Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[saintdomingo]

On 1/16/2025 at 4:03 PM, MikeandDow said:

There are always way around Tax laws in every country !! whether or not its illegal!!, Thai laws are the same always loop holes.!! me dont trust banks here!  dont do bank tranfers, deal in cash !! bring cash  into thailand  You can bring up to $20,000 USD or the equivalent in foreign currency into Thailand without declaring it to customs. You can also bring up to 500,000 Thai baht (THB) into the country.  I work FIFO every trip do the same been doing it for 15yrs  the old phrase "Money under the bed" works for me ( Iam a poor pensioner )

And then when you change the US$ is there no record from the currency exchange.? And at what rate would you buy THB outside Thailand.?

The first point would only be relevant if visas and extensions become conditional on tax clearance. FIFO is a new one to me.

[saintdomingo]

1 hour ago, Badrabbit said:

Is it now law that I must file a tax return?

Is it law that I must obtain a TIN?

I'm a little fish in a big sea, I bring in less than 1 million per year via 3 small pensions, I pay tax in the UK.

Why would they be concerned with me?

Agree with you, but think the question should be "will they be concerned with me.?" If the task of seeking out people is more trouble than is justified by the amount collected they may not be concerned with the likes of us.

[saintdomingo]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

60k single

120k married

Isn't there another allowance for over 65.?

[wmccpa112253]

Please provide a reference to your claim that intl. credit card charges are taxable if converted to thai baht.  Specifically, please reference the Thai tax code section 40 which details Assessible Income.

Thank you

[The Cyclist]

42 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

If this all true I guess I'll be up for back taxes after living here for 9 years with no tax file number. If this government starts taxing pensioners it will be another item to tip the scales for leaving Thailand.

 

Highly unlikely, as this is only effective 01 Jan 2024.

 

[anchadian]

20 minutes ago, saintdomingo said:

Isn't there another allowance for over 65.?

Yes, 190K for over 65 years

[suzannegoh]

On 1/15/2025 at 10:36 PM, gamb00ler said:

I understand that using an ATM owned by a Thai bank you can choose to allow the Thai bank to do the conversion rather than taking the card processor's rate.  Is that also possible when making a retail purchase?

It wouldn't  be to your advantage to do that,you'll just pay an extra 3 to 5% for nothing.

[MikeandDow]

1 hour ago, saintdomingo said:

And then when you change the US$ is there no record from the currency exchange.? And at what rate would you buy THB outside Thailand.?

The first point would only be relevant if visas and extensions become conditional on tax clearance. FIFO is a new one to me.

I normally buy Thai baht at a bank  at the country i am working at,  who cares if there is a record Thailand will not know !! If this is Tied to visas their will be ways and means,  Thailand is a courpt country. FIFO  (Fly in Fly out) 

[DaRoadrunner]

On 1/15/2025 at 8:04 PM, Briggsy said:

What would be the incentive to file?

 

Let me give you some completely hypothetical examples.

 

1. They refuse to extend your permission to stay unless you provide proof you have filed a tax return.

2. They issue an estimated assessment for a year you did not file.

3. They issue a fine for a year you did not file.

4. The Thai bank freezes your bank account unless you provide proof you have filed a tax return.

 

Currently these all seem very unlikely.

 

So I am back to my original question, what would be the incentive to file a Thai tax return.

 

They start doing s**t like that its bye bye Thailand.

 

Furthermore, if they think they have any authority to tax my foreign pension I will tell em where to shove it.

 

At the moment it looks like they haven't got a clue what they are going to do. Wait n see.

[it is what it is]

1 minute ago, DaRoadrunner said:

 

They start doing s**t like that its bye bye Thailand. Furthermore, if they think they have any authority to tax my foreign pension I will tell em where to shove it.

 

They start doing s**t like that its bye bye Thailand.

 

no problem, up to you

 

Furthermore, if they think they have any authority to tax my foreign pension I will tell em where to shove it.

