A new way to turn right at the intersection, Thai style?

[rct99q]

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Good thing there are laws against it, and dashcams to protect us from financial ruin. We are living amongst barbarians, they lack common sense and critical thinking skills.

Yup. How long have you lived here? You do realize it is a third world country. Nearly every country in the entire world has "laws", very few, enforce them properly. Just see the rise in hate crimes all over as an example. This country is on par with countries like Uganda or Spain.

[kwilco]

looks to me as if the road and lane signage was obscured. THe Songthaew moved into the wrong lane clearly believing it was the r/h turn lane. The vehicle with the rear cam would also have obscured his view of the bollards at first.

 

THe result was he tried to go down the wrong side of the dual carriageway.

 

However it must be noted that their was a man with a red flag stationed at the junction - this would indicate that this was happeming a lot for some reason - to the point that they had to station a chap there.

 

It's a pity there is no dash cam looking at the signage BEFORE the junction.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, kwilco said:

looks to me as if the road and lane signage was obscured. THe Songthaew moved into the wrong lane clearly believing it was the r/h turn lane. The vehicle with the rear cam would also have obscured his view of the bollards at first.

 

THe result was he tried to go down the wrong side of the dual carriageway.

 

However it must be noted that their was a man with a red flag stationed at the junction - this would indicate that this was happeming a lot for some reason - to the point that they had to station a chap there.

 

It's a pity there is no dash cam looking at the signage BEFORE the junction.

 

It seems you often go to great lengths to excuse blatant selfishness and irresponsible behaviour on the roads here.

 

Regarding the man with the flag, his role is straightforward: to ensure that traffic on the main road yields to vehicles exiting shopping malls or similar premises. Such attendants are a common sight across Thailand, stationed at mall exits, office car parks, and similar locations. Their presence is necessary precisely because many drivers refuse to show courtesy or give way.

 

As for the Songthaew driver in question, these drivers run the same routes daily and are well-acquainted with the road layout. He knew exactly what he was doing when attempting to force his way ahead of the original poster (OP).

 

This isn’t a complicated junction or a scenario difficult to grasp. It’s simply another example of the widespread lack of consideration, sense, and courtesy exhibited by many drivers on the roads here.

 

Had this happened anywhere else in the world such as the UK, it would still be blatant selfishness and irresponsible behaviour - Mine isn't an anti-Thai comment, its an anti-idiot comment !!!!

[lordgrinz]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It seems you often go to great lengths to excuse blatant selfishness and irresponsible behaviour on the roads here.

 

One of many reasons why I have had Kwilco on my ignore list for some time now 😉

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

t seems you often go to great lengths to excuse blatant selfishness and irresponsible behaviour on the roads here.

No I don't - I point out how incredibly inept people are at watching videos and how little they know about road safety.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

One of many reasons why I have had Kwilco on my ignore list for some time now 😉

you just can't take criticism

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

As for the Songthaew driver in question, these drivers run the same routes daily and are well-acquainted with the road layout.

So it looks like the layout may have changed - hance the guy with the red flag - you only see what your bigotry wants you to see.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

This isn’t a complicated junction or a scenario difficult to grasp.

you obviously haven't!

[Thingamabob]

On 11/25/2024 at 11:31 PM, lordgrinz said:

 

That's the worst part, probably the biggest reason why I hate being here, just sick of it. If they would fix this with enforcement, I might be willing to change my mind about Thailand.

If you hate being in Thailand, for whatever reason, probably best to leave.

[Ralf001]

On 11/27/2024 at 10:01 AM, rct99q said:

Yup. How long have you lived here? You do realize it is a third world country. Nearly every country in the entire world has "laws", very few, enforce them properly. Just see the rise in hate crimes all over as an example. This country is on par with countries like Uganda or Spain.

The term 3rd World Country refers to the unaligned countries of cold war. Yes, many of them were poor countries, but some weren’t. As the cold war is over, there are no 1st world, 2nd world or 3rd world countries any more and so Thailand is not a 3rd world country.

 

Maybe in your ignorance and tendency to watch US media you actually meant developing country.

 

• Developing status for a country refers to the overall level of development of a country, and while Thailand does some high end manufacturing the economy is still far for developed over all
• Plus, developing nation status is something a country can apply to itself, which gives them advantages in international trade based on WTO rules
• But Thailand scores very high on the Human Development Index, so all of these things depend on the categorisation scheme.

[Nid_Noi]

On 11/26/2024 at 7:21 AM, SAFETY FIRST said:

I'd say these Thai's are calling you the same names. 

