Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[anrcaccount]

58 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

n my understanding, with the right construct, it's possible to gift EITHER to an overseas account of your wife (and she subsequently remits that Thailand, as you have stated), or directly to her Thai account, with zero Thai tax implications for the giftor. 

 

Yes, but the right construct would be to gift only non-assessable funds to her Thai account. 

 

Otherwise, you could logically claim that the 2 million of current year income remitted directly to a car dealership account to purchase a vehicle is not taxable as remitted income as it technically never went into your account.

 

Different situation, this isn't a gift (unless it's buying your wife that car, in which case it is a gift!) .

 

Although, I await with glee reports of the first people trying to pay tax on top on their foreign funds remitted to purchase vehicles and real estate in Thailand, don't worry, you will read about it in the media, I am sure!!!

 

A good discussion on gifting that you originated occurred, here:

 

 

 

Others have different advice re: being able to send gifts directly to a Thai account. Anyway, the overseas sending is valid IMO. 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

16 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Others have different advice re: being able to send gifts directly to a Thai account. Anyway, the overseas sending is valid IMO.

 

I don't want to be the first to find out!

 

I wouldn't expect any problem WISE'ing the wife a thousand bucks every now and then, but if a million-baht transfer shows up in an account linked to a return claiming (joint filing) no salary or income, TRD might take notice.

 

I'd really rather avoid any necessity of arguing with a local tax officer when he/she likely has the law on his/her side that a remittance sent from my account into Thailand into a differently named account is MY remittance, regardless of eventual intended purpose, and I will have to document source of funds.

 

TRD officer can argue, and likely be backed up by actual law, that a remittance of assessable income into my account is taxable, regardless of purpose, and therefore MY remitting to another person is no different, still taxable because I remitted the funds.  That might lead to a charge of tax avoidance.

[garygooner]

19 hours ago, chiang mai said:

If push came to shove and somebody said, "prove it, for the past ten years", could you?

Not sure about the past 10 years.

TRD will probably be more interested in transfers post 2023. 

[MartinBangkok]

Reading all these endless tax discussions makes me just feel sad for all the expats who choose to stay in a country that treats them the way Thailand does.

 

I have outlined this in comments from last year and in 2023. (see below for a few of them)

 

How can you accept paying ONE Baht tax to a country which not only gives you zilch in return. Not only that, but discriminates you to a degree you could easily call it something very derogatory.

 

I lived 15 years in Thailand up until 2014. Already pissed off with the countless government mandated discrimination rules: 90 day reporting, reporting to police if you leave your home overnight and to police if you leave your province, triple mandated hospital fees, ten times fees in the judicial system including fines, 10 times fees in government owned attractions, farang pricing in hotels, groce discrimination in the property market. Not to mention the intrusive and degrading treatment of expats married to a Thai, and hostile treatment by immigration, I decided enough was enough.

 

Now I am in another SEA country (I managed to stay only 179 days in Thailand in 2024) What an eye opener. Just feel sorry for you the guys who are cemented in Thailand without means or energy or will to get out.

 

My 5 cents.

 

 

 

 

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

How can you accept paying ONE Baht tax to a country which not only gives you zilch in return. Not only that, but discriminates you to a degree you could easily call it something very derogatory.

Oh, barf burgers. I've never felt discriminated against. Did I ever have to pay double to enter a Thai national park? Dunno. But if I did, it was well less than entering Yosemite Park in the US. That I pay more than the ordinary Thai citizen -- is kinda like I pay more as a rich American in Medicare premiums, than an ordinary American ('cause I'm richer, as determined by my tax return). Progressive taxation brackets explains the whole social situation.

 

2 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

triple mandated hospital fees, ten times fees in the judicial system including fines, 10 times fees in government owned attractions, farang pricing in hotels, groce discrimination in the property market. Not to mention the intrusive and degrading treatment of expats married to a Thai, and hostile treatment by immigration, I decided enough was enough.

Probably good you're gone. You'd certainly be hard to live next door to, being so paranoid about your existence in Thailand.

