ICC Issues Arrest Warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant Over Alleged War Crimes

[placnx]

On 11/22/2024 at 3:34 PM, G_Money said:

ICC has no authority to arrest anyone.

But 124 countries have agreed to act on the ICC's warrants.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placnx said:

But 124 countries have agreed to act on the ICC's warrants.

nope, try again they are starting to question the warrants, so far France, Italy and Greece have said they are not and of course the US

[placnx]

On 11/22/2024 at 3:35 PM, Andycoops said:

The ICC and for that matter the UN are completely unfit for purpose in the 21C and should be wound up and replaced by a purely humanitarian organisation, free of corruption and political shenanigans.

The UN needs to go through a reorganisation akin to bankruptcy proceedings whereby the Security Council permanent members will see their power to block reduced to legitimate circumstances.

[G_Money]

27 minutes ago, placnx said:

But 124 countries have agreed to act on the ICC's warrants.

Good luck with that.

 

Seeing is believing 

[placnx]

On 11/22/2024 at 10:40 PM, Patong2021 said:

 

I note your reference to the term "genuinely" and draw your attention to past Israeli responses to similar actions. Israel has demonstrated that its judicial system does have a provision for punishing those accused of war crimes and has brought charges against IDF members who have violated the applicable code of conduct and has punished responsible parties. Human Rights  groups have been able to bring cases and to receive due process in the Israeli court system. 

 

The case is very politically tinged and rests on a complaint brought  by South Africa, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Comoros, and Djibouti.

A supplemental complaint was brought this year by Chile and Mexico. The first group is not known for its respect for human rights , let alone due process. The second due, are now lead by leftist political leaders, both of whom subscribe to the 1970's era liberation ideaology.

 

The cornerstone of the charges rests on allegations that the accused have intentionally starved and deprived Gazans. IMO it will be difficult to prove when the number of fatalities has been relatively stagnant for the past year, and when it can be shown that Israel has allowed aid convoys to enter Gaza. If one looks at the videos of people in Gaza as they detail their hardship, no one is emaciated or has the  appearance of being starved. There are lots of claims of "on the brink of starvation", or "Gaza is likely to experience an epidemic", yet no evidence of such a situation.  Yes, the people are experiencing hardship and it is obviously difficult living in Gaza. However, that can all change if the Gazans release the hostages and agree to stop attacking Israel. To be blunt, I would have done a lot worse than Israel if I was in its position.

 

You are mixing up the actions at the ICJ and the ICC. Anyway, your claim impugning South Africa regarding its action at the ICJ is just your non-factual. I watched South Africa's excellent factual presentation, and that, plus the intervention of around 50 countries supporting the South African position (including the less noteworthy countries that you mention) , served to convince the Court that the case was warranted, but we may have to wait years for the result.

 

Now on your claims regarding the ICC warrants to arrest Netanyahu & Gallant, numerous NGOs observed the aid that was delivered or blocked. Interestingly, after US prodding Israel allowed an average of 37 trucks per day into Gaza in October, not the 350 trucks demanded by the US.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-humanitarian-access-snapshot-7-10-october-13-november-2024-enar

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/aid-gaza-trucks-food-lowest-level-year-despite-us-ultimatum

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placnx said:

You are mixing up the actions at the ICJ and the ICC. Anyway, your claims to impugn South Africa regarding its action at the ICJ is just your non-factual. I watched South Africa's excellent factual presentation, and that, plus the intervention of around 50 countries supporting the South African position (including the less noteworthy countries that you mention) , served to convince the Court that the case was warranted.

 

Now on your claims regarding the ICC warrants to arrest Netanyahu & Gallant, numerous NGOs observed the aid that was delivered or blocked. Interestingly, after US prodding Israel allowed an average of 37 trucks per day into Gaza in October, not the 350 trucks demanded by the US.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-humanitarian-access-snapshot-7-10-october-13-november-2024-enar

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/aid-gaza-trucks-food-lowest-level-year-despite-us-ultimatum

South Africa attempts to delay ICJ genocide case filing deadline as it struggles to find evidence

Nine months after filing a lawsuit with the International Court of Justice (ICJ), the South African government is trying to postpone the deadline for submitting evidence to support its claim, according to a report from KAN News.

The deferral pertains to the main proceedings in the ICJ case in The Hague, where South Africa has accused Israel of violating the Genocide Convention.

South Africa has an obligation to submit its reasons for continuing the case and any evidence in its filing by Oct. 28. However, the country is reportedly trying to extend the deadline by several months due to a lack of sufficient evidence to prove its case.

https://allisrael.com/south-africa-attempts-to-delay-icj-genocide-case-filing-deadline-as-it-struggles-to-find-evidence

[Nick Carter icp]

35 minutes ago, placnx said:

 

Under legal definitions and examination of the circumstances, qualified observers have remarked on Israel's effective control of all Gaza's borders, plus sea access, and so some have likened Gaza to a prison. 