 

Name calling is for school children. 

 

I've been driving in Thailand for decades, my biggest gripe on Thai roads are some of the foreigners.

Not giving way at intersections, disrespecting other road users, Yelling and screaming from their vehicles, aggressively blasting their horn etc, now these guys are the guys who you should be calling names. Obese foreigners trying to bully a small Thai. 

 

 

I must admit your description of foreigners riding motorbikes are pretty accurate. The more obese they are, the more they are willing to take some risks to spread their flesh on the asphalt. Too much clean-up for the Thai paramedics.

[Srikcir]

On 11/25/2024 at 10:19 PM, lordgrinz said:

Why turn at the intersection

It appears he was given "permission" by traffic police (?). And then he continued on.

Still  wrong.

[richard_smith237]

17 hours ago, kwilco said:

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

t seems you often go to great lengths to excuse blatant selfishness and irresponsible behaviour on the roads here.

No I don't - I point out how incredibly inept people are at watching videos and how little they know about road safety.

You mean you pour out how you strangely see something completely different to shoe-horn in an excuse for the stupid as you believe they is some underlying racism when comments are made on the behavior of some on the roads here. 
 

This junction / exit from the mall cannot move clearly signed & marked, yet you still refuse to accept that the driver of the Songthaew was just a selfish idiot trying to force his way in. 
 

The obviousness of the stupidity is lost on you because you are so deep into this rabbit hole of trying to blame everything else but idiocy - & sometimes it really is just pure idiocy… nothing more. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

It appears he was given "permission" by traffic police (?). And then he continued on.

Still  wrong.

 

No.. he was still trying to ‘go around & then cut in’ until forced to fall back in line with the cam-car which was in the correct lane. 

[lordgrinz]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

No.. he was still trying to ‘go around & then cut in’ until forced to fall back in line with the cam-car which was in the correct lane. 

The guy on the left is there for the Zebra crossings only, which is why he has the red flag, only the guy to the right standing in the middle of the intersection is doing traffic control.

[lordgrinz]

3 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

If you hate being in Thailand, for whatever reason, probably best to leave.

 

If I could, I would.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

No.. he was still trying to ‘go around & then cut in’ until forced to fall back in line with the cam-car which was in the correct lane. 

just shows how little comprehension you have of my post and how to look at the video. you can't even make a reasoned comment on my post.

 

THat junction is undergoing multiple repairs and has had several major alterations including lane changes including direction and we all know how bad signage is on roadworks  - that's why they have at least 2 people directing traffic. The lane the camera drove into has one lane closed - it even looks as if he had to swap lanes. but you wouldn't notice any of that.

As every all you are trying to do is justify you own prejudiced assumptions by reducing your argument to a series of false dichotomies based on deliberately misleading my posts. but this is what you always do.

What is the point of the video - no more than a false syllogism you bolster racist attitudes to driving in Thailand "here is some "bad driving" so all Thai drivers are bad and we foreigners are so much superior" - Even the title "A new way to turn right at the intersection, Thai style?" is essentially racist and  shows how little foreigners understand about driving at all  "a new way" - sarcasm - or just showing ignorance?- in reality is just shows that. foreign drivers are pretty por themselves and incapable of adapting to driving in Thailand.

[richard_smith237]

On 11/26/2024 at 3:28 AM, SAFETY FIRST said:

If you are looking for support for some Thai bashing you've come to the right place.

 

The Thai style of driving was here well before we all arrived, it's going to be here well after we all leave, it's not perfect but the world is not perfect.

 

We are the visitors here, we should be more understanding, try to assimilate when in Thailand, be more aware of their behaviour. 

 

Not all Thai drivers are antisocial, selfish idiots, far from it.

It’s a minority that stand-out and are more visible due to their reckless behaviour, which unfortunately disrupts the flow of traffic and puts others at risk. These drivers are often responsible for accidents, speeding, running red lights, obstructing traffic, and drink driving. Their actions leave a visible impact, making them hard to ignore.

 

That said, the majority of Thai drivers drive in a perfectly reasonable just like most others here, especially when you consider the challenges posed by high traffic density and the presence of other disruptive motorists. Many drivers navigate these conditions with admirable patience and skill, which deserves recognition.

 

It is this contrast that validates comments regarding the minority of problematic drivers, whose actions give rise to the frustrations frequently discussed in forums like this one.

 

Interestingly, Thai people themselves engage in similar discussions on local platforms such as Pantip. In fact, many of the viral videos showcasing dangerous or absurd driving behaviours originate from these Thai forums, where locals voice their own concerns.

