Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[anchadian]

i've done quite well over the 2024 tax year investing in mutual funds through my Thai bank but wasn't sure if I should include that in my tax return.
I now understand that capital gains within Thailand is tax exempt. Is this correct or should I hold off 'till we get more clarification?

This from KPMG website:

 

2.10 Taxation of investment income and capital gains

Are investment income and capital gains taxed in Thailand? If so, how? Most types of capital gains are taxable as ordinary income. Capital gains from the sale of shares in a company listed on the Stock Exchange of Thailand (if the sale is made through a licensed broker) or from the sale of investment units in a mutual fund are exempt from tax.

[JimGant]

15 minutes ago, Everyman said:

The existence of America doesn’t factor into what I consider expensive, the local economy does.

How do you figure out "expensive" with nothing to compare to...? Ok, you've been here 20 years, and now your only conception of prices is solely based on Thailand -- and what Somchai pays. I guess my conception is a little more worldly.

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, Liquorice said:

And if they have to come get you, the penalties are 200,000 BHT fine, 1 year imprisonment, or both - then you can leave Thailand.

Let's not get hysterical. Failure to file 'cause you owe no taxes, but exceed those 120/220k thresholds -- is --max -- a 2000 bt fine. Doubtful such a fine has ever been assessed, 'cause if you don't owe taxes, and don't file a return, and don't have a TIN -- you're completely off the radar.

[jwest10]

18 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

What a load of BS. Pay 8000 bt to file a null tax return, 'cause your assessable income exceeds those 120/220k thresholds -- but your TEDA prevents any taxes due. What they don't say is, pay another 7500 bt to get a TIN (my assumption). And, waste half a day plus, if you live in Bangkok, dotting the i's and crossing the t's -- and fighting traffic. Live up country? Not sure how you interface in that situation....

 

So, 8000 bt -- maybe 15,500 bt -- 100% guaranteed cost -- plus, of course, your time. Do nothing, sit back and have a beer, or a round of golf -- and have a 1% chance that TRD will even hear of you, let alone serve you with a 2000 bt fine. No brainer.

 

Yeah, that Integrity guy sure has it right about these illegal charlatans.

 

 

 

Yes, I agree and they all have the same smirky smile and when you ask a question they often do not reply and money grabbers

[TheAppletons]

Good lord, this thread is a beating.

 

 

[jwest10]

chow

[Njoku]

On 1/4/2025 at 4:24 PM, ronnie50 said:

Yes I do understand these points. What I'm trying to say is assuming I had a USD 500k savings account slowly accumulating over 30  years (I don't), and I send USD 50k to Thailand in any tax year from that account, how do I judge if I'm sending freshly minted 50k, or 50k that I earned 10 years ago, was already taxed and was sitting in that account? This is largely rhetorical, as I don't think there is any clarity on this. Sure, I could show the bank statements if challenged. That doesn't answer if the money is new or old though... does it?

Was thinking same, I already printed out home bank statement with dates to show funds where clearly in an account prior to Jan 2024 on a sum of 850,000 I brought in for a purchase, show's those funds were transferred to my every day AU account then leaving.

 

From what I've read it's meant to be tax free but lets see what the Thai Tax people say, im hoping there on "the ball" but the way they do things here im thinking there going to want a lot more proof assuming they even accept it.

[Njoku]

17 hours ago, chiang mai said:

The workforce is 38 million, the average wage is 15k per month, that means 50% of 38 million earn less than the threshold needed to file a return. 19 million below the threshold, plus 11 million who file a return, totals 30 million. There is therefore 8 million who don't file who perhaps should. Actually, the workforce is 36 million so make that 6  million who don't file......next!

You forget the strong cash economy here, some of those bike taxi operators and tom yum food stalls do very well, the TGFs bro in law does very well out of his and I bet you he dont pay any tax.

