Something smelling musky -- the age of undemocratic in your face oligarchy in the USA.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

I know you're excited but if an opinion needs "interpretation" and "context", if it needs any sort of explanation, it's simply a win.

What? 

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I did not post that I was right, I posted my opinion as opposed to his dogmatic assertion.

 

One man's opinion is another man's dogmatic assertion.

 

Glad you worked that out by yourself.

Edited November 17 by NanLaew

[pattayasan]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, you made it up, and now you're lying about what my views are. 

 

You guys lost because everyone now knows the left lies. Please keep it up, at least until after the midterms. 

 

Lying about your views? Where did you get that? I gave a view of what I think will happen to the US vis a vis Russia and you asked me a question about Biden. I responded and asked you if you had an alternative big picture view so you tell me I'm misrepresenting you. Are yuou one of Trump's lawyers?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

Lying about your views? Where did you get that? I gave a view of what I think will happen to the US vis a vis Russia and you asked me a question about Biden. I responded and asked you if you had an alternative big picture view so you tell me I'm misrepresenting you. Are yuou one of Trump's lawyers?

I got that directly from you, when you were lying about my views and said: "While many, yourself included appear to view this conflict as..."

 

So, you were lying then and you doubling down and lying again, typical. 

 

Again, you guys lost because everyone now knows the left lies. Please keep it up, at least until after the midterms. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Wow, and there was me thinking that the conservative's rabbit holes were mighty deep.

I'll put this another way.

I think probably two years isn't enough time for Trump to Putin Orbanize elections. But I'm sure he wants to and will be working on it. Obvious from his previous known actions.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'll put this another way.

I think probably two years isn't enough time for Trump to Putin Orbanize elections. But I'm sure he wants to and will be working on it. Obvious from his previous known actions.

How is it obvious from his previous known actions? 

 

 

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'll put this another way.

I think probably two years isn't enough time for Trump to Putin Orbanize elections. But I'm sure he wants to and will be working on it. Obvious from his previous known actions.

 

Too many checks and balances to get in the way.

 

I want to win the lottery (and I am workimg on it) but that doesn't mean that I will.

 

Anyway, at  the risk of diluting this 3-alarm, Trump fire thread, here's a look at how a couple of the world's other most treasured democracies are finding that not keeping to their electoral promises and policies is coming back to bite them.

 

"If the Labor parties in the UK and Australia, and the Democratic Party in the US, are to act as effective stabilizing forces in the future – as they have done for the past century – they must discard the elite ideologies that they are currently wedded to and become, to use Kim Carr’s phrase, “bold reformist parties.”..."

 

https://www.rt.com/news/607472-western-working-class-votes-trump/

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Too many checks and balances to get in the way.

 

I want to win the lottery (and I am workimg on it) but that doesn't mean that I will.

 

Anyway, at  the risk of diluting this 3-alarm, Trump fire thread, here's a look at how a couple of the world's other most treasured democracies are finding that not keeping to their electoral promises and policies is coming back to bite them.

 

"If the Labor parties in the UK and Australia, and the Democratic Party in the US, are to act as effective stabilizing forces in the future – as they have done for the past century – they must discard the elite ideologies that they are currently wedded to and become, to use Kim Carr’s phrase, “bold reformist parties.”..."

 

https://www.rt.com/news/607472-western-working-class-votes-trump/

I think you're very naive.

As I said probably OK for the midterms but if maga still fully rules 2028 at significant risk.

Edited November 17 by Jingthing

[pattayasan]

20 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I got that directly from you, when you were lying about my views and said: "While many, yourself included appear to view this conflict as..."

 

So, you were lying then and you doubling down and lying again, typical. 

 

Again, you guys lost because everyone now knows the left lies. Please keep it up, at least until after the midterms. 

 

 

 

So what do you think Ukraine should do other than just cede the territory Russia has now?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

So what do you think Ukraine should do other than just cede the territory Russia has now?

You claimed "We know that European countries will keep supplying Ukraine long after the US stops. They can't win but they won't immediately give up. This will create enormous tensions between Europe and the US which will be forced to choose between Europe and Ukraine or Russia and Trump. I think it won't be long before a decison  to stick with Europe is made and the consequences will follow."

 

Explain know that, and I'll explain what I think. 

[pattayasan]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

You claimed "We know that European countries will keep supplying Ukraine long after the US stops. They can't win but they won't immediately give up. This will create enormous tensions between Europe and the US which will be forced to choose between Europe and Ukraine or Russia and Trump. I think it won't be long before a decison  to stick with Europe is made and the consequences will follow."

 

Explain know that, and I'll explain what I think. 

 

You accuse me of lying but won't say what your position is. I stand by my assertion that you believe this is just a matter of some territory to assuage Russia.

[frank83628]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'll put this another way.

I think probably two years isn't enough time for Trump to Putin Orbanize elections. But I'm sure he wants to and will be working on it. Obvious from his previous known actions.

which actions were these?

[metisdead]

Posts using derogatory and toxic nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be removed. If you don’t want your post to be removed, spell people’s names correctly, this applies to both sides of the political debate.

