How to send an Alzheimer's patient back to the U.K.? - From Bangkok

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, Furioso said:

He's 83 years old. Lives alone. He has no relatives except for a niece 600KM from Heathrow. 

He's got Alzheimer's pretty bad and obviously deteriorating every day. 

He's got 3 or 4 friends they want to send him back to U.K. on a plane. Alone. 

I spoke up and said "someone has to escort him back to the U.K. Period. 

As far as I know they're all similar age retirees, they say they're too busy but it really looks to me like nobody wants to step up. I don't know the guy but I said I'd do it but they said no. They're trying to arrange everything for his solo flight to U.K. but I'm thinking someone needs to escort him back. 

Maybe I'm wrong? 

 

5 hours ago, Furioso said:

They haven't been able to contact her..I dont' know all the details but I think the plan is for him to get off the plane at Heathrow and catch a cab to hospital. No airport staff involved either. Flight is scheduled for first week of March. 

I wonder why his "friends" said no to your kind offer of escorting him back to the UK

UK hospitals don't  admit people on the basis that they have Alzheimer's

Millions of people in the UK are required to privately fund care homes for relatives that have Alzheimer's or dementia with monthly fees   in excess of B340K depending on the level of care required and if additional medical care is required

1st point of call should be British Embassy

If he is unable to make decisions once he reaches the UK he would come under the Court of Protection

We make decisions on financial or welfare matters for people who can’t make decisions at the time they need to be made (they ‘lack mental capacity’).

https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/court-of-protection

Ideally there needs to be someone that acts in the best interest of the person in question to ensure that any assets in Thailand are sold and transferred back to the UK

If he has sufficent assets a care home in Thailand would provide a better quality of life than a care home in the UK at a far lower cost

Frenchman’s rescue in Chiang Mai highlights Thailand as a caring alternative to nursing homes

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2022/02/28/expat-with-alzheimers-rescued-in-chiang-mai/

 

[theblether]

^^ Concur

 

Also, there's a very high risk he will be denied boarding at the airport. Very high risk. The check in staff are not stupid. I know two examples of denied boarding in the last couple of months and I was sent to the medical clinic for clearance due to something as simple as an eye infection. 

 

Showing up unaware of your surroundings? Or being walked through by a pal and abandoned at security/immigration? This has disaster written all over it. 

 

And Vinny41 is correct.  

[vinny41]

The 7 Stages of Alzheimer's Disease

https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/neuroscience-blog/2019/november/stages-of-alzheimers

With the early stages of Alzheimer's or Dementia

Most people wouldn't recognize they have it or family and friends wouldn't be aware other than the occasionally

memory lapses

[vinny41]

AI Overview

To send an Alzheimer's patient back to the UK, you would need to contact a medical transport service specializing in dementia care, coordinate with the patient's family and healthcare providers, ensure proper documentation is prepared including medical records and power of attorney, and make necessary arrangements for travel including flights, accommodation, and assistance at the airport and upon arrival in the UK; it's crucial to prioritize the patient's comfort and safety throughout the process, which may involve familiar items, calming techniques, and a consistent routine. 

Key steps to take:

Consult with healthcare professionals:

Discuss the patient's current condition, travel needs, and any necessary medical support with their doctor, care manager, and a specialist in dementia care. 

Choose a medical transport service:

Research and select a reputable medical transport company experienced in handling patients with dementia, ensuring they can provide appropriate care during the journey. 

Obtain necessary documentation:

Gather all relevant medical records, including diagnosis, medication details, and any power of attorney documents needed for making decisions on the patient's behalf. 

Travel arrangements:

Flight booking: Contact the airline and inform them about the patient's condition, requesting any necessary assistance like priority boarding and extra legroom. 

Airport assistance: Arrange for airport assistance services to guide the patient through security checks and to their gate. 

Accommodations: Book suitable accommodations in the UK, considering the patient's needs and proximity to family or care facilities. 

Prepare the patient for travel:

Familiar items: Bring familiar items like photos, blankets, favorite snacks, or clothing to help the patient feel comfortable. 

Communication: Use clear and simple language, explaining the travel plans in a calm and reassuring manner. 

