Investment Logic Of Foreigners In Thailand

[mellow1]

Good question. I've wondered this myself for many years. It seems like the first thing, the very first thing, that comes out of the mouth of any stupid farang who gets involved with a Thai is that they're going to buy a small plot of land or condo in Thailand. What fools. Thailand does not welcome foreigners to start with, look at how this website is so popular, you need a huge resource just to figure out how to get legal residence in a country where you have a legal marriage! I have been married nearly 12 years now, with kids all born outside of Thailand (fortunately easy to get Thai passports for them) but as for me--not allowed more than 90 days visa. What an insult! People should be protesting this at the Thai consulates overseas, I have a mind to do that someday in fact. A friend of mine said he comes from Taiwan and the Taiwanese government is also very unfair to people who marry foreigners, not giving them residence in Taiwan. He said there have been some street protests on this fact.

In the meantime my wife can enjoy full right of employment and permanent residence in my country with a 10 year extension. Very easy for her. What Thailand does is not fair at all. As a matter of principle I will never buy land or invest there.

Back to your original topic. I know a guy who worked in Iraq as a private security contractor for nearly 2 years. Lost some of his hearing, came home totally shell-shocked from living in hel_l 2 years. Fortunately he made good money. I asked him if he has enough saved up, he says he and his wife used the money to buy land in Thailand. <deleted> is it too hard to find a place to rent there for your allowed 30 day stay?

You should checkout the websites on how to become a legal resident of the US when you're legally married. Thailand visa regulations are simplistic compared to the US.

"Thailand does not welcome foreigners". Far from it - you can step off the plain and get a 30 day visa at the airport. If you're married to a Thai or have financial resources, it's easy to get a 1 year visa. I know US immigration is not even close to as accommodating.

Did your wife receive a 10 year extension upon her arrival? My bet is she was given a short term visa which was extended after submitting an application and numerous documents. The process probably took a few months and wasn't easy.

Why aren't people protesting this at he US consulates overseas? Probably because most US citizens don't have an issue with it.

I got married 12 1/2 years ago here in Thailand.I went to US Immigration in Bangkok(at the time located in a high rise just down the road and close to the US Embassy)filled out all the necessary paperwork,by myself.I photocopied all the paperwork,before submitting it.When I got back to the states,I re-submitted all the paperwork,along with PROOf of assets,job,home,insurance,Etc.. showing that I can support my wife,and that she will not become a burden to the state or the country. 4 months later my wife arrived in the USA.She was issued a green card,she then got a Social Security number, a drivers license.She also got a Tutor,a lady who actually came to our house twice a week to teach her to read and write for free and I can't remember for how many years.She could of also have gotten a lot of other free education had she wanted.

How does this compare with Thailand?How is it easier than this for Expats in the LOS.Have you done this.Do you even know what you are talking about.My wife and I both wish it was this easy here.My wife who is Thai, is fed up with all the various road blocks,hurdles,and hoops,one has to jump through to get anything done here,not only for Thais but for me, being an Expat.After living in the USA, and then having returned here for the last 5 years,she does not like the differences that she sees.

[siamamerican]

Wasn't Thai bashing highdiver, merely pointing out facts that you obviously have no rebuttal against.

What about the thousands of foreigners married to Thais with families or the thousands of retirees who have made the decision to emigrate to Thailand permanently? I'm pretty sure they would be interested in becoming Thai citizens given the choice.

But therein is the crux, they don't have the choice, and that's why comparisons with the US, a country that readily accepts Thais as citizens are nonsensical and merely highlight the fallacy of your argument.

Do you even remember my post or are you only interested in arguing?

Many Thais would love to live in America, but for most, it is only a pipe dream. I didn't know it was impossible for an ex-pat to become a Thai citizen. I thought it was just very difficult. I wonder how many Thais would be able to become US citizens if they chose. Very few would qualify.

[siamamerican]

Good question. I've wondered this myself for many years. It seems like the first thing, the very first thing, that comes out of the mouth of any stupid farang who gets involved with a Thai is that they're going to buy a small plot of land or condo in Thailand. What fools. Thailand does not welcome foreigners to start with, look at how this website is so popular, you need a huge resource just to figure out how to get legal residence in a country where you have a legal marriage! I have been married nearly 12 years now, with kids all born outside of Thailand (fortunately easy to get Thai passports for them) but as for me--not allowed more than 90 days visa. What an insult! People should be protesting this at the Thai consulates overseas, I have a mind to do that someday in fact. A friend of mine said he comes from Taiwan and the Taiwanese government is also very unfair to people who marry foreigners, not giving them residence in Taiwan. He said there have been some street protests on this fact.

