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Posted
8 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

There are fairly high thresholds for filing Form 8938. It isn't linked to whether one has to file a tax return, but instead to the aggregate value of specified financial assets held outside the US.  

 

For single persons resident outside the US, the threshold is the aggregate value of specified foreign financial assets of $200,000 or more at the end of the year or $300,000 or more at any time during the year. For single persons resident in the US, the thresholds are $50,000 and $75,000. Higher thresholds apply to those filing jointly, both for residents of the US and non-residents.

 

Details here:  https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8938#en_US_2020_publink100045144

And for married couples the thresholds are the aggregate value of specified foreign financial assets of $400,000 or more at the end of the year or $600,000 or more at any time during the year

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Posted
9 hours ago, rumak said:

i hope y'all realize (from the emojis)  that I am just joking

 

Ah, yes,🤪the emoji known as Zany Face, used if something is silly but funny.

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. — George Bernard Shaw

 

Posted

expattaxthailand yesterday 20 February, indicated that several folks with an account at the Bangkok Bank have received the FATCA/CRS letters that must be filled in and signed.  Readers will recall that in Dec of last year, Kasikorn Bank sent out the same letters which certify whether you are an American (FATCA or CRS) person and that the banks are required by the US or other countries' tax agencies in order for the local banks to continue serving you.  If one fails to certify the necessary information, then supposedly, the banks could either lock you out or close the account altogether.  One can google Kasikorn explanation on filling out the forms or check with expattaxthailand.com and they too have the info on filling out the documents.  The text is Thai and English and is fairly self explanatory in what is needed.  Good luck.  Once filed in, W9 can be downloaded from the US IRS website and needs to be filled in by American Citizens along with the FATCA document and taken to the bank also.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Presnock said:

If one fails to certify the necessary information, then supposedly, the banks could either lock you out or close the account altogether.  

No big loss. Just use crypto and under your mattress. Boom, no thai taxes, problem solved

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Posted
2 minutes ago, hotsun said:

No big loss. Just use crypto and under your mattress. Boom, no thai taxes, problem solved

Up to each  individual - I always believe in following the rules of what country I live in.  Here, I know the rules, follow those rules - have an LTR (WP) and only a US govt civil service pension so I don't have any Thai tax ID nor am I required to file for taxes as I have no assessable income.  good luck to you and all the other expats out there.  I am filling out the FATCA  form and W9.

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Posted
18 hours ago, rumak said:

Here is the most important 2 facts about FATCA :

 

The Form 8938 must be attached to the taxpayer's annual tax return.

U.S. taxpayers who do not have to file an income tax return for the tax year do not have to file Form 8938, regardless of the value of their specified foreign financial assets.

 

You may also have to file FinCEN Form 114, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) PDF. 

 

These both have been in effect for many years .  I hate doing these type of "reports" ( but i hate many things us "citizens" of the world have to do.

 

FinCEN has to be filed online.... not difficult .

I do not need to file 8938 (don't ask why)...... but if you are rich enough to have to file a tax return .... then i guess you'd better look into how to do Form 8938

 

Note:  US expats living outside of US  do get all of their SS benefits.... unlike many countries that have big restrictions on payments for those living abroad

I have no intention of ever being so foolish to bring hundreds of thousand dollars here to put into a Thai bank - but my wife will once I pass, so I have pre-filled out the forms including the GIIN # and addresses for her banks.  Fortunately the form is not dated as to tax year so the forms can be pre-filled out.  Simply by waiting to the next tax year she can dodge that bullet, but waiting 11-months may be beyond her.

 

The form is kind of confusing each page 1 requires a total amount of assets and interest, but it does not appear allow you to append the account specific information on page 2 to be rolled into a single - I recommend that she go with a tax professional at least for the first year.  

Posted
On 2/20/2025 at 9:58 PM, dddave said:

A very dear friend is kind of wondering if he has neglected to file an FBAR report in past years, what are the consequences of doing it now?

from what I read about the FBAR, which I have done for years, it says if one hasn't filed one previously, but then files one's missed that the DOJ doesn't penalize that person.  Bes to file for all that you should have, or write to them and ask what the procedure is you didn't realize you needed to file that document.  If you continue ignoring the responsibility then there is a penalty though I forget what!

Posted
On 2/20/2025 at 10:14 PM, NoDisplayName said:

 

Is this about FATCA or CRS?

 

The Kasikorn emails were sent out at the end of January for existing customers to update records if their home tax jurisdiction information had not been entered.  Came about with Thailand implementing CRS.

 

Shouldn't be FATCA.  Americans have been filling in IRS forms around the world when opening foreign accounts for many years.