Medication management: Ensure all medications are properly labeled and readily accessible throughout the journey. 

Consider a companion:

Depending on the patient's needs, arrange for a trusted family member or professional caregiver to accompany them during the trip. 

Important considerations:

Patient's mental state:

Assess the patient's ability to understand the travel plans and potential anxiety levels. 

Legal requirements:

Check any necessary immigration or visa requirements for the patient's return to the UK. 

Care arrangements in the UK:

Arrange for appropriate care upon arrival, whether with family, a care home, or other support services. 

[Furioso]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

 

I wonder why his "friends" said no to your kind offer of escorting him back to the UK

UK hospitals don't  admit people on the basis that they have Alzheimer's

Millions of people in the UK are required to privately fund care homes for relatives that have Alzheimer's or dementia with monthly fees   in excess of B340K depending on the level of care required and if additional medical care is required

1st point of call should be British Embassy

If he is unable to make decisions once he reaches the UK he would come under the Court of Protection

We make decisions on financial or welfare matters for people who can’t make decisions at the time they need to be made (they ‘lack mental capacity’).

https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/court-of-protection

Ideally there needs to be someone that acts in the best interest of the person in question to ensure that any assets in Thailand are sold and transferred back to the UK

If he has sufficent assets a care home in Thailand would provide a better quality of life than a care home in the UK at a far lower cost

Frenchman’s rescue in Chiang Mai highlights Thailand as a caring alternative to nursing homes

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2022/02/28/expat-with-alzheimers-rescued-in-chiang-mai/

 

Yes, this is a strange case where the guy with Alzheimer's has no family(no wife/no ex-wife/no kids). He has an 86 year old sister so that's probably no help and the niece that's 600KM away from Heathrow. His financial situation is ok. I offered assistance out of frustration, basically I was complaining "why don't you or your friends take him back?". and he downplayed it then didn't' want to discuss it further.  We're still on speaking terms though. Good news is sometime during our discussion he mentioned they would contact the British Embassy. His apt. has been sold(he's currently renting) so that's already taken care of. I don't know all the facts as why they're sending him back to the U.K. I can only surmise they think the U.K. NHS will take care of him. He has no home to go back to. He may barely know the niece but once again, he does have a 86 year old sister. At least 2 or 3 of his friends are getting this plan together, and I can vouch for my friend he's been very successful his whole life and usually get things done proper. It's just the whole put him on a plane and send him on his way that I just don't agree with. Seems really unacceptable. Who knows maybe there's a few key points about their plan I don't know about and he'll be fine. Doesn't seem so but you never know. Abourt 6 months ago a quiet guy that lived below me found out he had early stage Alzheimer's. He was running Venom or Cobra I forget. Anyway, his brother came over from the U.K. Sold his condo and escorted him back to the U.K. I installed a new T.V. in that condo after he left. It was completely empty except for a bottle of cologne. It was just so gd sad I don't wish dementia on anyone. 

[OneMoreFarang]

Companies who take care of sick tourist with travel insurance arrange such escorts.

You could contact one of them and ask if they can help you/him.

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Companies who take care of sick tourist with travel insurance arrange such escorts.

You could contact one of them and ask if they can help you/him.

Very expensive

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, Furioso said:

Yes, this is a strange case where the guy with Alzheimer's has no family(no wife/no ex-wife/no kids). He has an 86 year old sister so that's probably no help and the niece that's 600KM away from Heathrow. His financial situation is ok. I offered assistance out of frustration, basically I was complaining "why don't you or your friends take him back?". and he downplayed it then didn't' want to discuss it further.  We're still on speaking terms though. Good news is sometime during our discussion he mentioned they would contact the British Embassy. His apt. has been sold(he's currently renting) so that's already taken care of. I don't know all the facts as why they're sending him back to the U.K. I can only surmise they think the U.K. NHS will take care of him. He has no home to go back to. He may barely know the niece but once again, he does have a 86 year old sister. At least 2 or 3 of his friends are getting this plan together, and I can vouch for my friend he's been very successful his whole life and usually get things done proper. It's just the whole put him on a plane and send him on his way that I just don't agree with. Seems really unacceptable. Who knows maybe there's a few key points about their plan I don't know about and he'll be fine. Doesn't seem so but you never know. Abourt 6 months ago a quiet guy that lived below me found out he had early stage Alzheimer's. He was running Venom or Cobra I forget. Anyway, his brother came over from the U.K. Sold his condo and escorted him back to the U.K. I installed a new T.V. in that condo after he left. It was completely empty except for a bottle of cologne. It was just so gd sad I don't wish dementia on anyone. 

