Just received a Tax form in the post - what next ?

[jwest10]

26 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

A number (but not all)  of provincial Revenue Depts are telling  people no need to file if no tax owed. This is not technically correct -- by law must file if you have more than 60k in assessable income -- but the most you risk (assuming indeed no tax due) is a small fine, and that seems rarely enforced.  Still, I personally would file in that circumstance.  

 

A few RDs are telling people only need to file if you work in Thailand. That is, and always has been, completly untrue and if as a result you fail to pay tax due, could come back to bite you in future. 

Also no tax payable!!! Per my local Revenue Office and several times ok

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Also no tax payable!!! Per my local Revenue Office and several times ok

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here.

 

If you mean that your local RD has  told you no need to file if no taxes owed, then as explained this is not correct (filing is required if you have over 60k in assessabld income) but, as also explained, assuming indeed no tax owed then the most you risk by not filing is a small fine and that is seldom applied.

 

If  you mean your  local RD  told you no tax is ever payable unless working in Thailand, that is both untrue and dangerously misleading.  There are many situations wherein  people not employed in Thailand  would owe Thai tax.  Passive income  earned in Thailand or remitted from abroad to Thailand, and earnings ftom employment abroad remitted to Thailand being examples of this.

 

Be aware that  verbal misinformation from RD staff will not be any defense if you are later  found to have evaded  tax payment.  And the knowledgabilty of RD stsff, especially in matters foreigner specific, is quite variable and often low.  

 

It behooves everyone who us tax redident here to personally  research whether or not they owe Thai  taxes.  Really not very difficult to do. 

 

 

[oldcpu]

4 hours ago, steven.g said:

As a Canadian who lives retired in Thailand, I m tax exempt due to treaty agreements. However, I still must fill out the form. 

 

I assume you are referring to your Canadian OAS, or CPP, or RRSP/RRIF or other similar 'pension' type remunerations from Canada. 

 

If that is your only income, even a number of the Tax Advisors (for Expats in Thailand) have stated if one's only income is remitted Canadian pension type remunerations, then no Thailand tax ID is needed, nor does one have to file  a Thai tax return in that case (of only Canadian pensions being one's income).

 

However if you have local Thai income, that exceeds the threshold for filing a Thai tax return (in addition to your remitted Canadian pensions), then yes, you do need to file a Thai tax return due to that local Thai income.

 

I assume in your case, you put down 0-Thai baht for your remitted income? I assume that because there is NO PLACE to deduct that non-taxable income on the Thai tax form.  Is my assumption correct?

 

Given that, at present time there is no immigration requirement to show a tax return submitted, nor any official indication that such document for immigration will be required in the future (only some paranoid AseanNow scaremongers noting such is possible) - then I don't believe a tax return (nor tax ID) is needed in a case such as yours (if the Canadian pension (or similar Canadian derived remunerations) is the only income one has and is remitting to Thailand) . One needs to be above a certain assessable income level to qualify for a Thai tax ID.

 

Having typed the above, no one is stopping anyone (who has a Thai tax ID) from filing a Thai tax return, even if they don't have to file. 

 

I am curious thou - just how did you list your remitted Canadian tax exempt income?  Did you simply put down such as a ZERO ?

[flexomike]

4 hours ago, tomgreen said:

Thanks, I'm planning to go and get the tax all ready taken statement from my Thai bank savings account ( as requested by my local tax office ) and then once Ive got that paper work , I will be going back to my local tax office ( there they said that they would fill every thing out on line for me ) and ask them to then process every thing . Its interesting that you were given a reference number to use next year . Just out of interest ( being nosey ) was the outcome of you filing your tax form in , what you had expected. 

I knew before going that with my deductions and exemptions I would owe nothing, and that is what it ended up as I owed nothing. You will also owe nothing. Relax and enjoy your life.

[henryford1958]

21 hours ago, tomgreen said:

Hi and thanks, what I wanted to do was to make sure that I filled the forms out correctly as they are all worded in Thai , and my Thai wife did not understand many of the questions on the forms. So I decided to seek help and ask at my local tax office , who were very helpful . Ive attached the tax forms in question. 

 

I couldn't really read the forms, the writing is too small, but is there any line there which relates to the DTA exemption. If not it might appear to the Revenue that you do owe tax and you have to argue to get the DTA exemptions.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, henryford1958 said:

 

I couldn't really read the forms, the writing is too small, but is there any line there which related to the DTA exemption. If not it might appear to the Revenue that you do owe tax and you have to argue to get the DTA exemptions.

No. 

If it's not accessable income under your DTA, you simply do not put it down on that form.

Any "argument" if it ever comes to that would be at an audit.

 

[henryford1958]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

No. 

If it's not accessable income under your DTA, you simply do not put it down on that form.

Any "argument" if it ever comes to that would be at an audit.

