Thai-farang Marriage ... Thais Losing Out?

[FatBoyEric]

My dearest was talking to her lawyer today and was casually informed that being the spouse of a foreigner, she was no longer allowed to purchase land, above 1 rai in size. Is that a fact? And what ways around this might there be, other than a swift divorce, which I'm sure she's contemplating.

[jumnien]

Get a new lawyer fast!!! He's been sleeping for at least 10 years.

[FatBoyEric]

Get a new lawyer fast!!! He's been sleeping for at least 10 years.

So it's an old law then?

I only married my wife a month ago, so the lawyer can probably be forgiven.

Is this thread better off in Real Estate, housing, house and land ownership ?

[Captain Chaos]

Get a new lawyer fast!!! He's been sleeping for at least 10 years.

So it's an old law then?

I only married my wife a month ago, so the lawyer can probably be forgiven.

Is this thread better off in Real Estate, housing, house and land ownership ?

Not quite - it's a law that doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for some time. Thai nationals married to foreigners have the same rights as any other Thais - you however may have to claim a document to acknowledge that you have no claim over any land your wife now purchases, or the money used to do so.

So no, your lawyer can't be forgiven ...

CC

[FatBoyEric]

She's adamant that the lawyer knows his stuff & that the law was changed some 2 months ago, such that married Thais don't have the same rights as their unmarried counterparts in respect of land purchase. Shoukd I tell her to fire her lawyer or could he possibly be correct?

[Chang_paarp]

She's adamant that the lawyer knows his stuff & that the law was changed some 2 months ago, such that married Thais don't have the same rights as their unmarried counterparts in respect of land purchase. Shoukd I tell her to fire her lawyer or could he possibly be correct?

May be you should recomend a second opinion.

Sugest a lawyer that has got a degree not a ceal box on the wall.

[Maestro]

She's adamant that the lawyer knows his stuff & that the law was changed some 2 months ago, such that married Thais don't have the same rights as their unmarried counterparts in respect of land purchase. Shoukd I tell her to fire her lawyer or could he possibly be correct?

Ask her to show you the law. All laws are published in the Government Gazette and this allegedly being a new law her lawyer should not have any problem finding the corresponding issue of the Government Gazette and copying it for her.

The result will be an admission by her lawyer that no such new law exists.

--

Maestro

[onethailand]

She's adamant that the lawyer knows his stuff & that the law was changed some 2 months ago, such that married Thais don't have the same rights as their unmarried counterparts in respect of land purchase. Shoukd I tell her to fire her lawyer or could he possibly be correct?

I find that most Thai wives are adamant when they're on home territory... LOL... especially when it pertains to someone respected by the family, or perhaps a relative.

The lawyer is probably old and respected - but also outdated... I would get a second opinion and in obtaining that opinion, make sure that the lawyer presents a copy of the regulations that state such.

I once had an accountant insist that there was no such thing as a Treaty of Amity. She got very heated over that matter, whereupon I asked her to call the US Embassy to verify.

Three months later, she called back and begged forgiveness for being unaware of the Treaty, about the same time I changed accountants

Edited August 9, 2007 by onethailand

[bendix]

mdeland is correct. Your wife's lawyer is an idiot. That law was scrapped ages ago.

[britmaveric]

Yes the lawyer if he is one, is not so bright.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Yes the lawyer if he is one, is not so bright.

I wouldn't like this lawyer to be fronting a court for me.

[joeuk1]

I am married to Thai lady , bought land 6 weeks ago i signed form as has been said to you above .

JB

[FatBoyEric]

Well I showed her the responses on this thread & she's confused now. She's also telling me that she saw a daytime TV programme a few weeks ago where the same thing was mentioned. Anyway, I told her to get a printed copy of this apparant new law or stop the hel_l worrying about it. She fears that if she acquires any more land, the govt. will take it from her to penalise her for marrying outside her race. Insane Thailand.

[Gary A]

I'd tell her that he is a great lawyer so that she uses him if the marriage were to go pear shaped. You can then get a competent lawyer to represent you.

[esbobes]

I am married to Thai lady , bought land 6 weeks ago i signed form as has been said to you above .

JB

He is doing you right maybe he knows her better than you known her and wants to save you heart aches.

[A_Traveller]

This was changed in 1999 by ministerial order. However, the Thai spouse must still prove that the money used in the purchase of freehold land is legally solely theirs with no foreign claim upon it. This is oft achieved by the foreign spouse signing a declaration stating that the funds used for the purchase of property belonged to the Thai spouse prior to the marriage and are beyond his claim.

Regards

[krab]

Well I showed her the responses on this thread & she's confused now. She's also telling me that she saw a daytime TV programme a few weeks ago where the same thing was mentioned. Anyway, I told her to get a printed copy of this apparant new law or stop the hel_l worrying about it. She fears that if she acquires any more land, the govt. will take it from her to penalise her for marrying outside her race. Insane Thailand.

Will the land bought after marriage will be shared by foreigner and thai once divorced? I heard that foreigners can't own land/house, the land will be hers anyway.

