Are the USA and Europe heading for a Divorce?

[Harrisfan]

2 hours ago, sharot724 said:

Speak english please making zero sense

Your name is French

[Phulublub]

I agree pretty much with all the Illinois Govrnor says here:

 

https://www.instagram.com/bittersoutherner/reel/DGWpmF3O7P6/?hl=en

[sharot724]

1 hour ago, Harrisfan said:

Your name is French

figures from you  

No, "Sharot" is not considered a common French name; however, according to family history research, "Sarot" could be a French surname derived from a topographic name related to the word "barot" which means a small pole, gate, or barrier, potentially indicating a place name in France. 

[sharot724]

JD added that Trump was negotiating.

[NickyLouie]

6 hours ago, TedG said:

 

 

Stop pulling numbers out of your ass. 

 

[Harrisfan]

26 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

 

Trump should have punched him.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Trump should have punched him.

Is that your way of communicating with country's leader......?  

 

Norway has just taught Trump a lesson in how they deal with a country's fruitcake leader, well done Norway......

[black tabby12345]

As a matte rof fact, US's withdrawals from NATO is Highly Unlikely.

Even though Trump makes a turbulence during his term.

 

According to the National Defense Authorization Act of 2024, the president cannot order own government to leave NATO, without 2/3 majority votes of the Federal Senate. 

This law was passed while Republican Party was Senate majority.

 

national defense authorization act 2024, bans president to leave nato without senate majority votes - Google Search

 

[black tabby12345]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

Is that your way of communicating with country's leader......?  

 

Norway has just taught Trump a lesson in how they deal with a country's fruitcake leader, well done Norway......

 

Strongly agree.

Some of the fanatic Trump Fans  started to looks like his Depleted Miniature.

Not thinking twice before publicizing something...

[Confuscious]

Europe's plans were in the make long before Trump came in.
Europe was planning already a long time to have their own army, instead relying always on the USA and the NATO pact.
Trump escalated the plans for an European army with his attitude towards other countries.

This is not the only plan Europe was making.
Europe was also planning to ditch the USD for their trade and push the EUR for trading with other countries.
And in the last years, they are planning to have their own digital currency.

IMHO, the USA will leave Ukraine and Europe will step in to help Ukraine to join the NATO  starting WW3.
Putin made it very clear that he will never allow Ukraine to join the NATO.

[Harrisfan]

57 minutes ago, transam said:

Is that your way of communicating with country's leader......?  

 

Norway has just taught Trump a lesson in how they deal with a country's fruitcake leader, well done Norway......

Nobody cares about Norway.

[Harrisfan]

1 minute ago, Confuscious said:

Europe's plans were in the make long before Trump came in.
Europe was planning already a long time to have their own army, instead relying always on the USA and the NATO pact.
Trump escalated the plans for an European army with his attitude towards other countries.

This is not the only plan Europe was making.
Europe was also planning to ditch the USD for their trade and push the EUR for trading with other countries.
And in the last years, they are planning to have their own digital currency.

IMHO, the USA will leave Ukraine and Europe will step in to help Ukraine to join the NATO  starting WW3.
Putin made it very clear that he will never allow Ukraine to join the NATO.

The Euro has been a disaster for many of it's members. Ww3 will happen but not until 2039

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Nobody cares about Norway.

Who is "nobody", could you be more precise........?

 

Forget those who maybe sitting nearby on stools ....

[Confuscious]

What really happened at the White House.

 

[dinsdale]

No. It will just cost more to continue to have USA military support.

[worgeordie]

10 hours ago, Robert_Smith said:

It seems like relations between the US and Europe are now at an all time low.

 

I understand both sides of the argument - trump is sick of sending money to Ukraine for nothing in return, whilst Europe need to do all they can to protect themselves from a mad dictator just a stones throw away..

 

I think things are about to get really frosty between Europe and the US. If the US doesn't support Ukraine and Zelensky anymore then just stop supporting them, cut off all funding and focus solely on domestic issues instead of destabilizing the rest of the world....At the end of the day, it is a war being raged in Europe and the Europeans themselves should band together and get it sorted between them.

