8 hours ago, potless said:

I find the advice from the head of the department to provide supporting documents a touch odd, in that had you filed online, there would be no such requirement or facility to do that as far as I know, (maybe I am wrong).

May I ask if the bank statements you provided were originals and did the tax office keep them? I.e. you dont have them anymore.

 

I believe you can scan and upload additional documents when filing online if you so choose to do so, but I'm not certain. 
 

Yes, I had gone to the bank and requested they print out 12 months of 2024 original bank statements for me to submit to the tax office as part of my tax filing. I submitted those originals together with my tax return and they were stapled and attached to my PRD90 when it was submitted. 

Submitting original bank statements for tax purposes is no different from what I already do each year when renewing my long-term visa. The Thai Immigration Department requires me to submit 12 months of original bank statements as part of the visa extension process, so this procedure of submitting and handing over original bank statements to a Thai government office is nothing new.

23 minutes ago, WingNut said:

Yes, I had gone to the bank and requested they print out 12 months of 2024 original bank statements for me to submit to the tax office as part of my tax filing. I submitted those originals together with my tax return and they were stapled and attached to my PRD90 when it was submitted. 

 

 

This would be new.  I submitted in person in Bangkok way back when, and spoke with the TRD lady at a Korat subdistrict office last year.

 

Neither wanted bank statements to document remittances, were satisfied with my handwritten list of bank transfers and my unsupported claim they were "prior savings."

 

Only required bank paperwork was the interest withholding tax statement needed to apply for refund.

16 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

This would be new.  I submitted in person in Bangkok way back when, and spoke with the TRD lady at a Korat subdistrict office last year.

 

Neither wanted bank statements to document remittances, were satisfied with my handwritten list of bank transfers and my unsupported claim they were "prior savings."

 

Only required bank paperwork was the interest withholding tax statement needed to apply for refund.

Great, whatever works. Hopefully, there won’t be any questions about it from them in the future. I’m not saying there’s only one way to do things, I’m just sharing what I did.

 

What I submitted wasn’t a requirement; it was simply a suggestion from the department head to include some supporting documentation for the income figure I reported from my overseas remittances in 2024.

 

That said, I’m a bit confused. You mentioned filing tax returns in years prior to 2024 for money you had transferred in at the time. Why would you have done that before 2024?

17 minutes ago, WingNut said:

Great, whatever works. Hopefully, there won’t be any questions about it from them in the future. I’m not saying there’s only one way to do things, I’m just sharing what I did.

 

What I submitted wasn’t a requirement; it was simply a suggestion from the department head to include some supporting documentation for the income figure I reported from my overseas remittances in 2024.

 

That said, I’m a bit confused. You mentioned filing tax returns in years prior to 2024 for money you had transferred in at the time. Why would you have done that before 2024?

 

Had a non-O 2016-2019, filed several times for interest/dividend withholding tax refund.  First time around when applying for the TIN, tax lady warned that remittances, including the 800K deposit for retirement, could potentially be assessable if current year income.  As only remitted prior savings, not a problem.

 

Non-O died when wife and I were trapped in China during the covids.  That worked out for the best, we sent our non-resident China earnings to Thailand while non-resident, used that to buy the house and land and car, unquestionably non-assessable for both of us.

1 hour ago, WingNut said:

I don't know what your second question refers to exactly, but I didn't find any of her subordinates to be clueless. 

I guess I misinterpreted this:

Quote

The woman who accepted my tax filing also showed no interest in reviewing my attached documents in general. She only asked what they were and why I was submitting them

Sounds clueless to me.

2 hours ago, WingNut said:

Yes, I had gone to the bank and requested they print out 12 months of 2024 original bank statements for me to submit to the tax office as part of my tax filing. I submitted those originals together with my tax return and they were stapled and attached to my PRD90 when it was submitted. 

Thanks for the reply.

21 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Quote

he woman who accepted my tax filing also showed no interest in reviewing my attached documents in general. She only asked what they were and why I was submitting them

Sounds clueless to me.