[zepplin]

On 1/4/2025 at 4:02 AM, anchadian said:

Revenue Department urges tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31. Expats with over 180 days in Thailand must submit returns for income remitted in 2024. New tax rules require filing electronically, with possible refunds for early submissions.

 

The Director-General of the Revenue Department on Thursday called on taxpayers to file their end-of-year returns for 2024. This will be the first year that all foreign residents in Thailand are included. Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable. The income tax payable by each foreigner depends on the nature of such income and the tax treaty with their country of origin. The question now is how many foreign taxpayers will file returns between now and March 31st. After that, it remains to be seen if follow-up actions will be taken against those who fail to do so. A Thai Examiner survey in 2024 showed that 16% of people plan to take professional advice, while a full 58% would not file a return at all.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2025/01/03/revenue-department-boss-calls-on-tax-residents-in-thailand-to-file-2024-runs-by-the-march-31st-deadline/

There is a snowball chance in hell, that Thailand has even 5% capacity to have qualified tax auditors, who can speak 50 languages and can understand the tax laws in those countries and work out when the money remitted here was actually earned!

just another Thai farce!

[Njoku]

5 minutes ago, zepplin said:

There is a snowball chance in hell, that Thailand has even 5% capacity to have qualified tax auditors, who can speak 50 languages and can understand the tax laws in those countries and work out when the money remitted here was actually earned!

just another Thai farce!

Its not what they can do its what there going to make you do, we have to make them understand, they will always start at the point of least residence for them, they go by the book, if its not a clear case then you the tax payer will be required to supply reams of paper work most likely transcribed to Thai etc etc etc.

 

Then what they miss today if your still on there shores and as they slowly catch up cause we the expat are easy/soft sitting targets, you might get a please explain letter or email one day, you want to stop thinking they are incompetent if you been living here long enough you should know what Thais are like with money. 

[TheAppletons]

6 minutes ago, Njoku said:

Its not what they can do its what there going to make you do, we have to make them understand, they will always start at the point of least residence for them, they go by the book, if its not a clear case then you the tax payer will be required to supply reams of paper work most likely transcribed to Thai etc etc etc.

 

Then what they miss today if your still on there shores and as they slowly catch up cause we the expat are easy/soft sitting targets, you might get a please explain letter or email one day, you want to stop thinking they are incompetent if you been living here long enough you should know what Thais are like with money. 

 

  I'll have what you're smoking.

 

  Absolute fabrication.  Enjoy your frightened existence living in the shadows.    

[Thingamabob]

On 1/4/2025 at 1:01 PM, Sheryl said:

It reads as though he did mention foreigners but it is impossible to clearly tell from the article which words are his and which are added by the writer. 

....as is usual with Thai Examiner.

[ChaiyaTH]

10 hours ago, Presnock said:

totally agree but it is also my understanding that the Thai revenue dept must inform clearly if ALL income or only assessable income is necessarily reportable.  Funny how well over a year into this new interpretation and we have such little info from the Govt.

In the business of taxes that is actually your problem and responsibility. That's the entire issue in the global landscape of rapidly changing tax and VAT rules too, it's hard to keep up as a individual or SME.

 

Same as they can still get back to you for 5 year history in 5 years from now. 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

i've done quite well over the 2024 tax year investing in mutual funds through my Thai bank but wasn't sure if I should include that in my tax return.
I now understand that capital gains within Thailand is tax exempt. Is this correct or should I hold off 'till we get more clarification?

 

That is correct.

Interest is taxed at 15%, withheld at source.

Dividends are taxed at 10%, also withheld at source.

Capital gains on mutual funds registered in Thailand are not taxed.

Gains on sales of SET-registered stocks are not taxed, as well.

 

That's why those mutual funds pay zero dividends.  Any gains you make are considered non-taxable exempt income.  Foreign mutual funds held in a Thai wrapper that pay dividends do so to the holding bank, not to the retail customers, which raises the NAV.

 

Of course if you're property of Uncle Sam, you declare all of that on your 1040, and might possibly get a credit for Thai tax paid.

