American Exceptionalism: Reality or Just a Myth?

[SoCal1990]

I’ve seen a common but distorted perception among Americans who’ve never left the country, and even some who are living abroad: America is the greatest, most free, and most opportunity-rich nation on Earth. The idea is ingrained in the U.S. from a very early age, reinforced through grammar school curriculums, history books, news media, and even Hollywood movies. This belief in "American Exceptionalism" often paints the U.S. as the strongest pillar of human rights, democracy, and freedom that the world has to offer. But is this view a product of reality, or is it a deluded symptom of never seeing or understanding what’s outside the box?

For those who have lived outside the U.S., or who were born and raised in other countries, this narrative often doesn’t align with their thoughts. Many non-U.S. citizens may already live in countries where healthcare is affordable or free, where workers get generous amounts of paid leave, and where public safety nets are better at ensuring a decent quality of life without the stress of bankruptcy that many Americans face over something as basic as medical bills. Many people outside the U.S. feel they enjoy even more freedom in their own countries than what’s portrayed as uniquely exclusive to being an American. After all, can you truly call it the greatest country of freedom when people have to work two to three jobs just to survive and can’t stop worrying about their skyrocketing medical and auto insurance premiums?

There’s also the question of personal liberties. In countries across Europe (and the most developed parts of Asia) citizens might feel safer and freer to walk home late at night without fear, protest without heavy-handed government responses, or express opposing political views without it resulting in the same level of societal division as seen in America. When compared to some of America’s many challenges—such as gun violence, economic inequality, polarized politics, and a lack of universal healthcare—many outside the U.S. see its portrayed “freedom” as merely marketing propaganda that’s been peddled to Americans and the world since shortly after the end of WWII.

The problem is Americans who never travel abroad don’t ever get to see the many other developed countries in action. Without firsthand experience, it’s easy for naive minds to cling to the comforting narrative that America is the best country there ever was.

But is this American belief based on actual facts and comparisons, or just on not knowing and never making any? And how do you think the views of people from other nations, looking in from the outside, stack up against America’s own vision of itself? Is it a view commonly shared around the world or just the distorted American view of itself?

[novacova]

20 minutes ago, SoCal1990 said:

I’ve seen a common but distorted perception among Americans who’ve never left the country, and even some who are living abroad: America is the greatest, most free, and most opportunity-rich nation on Earth.

It is. That is what makes it exceptional.

22 minutes ago, SoCal1990 said:

In countries across Europe (and the most developed parts of Asia) citizens might feel safer and freer to walk home late at night without fear, protest without heavy-handed government responses, or express opposing political views without it resulting in the same level of societal division as seen in America.

Big cities across the globe are riddled with crime, with the exception of a small few such as Tokyo. Rural America and small cities are very safe. You watch the television news and you’d be under the delusion that crime is rampant everywhere. It’s not.
Try voicing your political views in much of the world and you’ll find great disappointment. In the US anyone and everyone has absolute freedom to express their political opinions and can even flip the bird and yell FU! to the cops without fear of being arrested or plugged full of lead.

30 minutes ago, SoCal1990 said:

And how do you think the views of people from other nations, looking in from the outside, stack up against America’s own vision of itself?

Envy. 

31 minutes ago, SoCal1990 said:

Is it a view commonly shared around the world or just the distorted American view of itself?

America doesn’t have a distorted view of itself. Some Americans disenfranchise themselves for lack of ambition and develop negative views through peers and their own self imposed oppression.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, SoCal1990 said:

But is this view a product of reality, or is it a deluded symptom of never seeing or understanding what’s outside the box?

It's like asking a stupid person if he is stupid. I never met one who told me he is actually stupid.

Same same, not much different to above. 

[MalcolmB]

Exceptionally stupid people in general. 

The land of alternative truth, WWE, weird religion, gun freedoms, fentanyl use in open, terrible health care if you have no money, racial tensions, Trump, Diddy, Epstein, Weinstein, Michael Jackson, obesity, high rates of incarceration, daily mass shootings, conspiracy theorists

[Walker88]

I have a rough idea what “American Exceptionalism” means to those who use the term, but I also think exceptional isn’t clearly defined. To some extent. America is an acquired taste.