 

good luck with that. i bet they're quaking in their boots

[MikeandDow]

6 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

 

They start doing s**t like that its bye bye Thailand.

 

Furthermore, if they think they have any authority to tax my foreign pension I will tell em where to shove it.

 

At the moment it looks like they haven't got a clue what they are going to do. Wait n see.

They have the Authority to revoke your visa !!

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, saintdomingo said:

Isn't there another allowance for over 65.?

You're thinking of something else.

I'm talking about the very low thresholds that require FILING.

Many people are required to file that will owe zero tax.

[TheAppletons]

2 hours ago, saintdomingo said:

Isn't there another allowance for over 65.?

 

a) Personal Allowance for self (PA1) - 60,000 

b) Personal Allowance for wife (PA2) - 60,000 

c) Over age 65 years exemption (OAE) - 190,000 

d) 50% of pension income received, up to 100k (PD) - 100,000 

e) In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax (ZR)  

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1324294-introduction-to-personal-income-tax-in-thailand/#comments

 

[ross163103]

Just my two cents worth, but I think the Thai govt is pushing this issue hoping farangs will get a TIN, file taxes, and pay voluntarily, which some will do.

What I've learned from many many years in Thailand is Thai people want things easy not complicated. Seems to me this is a very complicated issue that will take a LOT of research, time, and effort on the government's part; just one example being trying to figure out charges on a credit card made in Thailand!

Personally I'm going to wait until if/when it's linked to me getting a visa then reevaluate the situation if that happens. As one poster mentioned, Thailand has LOT'S of laws, how many are enforced? It's a gamble I'm willing to take, maybe I lose maybe I win, you never know. Mai pen rai

[Neeranam]

On 1/15/2025 at 8:04 PM, Briggsy said:

Let me give you some completely hypothetical examples.

 

1. They refuse to extend your permission to stay unless you provide proof you have filed a tax return.

2. They issue an estimated assessment for a year you did not file.

3. They issue a fine for a year you did not file.

4. The Thai bank freezes your bank account unless you provide proof you have filed a tax return.

 

Currently these all seem very unlikely.

The more I think about, these different departments don't like dealing with each other. In Thailand, every official has their own little kingdom and when head of other little kingdoms encroach upon theirs, there is conflict, partly based on the strict hierarchical social structure but also on Thais' non-confrontational 'rules'. 

For many years, the Dept of Labour refused to tell the Dept of Immigration if someone handed back their WP, for example. Laziness, shyness, and most importantly, "greng jai", not wanting to put other people 'out' by giving them extra work/headache, etc.

Immigration were clever and employee many agents to take the bribes from foreigners, whom they don't particularly like dealing with, especially in areas of 'Thainess'. I could list many more example, like the Special Branch police not wanting to talk to the Ministry of Interior when I became a Thai citizen. This, like many other things was due to the Military govt, and especially the great General Anupong cracking down on police corruption. 

All departments are corrupt, and have their own rules, so the likelihood of Bank officials liaising with Immigration or Revenue Department is highly unlikely, but... there is an opportunity for them all to make money off the naive foreigners who will eagerly giving in to intimidation or extortion(particularly from the highly corrupt Immigration Police) by any one of the departments, who will use agent scum to do their dirty work. As we see, the foreign charlatans, who are working illegally if giving Thai tax advice and the agents are starting to rise from the bottom of the pond. 

[samtam]

13 hours ago, Guavaman said:

Assessable income is declared according to the category of income 40(1)-(8), pension or dividends that  is remitted. If you withdraw those funds by ATM, CC, etc., that assessable income is reported as either pension or dividends according to the source of those funds remitted. Ideally, one would have separate accounts for pension and dividends; however, if those funds are comingled in one account, one cannot document the source of the funds for each transaction.  

 

The deduction for 50% of expenses up to 100K for employment/pension income category 40 (1) in 1 (1)  does not apply to assessable income from dividends, so including dividend income there confounds the calculation of the deductible expenses in 1(5). 