 

  Even Gazas border with Egypt ?

 

 

   How does Israel control the Gaza Egypt border ?

[placnx]

On 11/22/2024 at 11:09 PM, Patong2021 said:

 

It is a claim that  has been made from South Africans. The ANC is accused of having taken a donation from Iran in return for  bringing the charges.

The reason this claim is difficult to conclusively fact-check is because we don’t have access to the ANC’s balance sheets, so there’s no way of categorically refuting the idea that the party has just received a massive donation from Iran.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2024-01-25-iran-fund-south-africa-icj-israel-palestine-fact-check/

 

The ANC has been asked to open its books  by journalists and the ANC has refused.

 

Iranian groups (who are opposed to the current religious regime) have also made mention of Iran's complicity.

A group of 160 lawyers, in a letter to the US Secretary of State, the Department of Justice, and the leaders of the US Congress, requested an investigation into the alleged receipt of bribes by South African leaders from the Islamic Republic.

https://iranwire.com/en/news/129348-160-lawyers-write-to-us-leaders-alleging-iran-bribed-south-africa/

 

At the very least the allegation  merits investigation.

 

 

This is pretty irrelevant. If it were a case of the judges taking bribes, that would be a matter for investigation. South Africa has a long history supporting the Palestinians. The late archbishop Desmond Tutu reportedly siad that Israel's apartheid was worse than South Africa's.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placnx said:

This is pretty irrelevant. If it were a case of the judges taking bribes, that would be a matter for investigation. South Africa has a long history supporting the Palestinians. The late archbishop Desmond Tutu reportedly siad that Israel's apartheid was worse than South Africa's.

South Africa is also great friends with Hamas and Iran

 

Iran and Qatar behind South Africa’s World Court case against Israel, report claims
Report alleges foreign financial and political support in 'genocide' case against Israel; ruling ANC, near bankruptcy, reportedly received major donation from foreign states after filing claim in December

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/h1msjxlfje

[Nick Carter icp]

40 minutes ago, placnx said:

But 124 countries have agreed to act on the ICC's warrants.

 

   No they haven't . 

The 124 Countries are obliged to carry out the arrest request  , but its up to them whether they do or not .

   

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

This is pretty irrelevant. If it were a case of the judges taking bribes, that would be a matter for investigation. South Africa has a long history supporting the Palestinians. The late archbishop Desmond Tutu reportedly siad that Israel's apartheid was worse than South Africa's.

 

   Post Apartheid Black South Africa dislikes Israel because Israel supported White South Africa Apartheid era .

   That why South Africa  doesn't like Israel 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   No they haven't . 

The 124 Countries are obliged to carry out the arrest request  , but its up to them whether they do or not .

   

He's gone into fairy land making things up now

[placnx]

On 11/23/2024 at 2:29 AM, Evil Penevil said:

 

Yes, it certainly does.  There had never been an independent kingdom, nation or state called Palestine before the PLO declared the creation of the State of Palestine in 1988.  Arabs living in Mandatory Palestine had been offered a state under the 1947 U.N. partition plan, but the Arab League rejected the plan.

What Israel took over on  May 14, 1948, was the territory allotted to the Jewish state under the United Nation's partition plan for Mandatory Palestine, which at that time was under British control.   Before the U.K. received the Mandate for Palestine from the League of Nations, the Ottoman Empire had ruled the region we today call historical Palestine since 1516 CE.  Prior to the  Turks, the rulers had been the Mamluk Sultanate; Ayyubid Dynasty; European Crusaders; Fatimid Caliphate; Mongol Empire;  Abbasid Caliphate; Umayyad Caliphate;  Rashidun Caliphate; Byzantine Empire; Roman Empire; Seleucid Empire; Ptolemaic Kingdom; Achaemenid (Persian) Empire; Babylonian Empire and Assyrian Empire. You have to go back to Biblical times and the Iron Age to find centuries in which people who were actually born in historical Palestine ruled  the region.  That would be the Kingdoms of  Israel  and Judah.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  .  

"After Roman times the name [Palestine] had no official status until after World War I and the end of rule by the Ottoman Empire, when it was adopted for one of the regions mandated to Great Britain." https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

https://x.com/BryanLeibFL/status/1712594390445617178

 

Whoever was the ruler over the area called Palestine does not matter. The point is that the people of the area over millenia have developed their distinct culture, different than Syrian, Egyptian, Jordanian.

[placnx]

On 11/23/2024 at 12:32 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

5.5M killed in Congo. ICC: 🤐

500K killed in Syria. ICC: 🤐

500K killed in Sudan. ICC: 🤐

400K killed in Yemen. ICC: 🤐

300K killed in Iraq. ICC: 🤐

250K killed in Afghanistan. ICC: 🤐

40k killed in Gaza (half of whom are Hamas fighters).ICC: “GENOCIDE! Arrest Netanyahu.”🥸

When we consider proportionality, in terms of populations of the countries that you cite, Gaza is at the same level, if not greater.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

When we consider proportionality, in terms of populations of the countries that you cite, Gaza is at the same level, if not greater.

