Bangkok Bank Now Doing FATCA

[mudcat]

Sorry, did not realize your wife was not a citizen.  For us the SSA survivor benefit should be around $2,000 per month so not too worried about her bank interest.

[anrcaccount]

12 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Why make myself expendable?

 

Planning to start off with a million a year until we figure everything out.  Can make larger transfers as I approach my "use-by" date.

 

Ha yes, I was being tongue in cheek, but yes, makes complete sense!

 

 

[JimGant]

On 2/21/2025 at 3:02 PM, mudcat said:

recommend that she go with a tax professional at least for the first year. 

Why not just make sure she over withholds taxes, and/or pays a surplus in estimated taxes? As such (unless she has self-employment income over $400) she is NOT required to file a US 1040 -- therefore, not required to file a FATCA Form 8938.

 

Thus, the money she donates to Uncle Sam can be setup to approximate what she'd pay to a tax professional -- thus a wash. I've set this up for my wife, as she'd have a hard time collecting required info for the tax professional, like 1099s, as she's not computer literate -- and going paperless is becoming extinct. Plus, this would have to be done by mail to someone outside Chiang Mai, since there are no tax professionals here dealing with US tax returns, at least that I know of. Thus, a simple way to avoid the hassle -- and one less problem for the wife when I croak.

[Presnock]

5 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why not just make sure she over withholds taxes, and/or pays a surplus in estimated taxes? As such (unless she has self-employment income over $400) she is NOT required to file a US 1040 -- therefore, not required to file a FATCA Form 8938.

 

Thus, the money she donates to Uncle Sam can be setup to approximate what she'd pay to a tax professional -- thus a wash. I've set this up for my wife, as she'd have a hard time collecting required info for the tax professional, like 1099s, as she's not computer literate -- and going paperless is becoming extinct. Plus, this would have to be done by mail to someone outside Chiang Mai, since there are no tax professionals here dealing with US tax returns, at least that I know of. Thus, a simple way to avoid the hassle -- and one less problem for the wife when I croak.

since she is not a US. citizen, she can inform the the pension provider not to withhold US taxes as per the DTA, taxable in US only if person (in this case your wife) is a Thai citizen, then she would have to pay thai taxes on that ss income but she can petition the US not to withhold taxes as she has to pay taxes in Thailand.  just saying...

[mudcat]

1. I was referring to the year of my death when our executors will be around to help but the corpus of my estate will pay for a professional to file her f1040 as my widow, and certainly if she needs to file f8938.  The other variable is at what portion of my Social Security gets taxed  - currently at 85% - if I should die earlier in the year it would be either exempt or at 50%, so I imagine there will be over-withholding if I make it past one more Songkran.  

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Why not

 

Hi Jim!  I have an unrelated but related question, and this seems to be the only active tax thread now.

 

Got my 1099's and was figuring US taxes last night, and something came up that is dear to all our hearts.  Foreign tax credit.  In other threads we talk about DTA's letting us take 1:1 tax credit if Thailand taxes our already taxed income, or home countries having to eat the tax if we pay Thailand tax.  But nobody knows.

 

As to the US, it doesn't seem to work that way.  I've got $1500 foreign tax paid via ETF's, and a tax due of $250 due to an unexpected late-Dec special distribution.  I try to manage investments to avoid paying tax, and was at $63K total income.

 

Putting the foreign tax on a 1116 has me calculate the percentage of foreign income in my total income, and using that % to calculate the amount of credit.  In my anecdote, I can only take $75, but can carry forward to next year.

 

Alternatively, I can skip the 1116, and take up to $300 of 1:1 tax reduction, bringing this year's tax due to zero, but losing the carry forward and potential use of 1116 in the future.

 

Do I have that about right?

Any word yet on how Thailand manages foreign tax credits.

 

 

[JimGant]

6 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Putting the foreign tax on a 1116 has me calculate the percentage of foreign income in my total income, and using that % to calculate the amount of credit.  In my anecdote, I can only take $75, but can carry forward to next year.

