Road Safety in Thailand – a summary of Perceptions and Reality

[kwilco]

11 minutes ago, novacova said:

Emotionally charged mentality undeveloped krengjai drivers are the most dangerous on the road, some people go in a psychotic trance behind the wheel, no matter what their national origin. 

Clearly you have no understanding of Kreng Jai.

[gamb00ler]

11 minutes ago, kwilco said:

..  every time road safety is discussed it is inevitable that someone will use the term “common sense”… it is a classic misconception

 

The claim that "almost all safe driving habits come from common sense"

You have a very strange definition of "common sense"

 

Merriam Webster says:
sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts

 

I have no idea why the phrase includes the word "common"... they could use the word "ordinary" so as not to confuse you and others.

[novacova]

31 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Clearly you have no understanding of Kreng Jai.

I have no intention of ever tossing a wai or being distracted by or handing out krengjai’s on the road, polite driver-unexpected cold stop = accident. How about keeping the traffic flowing as it should and adapting to the driving conditions and mind your own business on the road. I suspect you drive on egg shells with trepidation and fear which is another dangerous driving trait.

[kwilco]

12 minutes ago, novacova said:

I have no intention of ever tossing a wai or being distracted by or handing out krengjai’s on the road, polite driver-unexpected cold stop = accident. How about keeping the traffic flowing as it should and adapting to the driving conditions and mind your own business on the road. I suspect you drive on egg shells with trepidation and fear which is another dangerous driving trait.

 

THis means it is unlikely you will ever understand or fit in with road safety in Thailand. Being a good driver regardless of country involves understanding and adapting to the driving environment.

Kreng Jai is an aspect of Thai culture th foreigners frequently grossly underestimate because to them it “just sounds too silly”

While "Kreng Jai" is a deeply ingrained cultural value in Thailand, it's important to note that it doesn't necessarily translate directly into safe or responsible driving habits. In fact, some aspects of "Kreng Jai" might even have unintended negative consequences on the road.

The problem is that whilst Thai people understand this, foreigners, even those who have lived for years in Thailand fail to understand even the basics, let alone how it influences driving.

Kreng jai is a double-edged sword  It can mean that drivers are more patient and there are potentially aggressive road rage incidents compared to some Western countries until the Thai cultural limit is exceeded – which of course foreign drivers can’t gauge.

 There is in general less overt hostility between drivers, reducing direct conflicts but as foreigners don’t react “normally” to Kreng jai as they don’t recognise it they then incur the disrespect of other drivers which foreigner misinterpret as Thai bad manners when in fact their behaviour has inadvertently triggered it.

 

There are negative aspects that foreigners don’t realise either…. Apparently Unpredictable driving behaviour due to politeness or hesitation goes over the heads of foreigners when Thai drivers recognise and expect it.

Seemingly a lack of assertiveness in enforcing traffic laws and road discipline, a reluctance to address unsafe driving habits in social settings.

 

[kwilco]

51 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

You have a very strange definition of "common sense"

 

Merriam Webster says:
sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts

 

I have no idea why the phrase includes the word "common"... they could use the word "ordinary" so as not to confuse you and others.

Sorry but you are using schoolboy arguments and being guilty of over occidocentricity – but it does show how foreigners can’t understand the driving environment in Thailand because they insist on applying their own home criteria.

 

Merriam-Webster’s definition of common sense—"sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts"—is too facile because it oversimplifies a concept that is highly subjective, culturally dependent, and not actually "simple" at all.

Simple perception of the situation or Facts assumes universal understanding which is wildly inaccurate – just see how it was being used in reference to driving.

The phrase assumes that all people perceive the same situation in the same way, which is patently not true.

 

Perception is shaped by culture, experience, education, and biases—what seems "obvious" in one society may be completely foreign in another

For instance a Western driver might perceive that stopping at a pedestrian crossing is "common sense," while in Thailand, where pedestrians often yield to traffic, the same assumption doesn't apply. Yet the western driver hasn’t anticipated this (or even driven in Italy!)

 

 Sound and Prudent Judgment is also culturally and situationally variable. What one group considers "prudent judgment" depends on their upbringing and social norms. As we’ve just seen with Kreng Jai.

 

Common sense in driving, for example, varies drastically between countries with different road cultures, enforcement levels, and risk tolerance. The science of road safety is aware of this – but those who play the blame game are stuck in an archaic prism of perspective.

Another instance - In Germany, "sound and prudent judgment" on the Autobahn means driving at 200 km/h in the fast lane. In Thailand, such speeds would be reckless because the roads and driving behaviours are entirely different. But America for several years had a 55 mph speed limit

[gamb00ler]

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Common sense in driving, for example, varies drastically between countries with different road cultures,

OK.... please use your own words because "common sense" isn't meant for you.

[kwilco]

36 minutes ago, novacova said:

I have no intention of ever tossing a wai or being distracted by or handing out krengjai’s on the road, polite driver-unexpected cold stop = accident. How about keeping the traffic flowing as it should and adapting to the driving conditions and mind your own business on the road. I suspect you drive on egg shells with trepidation and fear which is another dangerous driving trait.

