How safe is the retirement visa as a strategy to live in Thailand permanently?

[oldcpu]

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

I asked about what extra "rights" does a retirement visa holder have that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp have, other than not having to leave Thailand and getting a 5 year driving license as opposed to a 2 year driving license.  Simple question, really.

 

Nothing paying an agent can't fix.  Do you deny this? 

 

Living in Thailand for 1 year can be considered a 'right' that Visa Exempt does not have.

 

An agent won't get you a Yellow Book.

 

An agent requires $$$ to open a bank account for Visa exempt.  Those on the Type-O/OA can open without that and they have the 'right' to keep their money -as opposed to Visa exempt who has to give up that money to open the bank account.

 

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

I just told you.  Try to get a one year extension on your permission to stay in Thailand on a 1-year visa.

 

And I  just asked you to name something else. 

 

I conceded this, but also said agents could fix it, but I'll concede anyway. 

 

Name something else.

 

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I just told you.

Can you name something else?

 

Shouldn't be too difficult, the retirement visa being so supreme and all. 

 

4 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Sure if you want to pay a bunch of extra $$$$$ that those on the 1-year visa don't have to pay.

Right, so it can be done.  That proves my point. 

 

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Having a yellow book, allowed me to use that# as a tax-ID, unfreeze a foreign bank account, and make a timely stock trade earning me $40,000 US.  Without the yellow book ? Nope.  The local RD office denied me a Thai TIN.

Yes, all very relevant to most expats. 

 

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Is that clear enough for you.

Yes, but worthless. 

 

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

So I ask you again, try to get a yellow book on a Visa exempt.  Try.

Many have no need.  Simple as that.

 

7 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I just did.

So, now it's all about the yellow book, not the retirement visa.  Nice try, but let's get back to general case scenarios and not $40k USD stock trading.  Talk about a deflection. 

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Living in Thailand for 1 year can be considered a 'right' that Visa Exempt does not have.

I conceded this from the start.

 

What else.  Come on, should be easy.

 

4 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

An agent won't get you a Yellow Book.

Most have no need for one with an agent. 

 

Come on, there must be more things, surely. 

 

5 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

An agent requires $$$ to open a bank account for Visa exempt. 

So? 

 

You admit it can be done, that's my point.

 

I am not talking about costs.  I am talking about the ability of someone on a 30 day visa exempt stamp to do the same things as someone on a retirement visa. 

 

So far, you have come up with very little they can not do.  

 

Where's the big list of differences????

 

 

[oldcpu]

15 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

And I  just asked you to name something else. 

 

and I did.

 

15 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, all very relevant to most expats. 

 

You asked for something that those on a visa exempt can't do.

 

I named it.  Clear enough?

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, now it's all about the yellow book, not the retirement visa.  Nice try, but let's get back to general case scenarios and not $40k USD stock trading.  Talk about a deflection. 

 

You can't shift the fact you are wrong.  You can not get a yellow book on Visa Exempt.

 

You can't shift the fact that those on a type-O/OA visa, will have the right of having extra $$ in their hand after opening a bank account, while those Visa exempt will be $$ more poor after paying the agent.

 

and I have YET to see anyone visa exempt, pay an agent to give them a one year extension.

 

You clearly stated no additional rights.  You have been proven wrong.

.

 

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Nothing paying an agent can't fix.  Do you deny this? 

 

As far as I know, nowadays agents can only help with opening an account at Bangkok Bank. If you want an account at another bank as a tourist, you're out of luck.

 

That's quite a limitation, especially when you consider how much trouble Bangkok Bank's debit cards have caused many of their customers in recent years. I for one am certainly glad to have cards from other banks as well. 

[Rob Browder]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Usual scaremongering post. Your common theme. 

 

There is zero indication of you  state immigration "force me to pay agent" 

 

My most recent extension retirement Nov 5 (CW)  was same as every other year. 

Easy peasy.

Not "scaremongering" - rather, Being Prepared.  They already changed the retirement-extensions once without warning, and no grandfathering, a few years back.   I am not going to predict when that will happen again - when Immigration decide too many people can DIY it, and they want to increase agent-business to line their pockets. 