[Neeranam]

Of you know any foreigners offering tax advice or services, please report them. 

I think media such as Thai Examiner are spreading this nonsense for financial gain. 

[anchadian]

7 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

That is correct.

Interest is taxed at 15%, withheld at source.

Dividends are taxed at 10%, also withheld at source.

Capital gains on mutual funds registered in Thailand are not taxed.

Gains on sales of SET-registered stocks are not taxed, as well.

 

That's why those mutual funds pay zero dividends.  Any gains you make are considered non-taxable exempt income.  Foreign mutual funds held in a Thai wrapper that pay dividends do so to the holding bank, not to the retail customers, which raises the NAV.

 

Of course if you're property of Uncle Sam, you declare all of that on your 1040, and might possibly get a credit for Thai tax paid.

Thank you NDN

[NoDisplayName]

Just now, anchadian said:

Thank you NDN

 

That is my opinion only.

It's not advice.

That would be reportable.

[Lorry]

Error

[UKresonant]

21 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I think the fact the TRD lady didn't challenge or query whether your income was really exempt and was quite happy to write the total amount in the exempt income box, says it all really. TRD, not unsurprisingly, wants to have sight of income that is remitted, even though it may be exempt. It only makes sense that they would since it squares the circle and allows them to give a tick and pass to any remittances they see in your name, knowing you have declared them......that is, declared them as in announced them, even though they are are not taxable. Ask yourself, if you were TRD, what would you want to see. If I was them I would want full disclosure and to see total remittances, regardless of their assessability, because it closes all the loops on that person

It does make me think back to a conversation with a UK HMRC Technician, back in 2018. She said it would be likely the my exempt .gov pension would have to be declared  .. in some places they wanted to show it taxed, and the refund it on the other side of the page as credit / refund of the tax...

 

>It would be great if some transparency would be given on practical RD operation of tax credits.

 

I'm pondering, the exempt would have to feature in the calculation eg. much simplified, roughly...

 

Say £20000 taxable in TH, UK private pensions, already taxed in UK -£1485.

£ 2000 UK .gov pension, -£400 tax (just coincidental, sequence of when pension was initiated, not the rate for that pension type)

 

So tax paid £1885/20115so approx £0.0937 for each net £. Only net £s being actual remitted to Thailand. 

 

So if THB 500k sent to Thailand, say £12000 x0.0937=£1124 or THB 46850 Tax credit. 

2000/22000 9.09% of each is non taxable, THB 450500 taxable, with a Tax credit of THB 42211.85.

 

No forms apparent.to express the tax credit?

 

How will it work!

 

There is no distinct separation at the UK taxed end, for DTA consideration subsequently....<

 

[Not currently tax res]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

It does make me think back to a conversation with a UK HMRC Technician, back in 2018. She said it would be likely the my exempt .gov pension would have to be declared  .. in some places they wanted to show it taxed, and the refund it on the other side of the page as credit / refund of the tax...

 

>It would be great if some transparency would be given on practical RD operation of tax credits.

 

I'm pondering, the exempt would have to feature in the calculation eg. much simplified, roughly...

 

Say £20000 taxable in TH, UK private pensions, already taxed in UK -£1485.

£ 2000 UK .gov pension, -£400 tax (just coincidental, sequence of when pension was initiated, not the rate for that pension type)

 

So tax paid £1885/20115so approx £0.0937 for each net £.

 

So if THB 500k sent to Thailand, say £12000 x0.0937=£1124 or THB 46850 Tax credit. 

2000/22000 9.09% of each is non taxable, THB 450500 taxable, with a Tax credit of THB 42211.85.

 

No forms apparent.to express the tax credit?

 

How will it work!

 

There is no distinct separation at the UK taxed end, for DTA consideration subsequently....<

 

[Not currently tax res]

 

 

 

 

 

 

But what about when that Government Pension is below the level that it could be taxed and the net effect is tax free? My US SSc is below the level of US tax so I can't show tax paid on it and the DTA says it is tax free in Thailand.

