Methanol Cocktails Leave Two Australian Women Critically ill in Thailand

[madone]

13 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Is that possible? Fermentation produces Ethanol only, otherwise you wouldn't be able to drink wine or beer.

https://www.barisonindustry.com/en/news/methanol-what-it-is-and-how-it-is-handled-in-distillation-processes#:~:text=Methanol is a natural product,preparation of jams (E440).

Methanol is present as a part of fermentation, however distillation concentrates it. 

beer and wine contain methanol, but in safe concentrations.

Edited Tuesday at 04:10 AM by madone

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, madone said:

 

good to see you focus on the important questions. 

No, I focus on the important facts, and their ex-schools have nothing to do with what happened.

[Pattaya57]

8 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

No, I focus on the important facts, and their ex-schools have nothing to do with what happened.

Geez, it's to give the reader an idea of who the victims are to add more feeling/sympathy for them. In this case two 19 year old girls just out of high school are now on life support after a Laos bar was giving out free 'vodka' shots

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:28 AM by Pattaya57

[KannikaP]

28 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Geez, it's to give the reader an idea of who the victims are to add more feeling/sympathy for them. In this case two 19 year old girls just out of high school are now on life support after a Laos bar was giving out free 'vodka' shots

 

Agree, but we don't really need to know WHICH high schools they were out of, or even which city, except that they were Australian, although, does that really matter either, English, French, American, etc etc. in order to give sympathy and abhorrence at what happened to them.

A bit off topic, but in many news reports, they say that the names of the victims have been changed to 'protect their identity'.

But of course, only people who actually know them will know who they are, and people who do not know them will not know their real names anyway. 

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, madone said:

 

not what you said tho was it?

but thanks for the advice there captain obvious. 

Your welcome, let me know if I can help you with anything else.

[Pattaya57]

25 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Agree, but we don't really need to know WHICH high schools they were out of, or even which city, except that they were Australian, although, does that really matter either, English, French, American, etc etc. in order to give sympathy and abhorrence at what happened to them.

Of course the nationality matters in a story like this. I read every story I could find on these two because they were fellow Aussies.

 

Sadly I also read 2 other tourists apparently died from same incident

 

Either Danish?

It is understood at least two Danish women in their 20s have died, and at least 10 have fallen ill after drinking the tainted alcohol.

 

Or Swedish?

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:30 AM by Pattaya57

[VR333]

3 hours ago, Keeps said:

When you see these roadside cocktail stalls knocking out a cocktail with maybe 3 or 4 shots of spirits for 60-80 baht do you really think the spirits are going to be the 'real deal'?

I wouldn't expect to get poisoned drinking alcohol from some roadside stall, even in Laos. Watered down drinks, cheap local spirits substituted for brand names etc, sure. It happens in Thailand, probably even in some legit bars. Whenever I've heard of people dying from drinking dodgy alcohol, it's usually been a wedding celebration in some poor village in rural India. Student backpackers aren't going to be aware of this type of danger; I know I wasn't until I read this news. 

[VR333]

58 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Of course the nationality matters in a story like this. I read every story I could find on these two because they were fellow Aussies.

Agreed. This sad story is the lead item on every Victorian TV news broadcast tonight. The schools the girls went to are good schools in an affluent Melbourne bayside area, so it's suggesting they were probably responsible girls. The Federal Minister for Social Services commenting on this isn't something you see often. Channel Nine News reported the girls as being in a "grave condition." I hope they're wrong.

[ChaiyaTH]

Once got this crap in a bucket on phi phi islands, while I can drink a lot and that was my first few sips. Results were not pretty, I basically gave the entire bungalow a new floor layer of puke. Didn't even know what to say to the cleaners except by holding 500 baht, but they looked at me as if it was a every day thing. As if they know exactly what the limit is to not hospitalize you.

[BangkokReady]

5 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Why do we need to be told which schools they left last year?

 

To fool you into thinking that you've read an interesting and informative article.