 

Not clueless.  Just perplexed as to why crazy foreign man would submit so much unnecessary paperwork.

6 hours ago, offset said:

Simple question the 120000baht figure is for a married couple, if not barrier but have a child to support would that figure be 90000baht

 

In most cases regarding foreigners here, the wife is "the child support." 

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

In most cases regarding foreigners here, the wife is "the child support." 

 

Understand but I have court order giving me 100% custody 

 

Another case would be if the mother is dead and the father is looking after the child

6 hours ago, JimGant said:

I guess I misinterpreted this:

Sounds clueless to me.

 

Someone had suggested that submitting a bunch of bank statements with your tax filing might invite unnecessary scrutiny or questioning from a lower-level TRD clerk. My response was meant to clarify that when I submitted my tax filing along with my bank statements, the clerk receiving my documents had no interest in scrutinizing them or asking many questions.

 

I simply mentioned to her that I attached my bank statements showing the incoming transfers that added up to the total income figure I reported for the year. She made a note on one of the pages. I also pointed out that I had used a highlighter pen on the relevant transactions to make them easier to identify. That was the extent of the interaction on my attached bank statements, there was no further questioning or review.

19 hours ago, offset said:

Simple question the 120000baht figure is for a married couple, if not barrier but have a child to support would that figure be 90000baht

 

 

Why many are talking about the 60/120k thresholds. According to the 2023 TRD guide, these are the thresholds:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/GUIDE_91_66_Complete.pdf

Quote

 1. Residents of Thailand

If you stay in Thailand for the total of at least 180 days in the tax year, you are considered a “resident of Thailand” for tax purposes. You have to file a return on the income that you received if you meet one of the following conditions:

 

(1) Your total income exceeded 120,000 baht in the tax year.

 

(2) You were married and your income combined with that of your spouse exceeded 220,000 baht in the tax year.

 

Just been and done mine. 

Situation, one year extension based on retirement, 63, married to a 62 year old Thai, one adult child who is working, wife does not work, 454,000 transfered from an offshore account, source of funds declared as interest, no dual taxation treaties apply.

Started at Bangkok Bank, asked for a withholding tax statement for myself and my wife. A bit of confusion because of the word "statement", their term is withholding tax receipt. Got mine, wife never keeps enough in her account to require one. Then requested a FST for the single transfer I had made in April last year, no issues getting that. If you haven't requested those documents before they were done at the teller desks in my branch. I tried at the sit down desks first which wasted a bit of time.

Went off to the local revenue office on my own, wife went shopping and home. Handed the nice lady behind the desk my withholding tax receipt, FST, tax ID and passport. Explained in my poor version of Thai why I was there. She seemed up to date on the requirement for me to file. She took my wife's details from a picture of the ID on my phone. I explained the money was all interest on a bank account and she asked me to sit and wait. I tried to point out a transaction for my motorcycle insurance that I made with a foreign debit card, she nodded but I am not sure she understood, the information was on a Thai insurance app and I had no hard copy of the transaction. Provided phone number and cleared up a few questions she had regarding passport. Shortly after that she printed the documents, pointed out I had 3,774 baht to pay and asked me to sign. Paid with QR code via bank app and was handed the receipt.

Asked if I could have a copy of the paperwork which was a mistake. They will do it but it is an "official" copy which requires more copies of passport, more signatures, stamps on each copy and a fee of 42 baht.

Started in the bank at 10am walked out of the Revenue office at 12:00. Would have been 20 minutes earlier if I hadn't asked for the copy.

For what it's worth. Had a free consultation call with Thomas Carden's office.

 

Tax resident in 2024, remitted savings prior 2024 above threshold for married couple. Do I need to file?

Answer: NO, but strongly advised to file. Why? Because all Thai banks will report to TRD all remittances per bank account. How to file? Put 1 baht interest income and attach evidence  1) total remitted income 2) 2023 balance statements of foreign bank savings.

 

 

14 hours ago, offset said:

 

Understand but I have court order giving me 100% custody 

 

Another case would be if the mother is dead and the father is looking after the child

Never heard of a child being a tax deduction before, but TiT. 

