Taxation Registration

[StevieAus]

I read an article on this site by an expat

"taxation expert" advising expats who reside here permeantly to register and obtain a tax ID. 

I am interested as to how many have followed this advice. 

[msbkk]

I went to the Revenue Department to obtain a tax ID without any problem. I did however not see this video and did also not follow any advice. The tax ID can also have some benefits to get a tax return on paid withholding taxes on interest and dividends. In my case my overseas banks insisted on the Thsi based tax ID.

[CharlieH]

MOVED to Finance 

[Moonlover]

I suggest that you go and take a look the linked thread @StevieAus where this topic has recently been discussed at length.

 

 

[oldcpu]

I agree that there is more than one than one thread on this topic.

 

I posted many times on my current experience here. 

 

What the Phuket RD office told me (via my Thai wife as translator) that as long as I had insufficient assessable income from within Thailand, and if I was bringing no money into Thailand from outside of the country, then I did not need a Thai Tax_ID number (TIN).

 

Further, other factors come into play in assessing whether one's foreign income is assessed as assessable income if remitted to Thailand.

 

Recently (last year) the Thai RD documents PAW.161 and PAW.162 appear to indicate that any savings as of 31-Dec-2023 and earlier, if brought into Thailand after 31-Dec-2023, are NOT taxable (and I suspect not considered assessable income). Hence remitting such money is not enough justification to obtain a Thai TIN.

 

Also, if one has foreign income from a country with a Double Tax Agreement (DTA) with Thailand, dependent on the wording /agreement within that DTA, its possible one's foreign income (such as pensions) may not be taxable in Thailand....  Of course the DTA might say the opposite, so one needs to check their DTA.

 

I guess what I am saying, is this really depends on the specific situation of each person, and its quite possible most expats do not need a to register for Thai taxation.  ...   BUT in all due honesty - I don't know.  I don't know the average financial situation of expats.

 

Every expat needs to examine their own financial situation and make an appropriate determination as to their own requirements. 

 

[Moonlover]

7 hours ago, StevieAus said:

I read an article on this site by an expat

"taxation expert" advising expats who reside here permeantly to register and obtain a tax ID. 

I am interested as to how many have followed this advice. 

If you really want to know the answer to that, why don't you start a poll?

[0ffshore360]

I am following professional opinion from outside Thailand or AN  that clearly and adamantly states income that is earned and taxed in home country or derived from pensions ,savings lodged in and thus taxed in but subsequently transferred to Thailand is untaxable.

Those subject to Thai Revenue liability are those that have attempted global tax "avoidance" by whatever mechanism

advised to or chosen.

Consider the fact that the transfer of funds regardless of denomination is made through a system that thanks to G Bush Jnr. signing yet another US based invasion of human privacy rights permits the  scrutiny of ALL financial transactions globally.

To a large degree that explains the objection to  any international exchange of finances that does not involve the $US platform...ie BRICS trade or other.

 

[mikebike]

10 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

I am following professional opinion from outside Thailand or AN  that clearly and adamantly states income that is earned and taxed in home country or derived from pensions ,savings lodged in and thus taxed in but subsequently transferred to Thailand is untaxable.

Those subject to Thai Revenue liability are those that have attempted global tax "avoidance" by whatever mechanism

advised to or chosen.

Consider the fact that the transfer of funds regardless of denomination is made through a system that thanks to G Bush Jnr. signing yet another US based invasion of human privacy rights permits the  scrutiny of ALL financial transactions globally.

To a large degree that explains the objection to  any international exchange of finances that does not involve the $US platform...ie BRICS trade or other.

 

Yep. IF and ONLY IF, there is a reciprocal agreement. Otherwise any country can tax you all they want, don't matter where you come from or call home. They are sovereign nations and can do what they want.

[0ffshore360]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

Yep. IF and ONLY IF, there is a reciprocal agreement. Otherwise any country can tax you all they want, don't matter where you come from or call home. They are sovereign nations and can do what they want.

Ok. I omiitted the DTA . scenario but only as a given for the majority of  non Thai dupes in Thailand.

So and?

 

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Ok. I omiitted the DTA . scenario but only as a given for the majority of  non Thai dupes in Thailand.

So and?

 

It's OK. You can just say, " I was wrong". No need to obfuscate 🤣🤣

[merijn]

I'm living on Phuket and want to apply for the Thai Tax number (TIN).

But heard mixed report that this is possible or very difficult to get.

Does anybody has experience or advice for this ?

I'm willing to use a agent if this is required and affordable.

I don't work in Thailand but transfer sometimes money from my UK account to my Thai account.