[BangkokReady]

19 hours ago, AnnaBanana said:

Innocents abroad.

It seldom ends well when they leave their group tours.

The wrong kind of people often see them coming.

 

So you think they were targeted and given dodgy booze specifically because they were young innocent tourists?  And wiser people would have known it was dodgy?

[madone]

4 hours ago, KannikaP said:

No, I focus on the important facts, and their ex-schools have nothing to do with what happened.

 

Explain to me again why local Australian news outlets would not provide that meaningful context for their local readership.

[Pattaya57]

It's two young ladies from Denmark that died from same drinking 😞

 

"A statement from the Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs said: "The Ministry of Foreign Affairs can confirm that two Danish citizens have passed away in Laos."

Edited Tuesday at 04:04 PM by Pattaya57

[KannikaP]

14 hours ago, madone said:

 

Explain to me again why local Australian news outlets would not provide that meaningful context for their local readership.

OK, local Aus News, but not in a lead story on AN.

[stoutfella]

On 11/19/2024 at 10:56 AM, mokwit said:

Is that possible? Fermentation produces Ethanol only, otherwise you wouldn't be able to drink wine or beer.

I think you'll find many knowledgeable people disagreeing with and correcting that statement.

[Briggsy]

For those unfamiliar, Vang Vieng is a lot more backpacker-oriented than other destinations in Laos (and Thailand). Think something like Pai. There is a lot of competition to get the custom into specific bars and restaurants. This "free vodka shot" idea seems to have been very ill-conceived.

 

It would be interesting to hear from anyone on the ground in Vang Vieng what the response from the government has been.

[Pattaya57]

A third person has been reported as dying from this incident. This one a man from US

 

The US State Department on Thursday confirmed the death of one of its citizens in Vang Vieng, a tourist town where at least 10 people became seriously ill last week from drinking spirits believed to be laced with methanol

[SAFETY FIRST]

Aussie Girl Dies 

 

https://7news.com.au/news/melbourne-teenager-bianca-jones-dies-after-falling-ill-from-methanol-cocktail-poisoning-c-16827447?utm_campaign=7news&utm_content=7NEWS+Sydney&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawGriyVleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHdrUkqFNHY51hQ6HcE-5DGlcLbyUewlKNSPvzcPzcsLG82Whp4aGG4AdVQ_aem_nY1VlP5r57NVfvm9l9rF6A

 

Edited Thursday at 03:44 AM by SAFETY FIRST

[Rolo89]

4 dead and 5 still on life support, all over a free shot.

 

I can see this really hitting the tourism in SEA for years to come. Europeans and Aussies becoming aware of just how dangerous it can be over here and how appalling standards are. 

[Rolo89]

5 now dead. A Brit has died, 28 year old lawyer.

[Pattaya57]

This is just so sad about how easy it was for someone to kill so many from different backgrounds (2 Danish ladies in 20's, a 56 year old American man, 19 year old Aussie girl and 28 year old Brit woman)

 

It hits hard as this could have happened to anybody out and about in a party town. It's just shots poured by a bartender 😞

 

Edited Thursday at 11:32 PM by Pattaya57

[morrobay]

Even just normal fermentation of grape wine produces methanol but in such small quantity it is harmless. I guess improper distillation could concentrate methanol to dangerous levels. Well whether it was that or added - they do that I understand. It is terrible stuff. It shuts down the ATP producing  Krebs Cycle at the last  cytochrome series stage. Same as cyanide 

 

[Jim Blue]

When I lived in a Middle East country where alcohol was a nono the Thais were the master distillers .Seems their neighbours have some catching up to do .Very sad.

[KrishnaCameb4Buddha]

So this raises the question what do you do if you suspect methanol poisoning if you are not near a hospital. The answer is: get a high-proof ethanol (vodka, etc) and immediately start drinking it to get ‘drunk’. Meanwhile, you can be making your way to a hospital to get complete management. The idea is to stay ‘drunk’ for several days if you are not near a hospital. Otherwise, the hospital can manage the IV administration of ethanol to you so as to save your life. Hospitals have another antidote, fomepizole, in addition to IV ethanol, but it is very expensive and many hospitals don’t carry it.