 

 

So does that imply we should submit a tax return (to comply with the rules) but put zero income on it (as it is exempt)?

[Jingthing]

Just now, henryford1958 said:

 

So does that imply we should submit a tax return (to comply with the rules) but put zero income on it (as it is exempt)?

No.

It means file if your accessable income is over the filing threshold. 

Being over that threshold doesn't mean you'll necessarily owe tax though.

For example if a foreigners only income is a few thousand baht from bank interest, no need to file unless they want to bother with that to get the withholding refunded.

[TheAppletons]

1 hour ago, henryford1958 said:

 

So does that imply we should submit a tax return (to comply with the rules) but put zero income on it (as it is exempt)?

 

  If one has no assessable income, one is not required to file a tax return.

[NoDisplayName]

5 hours ago, henryford1958 said:

 

I couldn't really read the forms, the writing is too small, but is there any line there which relates to the DTA exemption. If not it might appear to the Revenue that you do owe tax and you have to argue to get the DTA exemptions.

 

Correct.  There is no field on the form to claim a DTA exemption, thus no way to deduct NON-assessable income from you PIT calculations.

 

Thailand permits taxpayers to self-determine which income is assessable, and only enter taxable income on the forms.  Non-assessable income is invisible to the system.

 

There are two posters here that claimed TRD officials showed them they could deduct it, but they entered that into a field to deduct income already reported on Thai half-year tax returns.  This would be done manually by the TRD officer, and would require a copy of the half-year return if you tried this at home.  Not possible online.

 

Note neither of those posters filed yet, so this is still unverified.

[jwest10]

On 2/22/2025 at 3:38 PM, Sheryl said:

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here.

 

If you mean that your local RD has  told you no need to file if no taxes owed, then as explained this is not correct (filing is required if you have over 60k in assessabld income) but, as also explained, assuming indeed no tax owed then the most you risk by not filing is a small fine and that is seldom applied.

 

If  you mean your  local RD  told you no tax is ever payable unless working in Thailand, that is both untrue and dangerously misleading.  There are many situations wherein  people not employed in Thailand  would owe Thai tax.  Passive income  earned in Thailand or remitted from abroad to Thailand, and earnings ftom employment abroad remitted to Thailand being examples of this.

 

Be aware that  verbal misinformation from RD staff will not be any defense if you are later  found to have evaded  tax payment.  And the knowledgabilty of RD stsff, especially in matters foreigner specific, is quite variable and often low.  

 

It behooves everyone who us tax redident here to personally  research whether or not they owe Thai  taxes.  Really not very difficult to do. 

 

not tax evasion read my post again ok

 

[jwest10]

10 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

 

Not tax evasion at all and read my post again ok

No income from employment both here in Thailand and UK  and you querying what my local revenue office have stated to me many times  and also a Thai friend whose partner has a friend who works at the Revenue office and get the 220K and told me in person in my circumstances I definitely do not need to file a form and in any case why would they chase when absolute zero tas is payable ie ZERO!!
Maybe ask again but what is the point they will not issue a Tin and yes I have a pink ID card and again it makes no difference.
Please do not shoot the messenger ok.
Cheers 

[Sheryl]

9 hours ago, henryford1958 said:

 

So does that imply we should submit a tax return (to comply with the rules) but put zero income on it (as it is exempt)?

Thete is no rule requiring people without assessable income to file. And no way to show non-assessable income on a tax form. 

 

The rule is: file if 60k or more of assessable income. 

[jwest10]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Thete is no rule requiring peopke without assessable income to file. And no way to show non-assessable income on a tax form. 

 

The rule is: file if 60k or more of assessable income. 

We get this and  been told this about no need to file and many are not going to and yes as if they going to give one a letter 220k reportedly? 

[Toby1947]

Well they're certainly not looking to give you money back again. 🤣😂🤣

[jwest10]

On 2/21/2025 at 3:35 AM, Confuscious said:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23517.html

4. Application for exemption or reduction of fine and surcharge

A taxpayer has the duty to file his tax return and pay proper taxes on time. Should he fail to do so, he will be subject to fine and surcharge on top of the tax due.

 

As stated by  many there is no where to put these figures and yet again my local Revenue Office has stated I do not have to file a tax form as my allowances exceed any income coming in and yes also have a Thai friend whose partner has someone working in that Department and saying the same/

[jwest10]

On 2/21/2025 at 6:31 AM, tomgreen said:

Thanks, Yes I made a mistake, I should have said that it was my UK state pension . I wonder if my UK state pension is well below the the threshold amount , then is there any need to complete the tax form. 