[TimBKK]

After reading the myriad threads about all things tax related, my conclusion is to not register.  At least not now.

 

I won’t register until the Thai government/ RD makes it clear what we all need to do, and that hasn’t happened yet.

[Moonlover]

4 hours ago, TimBKK said:

After reading the myriad threads about all things tax related, my conclusion is to not register.  At least not now.

 

I won’t register until the Thai government/ RD makes it clear what we all need to do, and that hasn’t happened yet.

I have come to the same conclusion. My only income is derived from pensions which have already been taxed in the UK. Over 50% of that income is a government pension which the TRD cannot tax and the remainder is well below the threshold set by the TRD allowances.

 

I see no point in wasting my time or theirs.

[The Cyclist]

23 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I have come to the same conclusion. My only income is derived from pensions which have already been taxed in the UK. Over 50% of that income is a government pension which the TRD cannot tax and the remainder is well below the threshold set by the TRD allowances.

 

I see no point in wasting my time or theirs.

 

Your Government Pension does not need to be declared, as it is only taxable in the UK.

 

Your other pension should be declared, if it is above the tax filing thresholds in Thailand.

 

That does not mean that the non Government Pension will be taxable, once TEDA's and UK Tax paid are taken into consideration.

 

If you go back to Novemeber last year, this is exactly what I said I was doing.

 

Government Pension will continue to come direct to Thailand.

 

Last payment on my Private Pension to my Thai Bank account was 15 Dec 2023. It was then paid into my UK account and will continue to be paid into my UK account until clarity / sanity comes to this tax debacle.

[KannikaP]

I registered and got a TIN two years ago, with the help of the top man in my local Tax office. Told the truth that I only had my UK Pension and a smaller one from Norway. I was transferring 40k per month with 200k in the bank as Combination Method. The figures went into the computer (Windows 8 ! ) and came up with NOTHING TO PAY except Bht 200 for filing late. In March 2024 I went again with the same figures, with the same results. I can now reclaim the meagre tax I have had deducted from my Bkk Bank interest. No worries.

[oldcpu]

5 hours ago, merijn said:

I'm living on Phuket and want to apply for the Thai Tax number (TIN).

But heard mixed report that this is possible or very difficult to get.

Does anybody has experience or advice for this ?

I'm willing to use a agent if this is required and affordable.

I don't work in Thailand but transfer sometimes money from my UK account to my Thai account.

 

I live in Phuket.  I don't have any advise.  I have some experience, but my situation is very different from yours.

 

My Thai wife, thinking I should get a Thailand tax-ID, applied online for me to get a Thai tax ID. That online application goes to Bangkok based RD office and Bangkok forwarded it to the Phuket RD office.  A Phuket RD official phoned our place, my wife answered the call and all the talking was in Thai.  My wife told me later she was asked am I staying in Thaliand for >180 days in a taxation year (she answered yes) and what was my income source?  My wife says replied I had no Thai income, and only foreign pension income, where at the moment (since before 1-Jan-2024) I was bringing no money into Thailand.  The Phuket RD official advised if I had no Thai income and if I was bringing no money into Thailand,  I did not need a Thai tax ID number.  So he stated he would not give me a new tax-ID.  When my wife asked if my pink-ID #  could be used for an online Thai tax return, the RD official advised that was possible but that the pink-ID # had to be activated first as an online tax-ID # (to be used for an on-line tax return submission).

 

I am also on an LTR visa and my wife asked if on an LTR visa, and if I then bring current year income into Thailand, can I then get a tax-ID and need to file a Thai tax return?  The Phuket RD official advised he never heard of an LTR visa, that he would look into this, and phone back.  The Phuket RD official NEVER phoned back.  So I can only suppose he (and the Phuket RD office) either doesn't know yet, or they know but can't be bothered to phone me back (possibly - I hope - because on an LTR visa I won't need a Thai tax ID), or possibly because he has been busy and thus forgot about the promise to phone back. My suspicion is the later (he forgot).

 

As for your situation, you ARE bringing income into Thailand.  Assuming that you stay >180 days in Thailand in a taxation year , then I believe you need to familiarize yourself with the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) from the source country where you receive your income.  That may give further clue as to what your requirment is here in regards to whether you have adequate assessable foreign income to need to get a Thai Tax ID and file a Thai tax return.

 

That is my experience.

 

I suspect you could also go down to the Phuket RD office and simply sit in their office to get 'official' advice. You may need to sit for a long time.  I may do the same some time in the (distant) future.

 

Good luck and best wishes in your consideration.

 

[Delight]

5 hours ago, merijn said:

I'm living on Phuket and want to apply for the Thai Tax number (TIN).