 

Alternatively, I can skip the 1116, and take up to $300 of 1:1 tax reduction, bringing this year's tax due to zero, but losing the carry forward and potential use of 1116 in the future.

 

Do I have that about right?

Yep. And if filing MFJ, you can take up to $600 without the need for a Form 1116. For years I've taken a tax credit for the 15% withholding Bangkok Bank takes on my savings accounts. Sure beats filing a Thai tax return to get that nitnoy money back -- which I certainly wouldn't bother to do -- but plugging in that amount in TurboTax is slam dunk -- just make sure you put in the ersatz 1099 you build for Bangkok Bank the foreign tax withheld in the proper 1099 line -- otherwise you'll go nuts trying to figure out how to deduct it.

 

If you do file a Thai tax return, with taxes paid on foreign remitted income, this is where a Form 1116 may be needed, if a tax credit is considerable - and you need to take advantage of the credit carried forward (and backward). And, because the Internal Revenue Code says foreign tax credits can only by taken against foreign taxes paid on FOREIGN income -- but you're taking a credit for taxes paid on remitted US income -- you need to file a Form 8833 to have the treaty trump this part of the Code (but maybe you don't, which is too long a discussion to go into here).

 

6 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Any word yet on how Thailand manages foreign tax credits.

 

This gets interesting, because there's so much discussion on the forum about taking a tax credit against Thai taxes -- for taxes paid on same income in your home country. But actually there are very few circumstances where, per most DTAs, this would be dictated (rental income is the only example I can think of). Example -- US DTA: Private pensions are taxable exclusively by Thailand. But, since I have to pay the US tax on this pension -- because the saving clause overrides the treaty language -- could I then get a credit against my Thai taxes for this US tax bill per the DTA language? No, at least not per the DTA. The country having primary/exclusionary taxation rights gets to keep all taxes collected -- and doesn't have to absorb a tax credit; however, the US, in this example, being secondary taxation authority, would have to absorb a tax credit for taxes paid to Thailand. Now, Thailand could, if it wanted, say (as maybe they have -- hard to decipher) that they'll allow a tax credit for taxes paid to your home country -- even tho' the treaty says they get to keep the whole enchilada. Why they would want to give away taxes they're rightfully entitled to -- is beyond me. But, it certainly wouldn't violate any double taxation restrictions......

 

How would they take a credit, since there are no lines on the tax return to do so? I guess you would just have to spreadsheet the problem, figuring out what your final Thai tax bill would be, if they would absorb a tax credit for your US taxes paid. Then, you would enter an imaginary taxable income figure that would arrive at this final Thai tax bill, that included the credit. And, of course, it the tax credit -- per spreadsheet computation -- completely wiped out whatever Thai taxes were due on this foreign income -- you'd just not include this foreign income on your Thai tax return.

 

Weird sh**, this. I hope there is somebody home at TRD dealing with the problem.

 

 

 

 

[dddave]

On 2/22/2025 at 3:28 PM, bamnutsak said:

Has anyone received communication from Bangkok Bank regarding this subject?

 

I haven't, no email, no thai post letter, no notification in the app.

 

 

I have not heard anything from BKB.  I originally opened my account in Bangkok in 2004  which is still active. 

I recently opened a new BKB account in Pattaya.  I MAY have unknowingly signed a FATCA document when I opened the Pattaya account as there seemed to be more signatures required than when I bought a house.

[NoDisplayName]

25 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yep. And if filing MFJ, you can take up to $600 without the need for a Form 1116. For years I've taken a tax credit for the 15% withholding Bangkok Bank takes on my savings accounts. Sure beats filing a Thai tax return to get that nitnoy money back -- which I certainly wouldn't bother to do -- but plugging in that amount in TurboTax is slam dunk -- just make sure you put in the ersatz 1099 you build for Bangkok Bank the foreign tax withheld in the proper 1099 line -- otherwise you'll go nuts trying to figure out how to deduct it.