 

BTW - most foreigners can't wai properly and don't know who or why. 

I have had a shoe waved at me, years ago due to a mistake I made in my car - if I hadn't been able to wai, I could have been in serious trouble - but most foreigners don't even understand show waving. I've had astounding examples of kreng jai - after working in the motor industries for nearly 20 years I learned from both colleagues and mistakes.

I seriously think that many foreigners who have lived in Thailand for decades do so without knowing anything about Thailand and its culture at all - all they know is other expats and the price of Chang.

[novacova]

16 minutes ago, kwilco said:

THis means it is unlikely you will ever understand or fit in with road safety in Thailand.

I’ve never have had any issues or problems driving here.

17 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Being a good driver regardless of country involves understanding and adapting to the driving environment.

No freaking duh…

18 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Kreng Jai is an aspect of Thai culture th foreigners frequently grossly underestimate because to them it “just sounds too silly”

While "Kreng Jai" is a deeply ingrained cultural value in Thailand, it's important to note that it doesn't necessarily translate directly into safe or responsible driving habits. In fact, some aspects of "Kreng Jai" might even have unintended negative consequences on the road.

The problem is that whilst Thai people understand this, foreigners, even those who have lived for years in Thailand fail to understand even the basics, let alone how it influences driving.

Kreng jai is a double-edged sword  It can mean that drivers are more patient and there are potentially aggressive road rage incidents compared to some Western countries until the Thai cultural limit is exceeded – which of course foreign drivers can’t gauge.

 There is in general less overt hostility between drivers, reducing direct conflicts but as foreigners don’t react “normally” to Kreng jai as they don’t recognise it they then incur the disrespect of other drivers which foreigner misinterpret as Thai bad manners when in fact their behaviour has inadvertently triggered it.

 

There are negative aspects that foreigners don’t realise either…. Apparently Unpredictable driving behaviour due to politeness or hesitation goes over the heads of foreigners when Thai drivers recognise and expect it.

Seemingly a lack of assertiveness in enforcing traffic laws and road discipline, a reluctance to address unsafe driving habits in social settings.

Good grief! Here you are trying to illustrate that Thai drivers have some sort of special supernatural ability of politeness, what a freakin joke! What you fail to understand is humans are generally the same everywhere on this planet. In the US most are polite drivers and just as here there are some who are overly polite and do stupid things like unexpected polite things that cause accidents and aggressive road ragers that cause accidents. Only difference here is that there’s virtually no traffic enforcement to cite the overly polite and aggressive drivers so there’s more mayhem on the roads. 

 

6 minutes ago, kwilco said:

BTW - most foreigners can't wai properly and don't know who or why. 

BTW- The way you’re rambling on here I doubt you get out enough to even know the difference.

 

8 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I have had a shoe waved at me, years ago due to a mistake I made in my car - if I hadn't been able to wai, I could have been in serious trouble -

Well there you have it folks, another farang that has no business driving on the roads…anywhere.

[kwilco]

26 minutes ago, novacova said:

Good grief! Here you are trying to illustrate that Thai drivers have some sort of special supernatural ability of politeness, what a freakin joke!

Reductio ad absurdum - a cheap joke or do you just not get it?

[kwilco]

16 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

You can't grossly misuse a fact. It is what it is.

This is an embarrassingly naive take. Facts don’t magically convey truth just by existing—context, framing, and manipulation determine how they’re understood. If you think stats can't be misused, you either don’t understand them or don’t want to. Cherry-picking data, stripping context, and using selective framing can completely distort reality while still being ‘technically true.’ Your argument is the intellectual equivalent of saying a knife can’t be used for harm because it’s just a piece of metal. It’s a lazy, willfully ignorant stance that ignores how misinformation actually works."

[nauseus]

19 hours ago, kwilco said:

"they" -???

 

 that's exactly the racist rubbish that impedes any progress in understanding road safety in Thailand

When you make a sweeping generalizations like “they are all reckless” or list complaints using "they", you need to define  Who ”they” is - Are you saying every single Thai driver does this?”
Do you think all Thai drivers fit this stereotype. - Road safety issues exist everywhere, and different factors contribute to them, like infrastructure, enforcement, and driving culture. But saying ‘all Thai drivers’ ignores responsible drivers and improvements being made.

“Driving habits vary across countries due to road conditions, enforcement, and training. Instead of blaming all Thai drivers, maybe we should look at the driving education system or road safety laws.”

When you see one bad driver in Thailand, do you assume all Thais drive that way? Would you say the same if you saw a reckless driver in your own country?” You seem unaware of the reality of statistics of driving a car in Thailand compared to other countries

 “If road safety is a concern, what do you think would help improve it? Playing the blame game clearly doesn’t.

What do you suggest – I expect you have a single issue tht you b;eive will provide the answer?

“Yes, road safety is a major public health issue in Thailand like in many other places. But generalizing all Thai drivers as reckless isn’t accurate or fair.

  

 

This quote: “they are all reckless” is false. read the post again and stop being a douche.