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Trump on Immigration: "We need a lot of people coming in."

John Drake

By John Drake
in Political Soapbox

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SenorTashi Advanced Member

SenorTashi

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The amount of money that I give to charity and the poor relative to tight wad grinches like Trump and Musk, is absolutely enormous, relative to our respective wealth. 

 

Being a tightwad is not a quality. It is a human deficiency. 

Personally I find it ridiculous when people say 'this guy's rich so he should help all the poor people'

Poor people don't even help themselves. They mostly just sit around drinking and gambling and making babies they can't afford.

Only a fool would keep throwing money at them.

 

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John Drake
John Drake

He does what Elon Musk tells him to do. 

Mavideol
Mavideol

but he wanted /wants to expel ALL immigrants and close the borders   🤫🤔

MalcolmB
MalcolmB

Voting for Trump once put their intelligence in doubt. The second time proved it.   Dumb as rocks

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Yellowtail Star Member

Yellowtail

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SenorTashi said:

Personally I find it ridiculous when people say 'this guy's rich so he should help all the poor people'

Poor people don't even help themselves. They mostly just sit around drinking and gambling and making babies they can't afford.

Only a fool would keep throwing money at them.

 

Many poor people do help themselves. That said, the left's position is typically that someone with a business that employs and pays people is an evil, greedy, capitalist exploiter, but anyone that confiscates other people's money and gives it away to the "poor" is a hero. 

 

The left sees Biden as a hero for taking money from taxpayers that paid their loans off and giving it to the "poor" college graduates that chose to spend their money on things other than paying off their student loan. 

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placeholder Star Member

placeholder

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So you agree with Trump and Musk, that that it needs changing. 

I think only the rich would suffer economic "problems". I think the poor would benefit. 

 

Do you not think that if the fertility rate is the problem, would addressing the fertility rate not make more sense? 

 

 

They're not being building them for the homeless. 

Wealth countries have tried all sorts of measures to halt the decline in fertility. While France has been the most successful largely because of its excellent (and expensive) maternity and post maternity care, even there the rate is too low. What's more, even if a program defied the odds and was successful, you're going to have to wait almost 20 years for that even to begin to make a difference.

 

So, in your view of American, either you're rich or homeless? That's ridiculous.

SenorTashi Advanced Member

SenorTashi

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Many poor people do help themselves. That said, the left's position is typically that someone with a business that employs and pays people is an evil, greedy, capitalist exploiter, but anyone that confiscates other people's money and gives it away to the "poor" is a hero. 

 

The left sees Biden as a hero for taking money from taxpayers that paid their loans off and giving it to the "poor" college graduates that chose to spend their money on things other than paying off their student loan. 

Students spending their grants on getting high in the West is very different to people in slums having 10 kids,

who die of starvation or disease because their parents are meth addicts and drunks.

 

I keep seeing people saying Musk should use his money to help 'the world' 

They don't specify what he should do with it. Just that he has too much so he should share it out.

I think that's a very immature mentality.

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Yellowtail Star Member

Yellowtail

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Wealth countries have tried all sorts of measures to halt the decline in fertility. While France has been the most successful largely because of its excellent (and expensive) maternity and post maternity care, even there the rate is too low. What's more, even if a program defied the odds and was successful, you're going to have to wait almost 20 years for that even to begin to make a difference.

No, they have not tried "all sorts of measures", they have tried throwing money at it. 

 

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

So, in your view of American, either you're rich or homeless? That's ridiculous.

You said: As for it benefitting the rich...all those houses being built in texas and elsewhere aren't being built only for rich people.

 

I responded with: They're not being building them for the homeless.

 

How do you get from that to: So, in your view of American, either you're rich or homeless? That's ridiculous

 

Again, I understand how illegal immigration juices the economy and benefits the rich, and how it hurts the poor. Can you explain how it benefits the poor? 

placeholder Star Member

placeholder

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, they have not tried "all sorts of measures", they have tried throwing money at it. 

 

You said: As for it benefitting the rich...all those houses being built in texas and elsewhere aren't being built only for rich people.

Thanks for the throwing money at it cliche. You expect government programs to cost nothing? You think these governments don't want to solve this problem? Have you got a free solution to offer? Or even a very low cost one?

placeholder Star Member

placeholder

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, they have not tried "all sorts of measures", they have tried throwing money at it. 

 

You said: As for it benefitting the rich...all those houses being built in texas and elsewhere aren't being built only for rich people.

 

I responded with: They're not being building them for the homeless.

 

How do you get from that to: So, in your view of American, either you're rich or homeless? That's ridiculous

 

Again, I understand how illegal immigration juices the economy and benefits the rich, and how it hurts the poor. Can you explain how it benefits the poor? 

You're the one who frame the issue as a dichotomy: rich versus poor. Housing is also being built for the middle class.

