Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[dinga]

1 minute ago, topt said:

I must be misunderstanding something because to me the "Quote" you provided is saying that income from 2023 and remitted in 2024 would be "exempted" but not 2024 income remitted in 2024 - which is what @dinga was saying Expat tax were saying?

I don't understand the relevance of this - probably me missing something?

That makes 2 of us that don't understand.......

 

My understanding of ETT;s advice re. LTR visa holders:

 

1.  If income was earnt overseas in (say) 2023 but remitted to Thailand during 2024  -  No Tax Payable on such remittances

2.  If income was earnt overseas in (say) 2024 and was remitted to Thailand during 2024, such income is subject to Thai Tax and likely needs to be reported in the Tax Return to be lodged by 31 March 2025.

 

  

[topt]

4 minutes ago, dinga said:

That makes 2 of us that don't understand.......

 

My understanding of ETT;s advice re. LTR visa holders:

 

1.  If income was earnt overseas in (say) 2023 but remitted to Thailand during 2024  -  No Tax Payable on such remittances

2.  If income was earnt overseas in (say) 2024 and was remitted to Thailand during 2024, such income is subject to Thai Tax and likely needs to be reported in the Tax Return to be lodged by 31 March 2025.

 

  

Agreed. Unless the presumably English translation of the Thai quotation is wrong.......maybe,possibly..........

I don't have an LTR so no dog in the fight. 

[jwest10]

49 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I respect your skeptical POV.

From my POV, what you are proposing to do would be quite complicated and if there is a choice I would prefer to keep things as simple as possible, yes even if it did subject me to some probably small amount of tax. 

It's also a risky tactic from the POV of a higher likelihood of being subject to an audit. In my opinion, anyway.

You may be right. You may be wrong. I have no idea. I am not qualified to make that judgement.

I still plan to eventually see a Thai tax lawyer that I have in mind and get his opinion when this does become an issue for me (probably not for some time).

By then given he would be dealing with retired expat haven Jomtien he might actually have some insider knowledge and experience about this US retirement account issue.

Sincerely, good luck. 

Expat tax forget it they not at all helpful and only want your money !!!

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Expat tax forget it they not at all helpful and only want your money !!!

Every business wants our money.

Not sure that in itself would disqualify them.

[anchadian]

About an hour ago:

 

 

[oldcpu]

25 minutes ago, topt said:

I must be misunderstanding something because to me the "Quote" you provided is saying that income from 2023 and remitted in 2024 would be "exempted" but not 2024 income remitted in 2024 - which is what @dinga was saying Expat tax were saying?

I don't understand the relevance of this - probably me missing something?

 

Where the Royal Decree states "in the previous year" it refers to the income.   It does not say anything about when the remittance must take place or must not take place.  What was noted is, in my opinion, a wrong interpretation by ExpatTaxThailand.

 

As noted , this has already been debated, there has been no agreement from the different views, so there is likely nothing to be gained by re-opening this debate.  ...

 

IMHO time will tell as to whom is right and whom is wrong.

 

[oldcpu]

26 minutes ago, dinga said:

That makes 2 of us that don't understand.......

 

My understanding of ETT;s advice re. LTR visa holders:

 

1.  If income was earnt overseas in (say) 2023 but remitted to Thailand during 2024  -  No Tax Payable on such remittances

2.  If income was earnt overseas in (say) 2024 and was remitted to Thailand during 2024, such income is subject to Thai Tax and likely needs to be reported in the Tax Return to be lodged by 31 March 2025.

 

  

 

 The Royal Decree does not talk about remittance dates.  It talks of assessable income date.  It simply, at the end of section-5, states 'and brought into Thailand'.  Thinking there is a relevant date for the remittance is IMHO a wrong interpretation of the Royal Decree translation.  Again, I see little point in reopening the debate.

 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It's also a risky tactic from the POV of a higher likelihood of being subject to an audit. In my opinion, anyway.

Actually, if you decide your IRA remittance is not assessable income, then, if you file a Thai tax return -- there's nothing on your Thai tax return to indicate your IRA income. What, exactly, would come into TRD's focus to warrant an audit?

 

No, my argument, I'm sure, would be appreciated in any audit -- and worst case -- you then pay the tax owed, plus interest. But, this revisits the argument -- why even declare it, and pay tax on it -- when the chance that it will be identified for an audit is almost zip?

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Actually, if you decide your IRA remittance is not assessable income, then, if you file a Thai tax return -- there's nothing on your Thai tax return to indicate your IRA income. What, exactly, would come into TRD's focus to warrant an audit?