 

regards,

bob.

Never mind that divorce Bob , what about you ,I have never seen you

mention the good lady once since your return here under the Robert Smith

moniker , all good or has she finally had enough of you ? 

 

regards worgeordie

[Dan747]

It's time for the Europeans to pay their fair share into NATO-"PERIOD!!"

[Robert_Smith]

9 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Never mind that divorce Bob , what about you ,I have never seen you

mention the good lady once since your return here under the Robert Smith

moniker , all good or has she finally had enough of you ? 

 

regards worgeordie

....shut tha marth.

 

regards,

bob.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Confuscious said:

Europe's plans were in the make long before Trump came in.
Europe was planning already a long time to have their own army, instead relying always on the USA and the NATO pact.
Trump escalated the plans for an European army with his attitude towards other countries.

This is not the only plan Europe was making.
Europe was also planning to ditch the USD for their trade and push the EUR for trading with other countries.
And in the last years, they are planning to have their own digital currency.

IMHO, the USA will leave Ukraine and Europe will step in to help Ukraine to join the NATO  starting WW3.
Putin made it very clear that he will never allow Ukraine to join the NATO.

European forces would struggle to guarantee Ukraine peace without US backing

 

At an emergency meeting in Paris on Monday, European leaders remained split on the idea of deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine, a plan some European nations had started discussing last year at France's initiative.

Such a force would raise the risk of a direct confrontation with Russia and stretch European militaries, whose arms stocks have been depleted by donations to Ukraine and who are used to relying heavily on U.S. support for major missions.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-forces-would-struggle-guarantee-ukraine-peace-without-us-backing-2025-02-18/

If Europe has been planning for years life without the USA it appears they haven't got pass the planning/talking stage yet

As for Nato every member has a veto remember Turkey vetoed Finland and Sweden nato membership

 

[Mike_Hunt]

1 hour ago, Confuscious said:

Europe's plans were in the make long before Trump came in.
Europe was planning already a long time to have their own army, instead relying always on the USA and the NATO pact.
Trump escalated the plans for an European army with his attitude towards other countries.

This is not the only plan Europe was making.
Europe was also planning to ditch the USD for their trade and push the EUR for trading with other countries.
And in the last years, they are planning to have their own digital currency.

IMHO, the USA will leave Ukraine and Europe will step in to help Ukraine to join the NATO  starting WW3.
Putin made it very clear that he will never allow Ukraine to join the NATO.

 

Let's be real, Europe won't follow through.  

 

Putin will do zip if Ukraine joins NATO. 

[Mike_Hunt]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

European forces would struggle to guarantee Ukraine peace without US backing

 

At an emergency meeting in Paris on Monday, European leaders remained split on the idea of deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine, a plan some European nations had started discussing last year at France's initiative.

Such a force would raise the risk of a direct confrontation with Russia and stretch European militaries, whose arms stocks have been depleted by donations to Ukraine and who are used to relying heavily on U.S. support for major missions.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-forces-would-struggle-guarantee-ukraine-peace-without-us-backing-2025-02-18/

If Europe has been planning for years life without the USA it appears they haven't got pass the planning/talking stage yet

As for Nato every member has a veto remember Turkey vetoed Finland and Sweden nato membership

 

 

The Europeans couldn't handle a short bombing campaign in Lybia without US logistics.  Europeans can't be taken seriously. 

[MicroB]

7 hours ago, BKKKevin said:

Curious for any Brits here...

How is the whole BrExit thing going? 

 

Its terrible, engineered by an unholy alliance for the Hard Right and Far Left (or Far Right and Hard Left). Ultimately, a lot of the events of today originate in the Crash of 2008, and how governments responded to that (I'm not sure they could have responded in any other way). Did people in 1938 look back at 1918 (and the details), if they knew what was going to happen in 1939.

 

It really shows what a huge deal the 1914-18 war was; not in terms of numbers or the battlefields, but what disruptive change it caused to a whole continent, and world, that's still being felt 120+ years later.