 

I do think the original goal of the Founders is exceptional, and what they intended the country to work toward is now taken for granted by the majority of people around the world, which is that everyone is equal by law and has unalienable rights simply by virtue of existing. Madison and Jefferson borrowed from Locke, Rousseau, Descartes and others, and they also seemed to know the Founders were flawed men, so they set up a flexible and dynamic system that could and would adjust as social mores changed. Thus, what started out as rights primarily for white male landowners developed over time to include both genders and all ethnicities, and became independent of wealth.

 

That foundation drew in people seeking more freedom and a chance to become whatever their skills, talents and ambition could make them. I do think it was, and remains, easier for anybody to rise to the top of society in the US, regardless of place, manner or circumstances of birth, than anywhere else in the world. That belief makes for greater efficiency, as brilliance is not held back because of wealth or lack thereof, of family connections, of ethnicity or belief system, or gender. It is hardly a surprise, given that view plus a sizeable population, that the US regularly leads in invention, discovery, Nobel Prizes, etc.

 

Whether this continues or not is a matter open to speculation and discussion. The trend toward excessive nationalistic views, often falling along racial lines, and the current political system that attacks what the Founders specifically established, threatens everything the US became. Tossing out the Constitution (for the Bible, per some elected officials), changing the 1st Amendment as 47 has said he would like, and the Supreme Court recently obviating equality under the law by determining a President is virtually a monarch, do not bode well for continued exceptionalism, but rather a decline into mediocrity or worse. The Constitution and the system of checks and balances, where three branches of government share power, have worked pretty well for 250 years, but it is all at risk right now.

 

Of course there are other matters that detract from anything approaching exceptional, if that term is to be defined positively. High rates of violence and high rates of incarceration are hardly positive. The qini coefficient is pretty high, but not even as high as Thailand. Lack of understanding basic civics and what the actual founding principles of the country are---which even the Supreme Court seems to have forgotten---add to the risk it can all fall apart. America was late to toss out slavery, too. On the other hand, the US is probably the reason Colonialism and Imperialism died. For example the US could have simply taken over all Middle East oil fields, playing like everyone in history from Alexander to Genghis Khan to the British Empire, but it didn't do it. Having the power to do virtually anything it wanted---especially right after WWII---and NOT doing what it easily could have done, is rather exceptional.

 

The country always has been a work in progress, with periods of time things became better and moved toward the goal of total equality under the law, and periods where the country fell off trend. It is falling off trend now, and its survival is by no means assured. Personally, I do not think it survives the next four years as a single, united unit, but breaks down in a combination of social upheaval and perhaps even a number of States seceding, a la 1860, albeit this time for freedom, not to oppress on the basis of skin color.

[jvs]

50 minutes ago, novacova said:

It is. That is what makes it exceptional.

Can you explain why?

Do you believe people in the US are better off than people in Europe?

Is being able to flip the police off a part of being/feeling free?

Tell me please what freedom you have that others don't?

Being able to carry a gun imo is nothing to be proud off.

Free speech is over rated ,not much to brag about when you are allowed to hurt/offend others just because you can.

Have you traveled a lot and seen other cultures and worked over seas?

 

[G_Money]

2 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I have a rough idea what “American Exceptionalism” means to those who use the term, but I also think exceptional isn’t clearly defined. To some extent. America is an acquired taste.

 

I do think the original goal of the Founders is exceptional, and what they intended the country to work toward is now taken for granted by the majority of people around the world, which is that everyone is equal by law and has unalienable rights simply by virtue of existing. Madison and Jefferson borrowed from Locke, Rousseau, Descartes and others, and they also seemed to know the Founders were flawed men, so they set up a flexible and dynamic system that could and would adjust as social mores changed. Thus, what started out as rights primarily for white male landowners developed over time to include both genders and all ethnicities, and became independent of wealth.

 

That foundation drew in people seeking more freedom and a chance to become whatever their skills, talents and ambition could make them. I do think it was, and remains, easier for anybody to rise to the top of society in the US, regardless of place, manner or circumstances of birth, than anywhere else in the world. That belief makes for greater efficiency, as brilliance is not held back because of wealth or lack thereof, of family connections, of ethnicity or belief system, or gender. It is hardly a surprise, given that view plus a sizeable population, that the US regularly leads in invention, discovery, Nobel Prizes, etc.