50% over 85 have dementia, something to look forward to...My mum has it, 90, came on last few years, time shifting stage, I'll terminate my life if i come down with dementia, Parkinson's etc 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Lorry said:

Very expensive

Sure, it's expensive.

What do you expect if someone with medical experience, maybe a nurse, has to travel for several days?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

29 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

50% over 85 have dementia, something to look forward to...My mum has it, 90, came on last few years, time shifting stage, I'll terminate my life if i come down with dementia, Parkinson's etc 

But then, you have forgotten that part when it happens... 

[scubascuba3]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But then, you have forgotten that part when it happens... 

True that most people just drift into dementia, Parkinson's etc

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, Furioso said:

11 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As soon as the airline staff see his condition he will likely be refused boarding if he has no one to take care of him during the flight.   The cabin crew, even if they wanted to, are not permitted to take on that responsibility.

he's supposed to leave early March and his passport expires 15 March

What's the relevance of that to my comment regarding refusal of boarding?

[norfolkandchance]

16 hours ago, Furioso said:

He's 83 years old. Lives alone. He has no relatives except for a niece 600KM from Heathrow. 

He's got Alzheimer's pretty bad and obviously deteriorating every day. 

He's got 3 or 4 friends they want to send him back to U.K. on a plane. Alone. 

I spoke up and said "someone has to escort him back to the U.K. Period. 

As far as I know they're all similar age retirees, they say they're too busy but it really looks to me like nobody wants to step up. I don't know the guy but I said I'd do it but they said no. They're trying to arrange everything for his solo flight to U.K. but I'm thinking someone needs to escort him back. 

Maybe I'm wrong? 

Has the gentleman served in the Armed Forces. If so, the Royal British Legion maybe able to help. They have a branch in Pattaya.

[Moonlover]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Companies who take care of sick tourist with travel insurance arrange such escorts.

You could contact one of them and ask if they can help you/him.

And then what? Welcomed with open arms by his 86 year old sister and/or his 83 year old niece? It's a ludicrous idea.

 

11 hours ago, Furioso said:

Good news is sometime during our discussion he mentioned they would contact the British Embassy.

This is a 'must do' @Furioso and quickly. You mentioned that his passport expires soon. Is this idea of getting him on a plane some scatter brained idea by his pals to get him out of the country before it does so?

 

This case must be brought to the attention of the embassy. They will probably need some evidence regarding his medical/mental condition. 

 

They should be able to bring this case before the immigration bureau to have a temporary (at least) extension of stay on medical/humanitarian grounds, whilst this whole sorry mess is sorted out.

 

And then I suggest that the idea of getting him into a care home here in Thailand be looked into.

 

 

[kingstonkid]

18 hours ago, Furioso said:

They haven't been able to contact her..I dont' know all the details but I think the plan is for him to get off the plane at Heathrow and catch a cab to hospital. No airport staff involved either. Flight is scheduled for first week of March. 

Airline staff will assist but there must be an identified adult there to collect the person upon landing.  If ot then they will just leave him and maynot let him board as he will be an issue at the immigration at Heathrow.  Not sure what the Embassy can do but would advise checking with them at least to have it noted.  

 

One sily question is it a direct flight to U.K>

[Captain Flack]

A troll post has been removed.

 

@ignore it this is the health forum where posters seek advice, if you troll again with your unwanted political agenda, I am happy to give you a time out.

[Furioso]

Thanks for all your inputs, they are very helpful. I don't have any new update right now, but I'll see my friend in a couple of days. He did say they were going to contact the embassy, so that's encouraging. I'm pretty sure the original plan to put him on a plane solo isn't going to happen, it doesn't even look possible.

