say it appears like you think it's just a matter of territory and accuse me of being a liar. It is to laugh. You won't articulate a position but it very, very obvious what it is.

Please provide something I have posted that would lead one to believe that I "...think it's just a matter of territory..." . 

 

Do that, and I will apologize. Until then, I stand by my position that you are a liar and add to that a phony that has refused to support your false claim repeatedly. 

[pattayasan]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Please provide something I have posted that would lead one to believe that I "...think it's just a matter of territory..." . 

 

Do that, and I will apologize. Until then, I stand by my position that you are a liar and add to that a phony that has refused to support your false claim repeatedly. 

 

Just say what your position is so you have some grounds for calling me a liar.

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

which actions were these?

All American citizens should know that by now. Based on this one clueless question, it's time to disengage as this is going to be a long haul for decent Americans who will try to prevent the U.S. becoming Hungary or worse, I won't waste my time on bald faced disingenuousness.

Cheers.

 

To add, NO this doesn't mean that I only wish to talk to people who agree with me. I'm open to sincere disagreements made in good faith which leave at least a bit of space to actually have a reason based conversation.  I well understand in these hyper polarized times, that isn't as common as it should be.

Edited 23 minutes ago by Jingthing

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

Just say what your position is so you have some grounds for calling me a liar.

Why do you keep changing the subject? I don't really care that you are a liar. 

 

You claimed "We know that European countries will keep supplying Ukraine long after the US stops. They can't win but they won't immediately give up. This will create enormous tensions between Europe and the US which will be forced to choose between Europe and Ukraine or Russia and Trump. I think it won't be long before a decison  to stick with Europe is made and the consequences will follow."

 

Explain know that, and I'll explain what I think. 

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Jingthing said:

All American citizens should know that by now. Based on this one clueless question, it's time to disengage as this is going to be a long haul for decent Americans who will try to prevent the U.S. becoming Hungary or worse, I won't waste my time on bald faced disingenuousness.

Cheers.

So, you don't know. Typical 

[pattayasan]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why do you keep changing the subject? I don't really care that you are a liar. 

 

You claimed "We know that European countries will keep supplying Ukraine long after the US stops. They can't win but they won't immediately give up. This will create enormous tensions between Europe and the US which will be forced to choose between Europe and Ukraine or Russia and Trump. I think it won't be long before a decison  to stick with Europe is made and the consequences will follow."

 

Explain know that, and I'll explain what I think. 

 

I believe that is the likely outcome. Either Russia wins or Ukraine wins. Russia won't stop at the current front lines anyway. The appeasers to Putin seems to have only one argument. Ukraine can't win so cede the land Ukraine has in exchange for peace. The only other possible position is to believe Ukraine should surrender their whole country to Russia. The Russian appeasers will not admit that they believe that so they try to convince us that Putin will call it draw and stop at the status quo which I believe is highly unlikely. I have never heard anybody articulate a different position that involves stopping the war. I don't believe you have one either.

 

And to your precise question, it is my opinion and I think my analysis lines up with a lot that I have read. I don't have to explain why I think what I think. I am not stating a historical fact, I am forecasting the future.

Edited 17 minutes ago by pattayasan

[Jingthing]

As long as we're talking the war, in my opinion a very important motivation of Trump is to win the Nobel Peace Prize which he's consumed by jealously about Obama getting that (albeit definitely undeserved).

In my view, I would be happy to see Trump win that prize IF he's able to negotiate a settlement agreed by both parties whereby Ukraine actually gets REAL security guarantees. Otherwise, it will be BS as it will just give Russia a pause until they can rebuild their military for the next phase, which likely would be years later, but in no way can be called a PEACE deal.

I seriously doubt he can pull off such a real peace deal, and I also doubt that's even his goal.

But if it's a BS deal, he certainly shouldn't get the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

 

 

Edited 14 minutes ago by Jingthing

[baansgr]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

All American citizens should know that by now. Based on this one clueless question, it's time to disengage as this is going to be a long haul for decent Americans who will try to prevent the U.S. becoming Hungary or worse, I won't waste my time on bald faced disingenuousness.

Cheers.

 

To add, NO this doesn't mean that I only wish to talk to people who agree with me. I'm open to sincere disagreements made in good faith which leave at least a bit of space to actually have a reason based conversation.  I well understand in these hyper polarized times, that isn't as common as it should be.

Victim playing already... hypocrite👍😁

[Jingthing]

16 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

We do not have a parliamentary system.  Get over it.

I never said the U.S. did.

I was merely pointing out a quirk in the U.S. system where a quite modest majority can potentially give total power.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, seajae said:

jing thing and his dem fan club have gotten their knickers in a knot and are having a huge dummy spit because the people elected trump and ignored all the BS coming from ther left. They knew the truth & the crap biden has caused would destroy the dems and are now crying because the greater majority of the US apart fom the rusted on dems  saw through what the dems were doing to the country.

Brit slang so apt here.

I never cried about this.

I know a large percentage of maga voters will live to regret their choice to bring the USA to autocracy led by a criminally corrupt demagogue who only cares about himself and his billionaire buddys.

It will take time. But it will happen.