 

Given this context, it’s worth reflecting: while it’s true that expatriates and visitors should respect their host country, what do you say to the many decent Thai citizens who share exactly the same frustrations?

 

Suggesting that only Thai's are entitled to an opinion about such matters risks dismissing the universal desire for safer, more considerate driving habits - something that benefits everyone here, regardless of nationality.

[richard_smith237]

21 minutes ago, kwilco said:

just shows how little comprehension you have of my post and how to look at the video. you can't even make a reasoned comment on my post.

 

That just shows how little comprehension of the video you watched... well, perhaps you haven't watched it yet, hence your comments. 

[richard_smith237]

21 minutes ago, kwilco said:

just shows how little comprehension you have of my post and how to look at the video. you can't even make a reasoned comment on my post.

 

THat junction is undergoing multiple repairs and has had several major alterations including lane changes including direction and we all know how bad signage is on roadworks  - that's why they have at least 2 people directing traffic. The lane the camera drove into has one lane closed - it even looks as if he had to swap lanes. but you wouldn't notice any of that.

As every all you are trying to do is justify you own prejudiced assumptions by reducing your argument to a series of false dichotomies based on deliberately misleading my posts. but this is what you always do.

What is the point of the video - no more than a false syllogism you bolster racist attitudes to driving in Thailand "here is some "bad driving" so all Thai drivers are bad and we foreigners are so much superior" - Even the title "A new way to turn right at the intersection, Thai style?" is essentially racist and  shows how little foreigners understand about driving at all  "a new way" - sarcasm - or just showing ignorance?- in reality is just shows that. foreign drivers are pretty por themselves and incapable of adapting to driving in Thailand.

 

If this junction were truly so difficult to navigate, how has the OP and everyone else (most) watching the video found it so straightforward?

 

The answer is clear: the correct way to approach and complete the turn is glaringly obvious to anyone paying attention. Even the Songthaew driver knew this and made no genuine mistake - what he attempted was deliberate.

He was trying to "pull a fast one," forcing his way ahead of the OP’s car by disregarding both courtesy and rules.

This type of behaviour is far too common at junctions in Bangkok.

 

Take, for instance, a typical T-junction on a three-lane road controlled by traffic lights:

• Drivers in the left-turn-only lane frequently turn right, cutting around the outside of those in the correct lanes. This manoeuvre disrupts the flow, causing hesitation and slowing down traffic for everyone.
• Drivers in the right-turn lanes sometimes swerve out of line to bypass and cut off the car ahead, creating unnecessary congestion and potential hazards.

Such behaviour cannot be excused by poor road markings or confusion. These drivers know exactly what they are doing. Their actions are neither accidental nor misunderstood - they are calculated.

 

They are aware that their moves are cheeky, wrong, and risk causing accidents, but they proceed regardless. Why? Because the roads are so poorly policed that they can almost always get away with these selfish and inconsiderate antics without consequence.

 

This is not a matter of poor design or unclear rules and markings. It’s a matter of deliberate disregard for others on the road, driven by a lack of enforcement and accountability.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

What is the point of the video - no more than a false syllogism you bolster racist attitudes to driving in Thailand "here is some "bad driving" so all Thai drivers are bad and we foreigners are so much superior" - Even the title "A new way to turn right at the intersection, Thai style?" is essentially racist and  shows how little foreigners understand about driving at all  "a new way" - sarcasm - or just showing ignorance?- in reality is just shows that. foreign drivers are pretty por themselves and incapable of adapting to driving in Thailand.

 

I view it from another perspective:

 

Caution and preparedness are essential in navigating the unexpected.

 

One reason I engage with discussions like these is their reinforcement of a crucial mental practice - acknowledging that absurd incidents can and do occur around us. These reminders serve a valuable purpose.

 

Today, I was tempted to share a video of a motorcyclist I encountered. On a narrow soi, he pulled out from my right without so much as a glance, no helmet, no regard for safety. He came alarmingly close to colliding with the side of my car.

 

Frankly, I struggle to comprehend how such recklessness and a lack of self preservation is even possible. Observations like these are not rooted in prejudice but in an honest reflection of behaviour that warrants scrutiny.

 

This forum, intended for Westerners living in Thailand, provides a platform for such discussions. Similar critiques arise in online spaces in the UK, where reckless individuals and poor decisions are also called out, they also exist on local Thai forums, discussed by Thai's and the comments could be a copy and paste (translation) from many comments on these pages.