 

Whether this continues or not is a matter open to speculation and discussion. The trend toward excessive nationalistic views, often falling along racial lines, and the current political system that attacks what the Founders specifically established, threatens everything the US became. Tossing out the Constitution (for the Bible, per some elected officials), changing the 1st Amendment as 47 has said he would like, and the Supreme Court recently obviating equality under the law by determining a President is virtually a monarch, do not bode well for continued exceptionalism, but rather a decline into mediocrity or worse. The Constitution and the system of checks and balances, where three branches of government share power, have worked pretty well for 250 years, but it is all at risk right now.

 

Of course there are other matters that detract from anything approaching exceptional, if that term is to be defined positively. High rates of violence and high rates of incarceration are hardly positive. The qini coefficient is pretty high, but not even as high as Thailand. Lack of understanding basic civics and what the actual founding principles of the country are---which even the Supreme Court seems to have forgotten---add to the risk it can all fall apart. America was late to toss out slavery, too. On the other hand, the US is probably the reason Colonialism and Imperialism died. For example the US could have simply taken over all Middle East oil fields, playing like everyone in history from Alexander to Genghis Khan to the British Empire, but it didn't do it. Having the power to do virtually anything it wanted---especially right after WWII---and NOT doing what it easily could have done, is rather exceptional.

 

The country always has been a work in progress, with periods of time things became better and moved toward the goal of total equality under the law, and periods where the country fell off trend. It is falling off trend now, and its survival is by no means assured. Personally, I do not think it survives the next four years as a single, united unit, but breaks down in a combination of social upheaval and perhaps even a number of States seceding, a la 1860, albeit this time for freedom, not to oppress on the basis of skin color.

The gift that keeps on giving.

 

The girls have reserved a spot for their boy.

Center towards the front. Right behind the fat girl in pink.  Same color as your spandex pants at the gym benching over 300 lbs.

 

You should feel honored to join them.  
 

After all, you’ve earned that spot.

 

Make sure you open your mouth wide and scream.

 

 

 

 

[sqwakvfr]

As a naturalized American I look at exceptionalism this way:  Exceptional opportunity for everyone who puts in the effort.  Like this guy: SFC Gai US Army-Green Beret. . I can't think of many other countries that gives someone like this the opprotunity to achieve success like this.   As they say Hoorah, SFC Gai. 

 

[TedG]

30 minutes ago, jvs said:

Can you explain why?

Do you believe people in the US are better off than people in Europe?

Is being able to flip the police off a part of being/feeling free?

Tell me please what freedom you have that others don't?

Being able to carry a gun imo is nothing to be proud off.

Free speech is over rated ,not much to brag about when you are allowed to hurt/offend others just because you can.

Have you traveled a lot and seen other cultures and worked over seas?

 

 

Free speech is not overrated. 

[Jingthing]

I'm with Obama on this one.

Every country thinks they're exceptional. 

America does have differences.

It has pros and cons like every other nation.

It's not the best place to live in the world, and it's also not the worst.

Countries and civilizations tell stories about themselves. The stories don't need to reflect truth but stories are important in human culture.

[jas007]

The belief in American Exceptionalism is nothing new, it has been around almost since the founding of America.  

 

More recently, the Neocons have embraced the concept and blending it into foreign policy.  This only started in the GW Bush era.  Anyway, they seem to want to take the concept and run with it to the extent of using military power to spread American Exceptionalism around the world.  So-called nation building. So far, it hasn't worked so well, but they keep trying.  Failed war after failed war.  

 

The problem is that they don't really account for cultural differences.  Many people around the world are perfectly happy in their own country with their own culture.  No everyone around the world ants to be a card carrying Republican in a Brooks Brothers suit.  And that's why they're failing. 

[dinsdale]

2 hours ago, SoCal1990 said:

I’ve seen a common but distorted perception among Americans who’ve never left the country, and even some who are living abroad: America is the greatest, most free, and most opportunity-rich nation on Earth. The idea is ingrained in the U.S. from a very early age, reinforced through grammar school curriculums, history books, news media, and even Hollywood movies. This belief in "American Exceptionalism" often paints the U.S. as the strongest pillar of human rights, democracy, and freedom that the world has to offer. But is this view a product of reality, or is it a deluded symptom of never seeing or understanding what’s outside the box?

For those who have lived outside the U.S., or who were born and raised in other countries, this narrative often doesn’t align with their thoughts. Many non-U.S. citizens may already live in countries where healthcare is affordable or free, where workers get generous amounts of paid leave, and where public safety nets are better at ensuring a decent quality of life without the stress of bankruptcy that many Americans face over something as basic as medical bills. Many people outside the U.S. feel they enjoy even more freedom in their own countries than what’s portrayed as uniquely exclusive to being an American. After all, can you truly call it the greatest country of freedom when people have to work two to three jobs just to survive and can’t stop worrying about their skyrocketing medical and auto insurance premiums?

There’s also the question of personal liberties. In countries across Europe (and the most developed parts of Asia) citizens might feel safer and freer to walk home late at night without fear, protest without heavy-handed government responses, or express opposing political views without it resulting in the same level of societal division as seen in America. When compared to some of America’s many challenges—such as gun violence, economic inequality, polarized politics, and a lack of universal healthcare—many outside the U.S. see its portrayed “freedom” as merely marketing propaganda that’s been peddled to Americans and the world since shortly after the end of WWII.

The problem is Americans who never travel abroad don’t ever get to see the many other developed countries in action. Without firsthand experience, it’s easy for naive minds to cling to the comforting narrative that America is the best country there ever was.

But is this American belief based on actual facts and comparisons, or just on not knowing and never making any? And how do you think the views of people from other nations, looking in from the outside, stack up against America’s own vision of itself? Is it a view commonly shared around the world or just the distorted American view of itself?

All countries and people within them are fkd up one way or another. Some just worse than others. USA. The majority of people believe in an invisible all mighty being. That's fkd up right there.

Edited 4 hours ago by dinsdale

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, G_Money said:

The gift that keeps on giving.

 

The girls have reserved a spot for their boy.

Center towards the front. Right behind the fat girl in pink.  Same color as your spandex pants at the gym benching over 300 lbs.

 

You should feel honored to join them.  
 

After all, you’ve earned that spot.

 

Make sure you open your mouth wide and scream.

 

 

 

 

Mmmm? Interesting AI rendering. Reckon I've seen this before on this forum.

[Lacessit]

There are some things America does extremely well, and others it does very badly.

 

For example, O'Hare airport in Chicago, and Dallas-Fort Worth, are aeronautical marvels of flight control. I can never forget flying into O'Hare and seeing aircraft lined up behind me like taxis, as far as the eye could see.

 

OTOH, China has 29,000 miles of high speed rail criss-crossing the country. America has just 50 miles.

 

There are some things where America is truly exceptional. However, it also has some serious baggage.

Edited 4 hours ago by Lacessit

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, G_Money said:

The gift that keeps on giving.

 

The girls have reserved a spot for their boy.

Center towards the front. Right behind the fat girl in pink.  Same color as your spandex pants at the gym benching over 300 lbs.

 

You should feel honored to join them.  
 

After all, you’ve earned that spot.

 

Make sure you open your mouth wide and scream.

 

 

 

 

The usual inane response to a thoughtful post, belittling is all you can do.

 

You don't even have the originality to use a different AI meme to the one posted on another thread, more mindless parroting.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, MalcolmB said:

Exceptionally stupid people in general. 

The land of alternative truth, WWE, weird religion, gun freedoms, fentanyl use in open, terrible health care if you have no money, racial tensions, Trump, Diddy, Epstein, Weinstein, Michael Jackson, obesity, high rates of incarceration, daily mass shootings, conspiracy theorists

You forgot the land of free

[Keep Right]

Before and after the second world war there was a huge influx of Jewish people to the United States. Many of these people have been exceptional at creating business and wealth. In the 1800's there was a huge influx of Germans and Dutch who also were very industrious and created wealth. Many countries college graduates migrate to the U.S. I have met many Thai PhDs in the United States that have migrated legally. These people do not migrate to Haiti or the Sudan but to the country that offers them the most opportunity and in that lies the exceptionalism.

[Lacessit]

19 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

Before and after the second world war there was a huge influx of Jewish people to the United States. Many of these people have been exceptional at creating business and wealth. In the 1800's there was a huge influx of Germans and Dutch who also were very industrious and created wealth. Many countries college graduates migrate to the U.S. I have met many Thai PhDs in the United States that have migrated legally. These people do not migrate to Haiti or the Sudan but to the country that offers them the most opportunity and in that lies the exceptionalism.

I suggest you check out how many Asians come to Australia to get university degrees.

[G_Money]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

The usual inane response to a thoughtful post, belittling is all you can do.

 

You don't even have the originality to use a different AI meme to the one posted on another thread, more mindless parroting.

Thoughtful??  From the leader of your leftist cult.  

Exactly the response I expected from his number 1 minion.

 

Your ignorance gets worse with every post.
 

When the shoe is a perfect fit, one should wear it.

Edited 3 hours ago by G_Money

[novacova]

2 hours ago, jvs said:

Can you explain why?

Note the OP…

4 hours ago, SoCal1990 said:

America is the greatest, most free, and most opportunity-rich nation on Earth.

 

2 hours ago, jvs said:

Do you believe people in the US are better off than people in Europe?

Is being able to flip the police off a part of being/feeling free?

American exceptionalism has nothing to do with being better off than others or doing offensive stuff, is why folks such as yourself lack the basic concept of what the foundation of America is about: freedom of speech/expression is the epitome of self ownership and capitalism. The US has led the way in human freedoms and capitalism for the western world, where and how would you be now if the US never existed? Under the control of a dictatorial regime no doubt. So you lefties should really open your eyes a little.

[jvs]

28 minutes ago, novacova said:

Note the OP…

 

American exceptionalism has nothing to do with being better off than others or doing offensive stuff, is why folks such as yourself lack the basic concept of what the foundation of America is about: freedom of speech/expression is the epitome of self ownership and capitalism. The US has led the way in human freedoms and capitalism for the western world, where and how would you be now if the US never existed? Under the control of a dictatorial regime no doubt. So you lefties should really open your eyes a little.

Well calling names shows your ignorance,done with you.

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, novacova said:

It is. That is what makes it exceptional.

Big cities across the globe are riddled with crime, with the exception of a small few such as Tokyo. Rural America and small cities are very safe. You watch the television news and you’d be under the delusion that crime is rampant everywhere. It’s not.
Try voicing your political views in much of the world and you’ll find great disappointment. In the US anyone and everyone has absolute freedom to express their political opinions and can even flip the bird and yell FU! to the cops without fear of being arrested or plugged full of lead.

Envy. 

America doesn’t have a distorted view of itself. Some Americans disenfranchise themselves for lack of ambition and develop negative views through peers and their own self imposed oppression.

 

Hilarious! Thanks for brightening up another dull Saturday evening in Pyongyang.

Edited 2 hours ago by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Exceptionally stupid people in general. 

The land of alternative truth, WWE, weird religion, gun freedoms, fentanyl use in open, terrible health care if you have no money, racial tensions, Trump, Diddy, Epstein, Weinstein, Michael Jackson, obesity, high rates of incarceration, daily mass shootings, conspiracy theorists

 

America....making the rest of the world look better and better, day by day.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I have a rough idea what “American Exceptionalism” means to those who use the term, but I also think exceptional isn’t clearly defined. To some extent. America is an acquired taste.

 

I do think the original goal of the Founders is exceptional, and what they intended the country to work toward is now taken for granted by the majority of people around the world, which is that everyone is equal by law and has unalienable rights simply by virtue of existing. Madison and Jefferson borrowed from Locke, Rousseau, Descartes and others, and they also seemed to know the Founders were flawed men, so they set up a flexible and dynamic system that could and would adjust as social mores changed. Thus, what started out as rights primarily for white male landowners developed over time to include both genders and all ethnicities, and became independent of wealth.

 

That foundation drew in people seeking more freedom and a chance to become whatever their skills, talents and ambition could make them. I do think it was, and remains, easier for anybody to rise to the top of society in the US, regardless of place, manner or circumstances of birth, than anywhere else in the world. That belief makes for greater efficiency, as brilliance is not held back because of wealth or lack thereof, of family connections, of ethnicity or belief system, or gender. It is hardly a surprise, given that view plus a sizeable population, that the US regularly leads in invention, discovery, Nobel Prizes, etc.

 

Whether this continues or not is a matter open to speculation and discussion. The trend toward excessive nationalistic views, often falling along racial lines, and the current political system that attacks what the Founders specifically established, threatens everything the US became. Tossing out the Constitution (for the Bible, per some elected officials), changing the 1st Amendment as 47 has said he would like, and the Supreme Court recently obviating equality under the law by determining a President is virtually a monarch, do not bode well for continued exceptionalism, but rather a decline into mediocrity or worse. The Constitution and the system of checks and balances, where three branches of government share power, have worked pretty well for 250 years, but it is all at risk right now.

 

Of course there are other matters that detract from anything approaching exceptional, if that term is to be defined positively. High rates of violence and high rates of incarceration are hardly positive. The qini coefficient is pretty high, but not even as high as Thailand. Lack of understanding basic civics and what the actual founding principles of the country are---which even the Supreme Court seems to have forgotten---add to the risk it can all fall apart. America was late to toss out slavery, too. On the other hand, the US is probably the reason Colonialism and Imperialism died. For example the US could have simply taken over all Middle East oil fields, playing like everyone in history from Alexander to Genghis Khan to the British Empire, but it didn't do it. Having the power to do virtually anything it wanted---especially right after WWII---and NOT doing what it easily could have done, is rather exceptional.

 

The country always has been a work in progress, with periods of time things became better and moved toward the goal of total equality under the law, and periods where the country fell off trend. It is falling off trend now, and its survival is by no means assured. Personally, I do not think it survives the next four years as a single, united unit, but breaks down in a combination of social upheaval and perhaps even a number of States seceding, a la 1860, albeit this time for freedom, not to oppress on the basis of skin color.

 

Nicely stated sir, thanks.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, G_Money said:

The gift that keeps on giving.

 

The girls have reserved a spot for their boy.

Center towards the front. Right behind the fat girl in pink.  Same color as your spandex pants at the gym benching over 300 lbs.

 

You should feel honored to join them.  
 

After all, you’ve earned that spot.

 

Make sure you open your mouth wide and scream.

 

 

 

 

 

And in perfect counterpoise, we have this.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

As a naturalized American I look at exceptionalism this way:  Exceptional opportunity for everyone who puts in the effort.  Like this guy: SFC Gai US Army-Green Beret. . I can't think of many other countries that gives someone like this the opprotunity to achieve success like this.   As they say Hoorah, SFC Gai. 

 

 

Excellent example, thanks.

 

Now he can press on with America's unique trait of military exceptionalism. He who has most guns wins.

 

I would have thought the Navy SEALS would have been more indicative of success but he probably can't swim well enough.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

You forgot the land of free

...and home of the brave 

 

Yes, you have to give it to Bosnia.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Keep Right said:

Before and after the second world war there was a huge influx of Jewish people to the United States. Many of these people have been exceptional at creating business and wealth. In the 1800's there was a huge influx of Germans and Dutch who also were very industrious and created wealth. Many countries college graduates migrate to the U.S. I have met many Thai PhDs in the United States that have migrated legally. These people do not migrate to Haiti or the Sudan but to the country that offers them the most opportunity and in that lies the exceptionalism.

The Italians? You forgot the bloody Italians.

 

Then there's the Irish?

 

You're not doing very well at this at all, are you?

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I suggest you check out how many Asians come to Australia to get university degrees.

 

Yes, correct but AirAsia and Scoot don't fly trans-Pacific do they?

[NanLaew]

56 minutes ago, novacova said:

Note the OP…

 

American exceptionalism has nothing to do with being better off than others or doing offensive stuff, is why folks such as yourself lack the basic concept of what the foundation of America is about: freedom of speech/expression is the epitome of self ownership and capitalism. The US has led the way in human freedoms and capitalism for the western world, where and how would you be now if the US never existed? Under the control of a dictatorial regime no doubt. So you lefties should really open your eyes a little.

 

You do realize it cost Churchill a bloody fortune to get the Japanese to bomb you off your wall of isolationist indifference at Pearl Harbor.