Tom Please read my posts and my local Revenue Office have frequently told me I do not need to file a tax form as my allowances are below the income coming in and in case if you keep a written  record then fine and yes I get people talking a bout this 220K issue and yes we all worry about lots of things here,

[jwest10]

On 2/21/2025 at 6:50 AM, tomgreen said:

Thanks, so its looking more and more like that I need to fill out the tax form, my problem is that my Thai wife does not understand the questions on the tax form , and I'm not too happy about paying a tax consultant to advise me what to do. 

Yes, they do get confused but not as much as us and hard to explain to others when we do not understand ourselves!!!

[jwest10]

On 2/21/2025 at 7:22 AM, flexomike said:

just take your wife with you to the tax office, they will do all the paperwork for you online. No charge for this and with the amount of income you have you will owe nothing, and if you bring a tax statement from the bank that amount would be refunded to you

Yes, agree but they do not know and many in the Revenue giving differing views but if  they are willing to help you go ahead.

[jwest10]

On 2/21/2025 at 8:51 AM, tomgreen said:

One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was to inform the UK pension department that I was living in Thailand . I have even thought about moving to the Philippians or returning back to the Uk ( for 6 months ) but at my age ( 75 ) It may not be worth all the stress and trouble ☹️.

Well Tom many of us have no family or houses back in Blighty and try to make the most of it here in Thailand and yes the same age and have my homes here and my family too!!!

[jwest10]

On 2/22/2025 at 10:58 AM, tomgreen said:

Hi , after reading all of the comments and advice posted here to my original question , it seems that due to my small UK state pension ( which is my only income being transferred to my Bangkok Bank account from the UK  )  even if I do fill out the tax form I would not be taxed. So in my mind I'm thinking ....is it better to be safe than sorry. 

Tomm Yes I totally understand but again many have been told otherwise  and by the Revenue

[jwest10]

On 2/22/2025 at 2:55 PM, Sheryl said:

A number (but not all)  of provincial Revenue Depts are telling  people no need to file if no tax owed. This is not technically correct -- by law must file if you have more than 60k in assessable income -- but the most you risk (assuming indeed no tax due) is a small fine, and that seems rarely enforced.  Still, I personally would file in that circumstance.  

 

A few RDs are telling people only need to file if you work in Thailand. That is, and always has been, completly untrue and if as a result you fail to pay tax due, could come back to bite you in future. 

Some agree to disagree and up to you a well known phrase.

[sandyf]

On 2/20/2025 at 10:26 PM, topt said:

Only taxable in the UK so just ignore 

 

On 2/21/2025 at 1:38 AM, treetops said:

You called it earlier a "monthly government retirement pension" which is a bit unclear and has made some posters think of it as eg a civil service pension which would not be taxable due to the DTA.

It is only unclear because the government have deliberately made it so.

It is exactly what the poster was entitled to when he became eligible for a retirement pension, aged 75 that would have been under section 30 of the 1965 National Insurance Act.

30 Retirement pension by virtue of own insurance.
(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, a person shall be entitled to a retirement pensionat the appropriate weekly rate specified in relation thereto in column 2 of Schedule 3 to this Act if—
(a) he is over pensionable age and has retired from regular employment; and
(b) he satisfies the contribution conditions set out in paragraph 4(1) of Schedule 2 to this Act.

 

The DTA makes government occupational pensions non assessable in Thailand, but not the retirement pension which the government would prefer to call a social  security benefit.

[ross163103]

Just one more reason I won't register for a tax number unless I have too. Once you're in the system you're on their radar.

[motdaeng]

3 hours ago, ross163103 said:

Just one more reason I won't register for a tax number unless I have too. Once you're in the system you're on their radar.

 

you are already on their radar ... the big question is only will they come after you or not ... and will it be this year or in a few years  or never in our life time .... 

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/22/2025 at 2:07 AM, Yumthai said:

If you really were not trembling you would not feel much concerned, as most of Thai residents foreigners and locals included, nor proactively and fraudulently act about these tax matters.

 

I just see it as another bill to pay for living full time in Thailand. 

 

Of course, I have been minimizing my exposure to this bill, but it's just another bill, never the less.  It is what it is. 

 

You can run from it, and leave for 6 months of the year, but if you remain in Thailand full time, you can't hide from it.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/22/2025 at 3:09 AM, tomgreen said:

 Hi, trust me to scare some people, hopefully some information posted will be in some way helpful. 

Some members find "information" as "scary" and would rather shoot the messenger, in the hope the message goes away. 

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

you are already on their radar ... the big question is only will they come after you or not ... and will it be this year or in a few years  or never in our life time .... 

Your post got me thinking.  It was the words "never in our lifetime." 

 

If one was to not pay tax here when they should, is it possible Thailand will take that tax out of the deceased estate assets. Eg.  cash at bank, property. 

 

In my home country, debt do not die with you.  They are repaid by your estate, upon your demise. 

 

Does anyone know if this is currently the case for Thai Nationals?