Both forms are included.  The first one you certify that you are or are not a US citizen and then some other about dual tax residents, etc.  The FATCA part is for American tax residents and for which one needs to download W9 form from the IRS website to go along with the FATCA portion.  One is for the US only, CRS is for others but same forms as the Kasikorn bank in December, this is a requirement of the governments that signed on to them and failure to provide the documents as rquested by the banks could cancel your account as they HAVE to report that data on your account.

Posted
23 hours ago, hotsun said:

No big loss. Just use crypto and under your mattress. Boom, no thai taxes, problem solved

yes as of now but if one believes that crypto will remain in the "dark" zone, I don't believe that govts will accept that and will eventually put some kind of control on those funds too.  IMHO anyway.

Posted
On 2/21/2025 at 10:25 AM, hotsun said:

No big loss. Just use crypto and under your mattress. Boom, no thai taxes, problem solved

 

where can you access funds from Crypto without using a bank. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Presnock said:

Both forms are included.  The first one you certify that you are or are not a US citizen and then some other about dual tax residents, etc.  The FATCA part is for American tax residents and for which one needs to download W9 form from the IRS website to go along with the FATCA portion.  One is for the US only, CRS is for others but same forms as the Kasikorn bank in December, this is a requirement of the governments that signed on to them and failure to provide the documents as rquested by the banks could cancel your account as they HAVE to report that data on your account.

All international banks have to exchange documentation on their foreign customers in order to contnue doing internatonal banking.  If your bank does not do this process, then it may affect your international banking.  If one does not believe that this could happen as mentioned in the main document, then just google the international banking agreements signed by the US and the rest of the world.   

Posted
21 hours ago, mudcat said:

I have no intention of ever being so foolish to bring hundreds of thousand dollars here to put into a Thai bank - but my wife will once I pass,

 

My wife now has her very own individual Schwab International brokerage account.  When I am no longer here, my assets will be deposited there.  She only has to bring in what she needs, and can remain invested outside Thailand.

 

In the meantime, I can gift her a million baht a year, so that when the time comes, she has funds available.  The IRS can take up to a year to produce the tax clearance certificate needed to release your brokerage account.  (I believe not needed if handled by a stateside law firm),  We did confirm with TRD that gifting rules apply to gifts made into an offshore account.

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Posted
On 2/20/2025 at 2:37 PM, kingstonkid said:

Not sure if it is posted anywhere else

 

I just got a notice tht BB is sending out emails about FATCA and the same forms tht Kasikorn did.  

 

Guess it is correct we can expect everyone to get them if you have an account

Going to guess that these would not be going out to US citizens as they would have been filed out when opening there accounts, at least I had to in the past.

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Posted
1 hour ago, flexomike said:

Going to guess that these would not be going out to US citizens as they would have been filed out when opening there accounts, at least I had to in the past.

 

FATCA didn't exist before 2010. I opened my bank account 10 years before that. I'm sure many others also had accounts pre-FATCA.

 

I ended up filling the forms out at Thanachart a few years ago because they forced me to come in disabling my ATM card.

Posted

Has anyone received communication from Bangkok Bank regarding this subject?

 

I haven't, no email, no thai post letter, no notification in the app.

 

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

FATCA didn't exist before 2010. I opened my bank account 10 years before that. I'm sure many others also had accounts pre-FATCA.

 

I ended up filling the forms out at Thanachart a few years ago because they forced me to come in disabling my ATM card.

I have the forms from expattaxthailand as some of their customers had BB accounts and did receive the forms.  Exact same forms.  Banks must provide the information on the account holders.  If BB already had the necessary info they could send in the forms but without one's signature stating that you are a US citizen, plus filling our IS form-9  providing your local address in Thailand, confirming your ss# and your local acct number.  Since we are required to do FBAR and 1040 reports on our income, those numbers all have to add up someplace being equal.  I will check this week with the BB locally and see what their story is.  

Posted
3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

My wife now has her very own individual Schwab International brokerage account.  When I am no longer here, my assets will be deposited there.  She only has to bring in what she needs, and can remain invested outside Thailand.

 

Assuming your wife is Thai, have you posted anywhere about the process you went thru to get a Schwab International brokerage account for her? Is so, would appreciate a link. If not, maybe you could write up something on that?

 

Also, is Schwab still requiring an opening $25K USD for their international accounts?

 

I've often wondered whether creating a Schwab International account for the Thai wife would be a helpful/convenient way of handling estate planning issues for her as my Schwab U.S. accounts already all list her as my beneficiary.