 

I take your point. I have spent this morning relisting all income from pension, and all income from dividends, although of course funds are co-mingled into one current account for withdrawal by the methods I use.

 

I can split off the pension in 40(1) only for the amount remitted, and will only put in the dividend portion in No.3 3 that I use in my remitted (by ATM, Debit Card, FPS QR) funds. It is not all of the dividends, so I am only going to show the proportion of the dividends that qualify. I cannot see how else to do it.

There is no requirement (yet) to show my worldwide dividends that are not remitted into Thailand. 

It seems fairly obvious that the tax forms need to be amended to take account the many variations of how remitted money is brought in, if that is the RD's intention. I'm not sure they really know what they want, judging by the lack of new forms and the variations in responses from RD officers and offices themselves. But here we are with 71 days to go until the deadline.

[Expat68]

1 hour ago, TheAppletons said:

 

a) Personal Allowance for self (PA1) - 60,000 

b) Personal Allowance for wife (PA2) - 60,000 

c) Over age 65 years exemption (OAE) - 190,000 

d) 50% of pension income received, up to 100k (PD) - 100,000 

e) In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax (ZR)  

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1324294-introduction-to-personal-income-tax-in-thailand/#comments

 

So if you are married and 72 years old, when would you start paying tax?

[JimGant]

6 hours ago, smew said:

Time to move back… why get  double taxed!!!!

Does your country's DTA not protect against double taxation? Or are you confusing finally having to pay taxes to someone -- as double taxation? Many on this forum are whining, 'cause they're in the latter situation. Breaks my heart.

[Njoku]

On 1/15/2025 at 8:53 PM, Moonlover said:

And just to add to that, were the TRD to go chasing around tracking down all us 'miscreants', they would find that most retirees won't owe them any money. Most of us are protected by DTAs in various forms or are drawing pensions that cannot be taxed in any other country anyway.

 

The yield IMO would not be worth the effort and I wouldn't like to contemplate the anguish it might cause amongst the community.

 

Let sleeping dogs lie is, by far their best policy.

Its pretty easy to see you are as thick as a brick even with it written out plainly for you to see where it could go.

 

After everything Briggsy mentioned most tax offices work the same way, FINES that wont get reversed for failure to lodge, its 2000 if you miss a 90 day report, interest on tax not paid plus the tax they deem you owe, then you are on there radar for life, add the reems of paper work you might need to come up with  with short notice given, might never come to this might be 5 or 10 ys time, if you structure your affairs better you can minimise the tax to zero even get a refund.

 

I wont be tempting fate over a simple lodging of a tax form where im confident to pay little tax this year and refunds for the future.

 

Ps they already ask for a bank letter and they want your bank statements to check and we know certain immigration centres add a few extras like wanting to see your bank book 90 days after your new long stay extension so you think a clearnece letter from the Tax office couldn't be included easily?

[Njoku]

5 hours ago, saintdomingo said:

Agree with you, but think the question should be "will they be concerned with me.?" If the task of seeking out people is more trouble than is justified by the amount collected they may not be concerned with the likes of us.

You ask  "If the task of seeking out people is more trouble than is justified by the amount collected",  you seem to forget those tax officials earn somewhere around 20,000 a month, god dam right your worth looking into., 

[bkk_mike]

On 1/15/2025 at 9:25 PM, scorecard said:

There's another item that still needs clarification 'income'.

 

Previous answers seemed to suggest that (for example) Oz old age pensions transferred automatically to Thai bank accounts are not classified as 'income'.

 

But we still wait and see. 

I thought that was dependent on the double taxation agreement.

So US social security and all Hong Kong pensions are exempt. UK state pensions aren't unless it's a government pension (i.e. civil service pension).

Admittedly a UK state pension not being classed as a "government pension" for the double taxation agreement does feel a bit weird...

So for Oz, check the double taxation agreement.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Njoku said:

Its pretty easy to see you are as thick as a brick even with it written out plainly for you to see where it could go.

 

It is pretty easy to see that good manners is not your strong suit.