 

Maybe if someone had 5 kids, they pay no tax at all. 

Some Additional Footnotes on Transfers to My Thai Bank Account for 2024:

 

Following is a brief explanation about the transfers made to my Thai bank account from overseas in 2024. All of these transfers were sent by me from my Wise account to my local Thai bank account. However, there’s a small issue with how these appear on my local Thai bank statement that could cause some confusion for the TRD.

 

On my Thai bank statement, all incoming transfers/deposits, whether from other local Thai banks or from Wise, show up with the same transaction code: SWT. This happens because Wise doesn't send international wire transfers to your account directly. Instead, they deposit funds into your account using local Thai banks. As a result, regardless of whether the transfer originated from Wise or another Thai bank, it will appear as SWT on my statement.

 

To avoid any confusion, particularly if the TRD has any questions about these transfers in the future, I’ve downloaded PDF receipts for all my 2024 Wise transfers. If needed, I can clarify that the SWT entries on my statement were local bank-to-bank transfers, while the specific incoming transfers from Wise were processed through local banks in Thailand. I’ll be able to provide copies of the transfer receipts as evidence to help clear up any confusion.

 

Here is how to download bank transfer receipts if you ever want to download your Thai bank transfer receipts from Wise:

 

1- Log in to your Wise account and go to the Transaction History.

2- Click on “See All” to view all transactions, including all of those from the past going back a few years.

 

3- Once in See All view, use the filters at the top to narrow down your search. You can select a date range (I usually set a 5-day window around the date of the transfer I made) and then filter by “Transfers” only under the Type dropdown. This will display only bank-to-bank transfers, making it easier to find the specific transfer you need.

4- Once you locate the transfer, click on it to expand the details.

5- You’ll see two tabs at the top: “Updates” (default) and “Details”. Click on the “Details” tab.

 

6- Scroll to the bottom, and you’ll find the option to “Get PDF receipt”. Click on this, and a 2-page PDF of the transfer will download.

 

7- Save the file, and you can print it out or keep it for reference. If the TRD requests receipts or evidence of the Wise transfers, you can submit these PDFs or print them out and submit them as hard copies.

 

This process makes it easy to keep track of all your Wise bank transfer transactions in Thailand and provides a simple way to show proof of your transfers that you made to your Thai bank account if ever needed.

 

In the future, for my annual Thai tax filings, I may consider only attaching the individual receipts for the Wise transfers made to my Thai bank account, rather than submitting copies of my 12 months of local bank statements. This approach would provide more focused supporting documents, directly related to the actual bank transfers I made, and help avoid any confusion caused by the SWT local bank code issue on my statements. If the tax authorities require the full bank statements later, I can always provide them. However, this way, I can initially provide clear evidence of the incoming transfers pertaining to the amount stated as my annual income when filing my Thai tax return.

On 1/30/2025 at 6:13 PM, WingNut said:

The tax officer informed me that filing a return is now required if you reside in Thailand for more than 180 days during the calendar year, even if no tax is owed.

If that is true, why wouldn't the tax authorities inform every expat retiree in Thailand on their obligations and failure to comply penalty up front, much like they are advised in advance on their immigration status? Without any notification upfront of this from authorities there must be thousands of expat retirees who know nothing at all and will continue as they have done in the past.

 

Retired expats cannot be expected to take proactive steps to contact authorities or comply with tax obligations if they haven't been notified of those obligations beforehand. It's a reasonable expectation that tax authorities should notify taxpayers of their obligations, especially when it comes to new or changed regulations. By not notifying retired expats of their tax obligations, tax authorities are implicitly agreeing that expats are not responsible for taking proactive steps to comply.

31 minutes ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

If that is true, why wouldn't the tax authorities inform every expat retiree in Thailand on their obligations and failure to comply penalty up front, much like they are advised in advance on their immigration status? Without any notification upfront of this from authorities there must be thousands of expat retirees who know nothing at all and will continue as they have done in the past.