 

Let me reiterate: criticisms here are aimed squarely at the individuals whose behaviour is dangerous and, where relevant, at the shortcomings in local enforcement. The focus remains on the context of living in Thailand, which is the purpose of this forum.

 

As I mentioned earlier, Kwilco, you seem so committed to defending Thai practices that even when confronted with glaringly irresponsible actions, you appear to overlook them entirely in your need to defend Thai's instead choosing to levy accusations of racism - perhaps you need to look inwards at your own lack of balance when such discussions take place. 

 

 

 

[lordgrinz]

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

As I mentioned earlier, Kwilco, you seem so committed to defending Thai practices that even when confronted with glaringly irresponsible actions, you appear to overlook them entirely in your need to defend Thai's instead choosing to levy accusations of racism - perhaps you need to look inwards at your own lack of balance when such discussions take place. 

 

Like I've said before, I can show daily videos of insane driving and parking idiocy and that's for just two quick 2km round trip drives to my daughters school. There should be no reason I should see this every day, this video was just a demonstration of the insanity I witness daily. Yet, I spent almost a month back home in April/May, driving in multiple different states, and I can't remember even one act of insane/suicidal road manners on that trip. It was a wakeup call to how bad this country is, and really needs to be fixed, especially if they (Thailand) want a safe place for tourist to travel.

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

Like I've said before, I can show daily videos of insane driving and parking idiocy and that's for just two quick 2km round trip drives to my daughters school. There should be no reason I should see this every day, this video was just a demonstration of the insanity I witness daily. Yet, I spent almost a month back home in April/May, driving in multiple different states, and I can't remember even one act of insane/suicidal road manners on that trip. It was a wakeup call to how bad this country is, and really needs to be fixed, especially if they (Thailand) want a safe place for tourist to travel.

 

Very true - one of the comments I make that reenforces this.

- On a 2 hour journey from the Airport to my home in the UK - I don't see anything that makes me gasp or think, what the fluk - what was he thinking ?....

conversely... 

- On a 30 minute Journey from the Airport to my home in the UK - I've never 'not' seen anything that makes me gasp or think, what the fluk - what was he thinking ?.... 

 

There are plenty of good drivers here - there are just a lot more poor drivers here - thats not bias, its just observation. 

 

-------------------------

 

Some really stupid ones...

 

- I was on foot. Wife was in the car - slowly moving queueing traffic (about walking pace). I'm on the pavement walking up towards our car and am about to get in, when a motorcycle manoeuvres up on to the pavement and rides towards me as I'm about to get in the car.... He stops in front of me so I can't open the door, hits his horn... I have to get out of the way, then step back to where I was so I could open the car door. 

 

- Toyota Camry, U-turning under a Bridge, so basically turning right into two lanes of traffic. I'm driving. I'm behind the camry thats not moving... I'm trying to be patient, but the driver is making no attempt to pull out. 

Cars are approaching, but there is a lot of space and plenty of gap to pull out... after waiting some more I do something I've never done before (and something Kwilco will surely fire a shot at me for), I went around the stationary Toyota to the left, pulled out into to the road, and waved to the Toyota that he/she could not have space to pull out (maybe they were an extremely nervous driver), they still didn't move.... So, I just drove on, in my rear view mirror, the road was empty with the exception of other vehicles going around the Toyota - maybe the driver was unwell...  but their road positioning was good, but it seemed the were extremely hesitant to pull out into the road, even with over 50m (estimate) of free road to pull into.

 

- Then there was the guy on a scooter pulling out without looking and nearly riding into the side of me - I hadn't stopped he'd have hit me (of course - the 'dent' would have been repaired on my insurance).

 

Just one day brings loads of examples of stupidity and W.TF moments on the roads here.

 

------------

 

BUT... and this is a bug 'but'...   our area in the UK is rural

- B class roads (these are narrow roads, with dashed white line in the middle, enough splace for two cars to pass driving at normal speeds)

- C class roads (single lane roads with a periodic 'wider spot' for vehicles to stop and give way to allow approaching vehicles to pass).

 

Once I get to my area I notices how fast people drive - the B Class road - people driving at 60mph (which is the speed limit)... the approach speeds are thus 120mph (which is a 193 kmh closing speed) which seems just insane to me.

 

On the C-Class lanes they drive anywhere from 30-60 mph depending on visibility and weather, which is even more insane. 

 

Surprisingly few accidents, but when there is a head on crash, its catastrophic and over the past 30 years or everyone in the area knows of those catastrophic accidents - 4 that I recall - which is not bad over a long time span.