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

which actions were these?

All American citizens should know that by now. Based on this one clueless question, it's time to disengage as this is going to be a long haul for decent Americans who will try to prevent the U.S. becoming Hungary or worse, I won't waste my time on bald faced disingenuousness.

Cheers.

 

To add, NO this doesn't mean that I only wish to talk to people who agree with me. I'm open to sincere disagreements made in good faith which leave at least a bit of space to actually have a reason based conversation.  I well understand in these hyper polarized times, that isn't as common as it should be.

Edited November 17 by Jingthing

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Jingthing said:

All American citizens should know that by now. Based on this one clueless question, it's time to disengage as this is going to be a long haul for decent Americans who will try to prevent the U.S. becoming Hungary or worse, I won't waste my time on bald faced disingenuousness.

Cheers.

So, you don't know. Typical 

[pattayasan]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why do you keep changing the subject? I don't really care that you are a liar. 

 

You claimed "We know that European countries will keep supplying Ukraine long after the US stops. They can't win but they won't immediately give up. This will create enormous tensions between Europe and the US which will be forced to choose between Europe and Ukraine or Russia and Trump. I think it won't be long before a decison  to stick with Europe is made and the consequences will follow."

 

Explain know that, and I'll explain what I think. 

 

I believe that is the likely outcome. Either Russia wins or Ukraine wins. Russia won't stop at the current front lines anyway. The appeasers to Putin seems to have only one argument. Ukraine can't win so cede the land Ukraine has in exchange for peace. The only other possible position is to believe Ukraine should surrender their whole country to Russia. The Russian appeasers will not admit that they believe that so they try to convince us that Putin will call it draw and stop at the status quo which I believe is highly unlikely. I have never heard anybody articulate a different position that involves stopping the war. I don't believe you have one either.

 

And to your precise question, it is my opinion and I think my analysis lines up with a lot that I have read. I don't have to explain why I think what I think. I am not stating a historical fact, I am forecasting the future.

Edited November 17 by pattayasan

[Jingthing]

As long as we're talking the war, in my opinion a very important motivation of Trump is to win the Nobel Peace Prize which he's consumed by jealously about Obama getting that (albeit definitely undeserved).

In my view, I would be happy to see Trump win that prize IF he's able to negotiate a settlement agreed by both parties whereby Ukraine actually gets REAL security guarantees. Otherwise, it will be BS as it will just give Russia a pause until they can rebuild their military for the next phase, which likely would be years later, but in no way can be called a PEACE deal.

I seriously doubt he can pull off such a real peace deal, and I also doubt that's even his goal.

But if it's a BS deal, he certainly shouldn't get the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

 

 

Edited November 17 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

16 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

We do not have a parliamentary system.  Get over it.

I never said the U.S. did.

I was merely pointing out a quirk in the U.S. system where a quite modest majority can potentially give total power.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, seajae said:

jing thing and his dem fan club have gotten their knickers in a knot and are having a huge dummy spit because the people elected trump and ignored all the BS coming from ther left. They knew the truth & the crap biden has caused would destroy the dems and are now crying because the greater majority of the US apart fom the rusted on dems  saw through what the dems were doing to the country.

Brit slang so apt here.

I never cried about this.

I know a large percentage of maga voters will live to regret their choice to bring the USA to autocracy led by a criminally corrupt demagogue who only cares about himself and his billionaire buddys.

It will take time. But it will happen.

[Walker88]

Admittedly the Dems are really bad at messaging, while the Repubs are quite good at blowing up statements made by the uber far left into alleged Dem policy. Repubs are also quite skilled at hypocrisy.

 

Case in point.....

 

The Elon and Vivek Show known as DOGE is being given the mandate to close down whatever agencies and departments they think should go. Among others such as the Dept of Education, the ATF, the IRS (good luck with the National Deficit), one on the chopping block is the FBI. (Remember the outrage over one or two fringe Dems saying something about defunding the police?). Elon and his sidekick are not just talking about defunding the FBI (per the request of the POTUS-elect, who thinks he had every right to steal TS, SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD documents and keep them at his golf club/wedding planning facility, where anyone willing to pony up $200K---such as Chinese MSS operatives---can join), but shutting it down altogether. Efrem Zimbalist, Jr would be outraged!

 

Now the FBI does an important and valuable job, for those of you who do not know. Get rid of that agency, and we all better hope the typical donut-munching cop in Keokuk, Iowa is up to speed on al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, La Cosa Nostra and Russian Mafia, serial killers, drug lords, forieng intel agents from everywhere from Iran to North Korea to Israel to Russia operating in the US, importers of fake medicines, movement of radioactive material such as U-235 and plutonium, various forms of trans-national crime, human trafficking, kiddieporn, and assorted other threats and security risks that are rather unlikely to be part of the knowledge and skillset beat cops bring to the table.