 

Thanks so much for the response.

 

This crap is insane!  I want to keep it as simple as possible.

 

Filing married separate in the US, as don't want a US ITIN for the wife.   I keep my cap gains to a couple dollars below where I would owe tax.  So no US tax, or foreign tax paid by ETF's, to claim a credit against.  No need for a foreign tax credit....but useful in cases like this year where an unexpected distribution put me over the top.  $300 should cover it.

 

I file a Thai return (too easy!) to get a refund of interest/dividend withholding.  No assessable remittances = null return = no tax credits.   I declare Thai interest and dividends on my 1040, with the Thai tax return as documentary evidence if audited.  That's factored into the spreadsheet income calculations when doing the year end cost basis increase sales taking capital gains to make $60K including dividends.

 

Uncle Sam is happy, yet no tax paid.

Uncle Somchai is happy, also no tax paid.

[gamb00ler]

22 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

That's factored into the spreadsheet income calculations when doing the year end cost basis increase sales taking capital gains to make $60K including dividends.

A guy called Glenn Reeves publishes a spreadsheet that will basically do your US taxes.  He updates his spreadsheet every year and it is ready for tax time every year (so far).  It is donation ware.  I find it very convenient when at year end I want to set my IRA withdrawal to the max while remaining in the zero tax rate bracket.  Of course.... it's an excel sheet.

 

https://sites.google.com/view/incometaxspreadsheet/home?authuser=0

 

 

P.S. - does anybody know why the links I post end up just being unclickable as ordinary text?

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

45 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yep. And if filing MFJ, you can take up to $600 without the need for a Form 1116. For years I've taken a tax credit for the 15% withholding Bangkok Bank takes on my savings accounts. Sure beats filing a Thai tax return to get that nitnoy money back -- which I certainly wouldn't bother to do -- but plugging in that amount in TurboTax is slam dunk -- just make sure you put in the ersatz 1099 you build for Bangkok Bank the foreign tax withheld in the proper 1099 line -- otherwise you'll go nuts trying to figure out how to deduct it.

 

 

 

Don't the IRS rules require that a taxpayer claim any foreign tax refunds applicable and then only claim the tax credit for the net amount after the foreign tax refund? 

 

Simply ceding the entire 15% to the Thai taxman wouldn't seem to pass muster in this regard if a refund could be obtained. Or no?

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

22 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

A guy called Glenn Reeves publishes a spreadsheet that will basically do your US taxes.  He updates his spreadsheet every year and it is ready for tax time every year (so far).  It is donation ware.  I find it very convenient when at year end I want to set my IRA withdrawal to the max while remaining in the zero tax rate bracket.  Of course.... it's an excel sheet.

 

https://sites.google.com/view/incometaxspreadsheet/home?authuser=0

 

 

Hey, thanks for that.  I see he's got 2024 tax spreadsheet, and a 2025 forecast spreadsheet available.

 

Nice, considering we're over halfway through tax filing season, and TRD still hasn't published the much-anticipated 2024 Engilsh forms. Sad, considering all they need to do is put "2024" on the top line of last year's form!

[treetops]

2 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

P.S. - does anybody know why the links I post end up just being unclickable as ordinary text?

 

It's a recently introduced feature in the forum software and most links now appear like this and require cut/paste to access.  There are some sites I think that are "trusted" and the links clickable.

[NoDisplayName]

12 minutes ago, treetops said:

 

It's a recently introduced feature in the forum software and most links now appear like this and require cut/paste to access.  There are some sites I think that are "trusted" and the links clickable.

 

Highlight the link as though you were quoting a section of text.

 

Right click.  Select "Open link in new tab"

[gamb00ler]

14 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Highlight the link as though you were quoting a section of text.

 

Right click.  Select "Open link in new tab"

Thanks, but I already know how to deal with the non-clickable links.  I noticed that other posts had working links so I thought I was doing something wrong.