 

There are moments in history that you can't tell are truely great without the passage of time. The fall of the USSR was such a moment, but I think interpreted wrongly, because the effects wasn't just a terrible economic calamity to the Soviet people (balanced by profound improvements in personal liberty, but liberty doesn't pay the bills), but the effects on Western nations. And no, that's not about NATO, but something more profound. But we carried on as if it was a case of winners/losers, generating tremendous hubris. I understand George Bush (sr) talked about a New World Order; he had lived a long life, seen the growth of Nazism, the Cold War, so he could only be optimistic about the future, especially as he wasn't really going to experience it.

 

Some thought 2008 was a shake to the capitalist order, but somehow it survived it. The ripose was always socialist versus capitalist, without considering emergence of new orders, but ones which do not come from people, but from individuals. So the age of the oligarchs. There are men in Russia who are fabulously rich, but they didn't get there through clever capitalism. Elon Musk is allegedly (on paper) the richest man in the world. I still don't know how he got to that position. There aren't that many Tesla cars about. SpaceX is still largely a services company, with most of its income I think outsourced government  contracts.

 

He was brought up in a household that believed in Technocracy, and he has said that one day, he would like Mars to have a Tehnocratic government. Broadly that means having experts in charge of a coutry, which sounds fine. We want people with strong military experience to run defence. We want people with strong economic skills to run a treasury and so forth. The Technocracy movement sprung up in the 1930s; it believed that in such a system, elections were not necessary, or that the role of democracy could be minimised. Ok, so that kinds of like going from the purist Greek idea of democracy, where everyone had a say, and a vote, on every single law, which meant nothing got done, to what we have now, representative democracy, where we vote for representatives, and lend them our vote.

 

Musk's grandfather was Canadian, and physician who got into this fairly niche brand of politics. He was briefly arrested in WW2 as it was thought he wasn't sufficiently onboard with the idea of fighting the Nazis (code for suspicion he supported Germany). Postwar, he rebranded the Technocracy Movement the Social Credit Party, and was generally unsuccessful at that. Generally, I raise red flags when a doctor gets into politics or religion, because with it comes the Messianic complex. In 1948, he liked what he saw was happening in South Africa, with the race seperation laws, and felt only these could save "Western Christian Civilisation" and took his family, with Elon's baby mum, to South Africa.

 

Are we entering a post-capitalist world, where the power of the people and the shareholder is eroded as companies go private. and all that comes with that. The 47th President isn't part of that; he's a symptom. He's a product of the old order, and I suspect doesn't understand the new emerging order. I would include the bumbling British governments since 2016, who are also products of the old order, and they are not sure  what is happening. Which started with Brexit. Its wrong to interpret events as some sort of return to "common sense", traditional values, the way we used to do things etc. We look back, and post WW2, the trend for most societies was more socially liberal, but conservative economically. The latter has weakened, and not because of left wing politics of old; nationalism is long dead, as the state is now too weak. I'm talking about what was called voodoo economics. Billionaires created overnight because of an app no one has heard of. Oil for illiterate Bedu powered it; Musk's purchase of Twitter was financed by Saudi princes who have never worked a day in their lives. And by 2008, people were buying houses beyond their means to support an unrealistic lifestyle. There are parallels with the USSR in the late 60s, in the so-called people's paradises. The cities looked genuinely advanced, with impressive structures and impressive propaganda. But it was all a smokescreen. They couldn't afford any of that. And it seems, neither could we.

 

The US government is waking up to the fact that its not really that powerful anymore, like the European governments now realise. Its a return of the Robber Barons. But the US companies are not really American anymore; their profits are made in the US, but their factories and workforce are elesewhere. Traditional American companies make most of their money in the US. Emerging US tech companies make most of their money elsewhere or everywhere.

 

[Confuscious]

34 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

Its terrible, engineered by an unholy alliance for the Hard Right and Far Left (or Far Right and Hard Left). Ultimately, a lot of the events of today originate in the Crash of 2008, and how governments responded to that (I'm not sure they could have responded in any other way). Did people in 1938 look back at 1918 (and the details), if they knew what was going to happen in 1939.