 

Retired expats cannot be expected to take proactive steps to contact authorities or comply with tax obligations if they haven't been notified of those obligations beforehand. It's a reasonable expectation that tax authorities should notify taxpayers of their obligations, especially when it comes to new or changed regulations. By not notifying retired expats of their tax obligations, tax authorities are implicitly agreeing that expats are not responsible for taking proactive steps to comply.

In principle, I agree. As far as I know, the Thai government has not made any direct official contact with foreign residents regarding these changes. So, it's entirely possible that some foreign residents in Thailand remain completely unaware of the updates to personal income tax filing requirements for foreign residents.

 

However, when it comes to legal matters, claiming ignorance of the law is never a solid defense. I'm not sure the local Thai tax authorities would accept that as an excuse either.

Perhaps the Thai Immigration Dept will start informing foreigners of these changes this year when they go to extend their long-term visas. 

 

That said, the information is clearly available in English on the Thai Revenue Department's website:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

You can read more here as well:

 

https://www.austchamthailand.com/new-rule-for-taxation-of-foreign-income-from-1-jan-2024/

 

However, I'm not defending them above and I do agree that it would have been better if they had notified all long-term foreign residents back in 2023 when the tax requirement changes were implemented. But it is what it is. Thankfully I found out myself by following local English language sources of information.

4 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

If that is true, why wouldn't the tax authorities inform every expat retiree in Thailand on their obligations and failure to comply penalty up front, much like they are advised in advance on their immigration status? Without any notification upfront of this from authorities there must be thousands of expat retirees who know nothing at all and will continue as they have done in the past.

 

Retired expats cannot be expected to take proactive steps to contact authorities or comply with tax obligations if they haven't been notified of those obligations beforehand. It's a reasonable expectation that tax authorities should notify taxpayers of their obligations, especially when it comes to new or changed regulations. By not notifying retired expats of their tax obligations, tax authorities are implicitly agreeing that expats are not responsible for taking proactive steps to comply.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and we are only guests in Thailand. 

 

We don't have permanent residency, or citizenship, so it is our responsibility to keep informed, and abide by the laws here, or, face deportation.

 

Bottom line is, pay your taxes, in the same why you abide by immigration laws, or roll the dice with the TRD. 

6 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

Quote

The tax officer informed me that filing a return is now required if you reside in Thailand for more than 180 days during the calendar year, even if no tax is owed.

 

If that is true, why wouldn't the tax authorities inform every expat retiree in Thailand on their obligations and failure to comply penalty up front, much like they are advised in advance on their immigration status? Without any notification upfront of this from authorities there must be thousands of expat retirees who know nothing at all and will continue as they have done in the past.

 

 

Its not totally accurate.

 

WingNut either misquoted the official, or IMHO the official made a mistake or did not provide enough amplifying information/caveats.

 

I believe it ONLY if one's ASSESSABLE income exceeds the tax filing threashold AND if one is a tax resident is a tax return required. 

 

We have had DOZENS of posts on this topic on this Forum.  One of the users PHONED the Thai RD help line and confirmed that a tax return is NOT required (even thou one resides in Thailand more than 180 days) if one's assessable income does not meet the reporting threshold.

 

Further, I was told by a Phuket RD official that if I remitted no money into Thailand, and if i had no Thai income, i did NOT have to file a Thai tax return.

 

 

Can we use the tax credits and deduct from how much we owe ? or do we have to pay the total owed and wait for the tax credits to be paid back by the TRD ? 

If so, how confident is everyone that they will pay this back ?

5 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

Its not totally accurate.

 

WingNut either misquoted the official, or IMHO the official made a mistake or did not provide enough amplifying information/caveats.

 

I believe it ONLY if one's ASSESSABLE income exceeds the tax filing threashold AND if one is a tax resident is a tax return required. 

 

We have had DOZENS of posts on this topic on this Forum.  One of the users PHONED the Thai RD help line and confirmed that a tax return is NOT required (even thou one resides in Thailand more than 180 days) if one's assessable income does not meet the reporting threshold.