 

But, I still cringe when I get back to those roads that everyone there is used to and seeming belting along without any concern. 

 

People seem to drive those smaller roads a lot more carefully over here in Thailand. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lordgrinz]

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

BUT... and this is a bug 'but'...   our area in the UK is rural

- B class roads (these are narrow roads, with dashed white line in the middle, enough splace for two cars to pass driving at normal speeds)

- C class roads (single lane roads with a periodic 'wider spot' for vehicles to stop and give way to allow approaching vehicles to pass).

 

Once I get to my area I notices how fast people drive - the B Class road - people driving at 60mph (which is the speed limit)... the approach speeds are thus 120mph (which is a 193 kmh closing speed) which seems just insane to me.

 

On the C-Class lanes they drive anywhere from 30-60 mph depending on visibility and weather, which is even more insane. 

 

I did notice when I travelled from Massachusetts to Florida, that the Florida roads were like your UK B-Class roads, some pretty insane approach speeds, some were 65mph lanes. Though the one thing that blew my mind the most in Florida was some 50 mph intersections with no control lights for turning across oncoming lanes. No lighting on long stretches of 2-lane potholed roads at 65 mph was a little nerve racking, especially late at night, I assume it's because of the enormous distances you have to travel down there.

[kwilco]

This video is all about perception and prejudice…..

What this video does NOT show – it doesn’t show that Westerners are better at driving than Thailand people – and certainly not in Thailand.

It does NOT relate to road deaths in Thailand.

It’s worth bearing in mind that 80% of road deaths are motorcycle users. If you look at deaths on 4-wheeled vehicles in Thailand they actually are slightly LOWER than in the USA.

 

The video does show how prejudiced Westerners are about Thai drivers and how little they understand about road safety and driving in the kingdom. They have no idea how cosseted they are at home and mistake that for being “good drivers”.

 

When you look at other yardsticks you find that Thailand is nowhere near as bad as foreigner drivers like to believe,– e.g.

 Deaths per 10 billion vehicle-KM

Deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles

Registered vehicles per 1000 inhabitants

Thailand is nowhere near the top in these figures.

But the EL media and westerners are obsessed only with the one stat - DP 100k pop.– and that is not even the one normally use in road safety science. Which is fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles travelled (VMT).

 

BTW – the US has a very poor road safety record compared to Europe, (about 4 times that of the UK per 100k pop, Thailand is 10 to 12 y=times that of the UK but oddly enough from a collision rate that is nowhere near proportionally greater.)

 

[wavodavo]

On 11/26/2024 at 2:13 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Nice one...  you held your path

 

I dont know what makes these guys drive the way they do... they're just moronic...  so utterly brainless.

 

The annoying part is the inconvenience they cause when they hit someone - or, through some brainless sense of loss of face they get angry because you drove normally and they couldn't cut you off...  total twits... 

... I find the Pickup based company box-truck drivers much worse though... 

 

Wife was driving yesterday...    One next to us on our left, another next to us on our right (we were in the middle lane) both wanted to join the middle lane and slowly edged towards us, but wife had nowhere to go...  they were getting closer and closer, forcing her to brake when all they had to do was slow and tuck in behind...   

 

Ok - so most drivers on the roads here are perfectly decent - but that is overwhelmed by a very visible minority of outright fools driving with complete stupidity.

 

 

Mate, you've just gotta suck it up you are in their country and that's how they drive .You know what they are like so all you have to do is be alert and expect them to break all the road rules and stay out of their way and you should also bear in mind that if you have an accident it will always be your fault no matter who was in the wrong and it will cost you. Further-more ,if you don't like how they drive sell your car and get a taxi or tuk-tuk .

[SAFETY FIRST]

7 minutes ago, wavodavo said:

Mate, you've just gotta suck it up you are in their country and that's how they drive .You know what they are like so all you have to do is be alert and expect them to break all the road rules and stay out of their way and you should also bear in mind that if you have an accident it will always be your fault no matter who was in the wrong and it will cost you. Further-more ,if you don't like how they drive sell your car and get a taxi or tuk-tuk .

Well said mate 👍

 

I've spoken the same words to many members here who constantly moan, always whinging and whining about Thailand's poor driving habits. 

 

 

[lordgrinz]

2 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Well said mate 👍

 

I've spoken the same words to many members here who constantly moan, always whinging and whining about Thailand's poor driving habits. 

 

 

Actually he's wrong as usual, and no we are not automatically at fault in an accident, that's just complete nonsense.