In the meantime my wife can enjoy full right of employment and permanent residence in my country with a 10 year extension. Very easy for her. What Thailand does is not fair at all. As a matter of principle I will never buy land or invest there.

Back to your original topic. I know a guy who worked in Iraq as a private security contractor for nearly 2 years. Lost some of his hearing, came home totally shell-shocked from living in hel_l 2 years. Fortunately he made good money. I asked him if he has enough saved up, he says he and his wife used the money to buy land in Thailand. <deleted> is it too hard to find a place to rent there for your allowed 30 day stay?

You should checkout the websites on how to become a legal resident of the US when you're legally married. Thailand visa regulations are simplistic compared to the US.

"Thailand does not welcome foreigners". Far from it - you can step off the plain and get a 30 day visa at the airport. If you're married to a Thai or have financial resources, it's easy to get a 1 year visa. I know US immigration is not even close to as accommodating.

Did your wife receive a 10 year extension upon her arrival? My bet is she was given a short term visa which was extended after submitting an application and numerous documents. The process probably took a few months and wasn't easy.

Why aren't people protesting this at he US consulates overseas? Probably because most US citizens don't have an issue with it.

I got married 12 1/2 years ago here in Thailand.I went to US Immigration in Bangkok(at the time located in a high rise just down the road and close to the US Embassy)filled out all the necessary paperwork,by myself.I photocopied all the paperwork,before submitting it.When I got back to the states,I re-submitted all the paperwork,along with PROOf of assets,job,home,insurance,Etc.. showing that I can support my wife,and that she will not become a burden to the state or the country. 4 months later my wife arrived in the USA.She was issued a green card,she then got a Social Security number, a drivers license.She also got a Tutor,a lady who actually came to our house twice a week to teach her to read and write for free and I can't remember for how many years.She could of also have gotten a lot of other free education had she wanted.

How does this compare with Thailand?How is it easier than this for Expats in the LOS.Have you done this.Do you even know what you are talking about.My wife and I both wish it was this easy here.My wife who is Thai, is fed up with all the various road blocks,hurdles,and hoops,one has to jump through to get anything done here,not only for Thais but for me, being an Expat.After living in the USA, and then having returned here for the last 5 years,she does not like the differences that she sees.

Been married for five years and went through the same process you went through. I moved a couple times during the process which definitely made it more difficult. Like I stated before, I have no issue with US immigration.

Have you applied for Thai citizenship? If so, did you need to show that you were financially secure and wait for 4 years like the US. I assume it is difficult process, as it should be.

I think I just walked into a hornets nest. I felt the post I was originally replying to, was wrong in his assessment of Thai immigration in regards to welcoming foreigners. It is difficult to become a citizen in most countries. Thailand has made it easy for ex-pats of all sorts to live in Thailand. Why do so many criminals hide in Thailand? The visa rules are very accommodating.

[siamamerican]

Of course I read your post and you were comparing apples and oranges - that is comparing Americans getting tourist visas with ease to come to Thailand yet highlighting the difficulties of Thais getting citizenship of the US!

And to clarify, getting Thai citizenship is nearly impossible if you really wish to nitpick.

I would nitpick, but I can't make sense of your post. Why is it impossible? Have you applied?

[Heng]

Of course it's apples and oranges. We're talking about completely different countries!

[siamamerican]

Of course I read your post and you were comparing apples and oranges - that is comparing Americans getting tourist visas with ease to come to Thailand yet highlighting the difficulties of Thais getting citizenship of the US!

And to clarify, getting Thai citizenship is nearly impossible if you really wish to nitpick.

I would nitpick, but I can't make sense of your post. Why is it impossible? Have you applied?

It's practically impossible to obtain Thai citizenship. The process is well documented on here so do your research.

If you don't know how difficult it is in Thailand please find out then we can continue this discussion.

However you were trying to mislead in your previous post by comparing getting an American visitor's visa to Thailand with a Thai getting citizenship in the US.

Hope that clarifies.