 

Further, I was told by a Phuket RD official that if I remitted no money into Thailand, and if i had no Thai income, i did NOT have to file a Thai tax return.

 

 

 

The woman I spoke with at the TRD was clearly referring to situations like mine, where money has been transferred in from abroad during the year and qualifies as taxable income. I began the conversation with her by stating that I’m a retired resident and had transferred money into Thailand in 2024, which I needed to declare as taxable income and warranted filing a tax return. This was all in my original forum post.
 

So when she mentioned the requirement to file if exceeding 180 days in the country, she already understood the context of my situation. She obviously knows there are cases where residents are not required to file, but she didn’t need to mention that because it didn’t apply to me, and frankly, I’m glad it doesn't because I do want to file.

 

That said, as I discussed in a previous post, those who have taxable income and file tax returns might actually be in a better position down the line than those who don’t file at all. If someone doesn’t file for a few years and then gets questioned by the TRD or Immigration, they may have to get into a detailed discussion about the fact that they have only non-assessable income. At that point, the TRD could ask for proof. If the person cites double taxation treaties, they might find themselves at the discretion of the TRD at that point, which could still fine them or hold them liable for unpaid taxes. There could also be questions about how they are sustaining themselves financially in Thailand if their declared non-assessable income seems too low to live on.

 

Where I’m going with this is that if someone can transfer in some money during the year that remains below the taxable threshold but still justifies filing a tax return, that might prove to be the best approach. Becoming part of the system by filing a tax return could be the safest long-term strategy to avoid unwanted attention. Otherwise, one might consider trying to obtain a tax clearance certificate from the TRD stating that they are not required to file. That would likely provide the cleanest protection from any potential issues in the future if questions ever arise.

 

Of course, all of this is just speculation, and these concerns may never materialize, so there’s no need to panic. But it’s still good food for thought, as what we are seeing now may only prove to be the beginning of future changes to the Thai personal income tax laws for residents.

3 hours ago, Wyabcp said:

Can we use the tax credits and deduct from how much we owe ? or do we have to pay the total owed and wait for the tax credits to be paid back by the TRD ? 

If so, how confident is everyone that they will pay this back ?

I'm not sure TRD will give you a credit against your Thai tax bill if you paid taxes on your income in your home country. For example, I will pay taxes in Apr 2025 on all of my US income for tax year 2024. If I remitted some of that income to Thailand in 2024 and I owe taxes to TRD (by Mar 31), then the US will give me a tax credit against my US tax bill (using form 1116) when I file my US tax return in Apr 2025. That is what I have been told by several others on this forum. If you find out different, please let us know.

4 hours ago, WingNut said:

The woman I spoke with at the TRD was clearly referring to situations like mine, where money has been transferred in from abroad during the year and qualifies as taxable income.

 

Have you filed your return yet? (You state that you had to obtain bank documents first.)

 

What was your "assessable income" and tax paid?

 

How did you pay the tax? Cash? QR code?

 

What was the source of the funds that you remitted in 2024?

 

How did you determine that some/all funds remitted were "assessable income"?

 

Did the RD rep. agree with your determination?

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I'm not sure TRD will give you a credit against your Thai tax bill if you paid taxes on your income in your home country.

When both countries are allowed to tax, one country is primary, the other secondary. Primary country gets to keep all taxes collected, while the secondary country has to reduce its taxes collected by the amount of the credit, meaning, if the primary country's taxes are higher than those of the secondary country, secondary country collects nothing.

Good example with US-Thai DTA is income from rental properties. If I'm a Thai tax resident, but have rental property income in the US -- the US gets to keep all taxes collected and doesn't have to absorb a credit from Thailand. However Thailand -- as secondary country -- does have to absorb a tax credit.