No its just evidence of Hamas using Gazan civilians as human shields.

[placnx]

On 11/23/2024 at 2:15 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Jews have been living there for millenniums (Thousands of years)

No, they were mostly living in the diaspora for millennia. Of course, the Palestinians may well have absorbed part of the Jewish population who preferred to convert to Chistianity or Islam and/or who intermarried.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, placnx said:

No, they were mostly living in the diaspora for millennia. Of course, the Palestinians may well have absorbed part of the Jewish population who preferred to convert to Chistianity or Islam and/or who intermarried.

 

   I didn't say "mostly" . I said that Jews have been living on the land of Israel for continuously  3500 years , (where  "Most" Jews lived is irrelevant ) and they have 

[G_Money]

On 11/23/2024 at 11:02 PM, stevenl said:

The disregard for international law from AN members is astounding.

What international law?

 

ICC has no authority or jurisdiction over anything.

[placnx]

On 11/24/2024 at 7:30 PM, loong said:

 

Israel is NOT an apartheid state. There is no racial segregation of Israeli citizens.

If you think that the barrier around Gaza is apartheid, that barrier is to keep the Gazans out of Israel. Before they erected the barrier, the Gazans would carry out terrorist attacks in Israel. I wonder why the Egyptians considered it necessary to build a wall on its border with Gaza!
Israel is not a terrorist state. Gaza has been launching missiles at Israeli civilian targets for years. Their actions on Oct 7th last year were just too much and they should have expected the retaliation from Israel. Hamas started this war and could have ended it long ago by surrendering and releasing the hostages. The civilian deaths are 100% the fault of Hamas!

Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have issued extensive reports on Israeli apartheid. Here is Amnesty's short version with a link to download the full report: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/

[placnx]

On 11/23/2024 at 11:28 PM, herfiehandbag said:

And the "highly respected international jurist" running this farce is a Lebanese Muslim - which of course means Hezbollah, effectively Iran.

You are confusing the Chief Judge of the ICJ, a Lebanese, with Karim Khan, the prosecutor of the ICC. He is British, born in Edinburgh.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

You are confusing the Chief Judge of the ICJ, a Lebanese, with Karim Khan, the prosecutor of the ICC. He is British, born in Edinburgh.

Yes the one who's under investigation.

[placnx]

48 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Even Gazas border with Egypt ?

 

 

   How does Israel control the Gaza Egypt border ?

There was an arrangement with Egypt for Israel to monitor the border remotely.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placnx said:

There was an arrangement with Egypt for Israel to monitor the border remotely.

Bit difficult when they found so many tunnels underneath for smuggling

[placnx]

41 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   No they haven't . 

The 124 Countries are obliged to carry out the arrest request  , but its up to them whether they do or not .

   

Reportedly, France made a deal to not act on the warrant if Israel let it participate with the US in monitoring the Lebanese ceasefire. Notwithstanding, the independence of the French judiciary could persuade Netanyahu not to take chances with visiting France.

[placnx]

42 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Post Apartheid Black South Africa dislikes Israel because Israel supported White South Africa Apartheid era .

   That why South Africa  doesn't like Israel 

Correct, and a reasonable motive for supprting the Palestinians!

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placnx said:

Reportedly, France made a deal to not act on the warrant if Israel let it participate with the US in monitoring the Lebanese ceasefire. Notwithstanding, the independence of the French judiciary could persuade Netanyahu not to take chances with visiting France.

That's a rumour, the only fact we know is that France is not going to act, along with other countries, your claims were wrong, you should try to admit your errors

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placnx said:

Correct, and a reasonable motive for supprting the Palestinians!

They support Hamas, do you also?

[placnx]

28 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No its just evidence of Hamas using Gazan civilians as human shields.

Just to enlighten readers who don't have time to read these numerous comments, you are implying that the Gazan deaths were small in relation to other conflicts, and I reminded the readers that because Gaza's population is a tenth or less than the countries with conflicts that you mentioned, the Gaza death rate is proportionally similar to the situation in those countries, if not worse.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, placnx said:

Just to enlighten readers who don't have time to read these numerous comments, you are implying that the Gazan deaths were small in relation to other conflicts, and I reminded the readers that because Gaza's population is a tenth or less than the countries with conflicts that you mentioned, the Gaza death rate is proportionally similar to the situation in those countries, if not worse.

No I'm implying exactly what I said, that Hamas used civilians as human shields and bragged about using them as sacrifice. In fact Sinwar lauded the high death toll. 

[Nick Carter icp]

22 minutes ago, placnx said:

There was an arrangement with Egypt for Israel to monitor the border remotely.

 

   So why didn't Egypt end that agreement and allow food trucks in ?