I'll answer for you. You haven't applied and have no idea. Take a couple deep breaths and things might start to make sense. I never stated the process was easy. I did state that becoming a US citizen was extremely difficult. Your silly reply was based on the number of Thais that are US citizens. This was proof that it is easier than becoming a Thai citizen. It's a matter of numbers. More Thais have applied for US citizenship, than the reverse. To make it easier for you ( it seems you're cook from other posts ). If you add more eggs to an omelette, you have a bigger omelette. Thailand lacks the eggs.

As Heng and yourself stated, it's apples to oranges. It's hard to make a comparison, but I know from personal experience that becoming a US citizen is difficult for all and impossible for most.

[dog412]

does being granted Thai citizenship permit you to own land? to vote? to run for political office? just some questions.l

[A_Traveller]

does being granted Thai citizenship permit you to own land? to vote? to run for political office? just some questions.l

I believe yes to the first two, not sure about the third, but probably. Note voting requires citizenship of 5 years.

Regards

[sukanyacondo]

It is pouring down in Isaan and the rice farmers like it. And while it is doing that I got together with a friend about something that just boggles our little brains. Btw this thought has not come up in between a few beers and therefore I look forward to serious discussions and answers.

Why the hel_l so many Falangs with no legal rights to property (except the company route) come over here, buy land and house, a car or even a small business, and all this in the name of their darlings with the premises that one day all that investment may never pay off, be lost or even disappear.

On the other hand, we also ask ourselves what is it really, that again the same guy would act differently in his own country, unless he wants or needs to cover his ass(ets) from whatever circumstances.

Are Thai partners really that more trustworthy than their Western counterparts?

People are generally the same the world over, I came and yes I am buying and will build etc etc because if i didnt whats the point in having a relationship without trying to put down some roots for the future and offer up some security to your wife. I am fully aware I may lose the lot on the other hand like many people here who keep quiet and i suspect a big majority I will live very happily.

So I have done it for "our" future prospects I am sure if my wife had the money she would do the same in fact I know she is trying to sell her own house and land to help "us".

[siamamerican]

Elmer Fudd,

Wow, I think you may have some anger issues. How do those blinders fit. Not going to waste my time replying to your email.

[torrenova]

I am planning for my missus to buy a house in her name with some caveats but under mortgage and my loss will be the downpayment. I have to live somewhere and the mortgage payment will be roughly equivalent to the mortgage payment. I have a daughter with her and that will provide some long term security for the baby. My main concern is that the house, cash and other assets are not frittered away if I die early and leave my daughter with no chance of a decent education and upbringing. thus, there will never be a one off payment made and certain bills will be settled directly and not via cash to be misappropriated.

As to the question about other countries as opposed to Thailand then I certainly agree. If I was not attached, I would be looking outside of Thailand but still in SE Asia. I do not like what has happened here in the last few years and after the assistance Thailand received after the Tsunami I think it is a very poor show of thanks to the rest of the world.

[tt61]

My reasons for not buying a house is simply my strong urge to remain a butterfly man. I cannot imagine buying a house in a wife's name, thus being forced to live out my days with her just to protect my investment. Been outside of my country for many many years and like a car that's getting old I must change gf when she's closing in on 30..Sounds harsh but for me it's the best way to stay young in body and mind.

I'm sure many would consider me the lowest of lowlifes for having this attitude but it's taken me this far without too many problems. And I've always got a nice young honey by my side to cheer me up.

[torrenova]

Guess I'm just the sort of guy who would rather have some stability in an unstable world.

[Sir Burr]

Elmer Fudd,

Wow, I think you may have some anger issues. How do those blinders fit. Not going to waste my time replying to your email.**

**Translation

I am unable to refute your argument, I've lost but don't want to admit it.

[englishoak]

**Translation

I am unable to refute your argument, I've lost but don't want to admit it.

yup

[siamamerican]

Elmer Fudd,

Wow, I think you may have some anger issues. How do those blinders fit. Not going to waste my time replying to your email.**

**Translation

I am unable to refute your argument, I've lost but don't want to admit it.

OK, I’ll waste my time, but only with the 1st four arguments Elmer made.

1st Quote:

QUOTE

My statrement: I'll answer for you. You haven't applied and have no idea

Have I missed something here? I certainly have an idea as I've already told you. As I have already informed you the information about how difficult it is is well documented, both here, from other websites, from people who have tried and from the Thai Government itself. You were the one asking me because you obviously don't know!