 

Thanks again, I'll post when I find out any new info. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

And then what?

Maybe talk to the authorities over there?

And maybe before they put him on a plane?

It's not really soooooo difficult to think one step ahead. 

[Jaggg88]

16 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As soon as the airline staff see his condition he will likely be refused boarding if he has no one to take care of him during the flight.   The cabin crew, even if they wanted to, are not permitted to take on that responsibility.

This is not correct. You can book an accompanied flight for elderly or disabled people. Airline staff will look after him from check-in to arrival. They look after everything but he will need a fit-to-fly certificate

[Moonlover]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

And then what?

 

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe talk to the authorities over there?

And maybe before they put him on a plane?

It's not really soooooo difficult to think one step ahead. 

You clearly don't know the UK very well.

 

My suggestions to the O/P come directly from one whose mother froze to death in the snow due to the carelessness of a very uncaring care home in the UK.

 

It's just one of a number of reasons why I'm in this country, not back there!

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

You clearly don't know the UK very well.

 

My suggestions to the O/P come directly from one whose mother froze to death in the snow due to the carelessness of a very uncaring care home in the UK.

 

It's just one of a number of reasons why I'm in this country, not back there!

 

I know a couple of people who had to return to the UK because they run out of money and had medical problems in Thailand.

They all were taken care of and lived a couple more years.

Is it perfect? Sure not. But reading above post it seems like this guy can't live alone in Thailand and his "friends" are not able or willing to help him in Thailand.

[PJPom]

If this was up to me I think a care home in Thailand would be far more suitable. I am from Australia and the care home situation there is very expensive and in many instances is dreadful, I have knowledge of this having had a partner who worked in the care industry, note, INDUSTRY.

Thailand was being widely promoted in Australia as an ideal destination for aged care and from the reports it was rated much higher than both the UK and Australia.

For myself I couldn't imagine anything more horrifying than being dumped  at Heathrow , mentally unaware of where I am and Knowing nobody.

Suggest a care Home in Thailand.....Please.

[OJAS]

11 hours ago, Lorry said:

Very expensive

 

So what alternative suggestion do you have, then?

 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Airline staff will assist but there must be an identified adult there to collect the person upon landing.  If ot then they will just leave him and maynot let him board as he will be an issue at the immigration at Heathrow.  Not sure what the Embassy can do but would advise checking with them at least to have it noted.  

 

One sily question is it a direct flight to U.K>

 

Might be worthwhile @Furioso checking specifically with relevant airlines what their policies are on transporting severely-handicapped individuals unaccompanied. Assuming that the answer to your "silly question" is in the affirmative, these would likely be THAI or EVA (although BA do, I gather, now operate flights between BKK and LGW).

[Sheryl]

We don't know what his physical condition looks like, he might be ambulatory and unremarkable in appearance in which case airline would be none the wiser and let him check in. Quite possible  for someone with worsening dementia to look normal enough at a glance. 

 

But getting by himself through Swampy onto the correct flight, and then at Heathrow airport out to a cab and a hospital, all on his own, is not feasible for someone with dementia. 

 

In addition there does not seem to be a plan for his care once in the UK.  Just showing up at a hospital when what he needs is longterm placement in a care home (for which there may be a long wait lists) is not a viable plan. 

 

Placement in a care home in Thailand may be an option IF  he can afford  it. In which regard it is imperative that someone reliable has power of attorney to manage his finances and legal affairs (including visa) for him.

 

The best place in Thsiland taking cost, quality and long term reliability    into account is MCKean in Chiang Mai . They have a memory Unit. 

 

https://mckean.or.th/

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

They should be able to bring this case before the immigration bureau to have a temporary (at least) extension of stay on medical/humanitarian grounds, whilst this whole sorry mess is sorted out.

 

Unfortunately a major stumbling-block here is that:

 

16 hours ago, Furioso said:

his passport expires 15 March

 

The Embassy would only be prepared to issue him with an Emergency Travel Document (ETD) if he had specific plans for travelling to the UK. And it is, I think, unlikely that Immigration would be prepared to issue him with a temporary medical extension in an ETD in any event.