The DTV is putting a dent in their racket; some guy just got hassled at the airport on only his 2nd VE entry, after returning to his home country in between - IO told him just one VE per 12-months (new made-up rule).  Just Be Prepared for how Immigration operates, and any problems they create are solve-able.

 

My advice is always - have a "Plan B," including other countries - and never put more $$ into Thailand than you can afford to lose.

[DrJack54]

9 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, please do tell me, what can someone on a retirement visa do that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp not do, other than the two things I have mentioned? 

Don't follow any of this sideshow.

The OP title in part

"..... strategy to live in Thailand permanently" 

 

Non O visa and subsequent 12 month extensions allows for ongoing living in Thailand. 

Albeit the permission of stay is "temporary" 

On the other hand a 30/60 day visa exempt entry while can be extended requires one to exit and reenter for another visa exempt entry.

At airports this will have a limited lifespan.

At land borders we are seeing recently compulsory 1-2 night stay.

Requests for return flight out of Thailand. Accommodation etc.

 

[KhunLA]

7 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Not "scaremongering" - rather, Being Prepared.  They already changed the retirement-extensions once without warning, and no grandfathering, a few years back.   I am not going to predict when that will happen again - when Immigration decide too many people can DIY it, and they want to increase agent-business to line their pockets. 

The DTV is putting a dent in their racket; some guy just got hassled at the airport on only his 2nd VE entry, after returning to his home country in between - IO told him just one VE per 12-months (new made-up rule).  Just Be Prepared for how Immigration operates, and any problems they create are solve-able.

 

My advice is always - have a "Plan B," including other countries - and never put more $$ into Thailand than you can afford to lose.

I don't believe they have changed the 0 non immigrant visa, for retirement or marriage, since I've been here, 25 yrs.    They have enforced more of the rules, to stop people abusing it.  Thank your fellow expats for that.   But the requirements have not changed, I don't think, nothing noticeable.

 

The did add health insurance to the 0-A visa, during covid, and that makes sense, since more than a few were stiffing hospitals.

 

0 non immigrant is easy to get & extend yearly, if you qualify, and all simple enough to do.  After a tester, of a year or 2, if TH isn't for you, you can always leave, or if lovin' it, decide where to stay.

 

More than enough people to assist without the scare mongering that goes on, from those that failed.

[EVENKEEL]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I don't believe they have changed the 0 non immigrant visa, for retirement or marriage, since I've been here, 25 yrs.    They have enforced more of the rules, to stop people abusing it.  Thank your fellow expats for that.   But the requirements have not changed, I don't think, nothing noticeable.

 

The did add health insurance to the 0-A visa, during covid, and that makes sense, since more than a few were stiffing hospitals.

 

0 non immigrant is easy to get & extend yearly, if you qualify, and all simple enough to do.  After a tester, of a year or 2, if TH isn't for you, you can always leave, or if lovin' it, decide where to stay.

 

More than enough people to assist without the scare mongering that goes on, from those that failed.

The did add health insurance to the 0-A visa, during covid, and that makes sense, since more than a few were stiffing hospitals.

 

So, folks on a Non O weren't stiffing hospitals. Only the OA folks. I started with the OA, Covid came and couldn't leave to reset the OA for 12 months. Used an agent who for 3K got me a BS Ins policy. Requiring the OA's to have Ins and not the O's seems weird.

[Hummin]

22 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The did add health insurance to the 0-A visa, during covid, and that makes sense, since more than a few were stiffing hospitals.

 

So, folks on a Non O weren't stiffing hospitals. Only the OA folks. I started with the OA, Covid came and couldn't leave to reset the OA for 12 months. Used an agent who for 3K got me a BS Ins policy. Requiring the OA's to have Ins and not the O's seems weird.

So you got an agent to give you a bs insurance 👏

 

And some still do not understand why new regulations and requirements happening. 

 

Once, I could hand over my passport at my fav beach in the morning, and got it back in the evening for xxx baht, cant remember, but it saved me two days trip to Malaysia. 

[EVENKEEL]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

So you got an agent to give you a bs insurance 👏

 

And some still do not understand why new regulations and requirements happening. 

 

Once, I could hand over my passport at my fav beach in the morning, and got it back in the evening for xxx baht, cant remember, but it saved me two days trip to Malaysia. 