 

PS - are there any other country tax filing obligations for a Thai national residing in Thailand as regards a Schwab international account?

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Assuming your wife is Thai, have you posted anywhere about the process you went thru to get a Schwab International brokerage account for her? Is so, would appreciate a link. If not, maybe you could write up something on that?

 

Also, is Schwab still requiring an opening $25K USD for their international accounts?

 

I've often wondered whether creating a Schwab International account for the Thai wife would be a helpful/convenient way of handling estate planning issues for her as my Schwab U.S. accounts already all list her as my beneficiary.

 

 

Who knows what tax system will be in effect in the future, possibly in the near future.  The Thai rd will continue to search far and wide for any single baht!

 

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Assuming your wife is Thai, have you posted anywhere about the process you went thru to get a Schwab International brokerage account for her? Is so, would appreciate a link. If not, maybe you could write up something on that?

 

Also, is Schwab still requiring an opening $25K USD for their international accounts?

 

I've often wondered whether creating a Schwab International account for the Thai wife would be a helpful/convenient way of handling estate planning issues for her as my Schwab U.S. accounts already all list her as my beneficiary.

 

 

 

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Posted
6 hours ago, Presnock said:

from what I read about the FBAR, which I have done for years, it says if one hasn't filed one previously, but then files one's missed that the DOJ doesn't penalize that person.  Bes to file for all that you should have, or write to them and ask what the procedure is you didn't realize you needed to file that document.  If you continue ignoring the responsibility then there is a penalty though I forget what!

 

I think the penalty for not filing the FBAR is fifty percent of the value of each account for each year not filed, subject to a minimum of $10,000 per account per year. The statute of limitations on FBAR filing is six years.

 

In reality, I don't think they actually levy the penalties in full. I read an article years ago that said that the DoJ was avoiding doing that because this level of punishment was very disproportionate to the injury caused and would probably be struck down by the courts or be ruled unconstitutional.

Posted
42 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Has anyone received communication from Bangkok Bank regarding this subject?

 

I haven't, no email, no thai post letter, no notification in the app.

 

 

 

Nada for me in BKK as of today..

 

But as I mentioned above, I'm pretty sure BKKB had me fill out a FATCA form some years ago when I opened a new account at one of their branches, because they told me I couldn't transfer the existing account I had at the time to the new branch I wanted to use.

 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Who knows what tax system will be in effect in the future, possibly in the near future.  The Thai rd will continue to search far and wide for any single baht!

 

 

 

You   might  note, I specifically asked about OTHER COUNTRY tax filing obligations....not the Thai ones.

 

Posted
7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Nada for me in BKK as of today..

 

But as I mentioned above, I'm pretty sure BKKB had me fill out a FATCA form some years ago when I opened a new account at one of their branches, because they told me I couldn't transfer the existing account I had at the time to the new branch I wanted to use.

 

Actually, they did an agreement in 2016 setting up all the procedures a 12-page document.  But Thailand didn't enter into full signing until April of 2024.  So, since they knew what was coming, maybe some banks got ahead of the game and prepared to enter fully as soon as Thailand signed it.  I plan to ask the local BB this coming week.  If I see nothing else from anyone about it, I will pass on what the bank tells me.  

Posted

Probably already stated, but nothing new about that, along with the FBAR reporting, if you let your account total $10k at any time.   Why I put it in the wife's account every 3 months.  

 

One less thing to file and be bothered with.  Although still poor enough, not to file anything at tax time :coffee1:

 

off topic ... I filed a FBA in 2020, with a notation (which I should have omitted), stating too poor to file a 1040 ... but feel free to verify.   

 

Should have left that part out.  They did send a notice, they were going to file 1040 for me.  2022, got a letter stating, processing the 1040 was delayed, and will advise.   2024, got a letter stating 1040 completed, and yes, you're too poor to file.   Four years for them to complete a 1040, and people wonder how they are so inefficient and a waste of tax payers money.

Posted
5 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

In the meantime, I can gift her a million baht a year, so that when the time comes, she has funds available.  The IRS can take up to a year to produce the tax clearance certificate needed to release your brokerage account.  (I believe not needed if handled by a stateside law firm),  We did confirm with TRD that gifting rules apply to gifts made into an offshore account.


Nice share,  and no tax liability for you as the gift giver ( despite some of the ludicrous theories you can read here).

 

The real question is, why aren’t you gifting her more to get closer to the 20M per year exemption?
 

Surely she could find some use for the funds… maybe a handbag collection?

 

Posted
3 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I think the penalty for not filing the FBAR is fifty percent of the value of each account for each year not filed, subject to a minimum of $10,000 per account per year. The statute of limitations on FBAR filing is six years.