 

It really shows what a huge deal the 1914-18 war was; not in terms of numbers or the battlefields, but what disruptive change it caused to a whole continent, and world, that's still being felt 120+ years later.

 

There are moments in history that you can't tell are truely great without the passage of time. The fall of the USSR was such a moment, but I think interpreted wrongly, because the effects wasn't just a terrible economic calamity to the Soviet people (balanced by profound improvements in personal liberty, but liberty doesn't pay the bills), but the effects on Western nations. And no, that's not about NATO, but something more profound. But we carried on as if it was a case of winners/losers, generating tremendous hubris. I understand George Bush (sr) talked about a New World Order; he had lived a long life, seen the growth of Nazism, the Cold War, so he could only be optimistic about the future, especially as he wasn't really going to experience it.

 

Some thought 2008 was a shake to the capitalist order, but somehow it survived it. The ripose was always socialist versus capitalist, without considering emergence of new orders, but ones which do not come from people, but from individuals. So the age of the oligarchs. There are men in Russia who are fabulously rich, but they didn't get there through clever capitalism. Elon Musk is allegedly (on paper) the richest man in the world. I still don't know how he got to that position. There aren't that many Tesla cars about. SpaceX is still largely a services company, with most of its income I think outsourced government  contracts.

 

He was brought up in a household that believed in Technocracy, and he has said that one day, he would like Mars to have a Tehnocratic government. Broadly that means having experts in charge of a coutry, which sounds fine. We want people with strong military experience to run defence. We want people with strong economic skills to run a treasury and so forth. The Technocracy movement sprung up in the 1930s; it believed that in such a system, elections were not necessary, or that the role of democracy could be minimised. Ok, so that kinds of like going from the purist Greek idea of democracy, where everyone had a say, and a vote, on every single law, which meant nothing got done, to what we have now, representative democracy, where we vote for representatives, and lend them our vote.

 

Musk's grandfather was Canadian, and physician who got into this fairly niche brand of politics. He was briefly arrested in WW2 as it was thought he wasn't sufficiently onboard with the idea of fighting the Nazis (code for suspicion he supported Germany). Postwar, he rebranded the Technocracy Movement the Social Credit Party, and was generally unsuccessful at that. Generally, I raise red flags when a doctor gets into politics or religion, because with it comes the Messianic complex. In 1948, he liked what he saw was happening in South Africa, with the race seperation laws, and felt only these could save "Western Christian Civilisation" and took his family, with Elon's baby mum, to South Africa.

I wonder how much in today's USA politics is coming from Trump himself and how much is dictated by Musk.

Analog to Thai politics where most of the government decisions are dictated by Thaksin.

[RayC]

9 hours ago, BKKKevin said:

USExit...

Basically BrExit on steroids as this includes all of Europe, Canada,  Mexico & China

 

Curious for any Brits here...

How is the whole BrExit thing going? 

 

As expected. Not so great.

[Purdey]

This could be an opportunity for Europe. It could learn to stand on its own feet. A Finnish company has already banned the US from refueling there. 

Get a deal with Ukraine for rights to their minerals and metals and use the money to help Ukraine rebuild the country later. Think hotels and casinos.

Then grab all the Russian money frozen in European banks and use it to make weapons. 

[Yagoda]

5 minutes ago, Purdey said:

A Finnish company has already banned the US from refueling there. 

Really? When and which one?

[still kicking]

14 hours ago, blaze master said:

I wish the clone army would divorce from AN.

And jet you are still posting

[blaze master]

31 minutes ago, still kicking said:

And jet you are still posting

 

Ok.

[Gecko123]

 

[riclag]

My  divorce court  judge said since you two can’t stop warring on each other over who gets what ,I’m gonna 

(the court)  decide for both!

She went on to say nobody wins in

a divorce decision.

 

Im not sure if the figure is accurate but somebody is getting screwed, Its Time to leave Nato expansionism , they are killing us.