As for how illegal immigration benefits the poor? If wages are lower, that results in lower prices. Do you think poor people benefit from lower prices or not?

Yellowtail Star Member

Yellowtail

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thanks for the throwing money at it cliche. You expect government programs to cost nothing? You think these governments don't want to solve this problem? Have you got a free solution to offer? Or even a very low cost one?

I understand that most things cost money. Throwing money at a problem, is not the same as spending money to solve a problem, or better, to first spend money to determine what the problem is. 

 

Government programs are typically based on "one stage thinking". For example: 

 

Problem: Childcare is too expensive.

Solution: Give money to subsidize childcare. 

Result: Price of childcare goes up. 

 

Yellowtail Star Member

Yellowtail

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You're the one who frame the issue as a dichotomy: rich versus poor. Housing is also being built for the middle class.

As for how illegal immigration benefits the poor? If wages are lower, that results in lower prices. Do you think poor people benefit from lower prices or not?

 

Your claim: "If wages are lower, that results in lower prices."

My response: Yes, this is generally the case. 

 

Your question: "Do you think poor people benefit from lower prices or not?"

My response: Yes, it is generally the case that lower prices benefit all consumers, including the poor. 

 

This is a perfect example of "one stage thinking". We lower prices by allowing illegal immigration to drive down wages. No one seems to care what prices are lowered, or that it's the poor's wages that are driven down to facilitate lower prices. Illegal aliens aren't taking jobs from doctors, lawyers, engineers, autoworkers, teachers, nurses or most any middle/upper middleclass jobs. They are taking jobs from the working poor (to drive down wages). and taking benefits from the subsidized poor. 

 

The poor generally do not benefit from cheaper maids, gardeners, nannies, hotel rooms, and any number of other things. The poor do benefit from lower food and energy prices, and illegal immigration has little to do with energy prices, so that pretty much leaves food, and then only food that is labor intense. 

 

Illegal aliens drive up housing costs, overstress social programs and drive up the cost of public schools while at the same time driving the quality of education down.  

 

Do you disagree with anything I've said? 

 

 

 

mikebike Platinum Member

mikebike

Posted
Posted
On 1/1/2025 at 3:04 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

B0llocks.   Only ILLEGAL immigrants was what he was referring to!

Like the LEGAL immigrants in Springfield he is/was eager to demonize and deport. Cummon man, you need to do better.

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mrwebb8825 Gold Member

mrwebb8825

Posted
Posted
On 1/1/2025 at 12:22 AM, Mavideol said:

but he wanted /wants to expel ALL immigrants and close the borders   🤫🤔

but he wanted /wants to expel ALL ILLEGAL/CRIMINAL immigrants and close the borders

 

There, fixed it for you :wai:

Rampant Rabbit Platinum Member

Rampant Rabbit

Posted
Posted
On 1/1/2025 at 3:04 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

B0llocks.   Only ILLEGAL immigrants was what he was referring to!

bugga  me i never thought  Id  agree with you on anything.............hny

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placeholder Star Member

placeholder

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

and it appears Carter had the last laugh

Trump Loses It Over Flags Flying Half-Staff At His Inauguration

https://au.yahoo.com/news/trump-loses-over-flags-flying-204638805.html

 

From the article:

"He also wrongly asserted Friday that the flags would be flown at half-staff “for the first time ever during an Inauguration of a future President.” In 1972, President Richard Nixon took the oath of office while flags were flown at half-staff in memoriam of President Harry Truman."

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Liverpool Lou Star Member

Liverpool Lou

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:
On 1/1/2025 at 3:04 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

B0llocks.   Only ILLEGAL immigrants was what he was referring to!

bugga  me i never thought  Id  agree with you on anything.............hny

Most people come to their senses eventually!

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Liverpool Lou Star Member

Liverpool Lou

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2025 at 3:31 PM, mikebike said:
On 1/1/2025 at 3:04 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

B0llocks.   Only ILLEGAL immigrants was what he was referring to!

Like the LEGAL immigrants in Springfield he is/was eager to demonize and deport. Cummon man, you need to do better.

You really think that could/would happen?  C'mon pal, you need to do better.

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johnnybangkok Gold Member

johnnybangkok

Posted
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Posted
On 1/3/2025 at 9:15 AM, SenorTashi said:

I keep seeing people saying Musk should use his money to help 'the world' 

They don't specify what he should do with it. Just that he has too much so he should share it out.

I think that's a very immature mentality.

Ever heard of a chap called Bill Gates? Through the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation he has donated vast amounts of his own personal wealth for many worthy causes including the eradication of malaria. He's had no problem knowing 'what to do' with his vast wealth as have many of these billionaires:- 

 

Warren Buffett - $56.7 billion.