[Moonlover]

55 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

Unfortunately a major stumbling-block here is that:

 

 

The Embassy would only be prepared to issue him with an Emergency Travel Document (ETD) if he had specific plans for travelling to the UK. And it is, I think, unlikely that Immigration would be prepared to issue him with a temporary medical extension in an ETD in any event.

That's what it says on the tin. But I very much doubt whether these issues will be a hinderance when two sensible people. one from the UK consular service and one a ranking immigration officer sit down and have a chat about this serious humanitarian situation.

 

I shall interested to hear what the outcome is of this distressing case.

[Sheryl]

17 hours ago, Furioso said:

he's supposed to leave early March and his passport expires 15 March

Just noticed this, they need to start working on passport extension straightaway. And extension of stay in Thailand, as I assume that current expiration does not go beyond current passport expiration.

 

Situation will be dire is his passport and permission to stay expire while he is still here. and it really does not sound likely they can get him back to UK before 15 March. He could end up in the Immigration detention center, literally.

 

I am curious as to just what they think simply showing up at a hospital in the UK with Alzheimers is going to achieve? He will not qualify for hospital admission just because of dementia. Care home placement in UK takes time and costs money. Where would he stay in the meantime? Who would handler the arrangements?

 

Not feasible to send him back to the UK unless/until there is a plan in place addressing these points.

 

 

[Furioso]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

We don't know what his physical condition looks like, he might be ambulatory and unremarkable in appearance in which case airline would be none the wiser and let him check in. Quite possible  for someone with worsening dementia to look normal enough at a glance. 

 

But getting by himself through Swampy onto the correct flight, and then at Heathrow airport out to a cab and a hospital, all on his own, is not feasible for someone with dementia. 

 

In addition there does not seem to be a plan for his care once in the UK.  Just showing up at a hospital when what he needs is longterm placement in a care home (for which there may be a long wait lists) is not a viable plan. 

 

Placement in a care home in Thailand may be an option IF  he can afford  it. In which regard it is imperative that someone reliable has power of attorney to manage his finances and legal affairs (including visa) for him.

 

The best place in Thsiland taking cost, quality and long term reliability    into account is MCKean in Chiang Mai . They have a memory Unit. 

 

https://mckean.or.th/

Good points Sheryl. To summarize what I know, please forgive me for repeating some of this info.  My friend knows him because he's part of a small group of friends who get together about 2 times a year for dinner in Bangkok. I think they're ex-golfing buddies.  And yes, the guy who has dementia is able to walk fine, seems spritely but he's forgetting a lot. The friends have decided he needs help as his condition is obviously going to get worse. He sold his apartment, is currently renting. I think his financial situation is just "ok". I don't know how much care would cost here in Thailand, maybe that's why they want to send him back to U.K. He's 83, has no family except an 86 year old sister and a niece who he may barely know.

 

As a group they are trying to arrange everything and I believe they're going to contact the Embassy, which is very important as they will probably learn A LOT about how to assist an ailing British ex-pat in Thailand. They're going to find out they can't just put him on a plane solo. Also these friends may not be very close, just ex golfing buddies who happen to care enough to try and help this guy. I can kind of relate as I'm here with no family and only have a few casual friends scattered between here and Las Vegas.

 

He's 83 and alone and now he needs help but barely has anyone in his life to help him. I wonder how common a situation like this arises?

[Harrisfan]

23 hours ago, Furioso said:

He's 83 years old. Lives alone. He has no relatives except for a niece 600KM from Heathrow. 

He's got Alzheimer's pretty bad and obviously deteriorating every day. 

He's got 3 or 4 friends they want to send him back to U.K. on a plane. Alone. 

I spoke up and said "someone has to escort him back to the U.K. Period. 

As far as I know they're all similar age retirees, they say they're too busy but it really looks to me like nobody wants to step up. I don't know the guy but I said I'd do it but they said no. They're trying to arrange everything for his solo flight to U.K. but I'm thinking someone needs to escort him back. 

Maybe I'm wrong? 

Why don't you escort him or you too busy as well?