 

You started out about Thai taxation, and that you had to pay it. Not sure where you're from -- but, yeah, maybe if from an EU country, you now have to pay someone (Thailand), when otherwise you lived tax free in the world. Welcome to the 21st century -- where your taxes are now in the country whose potholes you now pay to fix. For us Yanks, no change in our total tax picture (more to Thailand, less to the US) -- except for those few living on long term cap gains. Thus, for most Yanks, the new tax situation is a non player.

2 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Now I am in another SEA country (I managed to stay only 179 days in Thailand in 2024) What an eye opener.

 

No taxes, no discrimination, no Thai-like irritants. Care to say where you now live?

 

Anyway, glad you're now happy, and were flexible enough to leave Thailand. For many of us here, we're settled in, burned our bridges to home country, and really have no perception of where else to move. Fortunately, for most of us, our worldwide total tax bill situation hasn't changed; we don't worry about paying 200 vice 100 baht to enter a park; and the irritants you mention (well over exaggerated) are well overcome by the hospitality of the Thai people.

[MartinBangkok]

10 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Oh, barf burgers. I've never felt discriminated against. Did I ever have to pay double to enter a Thai national park? Dunno. But if I did, it was well less than entering Yosemite Park in the US. That I pay more than the ordinary Thai citizen -- is kinda like I pay more as a rich American in Medicare premiums, than an ordinary American ('cause I'm richer, as determined by my tax return). Progressive taxation brackets explains the whole social situation.

 

Probably good you're gone. You'd certainly be hard to live next door to, being so paranoid about your existence in Thailand.

 

You started out about Thai taxation, and that you had to pay it. Not sure where you're from -- but, yeah, maybe if from an EU country, you now have to pay someone (Thailand), when otherwise you lived tax free in the world. Welcome to the 21st century -- where your taxes are now in the country whose potholes you now pay to fix. For us Yanks, no change in our total tax picture (more to Thailand, less to the US) -- except for those few living on long term cap gains. Thus, for most Yanks, the new tax situation is a non player.

 

No taxes, no discrimination, no Thai-like irritants. Care to say where you now live?

 

Anyway, glad you're now happy, and were flexible enough to leave Thailand. For many of us here, we're settled in, burned our bridges to home country, and really have no perception of where else to move. Fortunately, for most of us, our worldwide total tax bill situation hasn't changed; we don't worry about paying 200 vice 100 baht to enter a park; and the irritants you mention are well overcome by the hospitality of the Thai people.

The hospitality of the Thai people? Man, you need to get around.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

The hospitality of the Thai people? Man, you need to get around.

Jim is absolutely correct, perhaps you should get outside the farang ghetto's and the tourist zones!

[RocketDog]

On 1/4/2025 at 12:14 PM, Jingthing said:

My current understanding which may of course be wrong is that Thailand has a self declaration system and income like that is not needed to be declared at all.

In other words, if all of your remitted income was from Social Security and bank savings before 2024, there would be no need to get a TIN and no need to file. 

Of course if they see your transfers and audit you need to be prepared at that time to prove you were correct not have a TIN or file.

Your last statement is absolutely correct. I won't file unless I owe taxes but will be well prepared to defend my decision.

[MartinBangkok]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Jim is absolutely correct, perhaps you should get outside the farang ghetto's and the tourist zones!

I did. To another asian nation. It's a different universe regarding friendliness and respect. Not kidding.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, RocketDog said:

Your last statement is absolutely correct. I won't file unless I owe taxes but will be well prepared to defend my decision.

Well, my strong understanding is that there are situations and not rare ones where it's required to file even if no tax will be due. 

My point was about if you only have EXCLUDED remitted income.

This is really a case where each person needs to look at (likely with expert advise) their own SPECIFIC situation.

One size fits all is not the dealio with this. 

[ronnie50]

My own two-bits - I suspect many staying put in Thailand and figuring out a way to minimize remittances, to minimize taxes owed, like remitting from a savings account in your home country with cash that's been there for many years (this is where having years of printed copies of bank statements come in handy if challenged). But if the TRD go for the jugular (taxing total global income regardless of remittances), then I suspect many including me will be looking for another place to decamp like @MartinBangkok Even to my home country that has many perks etc., - why should I give it to Thailand?