George Soros - $21 billion

Michael Bloomberg - $17.4 billion

MacKenzie Scott - $16.58 billion 

Jim and Marilyn Simons - $6.03 billion.  

Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan - $4.5 billion

Jeff Bezos - $3.33 billion

 

https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/billionaires-who-give-away-most-money-forbes

 

Musk on the other hand waxes lyrical about donations and because of bad press due to his lack of charitable donations eventually set up The Musk Foundation in 2021. Musk donated approximately $5.7 billion worth of Tesla shares to the foundation. However, new tax filings show that the Musk Foundation fell $421 million short of the amount it was required to give away in 2023 and has yet to reveal whether it's made up the shortfall in 2024   https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/politics/musk-foundation-taxes-donations.html.

 

So yeah, there are plenty of things he could do to help humanity with his vast wealth, he just choses egotistical space travel, buying social media platforms and using his 'voice' to interfere in everyone's politics with a VERY right wing agenda.

 

 

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Yellowtail Star Member

Yellowtail

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Ever heard of a chap called Bill Gates? Through the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation he has donated vast amounts of his own personal wealth for many worthy causes including the eradication of malaria. He's had no problem knowing 'what to do' with his vast wealth as have many of these billionaires:- 

 

Warren Buffett - $56.7 billion.

George Soros - $21 billion

Michael Bloomberg - $17.4 billion

MacKenzie Scott - $16.58 billion 

Jim and Marilyn Simons - $6.03 billion.  

Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan - $4.5 billion

Jeff Bezos - $3.33 billion

 

https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/billionaires-who-give-away-most-money-forbes

 

Musk on the other hand waxes lyrical about donations and because of bad press due to his lack of charitable donations eventually set up The Musk Foundation in 2021. Musk donated approximately $5.7 billion worth of Tesla shares to the foundation. However, new tax filings show that the Musk Foundation fell $421 million short of the amount it was required to give away in 2023 and has yet to reveal whether it's made up the shortfall in 2024   https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/politics/musk-foundation-taxes-donations.html.

 

So yeah, there are plenty of things he could do to help humanity with his vast wealth, he just choses egotistical space travel, buying social media platforms and using his 'voice' to interfere in everyone's politics with a VERY right wing agenda.

 

 

More Kool-Ade?

kevozman1 Silver Member

kevozman1

Posted
Posted

The West is continuing on the slow decline that has been happening for decades and this time there isn't another region per se to flock to. For most the only good solution will be going into the sticks somewhere you're content. If you're on the grid during the rest of this century then you will just be flooded with South Asians and Sub Saharans and you will not want to stick around. One of the only advantages I have over most others is it happened to me decades ago so I know what's up and not to stick around.

kevozman1 Silver Member

kevozman1

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2025 at 2:15 AM, SenorTashi said:

Students spending their grants on getting high in the West is very different to people in slums having 10 kids,

who die of starvation or disease because their parents are meth addicts and drunks.

 

I keep seeing people saying Musk should use his money to help 'the world' 

They don't specify what he should do with it. Just that he has too much so he should share it out.

I think that's a very immature mentality.

 

Yes that rhetoric doesn't work on me. Most of these non-European groups have even higher levels of dysfunction. Thais are one of the only groups outside of Europe I take seriously because I see gratitude, consideration and having respect for others. They create places that are comfortable to live in. I will give props where it's due. Some of these other groups you don't want to live around, and I don't care about the minority they brain drain to Europe from from craphole South Asian or Sub Saharan dumps, that's not a realistic depiction of those people or the societies they are from and it's only a matter of time before your residence starts resembling theirs.

johnnybangkok Gold Member

johnnybangkok

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

More Kool-Ade?

Firstly its 'Kool-Aid' - but more importantly, you are more than welcome to refute any of the facts and figures I posted with your own dissenting facts and figures but knowing how facts are like holy water to a vampire for you MAGA's, I'll not hold my breath. 

AndreasHG Advanced Member

AndreasHG

Posted
Posted
On 1/1/2025 at 3:40 PM, Gobbler said:

We need skilled immigrants

 

It's fascinating how people can reduce a complex issue to a simplistic slogan.

 

It's true: we need more skilled immigrants. But then we also need unskilled immigrants to cater their needs.

 

Hosting more skilled immigrants calls for more unskilled ones, required to cook their burgers, serve them in restaurants and bars, cook their favorite ethnic food, pick the fruits and vegetables they eat, dry clean their clothes, and also more criminals to sell them the cocaine they consume, provide the sex-services they occasionally need, etc.

 

The alternative is for American-born to perform the unskilled jobs needed to support the high standard of living of skilled immigrants. 

At present however the opposite is usually true: Americans more often than not perform skilled, high-paying jobs, while unskilled, low-paying jobs are left to unskilled immigrants.

 

 

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