[jwest10]

9 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Of you know any foreigners offering tax advice or services, please report them. 

I think media such as Thai Examiner are spreading this nonsense for financial gain. 

Yes and all of them including Carl Turner of the so-called expats Tax Advisor and have asked where these forms available for down;oad 90 and 91 and the Exemption allowances but no where to be seen and not on the revenue sites.
So we can not file and in any case and do not think we can and asked Carl can he send me some forms and guess what no reply except the link for a so-called 15 minute fee ? video call and can not get it in any case.
What a total farce and everyone hasno clue grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[UKresonant]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

But what about when that Government Pension is below the level that it could be taxed and the net effect is tax free? My US SSc is below the level of US tax so I can't show tax paid on it and the DTA says it is tax free in Thailand.

If I had taken the exempt .gov pension as sequence one, that would be the case 2k tax free and 2k to send to Thailand! But they are all intertwined anyway. ( It's like someone saying they are buying only  green zero emmission energy from a.grid that is 60% fossil fuel energized.)

 

 

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, UKresonant said:

It does make me think back to a conversation with a UK HMRC Technician, back in 2018. She said it would be likely the my exempt .gov pension would have to be declared 

 

I was mulling this over with a mate last night, again.

 

The UK - Thai DTA explicitly states that UK Gov Pensions are only taxable in the UK. Quite simple and easy to understand.

 

What the UK - Thai DTA does not state, is.

 

1. You are exempt from Reporting / Declaring that pension.

 

2. You are exempt from Thai tax Law should you become a tax resident of Thailand.

 

3. This Pension is non - Assessable for tax purposes in Thailand.

 

Add into the mix, that this Agreement was signed in 1982 and in the last 18 months or so, Thailand has adopted CRS, and issued the 2 POR's.

 

Therefore it is perfectly feasible that a Gov Pension is Reportable / Declarable for tax purposes, but is exempt from Thai Tax due to DTA.

 

Which is why I was back at the RD Office on Monday.

 

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

But what about when that Government Pension is below the level that it could be taxed

 

There will be very few, if any, that retired from Government Service with a full pension that is below the levels of UK taxation. Unless they went in at the lowest level, and stayed there for the next 25 / 30 / 40 years.

[chiang mai]

19 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I was mulling this over with a mate last night, again.

 

The UK - Thai DTA explicitly states that UK Gov Pensions are only taxable in the UK. Quite simple and easy to understand.

 

What the UK - Thai DTA does not state, is.

 

1. You are exempt from Reporting / Declaring that pension.

 

2. You are exempt from Thai tax Law should you become a tax resident of Thailand.

 

3. This Pension is non - Assessable for tax purposes in Thailand.

 

Add into the mix, that this Agreement was signed in 1982 and in the last 18 months or so, Thailand has adopted CRS, and issued the 2 POR's.

 

Therefore it is perfectly feasible that a Gov Pension is Reportable / Declarable for tax purposes, but is exempt from Thai Tax due to DTA.

 

Which is why I was back at the RD Office on Monday.

 

 

There will be very few, if any, that retired from Government Service with a full pension that is below the levels of UK taxation. Unless they went in at the lowest level, and stayed there for the next 25 / 30 / 40 years.

Yes, but the concept of government pensions being exempt, applies to many countries so the same principles apply.

[jwest10]

26 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I was mulling this over with a mate last night, again.

 

The UK - Thai DTA explicitly states that UK Gov Pensions are only taxable in the UK. Quite simple and easy to understand.

 

What the UK - Thai DTA does not state, is.

 

1. You are exempt from Reporting / Declaring that pension.

 

2. You are exempt from Thai tax Law should you become a tax resident of Thailand.

 

3. This Pension is non - Assessable for tax purposes in Thailand.

 

Add into the mix, that this Agreement was signed in 1982 and in the last 18 months or so, Thailand has adopted CRS, and issued the 2 POR's.