[NoDisplayName]

16 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

I did. To another asian nation. It's a different universe regarding friendliness and respect. Not kidding.

 

Dude, don't keep us in suspenders!

Where is this paradise?

 

Maybe you could start another thread to discuss it.......would be of interest when planning for possible worldwide taxation.

[MartinBangkok]

28 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Dude, don't keep us in suspenders!

Where is this paradise?

 

Maybe you could start another thread to discuss it.......would be of interest when planning for possible worldwide taxation.

I've tried out three in 2024, Philippines, Malaysia and Cambodia. All three recommended.

[topt]

4 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Different situation, this isn't a gift (unless it's buying your wife that car, in which case it is a gift!) .

 

Although, I await with glee reports of the first people trying to pay tax on top on their foreign funds remitted to purchase vehicles and real estate in Thailand, don't worry, you will read about it in the media, I am sure!!!

 

A good discussion on gifting that you originated occurred, here:

 

 

 

Others have different advice re: being able to send gifts directly to a Thai account. Anyway, the overseas sending is valid IMO. 

 

 

 

 

 

We are just going round in circles again (quelle surprise...) Gifting has been discussed multiple times over the last year and as far as I know @sometimewoodworker is the only person who went and received paid advice regarding it. As such his views make more sense to me then any other posters in the preceding posts to yours.

 

Thanks for posting this link as I had forgotten it was so recent as other discussions were a while back. 

[ronnie50]

While many say 'ah don't be so stupid, so paranoid, etc. nothing to worry about' - and while they may have some justification in the way Thailand often says things then doesn't follow though - my own view is the fact we've been sharing so many thoughts and questions, including those who have significant knowledge on taxation in Thailand, concludes to me that we have been doing exactly what we should have been doing all along - preparing. Whether it happens or not, being forewarned is forearmed. If others want to laugh off or snooze through the last year, and this year, up to them. 

[chiang mai]

I'm guessing that now the holidays are over, TRD offices should be business as usual and that anyone should be able to walk in and get a paper copy of the PND90 tax form, right? I haven't seen an online copy of PND90 available for download, which is slightly ominous. In the back of my mind I'm wondering if they are going to try and steer everyone to the online system, crazy I know but not impossible.

[ronnie50]

For those who haven't seen this before, UOB bank (Thailand) has this basic tax calculator. It seems to insist on a monthly 'salary' in the top field, so I just put in 1.00 baht then in the part it asks for other annual income, I entered the amount in baht that I would probably remit once a year. A bit crude, but could be somewhat informative/helpful. It's only a couple of pages long, quite basic and includes your general deductions. and predicts the total amount of tax owing.

 

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation 

[RocketDog]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well, my strong understanding is that there are situations and not rare ones where it's required to file even if no tax will be due. 

My point was about if you only have EXCLUDED remitted income.

This is really a case where each person needs to look at (likely with expert advise) their own SPECIFIC situation.

One size fits all is not the dealio with this. 

I can bring my usa  social security into Thailand as it is excluded. That's a million thb per year. Sufficient for my needs.

[RocketDog]

14 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

I've tried out three in 2024, Philippines, Malaysia and Cambodia. All three recommended.

Ugh! Been to all three. Never again.

To each his own.

[bkk6060]

14 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

I've tried out three in 2024, Philippines, Malaysia and Cambodia. All three recommended.

Recommend for what?

[ronnie50]

Let's just hope that TRD, BOI and Immigration don't start working together to ensure tax on all global income is assessible and paid to Thailand before renewing O visa extensions for retirement, marraige etc.

 

Even in 'advanced economies' as OECD likes to call them, getting different government ministeries and departments to work together is nearly impossible. So there's some hope there.

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, ronnie50 said:

For those who haven't seen this before, UOB bank (Thailand) has this basic tax calculator. It seems to insist on a monthly 'salary' in the top field, so I just put in 1.00 baht then in the part it asks for other annual income, I entered the amount in baht that I would probably remit once a year. A bit crude, but could be somewhat informative/helpful. It's only a couple of pages long, quite basic and includes your general deductions. and predicts the total amount of tax owing.

 

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation 

 

I could not see any place to enter 'age'. 