[A_Traveller]

Well I showed her the responses on this thread & she's confused now. She's also telling me that she saw a daytime TV programme a few weeks ago where the same thing was mentioned. Anyway, I told her to get a printed copy of this apparant new law or stop the hel_l worrying about it. She fears that if she acquires any more land, the govt. will take it from her to penalise her for marrying outside her race. Insane Thailand.

Will the land bought after marriage will be shared by foreigner and thai once divorced? I heard that foreigners can't own land/house, the land will be hers anyway.

See my post above this one.

Regards

[krab]

Well I showed her the responses on this thread & she's confused now. She's also telling me that she saw a daytime TV programme a few weeks ago where the same thing was mentioned. Anyway, I told her to get a printed copy of this apparant new law or stop the hel_l worrying about it. She fears that if she acquires any more land, the govt. will take it from her to penalise her for marrying outside her race. Insane Thailand.

Will the land bought after marriage will be shared by foreigner and thai once divorced? I heard that foreigners can't own land/house, the land will be hers anyway.

See my post above this one.

Regards

So you mean this declaration must be signed by foreigner spouse prior to marriage or it's just an option?

If foreign spouse is willing to sponsor the thai spouse to purchase the whole property, he will get nothing back once divorced if he signed this declaration beforehand?

If foreign spouse failed to sign this declaration prior to marriage, he has the right to claim it once divorced?

[jumnien]

You might address these issues in your pre or post-nupt agreement.

[A_Traveller]

Well I showed her the responses on this thread & she's confused now. She's also telling me that she saw a daytime TV programme a few weeks ago where the same thing was mentioned. Anyway, I told her to get a printed copy of this apparent new law or stop the hel_l worrying about it. She fears that if she acquires any more land, the govt. will take it from her to penalise her for marrying outside her race. Insane Thailand.

Will the land bought after marriage will be shared by foreigner and Thai once divorced? I heard that foreigners can't own land/house, the land will be hers anyway.

See my post above this one.

Regards

Definitions:- land. The physical property, which may not constitutionally be held by a foreigner, not held by a Thai citizen as a nominee for a foreigner.

Premises. Any development or building on land.

Condominium. A property which holds the title of the land within a management company for the benefit of all property owners within the building, it is the beneficial owner no single unit holder, nor group of them. In a condominium the majority of units must, by law, be owned by Thai citizens, with same constraints as in land definition.

So you mean this declaration must be signed by foreigner spouse prior to marriage or it's just an option? [in most cases the papers are presented as part of the transaction. Even if not signed, no court will uphold any foreign claim based on land, since it is unconstitutional for a foreigner to hold land]

If foreign spouse is willing to sponsor the Thai spouse to purchase the whole property, he will get nothing back once divorced if he signed this declaration beforehand? [see above, in short the physical land cannot belong or more precisely a foreigner may not be the holder of beneficial title to land in Thailand. However, a foreigner may be entitled to the a share of the value of the Premises, though how that could be equated is difficult to say. What is a house worth without the land it sits upon?]

If foreign spouse failed to sign this declaration prior to marriage, he has the right to claim it once divorced?[No, the registration of the land requires a statement by the purchaser that the monies being used are not of foreign origin. Further, the point about the separation of land and premises comes in here.]

In simple terms no agreement howsoever drawn would have legal authority to override the constitutional provisions about land ownership. The individuals might agree to make private arrangements, a good polite divorce for example, but such an agreement would be ultimately unenforceable in law.

Regards

/edit format typo//

Edited August 11, 2007 by A_Traveller

[onethailand]

I seem to recall that a foreigner can inherit land, but has a limited period in which he must dispose of it. Under a similar scenario, a foreigner could potentially have a right to a portion of the land in the case of a divorce, but would still have to dispose of it within the proscribed timeframe or else forfeit his rights.

Ultimately, the land itself would not stay in your hands long. So basically A_Traveller is right - but for a very limited period of time a foreigner could *technically* own the rights to land.

edit -> That was strange - I just lost an entire edit.

Anyhow, on Thaivisa, it says:

Under former Land Office policy, Thai nationals who married foreigners were prohibited from ownership of land in Thailand. This prohibition was based on principles of community property law and a general presumption that the Thai spouse was holding the land for the benefit of the foreigner. However, under current Land Office policy the Thai spouse can own land in Thailand, provided that the foreign spouse signs a letter declaring the property to be the separate property of the Thai spouse and waiving any interest in the property.

http://www.thaivisa.com/own_land_thailand.0.html

If this is still current then A_Traveller is entirely correct.

Edited August 11, 2007 by onethailand

[dominique355]

This was changed in 1999 by ministerial order. However, the Thai spouse must still prove that the money used in the purchase of freehold land is legally solely theirs with no foreign claim upon it. This is oft achieved by the foreign spouse signing a declaration stating that the funds used for the purchase of property belonged to the Thai spouse prior to the marriage and are beyond his claim.

Regards

We have bought several times large pieces of land (6 rai and more). We did have to sign the declaration that I (the farang husband) have no claim to the land, but nobody asked us where the funds come from.

[onethailand]

We have bought several times large pieces of land (6 rai and more). We did have to sign the declaration that I (the farang husband) have no claim to the land, but nobody asked us where the funds come from.

The funds aren't likely to become an issue unless they were illegally gotten. All that's important is that you cannot claim the land for any reason.