How do you know I haven't applied anyway?

Answer: I asked you specifically in an earlier post if you had applied. You did respond, but didn’t answer the question. Hence my assumption, which seems to be correct from your reply. Never claimed it was not difficult( actually stated that I assumed it was )

2nd Quote: QUOTE

My statement: Your silly reply was based on the number of Thais that are US citizens. This was proof that it is easier than becoming a Thai citizen.

Of course it is proof. Especially since there are so many Westerners living in Thailand. Don't you think a large proportion of them might want to apply for Thai citizenship? They don't have the choice though.

Answer: I don’t know what proportion. My Farang friends in Thailand have no intention or want to become a Thai citizen. I can only assume most ex-pats are comfortable not being a citizen. I could be wrong. I can guarantee though that more Thais have applied for US citizenship, which is my point. If many more apply then most likely more will become citizens.

3rd Quote:

QUOTE

My statement:More Thais have applied for US citizenship, than the reverse.

Probably, but that still doesn't explain the disparity between the hundreds of thousands of Thais now living as citizens in the US yet the small handfull of Americans who have done the opposite.

One of the reasons so few foreigners apply for Thai citizenship is because there's no point. It really is that difficult.

There is more chance of a Thai becoming a US citizen than an American becoming Thai.

You assume no Westerners would want Thai citizenship. Is being Thai all that bad?

Answer: Why doesn’t it explain it. Many more Thais apply for US citizenship compared to the small handful of Americans that apply for Thai citizenship. Also, many of the Thais have been in the US for over 30 years. Times change and so do US immigration laws.

4th Quote:

QUOTE

My statement: it seems you're cook from other posts

Nope, wrong again. I am a qualified chef though, and used to work in the catering trade over a decade ago.

Answer: I didn’t know that chefs didn’t cook. Congrats on being a qualified Chef that doesn’t cook.

[Heng]

Note to renters... before signing your rental contract, you should update the clause that says your landlord only needs 30 days notice to retake possession of his/her property should he/she decide to sell the property. Perhaps up it to 60 or 90 days to give you time to move all of your worldly possessions -minus anything permanently attached to the property of course-. It doesn't matter if you have a 1 year or 30 year contract. Anyone can be Chuwit/Soi 10 swept off rented property if you are still on the property (and legally trespassing even with a "legal" lease).

That, IMO is the main drawback of renting. None of my tenants (few dozen Thais and foreigners) have ever asked to revise that clause, sometimes I wonder if they are even reading before signing. So far it hasn't been an issue because we generally never sell property... but it has been a problem for more than a few folks out there when the landlord has gotten an incredible offer on a property (city cutting a road through, major retailer/developer purchasing the property, etc.).

[sriracha john]

I am planning for my missus to buy a house in her name with some caveats but under mortgage and my loss will be the downpayment. I have to live somewhere and the mortgage payment will be roughly equivalent to the mortgage payment. I have a daughter with her and that will provide some long term security for the baby. My main concern is that the house, cash and other assets are not frittered away if I die early and leave my daughter with no chance of a decent education and upbringing. thus, there will never be a one off payment made and certain bills will be settled directly and not via cash to be misappropriated.

As to the question about other countries as opposed to Thailand then I certainly agree. If I was not attached, I would be looking outside of Thailand but still in SE Asia. I do not like what has happened here in the last few years and after the assistance Thailand received after the Tsunami I think it is a very poor show of thanks to the rest of the world.

Shouldn't you expect the mortgage payment to be roughly equivalent to the mortgage payment???? :D

(sorry, couldn't resist)

--------------------------------

Turning serious now, good luck to you and your family.

You've made a completely reasonable decision based on your family's situation.

Edited August 15, 2007 by sriracha john

[Scott]

I enjoy my life in Thailand very much (most of the time), but I am not Thai, I am not accepted as Thai--although I have acceptance as a foreigner living in Thailand. Unless I come across a REALLY lot of money, I would never buy a house or condo in the country.

The gov't seems to like my status as a foreigner with a work permit living here--and I think I'll take my cue from that. Don't think they want me to set up shop here.

I consider myself lucky. I have this country, which is welcoming enough and I have my own, should things turn sour here! That's enough for me.

Invest? -- no thank you.

Try to get around the rules or laws? -- no thank you.