 

Still, I found it useful for assessing if any tax on income from money in Thailand Banks/Bonds - and it suggests I have no tax owed for my small Thai income from such. 

 

IMHO that is good in my case, where I did not remit any foreign money into Thailand in 2024 (and even if I did, I believe such should be tax free as some (not all) covered by DTAs, and all should be covered by PAW.161 and also covered by my being on an LTR visa).  In my specific case it supports my assessment that I need not for tax-year-2024 file a Thai tax return for my small Thai income. ... 

 

Like many others I will wait and see how year 2025 turns out.

 

Best wishes to all in your assessments as to whether it is necessary for you to obtain a tax-ID and if necessary to file a tax return.

 

[jwest10]

16 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

My own two-bits - I suspect many staying put in Thailand and figuring out a way to minimize remittances, to minimize taxes owed, like remitting from a savings account in your home country with cash that's been there for many years (this is where having years of printed copies of bank statements come in handy if challenged). But if the TRD go for the jugular (taxing total global income regardless of remittances), then I suspect many including me will be looking for another place to decamp like @MartinBangkok Even to my home country that has many perks etc., - why should I give it to Thailand?

Perks in our own country and they would tax us even more and do for daring to leave in the first place!!!

[jwest10]

7 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I'm guessing that now the holidays are over, TRD offices should be business as usual and that anyone should be able to walk in and get a paper copy of the PND90 tax form, right? I haven't seen an online copy of PND90 available for download, which is slightly ominous. In the back of my mind I'm wondering if they are going to try and steer everyone to the online system, crazy I know but not impossible.

Yes seen this yesterday 4 or 5th January and there are no forms still and forget on line returns you are not allowed to and just the Thias?

[Celsius]

17 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

The hospitality of the Thai people? Man, you need to get around.

 

Probably 10 years in Thailand and can't coint to 10 in Thai

[ronnie50]

8 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Perks in our own country and they would tax us even more and do for daring to leave in the first place!!!

Yeah, there's that.. 😉

[ronnie50]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Recommend for what?

I guess he means 'tax friendly' for expats. TBH, I looked at all three of them before (the government websites and PwC pages on all of them). Philippines still seems possible for tax free, but complicated with many hoops - devil in the detail, Malaysia is not clear whether passive income is taxed (it says flat rate of 30% on foreign residents' income, then it says some income from abroad can be tax free), Cambodia also opaque, mentioning employment is taxable, but is silent on other forms of income for foreigners. Thing is OECD (and the US) is pressuring all countries to adopt a global income taxation on residents in order to close loopholes - and I guess all countries see it in their best interests as it will raise revenues. This is why Portugal and some other formerly 'expat tax friendly' countries are caving in. The three menionted earlier were the last remaining potential places to avoid income tax, but with low confidence of that IMO.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

I can bring my usa  social security into Thailand as it is excluded. That's a million thb per year. Sufficient for my needs.

I agree that in your case you don't need a TIN and you dont need to file.

It seems others do think you would need to.file even though no tax would be due.

In any case it's wise to keep good records of all remittances and the source of them in your case excluded social security. 

That is greatly complicated IF the US account you're sending it from is mixed with money that would not be excluded if remitted such as IRA withdrawals.

[jwest10]

26 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

Yeah, there's that.. 😉

Ronnie50
Yes indeed a friend of mine did just that and a British Citizen and had to pay 2 years more NI contributions, despite paid more than enough and yes 150% surcharge on using the NHS and in other words totally shafted and what with the frozen State pension issue!!!

[The Cyclist]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I agree that in your case you don't need a TIN and you dont need to file.

 

Which is the information that I got last year from the small Revenue Dept Office.

 

This morning I went to bank for annual printout. Took car for its annual inspection and went into the big Revenue Office, which is next door to the testing station.

 

Different info.

 

Where I was told that I do have to file, even though not taxable due to DTA. Nice girl filled in the PND 91 in pencil for me, where the figures need to go.

 

I'll post a photo when I get home

 

I dont think the PND 91 is an updated version, so I wont actually be doing anything until an updated PND 91makes an appearance.

 

She did tell me to file at the small office, rather than coming back out to the big office.

 

Interesting times indeed.