I have good BC/BS International insurance from the US. If I didn't then for sure I'd have health ins. purchased in Thailand.

 

I firmly believe that whatever new rules come about are in part driven by the desire to increase Agent assistance. It's ingrained in the Thai way of doing business. Doesn't matter if its immigration, the land office....whatever, money greases the squeaky wheel.

[jerrymahoney]

And maybe a hiccup to what is firmly believed above is if the Revenue people start to see all these clever Immigration work-arounds as a means to avoiding taxes.

[Hummin]

28 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I have good BC/BS International insurance from the US. If I didn't then for sure I'd have health ins. purchased in Thailand.

 

I firmly believe that whatever new rules come about are in part driven by the desire to increase Agent assistance. It's ingrained in the Thai way of doing business. Doesn't matter if its immigration, the land office....whatever, money greases the squeaky wheel.

I also had a few times where I thought they just xx with me, and required new original letter of income from the embassy which my Embassy never heard about before, but was so kind to mail me a new one assap without any extra charges. Did cost me a roundtrip of 186km, but thanks to my embassy, who saved me a roundtrip of 350 extra km at no charge. 

 

Also made up the need of new pictures of house nr, and other facilities with us included. Seems they just trying to make our lives hard. But we getting better at it, and now prepared for every attack they should have. Even I already moved back, I will maintain my extension of "retirement visa" as long I can. You never know, it might pay of in the end, even I stay less than 6 months a year now. 

[KhunLA]

50 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The did add health insurance to the 0-A visa, during covid, and that makes sense, since more than a few were stiffing hospitals.

 

So, folks on a Non O weren't stiffing hospitals. Only the OA folks. I started with the OA, Covid came and couldn't leave to reset the OA for 12 months. Used an agent who for 3K got me a BS Ins policy. Requiring the OA's to have Ins and not the O's seems weird.

I'm sure the bean counters worked there numbers, and acted appropriately with the info 'they' had.   It was during covid, and IF here, on an -0-, you weren't going anywhere.

 

If coming when opened again, then added to -0-A-, and easy enough for people to understand.  Well, most people.   

 

Since early arrivals had to be hospitalized when tested positive, it didn't take long to realize ... hey, let's require insurance, as too many didn't have it.

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

And maybe a hiccup to what is firmly believed above is if the Revenue people start to see all these clever Immigration work-arounds as a means to avoiding taxes.

Yep ... and I pray they add a new tax form at renewal / extension time.

 

"Where's tax form ? "

... Oh crap 

[jerrymahoney]

Tax form? Maybe. All Revenue might want to know is that, if you are on an extension via retirement, you should have either 65K+ coming in every month or 800K sitting in the bank at time of extension. One or the other.

[KhunHeineken]

18 hours ago, oldcpu said:

and I have YET to see anyone visa exempt, pay an agent to give them a one year extension.

You do know you can pay an agent to go from a 30 day visa exemption stamp to a retirement visa, right? 

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

As far as I know, nowadays agents can only help with opening an account at Bangkok Bank. If you want an account at another bank as a tourist, you're out of luck.

 

That's quite a limitation, especially when you consider how much trouble Bangkok Bank's debit cards have caused many of their customers in recent years. I for one am certainly glad to have cards from other banks as well. 

I said open a bank account.  I didn't nominate a bank.  So you agree it can be done on a 30 day visa exemption stamp. 

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

You do know you can pay an agent to go from a 30 day visa exemption stamp to a retirement visa, right? 

 

Yes - to a Type-O non-immigrant visa for reason of retirement.  And they get new 'rights' then.  < lol >  But then they are no longer Visa exempt.  Are they - right?

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Not "scaremongering" - rather, Being Prepared.  They already changed the retirement-extensions once without warning, and no grandfathering, a few years back.   I am not going to predict when that will happen again - when Immigration decide too many people can DIY it, and they want to increase agent-business to line their pockets. 

The DTV is putting a dent in their racket; some guy just got hassled at the airport on only his 2nd VE entry, after returning to his home country in between - IO told him just one VE per 12-months (new made-up rule).  Just Be Prepared for how Immigration operates, and any problems they create are solve-able.