 

Quote

The first paragraph of Article 6 states the general rule that income of a resident of a
Contracting State derived from real property situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed
in the Contracting State in which the property is situated. This Article does not grant an exclusive taxing right to the situs State; the situs State is merely given the primary right to tax.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thaitech.pdf

 

Only problem here is that a Thai tax return has no place to enter a credit. So, you would have to do some sleight-of-hand and determine what your total Thai tax would be after absorbing the tax credit; then figure out what fictitious income figure to insert that enables arriving at this total tax figure.

 

The opposite scenario, private pensions, has Thailand as primary taxation authority, and the US (per the saving clause) as secondary authority. Thus, the US is supposed to absorb the tax credit..... But Thailand has given lip service to, "you pay taxes to home country, we'll give you a credit for these taxes against any Thai taxes owed." Not sure why Thailand doesn't want to collect full fare, as the DTA stipulates. But, they can fiddle with their domestic tax rules, as long as it doesn't violate the DTA policy of 'no double taxation.' And clearly this doesn't. But like so much of what we're hearing, it's not certain what's gospel, and what's not.

12 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Bottom line is, pay your taxes, in the same why you abide by immigration laws, or roll the dice with the TRD. 

So you been doing this for all the many years you been in Thailand or has something changed? If something changed don't you think authorities have an obligation to inform?

1 hour ago, WorriedNoodle said:

So you been doing this for all the many years you been in Thailand or has something changed? If something changed don't you think authorities have an obligation to inform?

 

... why don't you go and tell the thai authorities their obligations ...  

 

btw, some embassies informed their people (sent an email) about the change in tax regulations ... so your embassy didn't inform you, but you expect the thai government to do so ...

6 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

Have you filed your return yet? (You state that you had to obtain bank documents first.)

 

What was your "assessable income" and tax paid?

 

How did you pay the tax? Cash? QR code?

 

What was the source of the funds that you remitted in 2024?

 

How did you determine that some/all funds remitted were "assessable income"?

 

Did the RD rep. agree with your determination?

Sheesh 🙄 

5 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

So you been doing this for all the many years you been in Thailand

No.

 

5 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

or has something changed?

Yes.  The Thai government has decided to enforce it. 

 

They have tasked the Director General to broaden Thailand's tax base, and foreigners are easy targets, due to the transparency of remitting money. 

 

5 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

If something changed don't you think authorities have an obligation to inform?

Will that be your excuse at extension time, or at the airport immigration desk? 

 

I suppose they could have handed everyone applying for an extension in 2023, or 2024, a piece of paper warning them.  That would not have reached ALL foreigners that are tax residents of Thailand, but it would have went a long way to spreading the word, but they didn't.  TiT.  

 

It's been in the news, and on the internet. 

 

I don't know what country you are from, but I am from Australia.  Every time the Australian government introduces a new tax, they do not mail out, snail mail and / or email, every citizen informing them of the new tax.  

 

What do you expect the Thai government should have done? 

 

7 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

 

Have you filed your return yet? (You state that you had to obtain bank documents first.)

 

What was your "assessable income" and tax paid?

 

How did you pay the tax? Cash? QR code?

 

What was the source of the funds that you remitted in 2024?

 

How did you determine that some/all funds remitted were "assessable income"?

 

Did the RD rep. agree with your determination?

 

 

 

 

 

Have you filed your return yet? (You state that you had to obtain bank documents first.)

 

Yes. Already stated in a previous post. Have you?

 

What was your "assessable income" and tax paid?

 

It was at a level below the minimum taxable level. So it was non-taxable. Already stated in a previous post. No tax paid. And you?

 

How did you pay the tax? Cash? QR code?

 

No tax paid. And you?
 

What was the source of the funds that you remitted in 2024?

 

Personal, taxable income. And yours?

 

How did you determine that some/all funds remitted were "assessable income"?

 

Because it's personal, taxable income. And yours?

 

Did the RD rep. agree with your determination?

 

She prepared the tax return forms for me. What do you think?

33 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes.  The Thai government has decided to enforce it. 

Playing devils advocate can you show me an example of how they are currently enforcing it for foreigners? (note we are both using present tense and not potential subjective measures possible in the future)

 

If you had said because they changed the interpretation of one rule I wouldn't have asked...........