 

In reality, I don't think they actually levy the penalties in full. I read an article years ago that said that the DoJ was avoiding doing that because this level of punishment was very disproportionate to the injury caused and would probably be struck down by the courts or be ruled unconstitutional.

I am not sure about the penalty, but the IRS does have what they call a streamlined procedure which they describe the criteria and some of the steps here: 

 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-taxpayers-residing-outside-the-united-states

 

Went through the process - five years of missed FinCEN 114s for my wife and three years of amended 1040 for us.  No penalties but it did cost a little bit of late payments and interest and a LOT of research through our financial records.  In the end I was glad I no longer had it hanging over us going forward.  The good faith 'non-willful' reason was that I (the tax filer in the family) did not realize that my wife's remarriage accounts needed to be reported.  

 

Some tax preparation firm offer to do the filing, but you are still on the hook for the research and coming up with a believable reason you failed to file.

 

 

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Posted
6 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

My wife now has her very own individual Schwab International brokerage account.  When I am no longer here, my assets will be deposited there.  She only has to bring in what she needs, and can remain invested outside Thailand.

 

In the meantime, I can gift her a million baht a year, so that when the time comes, she has funds available.  The IRS can take up to a year to produce the tax clearance certificate needed to release your brokerage account.  (I believe not needed if handled by a stateside law firm),  We did confirm with TRD that gifting rules apply to gifts made into an offshore account.

 

We have chosen to go the other way as once my wife inherits into a U.S. account she will be subject to taxes on her remittances - but if she inherits directly to Thailand remittances are not subject to inheritance or income taxes.  I have instructed our executors to note on the wires.

 

Tax Exempt under Inheritance Tax Act Section 3.2 and Thai Revenue Code Section 42.10.

 

Section 3 This Act shall not apply to:
(1) an inheritance from a deceased person who dies prior to the date on which
this Act comes into force;
(2) an inheritance received from a deceased person by the spouse of the
deceased person.

 

Section 42 The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the
purpose of income tax calculation:
(10) Income derived from an inheritance.11
11R.C.A.A. (No. 40) B.E. 2558

Posted
4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Also, is Schwab still requiring an opening $25K USD for their international accounts?

 

I've often wondered whether creating a Schwab International account for the Thai wife would be a helpful/convenient way of handling estate planning issues for her as my Schwab U.S. accounts already all list her as my beneficiary.

 

PS - are there any other country tax filing obligations for a Thai national residing in Thailand as regards a Schwab international account?

 

A few notes on that:

 

Easy online account setup, takes 10-15 minutes at most.

Need scan of passport ID page, and something proving residence, like a utility bill.  We used her ID card, they had it translated.

I used my Navy Federal statement with Thai address for my account.

No beneficiaries permitted on this account.  Your domestic Schwab account will require the IRS tax clearance (may take a year!) unless you have a stateside law firm handle your will.

No minimum balance.

Can open with zero deposit.

 

Wife must fill out W8-BEN form and list her Thai ID number to qualify for DTA benefits. 

DTA provides for 15% tax withholding on dividends and interest, instead of the standard 30%.

No tax on capital gains!!!!!

Schwab sends withholding direct to IRS and reports.  No need for wife to fill out a US tax form.

 

I will sell funds in my Fidelity brokerage, pay any US tax on capital gains there, send cash to Schwab.

Well under the gift caps, even for foreign spouses, so no US reporting required for me.

We will print off an annual "gift transfer certificate" each year with all relevant info to declare her annual xmas present

I am setting up a Standing Order to allow online transfers from my Schwab account to hers.  One way only, cash only, so no questions about this being a shared account, and no problems with transferring shares with a different cost basis than NAV.

She will buy capital appreciation funds with minimal dividends to reduce any tax withholding.

 

Posted
2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

The real question is, why aren’t you gifting her more to get closer to the 20M per year exemption?

 

Why make myself expendable?

 

Planning to start off with a million a year until we figure everything out.  Can make larger transfers as I approach my "use-by" date.

Posted
40 minutes ago, mudcat said:

We have chosen to go the other way as once my wife inherits into a U.S. account she will be subject to taxes on her remittances - but if she inherits directly to Thailand remittances are not subject to inheritance or income taxes.

 

Either inheritance or gift, she won't owe tax on the principal.  Capital gains (not taxed in US for non-resident alien), if ever remitted, will be taxable as ordinary income, but she'll keep that portion below her TEDA, so still no tax.

 

And as long as she keeps it offshore, she can earn 10% or higher on her investment, as opposed to 1% here in Thailand.

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