 

My advice is always - have a "Plan B," including other countries - and never put more $$ into Thailand than you can afford to lose.

Good post. 

 

Can I ask which airport?  I have a friend that holidays here three times a year. 

[oldcpu]

17 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

The DTV is putting a dent in their racket; some guy just got hassled at the airport on only his 2nd VE entry, after returning to his home country in between - IO told him just one VE per 12-months (new made-up rule).  Just Be Prepared for how Immigration operates, and any problems they create are solve-able..

 

I wonder if this was a  'one of' occurrence, or if we will see more of this?

 

The hope was that for some it would be better to switch from a Type-O non-immigrant to a DTV ... but if this is to be the case it sort of makes such a switch not such a great idea after all.

[KhunHeineken]

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Non O visa and subsequent 12 month extensions allows for ongoing living in Thailand. 

Which can be purchased through an agent by someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp. 

 

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Albeit the permission of stay is "temporary" 

Yet, many view it as "permanent."  It's those people who disagree that a retirement visa / extension is nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa. 

 

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

On the other hand a 30/60 day visa exempt entry while can be extended requires one to exit and reenter for another visa exempt entry.

At airports this will have a limited lifespan.

At land borders we are seeing recently compulsory 1-2 night stay.

Requests for return flight out of Thailand. Accommodation etc.

You are also missing the point. 

 

Here's an example. 

 

Say an individual has absolutely no interest in living in Thailand full time, but likes to holiday to Thailand a few times a year.

 

On his 30 day visa exemption stamp, he can get a sim card, open a bank account, buy a motorcycle, get a Thai drivers license, buy a condo, sign a lease etc etc. 

 

I have conceded, in multiple posts, a retirement visa / extension does give an individual the ability to live in Thailand without leaving Thailand. 

 

However, can you tell something else that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp CAN NOT do in relation to setting up full time living in Thailand, without actually living in Thailand full time?  This is the point I am making.  

[DrJack54]

Many off topic posts removed. Actually should be lot more removed. 

Stick to thread. 

[save the frogs]

A lot of retirees have Youtube channels.

And they are generating some income from these channels.

Technically, you're not allowed to generate income, even online income, on a retirement visa?

But I guess it's not strictly enforced?

 

 

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

But I guess it's not strictly enforced?

Online work has been "tolerated for years" 

Not allowed is income from Thai customers.

You stated "a lot of retirees" 

Nup. Vast majority are not working on Non O 

[save the frogs]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You stated "a lot of retirees" 

Nup. Vast majority are not working on Non O 

my mistake.

maybe only a few retirees have a youtube channel.

but i want to keep busy online. I don't want to sit around drinking all day.

thanks a lot for your response. 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Online work has been "tolerated for years" 

Not allowed is income from Thai customers.

You stated "a lot of retirees" 

Nup. Vast majority are not working on Non O 

Yeah, an ambiguous area.

But now with tax enforcement it might get more interesting if earning made working in Thailand are remitted.

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

Yes - to a Type-O non-immigrant visa for reason of retirement.  And they get new 'rights' then.  < lol >  But then they are no longer Visa exempt.  Are they - right?

Yawn.

 

The new right they get is to life in Thailand without leaving.  I have conceded this, in more than one post.

 

Where are all the extra rights this visa gives over a 30 day visa exemption stamp?  

 

Can you list 5 of them?  It shouldn't be so difficult, since they are so numerous.  

 

 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Where are all the extra rights this visa gives over a 30 day visa exemption stamp?  

 

Can you list 5 of them?  It shouldn't be so difficult, since they are so numerous.

Expats living in Thailand on extensions from Non O have zero issues apart from meeting the requirements.

By obtaining multi reentry permit they can travel internationally and return to Thailand with zero issues.

They do not need to even exit Thailand.

They can live ongoing.

 

You bring in off topic comparison to living in Thailand visa exempt.

That will become very problematic quickly using trips out of Thailand and return via air to obtain visa exempt stamp.

In addition we are seeing changes in border runs.

Finally the 60 day is a recent innovation. Could change back to 30.

 

The OP asked about ongoing living in Thailand with extensions from Non O.

Not asking about other nonsense.

 

 

[DrJack54]

Posts re working in Thailand removed. Off topic