 

Couple this with a total shutdown of liaison intelligence cooperation because nobody in Five Eyes, the BND, DGSE, NPA or NISSK, trusts the POTUS-elect, much less Tulsi Gabbard, and the US instantly becomes a much less secure nation. I guess the G in MAGA means when Al Capone ran free, and Jeffrey Dahmer ate whatever whomever he wanted. We also might as well just make copies of all secret US weapons system, the NATO Order of Battle, the capabilities of the nuclear triad, etc. and send them to Putin and Xi, because absent the FBI, nobody is going to stop domestic espionage. Mentally disturbed kids can post their manifestos and plans for mass school shootings online, too, since nobody will be watching (and with no Bureau or ATF), even a ten year old will be able to buy an AR-15 with dozens of mags and oodles of 5.56 NATO rounds.

 

Nice work, Elon and Vivek!

[Walker88]

19 hours ago, TedG said:

Take your loss like a man and stop crying about it. 

You mean the way 45 did after Biden beat him in 2020? Besides being illegal, that sure looked like girlyman behavior to me.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I never said the U.S. did.

I was merely pointing out a quirk in the U.S. system where a quite modest majority can potentially give total power.

You fail to mention one downside of a parliamentary system where a failure to reach a consensus can mean chaos like what Germany is experiencing.  Both systems have their good and bad points.

[mogandave]

1 hour ago, pattayasan said:

 

I believe that is the likely outcome. Either Russia wins or Ukraine wins. Russia won't stop at the current front lines anyway. The appeasers to Putin seems to have only one argument. Ukraine can't win so cede the land Ukraine has in exchange for peace. The only other possible position is to believe Ukraine should surrender their whole country to Russia. The Russian appeasers will not admit that they believe that so they try to convince us that Putin will call it draw and stop at the status quo which I believe is highly unlikely. I have never heard anybody articulate a different position that involves stopping the war. I don't believe you have one either.

 

And to your precise question, it is my opinion and I think my analysis lines up with a lot that I have read. I don't have to explain why I think what I think. I am not stating a historical fact, I am forecasting the future.

So when you said “we know”, you were lying, and what you should have said was “I believe” Thanks for finally coming clean. 

 

Now was that so difficult? 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

You fail to mention one downside of a parliamentary system where a failure to reach a consensus can mean chaos like what Germany is experiencing.  Both systems have their good and bad points.

Agreed.

But it sure doesn't feel democratic to be an opponent of Trumpist autocracy that got over 48 percent of the vote almost half and the majority for the house and to control absolutely NOTHING in the federal government. That's a gaping hole of a flaw especially that we now will soon have a basically insane felonous chief executive that seeks to rule as a kind of Dictator King.

Whether American democracy survives this remains to be seen. 

Edited November 17 by Jingthing

[Captain Flack]

Again a troll post with an unsubstantiated allegation has been removed.

 

@Yellowtail this is the second time today, your posts have been removed for personal attacks on others, if you continue it is not just the posts that will be removed, as you will also get a time out.

[mogandave]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

As long as we're talking the war, in my opinion a very important motivation of Trump is to win the Nobel Peace Prize which he's consumed by jealously about Obama getting that (albeit definitely undeserved).

In my view, I would be happy to see Trump win that prize IF he's able to negotiate a settlement agreed by both parties whereby Ukraine actually gets REAL security guarantees. Otherwise, it will be BS as it will just give Russia a pause until they can rebuild their military for the next phase, which likely would be years later, but in no way can be called a PEACE deal.

I seriously doubt he can pull off such a real peace deal, and I also doubt that's even his goal.

But if it's a BS deal, he certainly shouldn't get the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

 

 

If Trump settled Ukraine back to 2002 borders with both side happy,

 

And we saw a peaceful two-state solution, with Iran opening trade with Israel,

 

And antisemitism around the world, 

 

He would not receive the Nobel Peace Prize, and you would still be calling him a maga fascist. 

 

 

[Hawaiian]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Agreed.

But it sure doesn't feel democratic to be an opponent of Trumpist autocracy that got over 48 percent of the vote almost half and the majority for the house and to control absolutely NOTHING in the federal government. That's a gaping hole of a flaw especially that we now have an chief executive that seeks to rule as a kind of Dictator King.

What Trump wants does not mean Trump gets.  As you said, "It will take time," but no one, including you, knows what will happen.

[mogandave]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I never said the U.S. did.

I was merely pointing out a quirk in the U.S. system where a quite modest majority can potentially give total power

 

.

Total power is fear mongering hyperbole 

[Hawaiian]

Just now, mogandave said:

Total power is fear mongering hyperbole 

Isn't this what often happens when someone supports the losing side?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

What Trump wants does not mean Trump gets.  As you said, "It will take time," but no one, including you, knows what will happen.

What's stopping him?

The supreme court? Nope. They corruptly gave him immunity for anything done in office, including murdering opponents, including things clearly unconstitutional.

Non maga federal judges? For a while until the cases get bumped to Trump's supreme court.

Democratic governors? They can help but only at the state level.

Senators who aren't maga? History shows sooner or later they always cave to the bully Trump. Word is they are actually afraid of violence on their family from maga types.

Does this sound like America to you?

It happened.