 

The enzyme, ADH, that breaks down methanol into toxic metabolites can be ‘interrupted’ by ingesting ethanol. This is because ADH prefers ethanol and when the ethanol is there, the methanol is less likely to be broken down into its terrible metabolites. This is why some methanol poisonings are not fatal—because the drinkers were also drinking ethanol. They are the lucky ones. The ones drinking only methanol have a much graver prognosis.

 

If you cannot make it to a hospital soon it would be a good idea to call a poison control center, such as California Poison Control, open 24 hours, and they can aid you in how to properly stay drunk for whatever number of days they recommend. 1-800-222-1222

 

Following quote is from Goldfrank’s Manual Of Toxicologic Emergencies” 2007 Edition. Chapter on Toxic Alcohols pgs 804-808 and chapter on Ethanol 813-816.

 

“If there will be any delay in obtaining ethanol for intravenous use (for methanol poisoning), oral therapy with ethanol should be initiated immediately” (pg 816)

 

Also important is to replenish body fluids by making homemade Gatorade—Oral Rehydration Solution. In one liter of water put two TABLEspoons of sugar and one-half TEAspoon (1/2 tsp) of salt. Drink this frequently. When you get to a hospital they will give you IV Saline (salt water intravenously).

 

[VR333]

Sadly, Holly Bowles has now passed away 

 

https://7news.com.au/news/laos-methanol-poisoning-victim-holly-bowles-dies-in-thailand-hospital-a-day-after-best-friend-bianca-jones-c-16840415

[LivingNThailand]

On 11/19/2024 at 6:15 AM, hotchilli said:

Best to have a beer served in a bottle with the top on... remove it yourself and be safe.

That's what I said, stick with beer.

 

[kimamey]

28 minutes ago, VR333 said:

Sadly, Holly Bowles has now passed away 

 

https://7news.com.au/news/laos-methanol-poisoning-victim-holly-bowles-dies-in-thailand-hospital-a-day-after-best-friend-bianca-jones-c-16840415

This is from the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde7j9j76x0o

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, LivingNThailand said:

That's what I said, stick with beer.

 

Exactly, walking into a bar handing out free shots from god knows what by god knows who is asking for trouble..

[GammaGlobulin]

1 minute ago, hotchilli said:

Exactly, walking into a bar handing out free shots from god knows what by god knows who is asking for trouble..

 

Be that as it maybe be...

These young people really could not be expected to know that much about methanol poisoning.

 

If one has lived in the area for a long time, then one might likely have read periodic news reporting about methanol poisonings.

 

For sure, this is a terrible tragedy...if for no other reason than the fact that these young people went, in a split second, from a carefree life of hope and happiness, to complete and utter devastation.

 

One might also consider if it might be true that very-young people, such as these teens, should not be given some sort of formal education concerning hazards of travel abroad before being granted a passport.

 

 

[kuma]

On 11/19/2024 at 9:14 AM, Dcheech said:

Exactly

So many of these articles do not explain, or erroneously explain, what is going on. Bootlegging, distilling liquor which is then sold to tourists. A highly lucrative business. However if you do not know what you are doing, or don't care. Death happens.
 

Methanol is not added, it is a byproduct of distilling and must be discarded in the distilling process. That is what reputable distilleries do, and why there are government regulations. That is what bootleggers might not do because its just more liquid and more money so why not. And who cares if a person dies. 

Great facebook site - A drink to die from
Mainly concerned with Indonesia, but has information on the region.   

 

This was from 2012, still not 100% clear if it was spiked drinks or insecticide sprayed in the room....either one is really not good

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/quebec-sisters-who-died-mysteriously-at-thailand-resort-were-likely-intoxicated-by-pesticides-coroner-says