But heard mixed report that this is possible or very difficult to get.

Does anybody has experience or advice for this ?

I'm willing to use a agent if this is required and affordable.

I don't work in Thailand but transfer sometimes money from my UK account to my Thai account.

 There is a website specifically designed to supply a TM30. This document is essential in order to acquire a TIN

 

My application has been acknowledge 

That was about 2 weeks ago.

Since then nothing.

I may have to visit immigration to get this issue resolved 

[merijn]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

I live in Phuket.  I don't have any advise.  I have some experience, but my situation is very different from yours.

 

My Thai wife, thinking I should get a Thailand tax-ID, applied online for me to get a Thai tax ID. That online application goes to Bangkok based RD office and Bangkok forwarded it to the Phuket RD office.  A Phuket RD official phoned our place, my wife answered the call and all the talking was in Thai.  My wife told me later she was asked am I staying in Thaliand for >180 days in a taxation year (she answered yes) and what was my income source?  My wife says replied I had no Thai income, and only foreign pension income, where at the moment (since before 1-Jan-2024) I was bringing no money into Thailand.  The Phuket RD official advised if I had no Thai income and if I was bringing no money into Thailand,  I did not need a Thai tax ID number.  So he stated he would not give me a new tax-ID.  When my wife asked if my pink-ID #  could be used for an online Thai tax return, the RD official advised that was possible but that the pink-ID # had to be activated first as an online tax-ID # (to be used for an on-line tax return submission).

 

I am also on an LTR visa and my wife asked if on an LTR visa, and if I then bring current year income into Thailand, can I then get a tax-ID and need to file a Thai tax return?  The Phuket RD official advised he never heard of an LTR visa, that he would look into this, and phone back.  The Phuket RD official NEVER phoned back.  So I can only suppose he (and the Phuket RD office) either doesn't know yet, or they know but can't be bothered to phone me back (possibly - I hope - because on an LTR visa I won't need a Thai tax ID), or possibly because he has been busy and thus forgot about the promise to phone back. My suspicion is the later (he forgot).

 

As for your situation, you ARE bringing income into Thailand.  Assuming that you stay >180 days in Thailand in a taxation year , then I believe you need to familiarize yourself with the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) from the source country where you receive your income.  That may give further clue as to what your requirment is here in regards to whether you have adequate assessable foreign income to need to get a Thai Tax ID and file a Thai tax return.

 

That is my experience.

 

I suspect you could also go down to the Phuket RD office and simply sit in their office to get 'official' advice. You may need to sit for a long time.  I may do the same some time in the (distant) future.

 

Good luck and best wishes in your consideration.

 

Thanks for the information,

I don't have income in Thailand but have income from the UK which is taxed in the UK and put into a UK bank account.

As i spend more then 180 days in Thailand and transfer sometimes money from the UK to Thailand i should (i believe) bassicly pay tax in Thailand over the money i transfer to Thailand.

Thailand and the UK have a tax agreement but i was informed that to be able to use the UK tax (P60) form it would be very difficult as the tax form has to be translated into Thai and certified at the Thai embassy in London and then authorised by the MOFA in Bangkok.

This is a impossible task for me and for most people i guess.

Therefore i would first only apply for a tax number and see later what will happen with paying taxes.

Meanwhile i'm using different methods to avoid transfering money from the UK to Thailand.

59 minutes ago, Delight said:

 There is a website specifically designed to supply a TM30. This document is essential in order to acquire a TIN

 

My application has been acknowledge 

That was about 2 weeks ago.

Since then nothing.

I may have to visit immigration to get this issue resolved 

I don't know what you mean but we are talking about tax number and possible paying taxes in Thailand.

Were not talking about the TM30 !!

[Celsius]

No one dumber than a white Westerner in Thailand. When enough people do this thay will in fact start taxing you.

 

Next thing you'all start glorifying men pretending to be women.

 

oh wait....

[RichardColeman]

What will they do if you do not pay tax, arrest you at immigration ? 

 

I have said before, the idea of taxing people in Thailand earning money coming from abroad if you work for an abroad company and you have not paid tax on it in that country is FINE in my opinion. It should be that ONLY, nothing else.

 

If this gets to the point of a tax on your savings in your home country and having to prove you had the savings years prior to sending it and how it was earned and taxed, then Thailand loses alot of its expats, and IF you have to pay millions of tax when sending money to buy a house it will also fall apart as the thai housing market cannot accept a 25% tax on foreign buyers

 

 

[oldcpu]

8 minutes ago, merijn said:

I don't have income in Thailand but have income from the UK which is taxed in the UK and put into a UK bank account.