 

No, my argument, I'm sure, would be appreciated in any audit -- and worst case -- you then pay the tax owed, plus interest. But, this revisits the argument -- why even declare it, and pay tax on it -- when the chance that it will be identified for an audit is almost zip?

 

 

My understanding is that they can see total remittances. I do well understand your point though. I would never have your confidence about this though as said at a later date I will check this issue with a Thai tax lawyer who was recommended to me. 

[jwest10]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My understanding is that they can see total remittances. I do well understand your point though. I would never have your confidence about this though as said at a later date I will check this issue with a Thai tax lawyer who was recommended to me. 

Hope he does not charge you high prices!!!

[JimGant]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My understanding is that they can see total remittances.

Not if you don't show them on your Thai tax return. And, yes, there are some folks, even on this thread, that would like for TRD to demand you show non assessable income on your tax return. We ain't there yet -- and, hopefully, never will be

[NoDisplayName]

These forms are not same-same!

 

I have my receipt copies of 2023 an d 2024 Thai forms submitted online.  I've noticed one change so far on page 2, No.3 Assessable Income under 40(4).

 

2023 #5  Income from sale of units of SSF (super savings fund)

          #6  other

 

2024 #5  Income from sale of units of SSF (super savings fund)

         #6   Income from sale of units of ESG (sustainable growth fund)

         #7  other

 

The English version of 2023 PND.90 does not match the Thai version.

         #5  Income from sale of units of SSF (super savings fund)

        #6 does not exist.

 

Wonder if anyone has gone line-by-line comparing English and Thai hardcopy tax forms to see what other discrepancies exist.

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Not if you don't show them on your Thai tax return. And, yes, there are some folks, even on this thread, that would like for TRD to demand you show non assessable income on your tax return. We ain't there yet -- and, hopefully, never will be

My understanding which may be wrong is that remittance information is available to Thai Revenue regardless.  Of course it wouldn't tell them much. For example  an American remitting only social security would have no need for a tin or to file. 

You're probably right about low risk of audit but as said I don't have your confidence to argue why it's ok to not claim IRA as accessable pension income.

[Jingthing]

59 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Hope he does not charge you high prices!!!

Possibly free for a short first meetlng.

Anyway my main issue is IRAs and I still think by the time I actually have to deal with this that there will probably be actual reports about this for the Pattaya office.

[JimGant]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're probably right about low risk of audit but as said I don't have your confidence to argue why it's ok to not claim IRA as accessable pension income.

Well, up to you, of course. But I'm certain (unless TRD publishes something that supports Expatthai's position) my argument would have a great chance to prevail -- but at worst, would certainly show a no tax evasion scenario. Thus, pay the tax, plus interest. But, a 100% chance of paying Thai tax on your IRA, vs a 1% estimated chance of random compliance audit, and then paying tax on your IRA -- doesn't seem like a contest. Anyway, based on your previous postings of your annual income, you would probably owe no Thai taxes anyway, after TEDA subtractions. So, this whole drill is only about needing to file 'cause you break the 60/120/220 filing thresholds.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Well, up to you, of course. But I'm certain (unless TRD publishes something that supports Expatthai's position) my argument would have a great chance to prevail -- but at worst, would certainly show a no tax evasion scenario. Thus, pay the tax, plus interest. But, a 100% chance of paying Thai tax on your IRA, vs a 1% estimated chance of random compliance audit, and then paying tax on your IRA -- doesn't seem like a contest. Anyway, based on your previous postings of your annual income, you would probably owe no Thai taxes anyway, after TEDA subtractions. So, this whole drill is only about needing to file 'cause you break the 60/120/220 filing thresholds.

I'm not sure the penalty would be that lenient.

[Sheryl]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My understanding which may be wrong is that remittance information is available to Thai Revenue regardless.  Of course it wouldn't tell them much. For example  an American remitting only social security would have no need for a tin or to file. 

You're probably right about low risk of audit but as said I don't have your confidence to argue why it's ok to not claim IRA as accessable pension income.

The interest portion if earned while a Thai tax redident would be assessable but a case might be made that the capital amount is in effect savings from income prior to 2024 (and indeed probably prior to becoming a Thai tax resident). Let me know what you ultimately find out.

 

I have a somewhat similar issue further (potentially) complicated by fact that the invome portion was from US government employment. 

[jwest10]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not sure the penalty would be that lenient.

I am nor sure but seen 2K fine and very unlucky if caught but it depends on how large the amounts and for most of us can claim allowances of 500 or 560K and more than our income and have been stated several times that I do not need to file!!!

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Not if you don't show them on your Thai tax return.

Not hard for them to compel banks to report annual remittance over the threshold to the TRD.  

 

In Australia, every transaction over $10,000AUD is reported to AUSTRAC, a government agency.