 

Therefore it is perfectly feasible that a Gov Pension is Reportable / Declarable for tax purposes, but is exempt from Thai Tax due to DTA.

 

Which is why I was back at the RD Office on Monday.

 

 

There will be very few, if any, that retired from Government Service with a full pension that is below the levels of UK taxation. Unless they went in at the lowest level, and stayed there for the next 25 / 30 / 40 years.

Very interesting indeed and was wondering about this as well and yes I do not know about everyone else I paid too much income tax to the UK for the year ended 5th April 2024 and in fact got a small refund in Sterling.
BTW again I reiterate as of Tuesday 7th January  I went around again to the local Revenue office to enquire about the forms 90 and 91 and the Exemption/ Allowances one and stated what form and yet again stated as many times before with my circumstances I do not have to fill in any forms.
As mentioned Carl Turner of the expats tax so-called tax expert and on his latest video stating yes we are classified as a tax resident if we stay over 180 days then we must fill in a tax form but on the very next page stating if your income is below the current threshold  then you do not need to file.

In any case there are still no forms and none on the revenue sites and possibly in Thai but none of us can find any forms anyway.
This whole process has not been well thought out at all to say the least and too many tax experts all stating different things just like all the Revenue offices!!!!
 

 

[The Cyclist]

15 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Yes, but the concept of government pensions being exempt, applies to many countries so the same principles apply.

 

I'm not sure I am getting your point.

 

The UK - Thai DTA does not mention the word exempt. It says " Taxable only in that State "

 

That might be semantics, but does not negate any of these 3 points

 

Quote

What the UK - Thai DTA does not state, is.

 

1. You are exempt from Reporting / Declaring that pension.

 

2. You are exempt from Thai tax Law should you become a tax resident of Thailand.

 

3. This Pension is non - Assessable for tax purposes in Thailand.

 

But the principle of, what happened in the past might not happen in the future, also applies.

 

The end result will be the same, only taxable in X Country, but that makes no difference to complying with a Countries ( In this case Thailand ) domestic tax law as a tax resident of Thailand.

[Celsius]

A new fluff piece from Guardian. Just wondering if these Chinese will be filing their tax returns?

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

30 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

As mentioned Carl Turner of the expats tax so-called tax expert and on his latest video stating yes we are classified as a tax resident if we stay over 180 days then we must fill in a tax form but on the very next page stating if your income is below the current threshold  then you do not need to file.

 

I dont think Carl Turner is expressing anything that is earth shattering news.

 

180 days or more in a Thai tax year, you are a Thai Resident for tax purposes.

 

The revenue code lays out 60 / 120 / 220k baht as the filing thresholds, depending on the income and whether you file as an individual or a couple.

 

I personally, do not know anyone who remits money below these limits, but there could be some that do.

 

The issue that I am raising, is that for Thailand to comply with its reporting citeria under CRS in the detection and prevention of tax avoidance / evasion. Then foreigners will have to Report / Declare remitted incomes, to ensure that the appropriate taxes have been paid that are applicable.

 

And certainly the UK - Thai DTA does not say that Gov Pensions are not Reportable / Declarable.

[jwest10]

42 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I'm not sure I am getting your point.

 

The UK - Thai DTA does not mention the word exempt. It says " Taxable only in that State "

 

That might be semantics, but does not negate any of these 3 points

 

 

But the principle of, what happened in the past might not happen in the future, also applies.

 

The end result will be the same, only taxable in X Country, but that makes no difference to complying with a Countries ( In this case Thailand ) domestic tax law as a tax resident of Thailand.

Yes, true the Thai Authorities have their own views and what is right for some is not right for others and they make it up as time goes on!!!

 

[Andycoops]

On 1/4/2025 at 10:25 AM, oldcpu said:

 

Not yet as far as I can tell.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

Year 2023 appears to be the latest at present time.

Hardly surprising the Thai government departments are way behind the curve in most things.