As i spend more then 180 days in Thailand and transfer sometimes money from the UK to Thailand i should (i believe) bassicly pay tax in Thailand over the money i transfer to Thailand.

 

Don't forget there is the Thai Revenue Department (RD) documents Paw.161 and 162, where my understanding is they state that any income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024, if brought into Thailand anytime in the future is not taxable (and I believe not assessable income).  So if you have enough money in the UK, you don't have to dip into year 2024 nor 2025 income as the money you bring into Thaliand is pre-1-Jan-2024 money.

 

8 minutes ago, merijn said:

Thailand and the UK have a tax agreement but i was informed that to be able to use the UK tax (P60) form it would be very difficult as the tax form has to be translated into Thai and certified at the Thai embassy in London and then authorised by the MOFA in Bangkok.

This is a impossible task for me and for most people i guess.

Therefore i would first only apply for a tax number and see later what will happen with paying taxes.

Meanwhile i'm using different methods to avoid transfering money from the UK to Thailand.

 

 

Having to have something  certified at the Thai Embassy in London reads strange to me.

 

Are you certain that is not having it have it certified at the British Embassy in Bangkok? 

.

[merijn]

12 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

What will they do if you do not pay tax, arrest you at immigration ? 

 

I have said before, the idea of taxing people in Thailand earning money coming from abroad if you work for an abroad company and you have not paid tax on it in that country is FINE in my opinion. It should be that ONLY, nothing else.

 

If this gets to the point of a tax on your savings in your home country and having to prove you had the savings years prior to sending it and how it was earned and taxed, then Thailand loses alot of its expats, and IF you have to pay millions of tax when sending money to buy a house it will also fall apart as the thai housing market cannot accept a 25% tax on foreign buyers

 

 

I fully agree with you and i'm not afraid for the uimmigration departament as they are not linked anyhow with the tax departement but the tax department could start doing audits and then start doing difficult when not paying taxes.

 

10 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Don't forget there is the Thai Revenue Department (RD) documents Paw.161 and 162, where my understanding is they state that any income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024, if brought into Thailand anytime in the future is not taxable (and I believe not assessable income).  So if you have enough money in the UK, you don't have to dip into year 2024 nor 2025 income as the money you bring into Thaliand is pre-1-Jan-2024 money.

 

 

Having to have something  certified at the Thai Embassy in London reads strange to me.

 

Are you certain that is not having it have it certified at the British Embassy in Bangkok? 

.

As it was explained to me is that the Thai embassy has to authorise/certify the translation the UK (P60) tax papers, but that wasn't very clear i have to admit.

And then this had to be authorised (or how you call it) by the MOFA in Bangkok.

 

 

[oldcpu]

2 minutes ago, merijn said:

As it was explained to me is that the Thai embassy has to authorise/certify the translation the UK (P60) tax papers, but that wasn't very clear i have to admit.

And then this had to be authorised (or how you call it) by the MOFA in Bangkok.

 

It puzzles me because on a different matter getting my marriage (in Canada) to my Thai wife registered in Thailand, i had to:

(a) have our Canadian marriage certificate officially translated and certified at the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok (possibly not in that order), and
(b) have my Canadian passport (!) officially translated to Thai

(c) the above documents taken to a the Ministery of Foreign Affair (MOFA) in Bangkok for their certification of the copies.

(d) and other some local detail - not relevant to this thread.

 

The point I want to make, is a Canadian document had to be certified by a Canadian government organization (in this case the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok).

 

I don't understand how the Thai Embassy in London would be qualified to certify a British document. it make more sense to me that a British organization would have to certify such.

 

But I fully concede - i don't know what goes on between Thailand and Britain, and those who have done this before are the best one's to answer.

 

Best wishes in your efforts.

.

 

 

[merijn]

22 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

It puzzles me because on a different matter getting my marriage (in Canada) to my Thai wife registered in Thailand, i had to:

(a) have our Canadian marriage certificate officially translated and certified at the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok (possibly not in that order), and
(b) have my Canadian passport (!) officially translated to Thai

(c) the above documents taken to a the Ministery of Foreign Affair (MOFA) in Bangkok for their certification of the copies.

(d) and other some local detail - not relevant to this thread.

 

The point I want to make, is a Canadian document had to be certified by a Canadian government organization (in this case the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok).

 

I don't understand how the Thai Embassy in London would be qualified to certify a British document. it make more sense to me that a British organization would have to certify such.

 

But I fully concede - i don't know what goes on between Thailand and Britain, and those who have done this before are the best one's to answer.

 

Best wishes in your efforts.

.

 

 

It is very well possible that you are right as the person wasn't very clear explaining it to me.

[JohnnyBD]

On 12/8/2024 at 10:54 PM, StevieAus said:

I read an article on this site by an expat

"taxation expert" advising expats who reside here permeantly to register and obtain a tax ID. 

I am interested as to how many have followed this advice. 

I don't believe everyone is required to get a tax ID. IMO, many will get one and report their remitted assessable income if over the 60k filing threshold. But, I believe many will not get one just because they refuse to, or they don't know about it, or they have no assessable income to report, or they are tax exempt (LTR). I won't be getting one because I only remit non-assessable income and I also have a LTR visa. Just my opinion...

[oldcpu]

24 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

It puzzles me because on a different matter getting my marriage (in Canada) to my Thai wife registered in Thailand, i had to:

 

 

Further to this  - I had this done during the days when COVID was just starting, so I disliked the idea of travelling to Bangkok (as travel inside Thailand was becoming difficult).

 

It turns out (for foreign marriage certification) there was a translation service company in Bangkok that offered this service.  I had to provide them limited power of attorney, courier a bunch of documents (passport copies, original marriage certificate, wife's ID copy ... etc.. ) and they DID ALL THE LEG WORK - going to Canadian Embassy, going to MOFA, doing translations ,etc ... and courier back all official completed/approved documents.

 

Prior to sending such to Bangkok, and I was griping/bitching on this forum that it looked to be a PIA, and Ubon Joe (rest his soul) set me straight, advising me to look for a translation service which for a nominal amount of money would handle all of such.

 

Is that applicable to you?  I don't know.  Perhaps you tried such already with a service which did not know how to properly do this? or perhaps its not practical.

 

Before doing such my Thai wife and I did carefully communicate with the translation service to confirm they knew exactly what had to be done, and after, before proceeding,  that we double checked to confirm what they stated was correct (ie contacted  both the Canadian Embassy and MOFA prior)

 

[MJCM]

I am going to Tax Office somewhere in January, why in January because then I will receive my year statements from my European Banks and thus the Tax Office can immediately Fill in any Tax Form if they deem it necessary and I will pay the Tax Due there and then.

 

AFAIK, you can file your taxes with TRD up to end of March without paying a late fee charge.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

Are you certain that is not having it have it certified at the British Embassy in Bangkok?

 

Legalisation of any official UK document, such as the P60 tax form to which @merijnrefers, for use in Thailand is not, unfortunately, a mere matter of someone at the British Embassy in Bangkok simply plonking a stamp on said document. Instead, it involves a cumbersomely bureacratic and time-consuming process as spelt out in considerable detail in the following link:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/documents-for-british-people-abroad#getting-uk-documents-legalised-and-certified

 

In practice this essentially means him having to comply with these 3 steps sequentially by getting his P60 form:

 

(1) legalised by the FCDO's Legalisation Office in the UK; then

 

(2) stamped by the Royal Thai Embassy in London; and finally

 

(3) approved by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok.

 

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

@merijn is perfectly correct. Legalisation of any official UK document, such as the P60 tax form to which he refers, for use in Thailand is not, unfortunately, a mere matter of someone at the British Embassy in Bangkok simply plonking a stamp on said document. Instead, it involves a cumbersomely bureacratic and time-consuming process as spelt out in considerable detail in the following link:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/documents-for-british-people-abroad#getting-uk-documents-legalised-and-certified

 

In practice this essentially means him having to comply with these 3 steps sequentially by getting his P60 form:

 

(1) legalised by the FCDO's Legalisation Office in the UK; then

 

(2) stamped at the Royal Thai Embassy in London; then

 

(3) approved by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok.

 

Not forgetting that the taxpayer will also need to have his passport ID certified by the British Embassy, for presentation to the MoFA. 

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Not forgetting that the taxpayer will also need to have his passport ID certified by the British Embassy, for presentation to the MoFA. 

 

In any event it's not clear to me what benefit @merijn would derive from obtaining a legalised version of a P60 certificate - quite apart from the fact that the procedures he would need to comply with in order to achieve this end would IMHO be tantamount to using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The amount of tax he pays to HMRC on his UK-generated income has little bearing on whether said income is deemed assessable in the TRD context. And, rather than leaving things until after obtaining a TIN, he would IMHO be far better off determining sooner rather than later whether he would be liable to tax here in Thailand by reference to the UK/Thailand DTA*. In short, except in the case of income earned before 1 January 2024 regardless of its source, the chances are that he would be, unless he is in receipt of a UK government occupational pension (Civil Service, local authority, military, police, NHS, etc).

 

* https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf