Is it possible Trump is trying to sabotage the world economy?

[spidermike007]

I keep wondering about these tariffs, which rarely ever make sense especially when they're done in such a haphazard manner as the way Trump is attempting to impose them, and when they're imposed upon Canada and Mexico which are two of our biggest trading partners. It would appear that Wall Street and the car manufacturers are getting his ear and letting him know that his tariffs on Mexico and Canada could be a potential disaster. Hence the continuous Interruption of the tariffs and his bizarre cycle of "they are on today, and they're off tomorrow". 

 

I think it's becoming increasingly more obvious with his "cycle insanity" that Trump could be looking to destroy the US economy, intentionally.  There are few other reasons why, and there are few other explanations. This is not about protecting American jobs. That is a smoke screen, a false flag, as this will lead to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lost jobs in the US and worldwide.

 

So, why he would want to destroy the American economy is open to interpretation, whether or not he's following the dictates of the deep state (which have no party affiliation, it's just about power) or some other agenda that he has, but there's no question in my mind, he is looking to destroy the US economy, and that makes him an extremely dangerous man.

[BritManToo]

Best not to use trading partners for essential goods, leaves you at their mercy.

[SLOWHAND225]

No, he's not. America has zero interest in a NWO.

This is great though

 

JUST IN: https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f1e8-1f1f3.svghttps://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f1e8-1f1e6.svg China imposes 100% tariffs on select Canadian imports.

 

https://x.com/BRICSinfo/status/1898182680136573145

[candide]

13 minutes ago, SLOWHAND225 said:

No, he's not. America has zero interest in a NWO.

This is great though

 

JUST IN: https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f1e8-1f1f3.svghttps://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f1e8-1f1e6.svg China imposes 100% tariffs on select Canadian imports.

 

https://x.com/BRICSinfo/status/1898182680136573145

After Canada imposed duties in October on Chinese-made electric vehicles and steel and aluminum products.

[short-Timer]

Probabilities:

 

1. Trump’s tariffs being haphazard and economically damaging – 80%

2. Wall Street and car manufacturers influencing his decisions – 70%

3. Trump intentionally trying to destroy the U.S. economy – 10%

4. Trump following the dictates of the “deep state” – 5%

[MicroB]

3 hours ago, short-Timer said:

Probabilities:

 

1. Trump’s tariffs being haphazard and economically damaging – 80%

2. Wall Street and car manufacturers influencing his decisions – 70%

3. Trump intentionally trying to destroy the U.S. economy – 10%

4. Trump following the dictates of the “deep state” – 5%

 

 

Besides your understanding of Probability being a bit shaky;

 

2 and 4 are basically the same; the Establishment is the proverbial Wall Street. But also you believe its twice as likely that the American President is seeking to destroy the US economy than it is to bow to the undefined forces that some would contend have controlled the USA for nearly 250 years.

 

If these decisions are eminating purely from him (I don't think they are, more from people who have gotten his ear), its more likely based on his experience in property development and how he thinks that can be applied to international relations and the world economy, which suggests, charitably, naivity. He thinks he shares the same qualities as other world leaders, and that he believes he has gotten to where he is through merit, because America is a meritous society; you work hard, you succeed. He would think he worked hard in business, and succeeded. Similarly, he'd think he worked hard in politics, and succeeded through votes at the ballot box, because he had to work  hard to get those votes (hence his innate scepticism that anyone he thinks couldn't work hard  shouldn't be earning votes). Putin and Xi also worked hard to get where they are, but worked in a different way, through guile and manipulation, because their rise to the top is having a deep understanding of process, and therefore key pressure points. The American President likes the North Korean leader, because they are both their father's sons, left a legacy, and both with ungrateful siblings/family.

 

I don't think the US President is sitting in his office with behind him a geological  map of Ukraine, a printed out spreadsheey from the Commerce Department to his left, a Bible to his right and a copy of the Constitution in front of him. He's being manipulated by people who see either someone like minded or someone open to suggestion, or both.

 

Much has been talked about "Project 2025" which on the one level seeks to reorganise government, reduce its reach etc. Nothing it is is new, if one recalls the Bonfire of the Quangos. On one level, it claims to want to return America to is original or true values; this is the nonsense bit, because straight away it's generating a Ivanhoe- version of American history based around stories like the Shepherd of the Hills. Its been done before. "Britain" as a nation is a relatively modern 19th Century concoction, based on largely fictious accounts of Boudicia, Henry V and so forth, necessary to forge what was actually a new nation. Himmler did the same  with the German Volk; he invented the fantasy for Hitler of Teutonic Knights, Germania and Buxom serving wenches, necessary to get people around one idea. I don't think the people behind "Project 2025" are Nazis or fascists, even though they might fit some definitions. But there are obvious contradictions in their message; reduce the reach if the state (reduced departments, good), increase the reach of the state (state role in personal morality, mostly bad).

 

The 20th Century was this big struggle between Capitalism and Communism. Capitalism was the broad church; within capitalism, you had the liberal democrats such as Thatcher and Reagan, the social democrats such Gandhi, Brandt. Mitterand, Sanders, rubbing shoulders with absolute Kings and military dictatorships, who all mostly believed in the system of commerce and how we act with one anther. Communism was a narrow church; there wasn't that much difference between Pol Pot and Brezhnev really. As Communism crumbled, then you saw people try for so-called third ways. India, with the non-aligned movement, which was deeply protectionist (India protected Indian jobs, but with the result crap cars), Iran, with political Islam, which actually was quite a sophisticated ideology. Capitalism drew inspiration from the nebulous "markets". Communism based its legitimacy on the equally nebulous "masses". Political Islam based itself on the nebulous word of God (which extended to commerce). Political islam, as a single movement, fell apart for the same reasons it did 1200 years ago; no one could agree what that word of the Sky Fairy was. Capitalism seemingly won the 20th century, with political Islam quickly heading into irrelevance (backward countries no one was interested in). The early 20th Century saw Capitalism start to crumble, with the 2008 Crash causing many people to seriously question how they wanting to live. For some that meant turning to past failed ideologies of socialism/communism, fascism/nazism. The Arab Spring saw governments that were largely part of the Capiitalist tent being overthrown, and being replaced by we-don't-know-what-as-long-as-its-different chaos.

 

I think a second American Revolution is underway, with the purpose to upend everything you know about what America is. That will likely shock people opposed and supportive of whats happening.

 

Some might call it Oligarchy,  call it Technocracy. Technocracy isn't new; its another 3rd Way that believes Experts (the Technocrats) should be in charge of government; superficially that sounds attractive. Of course you want someone who knows what they are doing  running a ministry, wouldn't you? The government can be trusted to run the country, because they are experts. A vote is not important, because the experts already know the direction to take, and voters aren't experts. Voters can vote for things that don't alter that direction. Eventually there is nothing worth voting for. By then, life is more like Benign Feudalism; we are happy for the life we lead, but have no say it it., because of the rule of the Trusted Experts, who must be expert because they are so successful in life.

 

The Proponants might say that this change, dedemocratisation, is necessary, because in 50 years time its going to happen anyway; people won't be runnng a country anymore, but machines will. Interest rates, if they are at all relevant, won't be set by election-watching ministers or committees of bankers but by machine. Wars are waged by win-loss calculations. Medicines dispensed based on personalised genomics. This is either halcyon days where we all sit around all day counting butterflies, while our manservant Robot Jeeves brings us our perfect steak/ Pad Ka Prow Moo every day. Or its a nightmare of killer robots cruching mounds of human skulls.. The late James Lovelock's vision  is the Novocene; AI, technology rules us, and tends to use like we tend the roses in a garden. We like roses in our gardens because they look and smell nice. The Earth is a biosphere; life on earth, including humans, have created a benign environment quite unlike the harshness of Mercury, Venus and Mars, where electronics struggle to maintain reliability. So AI will look after us because we are important to the survival of AI. And then people talk about the Matrix, and anther rabbit hole/

 

But this 3rd Way might be as doomed as the others, It places too much faith in the infallability of technology; the expectation that technology will get better and better. Technology only gets better  when people maintain focus. People get bored, the products becomes stale, technology whithers ("good enough"). Capitalism fails because too much faith in the markets, which get upended by bad faith (human behaviour). Communism fails because of too much faith in the masses (alturism, it turns out the masses like genocide). Islamism fails because it turns out the word of God is <deleted> spouted by an illiterate drug dealer. Musk, if he's one of the architects or adherants to technocracy is autistic. So he gets bored quickly.  He obsessed about electric cars, and transformed the car market. he's bored of electric cars (Teslas are a bit old hat now, haven't really progressed in 10 years). He brought Twitter to make it the App of Everything. It now has less users. He's bored of that. His current obsessions are pumping out kids, and in his Aspergers head that will mean growing babies in pods, because thats a technocrat's faith in technology. He will get bored of that. He wants to go to Mars. Pretty sure he won't go to Mars, and he will be bored of rockets blowing up on the launchpad.

 

Revolutions need chaos. From chaos comes order, and that's the intent. Create chaos that you can pin  the mistakes on the failings of a person (a fall guy who will be dead soon), and then introduce the technocratic solutions to unpick these mistakes. People will be fully on board with that.

 

Come 2028, world trade will be in a mess, with hideously complicated tariff systems, and no one really happy. Americans won't be happy as they can no longer buy Scotch Whisky after the distillers pulled out of a non-profitable market in 2027. The Chinese are stuck with fake Burberry after the firm decided to stop selling Chinese made products in European markets. Australians miss Japanese cars, when all they can buy are cardboard Chinese pickups etc. Someone will propose a technological solution to balance supply and demand, so that everyone can buy Scotch whisky, Chinese Burberry and Japanese pickups., and we'd lap it up as prices come down, but in a good way (disinflation is normally a pretty bad sign in an economy). People will get sick of 5 years of Slavs swearing at each other over a table, fighting over bombed out industrial cesspools, home to only some cats and babooskhas, and will impose technological arbitration. Decisions imposed by assurance forces, who are sat in Switzerland controlling remote drones equipped with enforcement measures.

 

But the reality is the world will be in a mess. Treasury App 1.0 needs an upgrade after a 10 year old in Lesotho, with HIV, hacked it, and caused Vanuatu, now underwater (because one decided to leave the electric taps on all night), to be the richest country on Earth, and makes President Barron Knauss a one legged woman, because computer said no. Technological arbitration fails after the 50,000 AI-enabed loitering drones  with a 50 year battery life decide to broaden their definition of aussurance to a wider area because someone didn't realise there is a New York in Ukraine, but also one in, er, New York, and declares  everything between New York City Ukraine and New York City USA  to be in the DMZ and go on the rampage, making it the most impacting city twinning decision in history. Computer says No.

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I keep wondering about these tariffs, which rarely ever make sense especially when they're done in such a haphazard manner as the way Trump is attempting to impose them, and when they're imposed upon Canada and Mexico which are two of our biggest trading partners. It would appear that Wall Street and the car manufacturers are getting his ear and letting him know that his tariffs on Mexico and Canada could be a potential disaster. Hence the continuous Interruption of the tariffs and his bizarre cycle of "they are on today, and they're off tomorrow". 

 

I think it's becoming increasingly more obvious with his "cycle insanity" that Trump could be looking to destroy the US economy, intentionally.  There are few other reasons why, and there are few other explanations. This is not about protecting American jobs. That is a smoke screen, a false flag, as this will lead to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lost jobs in the US and worldwide.

 

So, why he would want to destroy the American economy is open to interpretation, whether or not he's following the dictates of the deep state (which have no party affiliation, it's just about power) or some other agenda that he has, but there's no question in my mind, he is looking to destroy the US economy, and that makes him an extremely dangerous man.

Can we expect another 3 something years of this sort of nonsense from the OP? Hatred will hurt the OP more than Trump, who doesn't know that the OP exists.

[hotsun]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Can we expect another 3 something years of this sort of nonsense from the OP? Hatred will hurt the OP more than Trump, who doesn't know that the OP exists.

Trump derangement has no cure

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, MicroB said:

If these decisions are eminating purely from him (I don't think they are, more from people who have gotten his ear), its more likely based on his experience in property development and how he thinks that can be applied to international relations and the world economy, which suggests, charitably, naivity. He thinks he shares the same qualities as other world leaders, and that he believes he has gotten to where he is through merit, because America is a meritous society; you work hard, you succeed. He would think he worked hard in business, and succeeded. Similarly, he'd think he worked hard in politics, and succeeded through votes at the ballot box, because he had to work  hard to get those votes (hence his innate scepticism that anyone he thinks couldn't work hard  shouldn't be earning votes).

Given the opinion of some that know more than you or I, Trump never expected to win, but he tapped into the hatred that many Americans hold for Washington and did win, to his and his

advisors' surprise ( hence his disorganisation at the start ).

 

IMO it's more likely that Trump looked at the incumbent president and the Dems and thought they were such a shower, and so bad for the US that he should wake Americans up to the peril they were in should Clinton win, and IMO that peril was very real. Far as I'm concerned, the western world was rescued from calamity by mere chance- such is life for humanity.

[novacova]

18 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Is it possible Trump is trying to sabotage the world economy?

No. Biden did that, seems you have forgotten.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, MicroB said:

I don't think the US President is sitting in his office with behind him a geological  map of Ukraine, a printed out spreadsheey from the Commerce Department to his left, a Bible to his right and a copy of the Constitution in front of him. He's being manipulated by people who see either someone like minded or someone open to suggestion, or both.

Of course he's manipulated. We all are, from the age we can read ( or more likely watch ) an advertisement, or realise that if we want to "fit in" with other people we have to wear jeans, listen to 50,000 varieties of garbage noise on a mobile phone and call it music, buy some tech that costs 50 times as much as some other brand that does the same job, get pissed or high ( depending on which mob of sheeple we want to be in ), be influenced by idiots on social media, and spend our money on disposable garbage.

IMO the real manipulation is done by people we will never know, who's only god is money and power, and are OK with condemning millions to death in stupid or pointless wars over something that could be resolved with some good faith and dialogue.

Their greatest achievement is fooling the masses that we do things because we choose to, and that "democracy" exists.

 

Eventually, humans will join the dinosaurs in the garbage bin of failed species, and hopefully the next version will be kinder to each other and care for the environment more than the present barbarians running the human world.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, MicroB said:

The Earth is a biosphere; life on earth, including humans, have created a benign environment quite unlike the harshness of Mercury, Venus and Mars

IMO you err on that. Nature created an environment that allowed life as it is to evolve, and there is nothing benign about the life on the planet, if one is a gazelle or an insect, or increasingly a human being.

 

Anyway, who is to say life does not exist on Mercury? Nothing says that it has to look like us.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, MicroB said:

Revolutions need chaos. From chaos comes order, and that's the intent. Create chaos that you can pin  the mistakes on the failings of a person (a fall guy who will be dead soon), and then introduce the technocratic solutions to unpick these mistakes. People will be fully on board with that.

 

IMO revolutions are created by the 1%, who always survive to still control the sheeple. There are more profits to be made in chaos than in peace, hence wars will continue and the Secretary General of the UN or whichever organisation replaces it will be fully occupied in wringing his/ her hands and begging us to play nicely.

[JAG]

I for one think it's rather simpler;

 

Trump is a narcissist. He thrives on being the center of attention - the poses with a resolute jaw, ( reminds me irresistibly of newsreel footage of Mussolini), the cameras, the staged events, the charades of signing the executive orders. His view and understanding of the political process is simplified to himself versus the rest,their opposition to him is seen as victimisation. It is all about Donald Trump.

 

He is amoral and feels no empathy.The.impact of his actions and their consequences are of no interest to him. It is all about Donald Trump.

 

He is backed and manipulated by an oligarchy which don't really care what he wants, what he does, what happens, as long as they have the power to enrich themselves even more. They have a plan,  to cement themselves in power and make themselves richer. Trump? I don't think he has a plan beyond being the center of attention. For him, it is all about Donald Trump.

 

 

[MicroB]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's more likely that Trump looked at the incumbent president and the Dems and thought they were such a shower, and so bad for the US that he should wake Americans up to the peril they were in should Clinton win, and IMO that peril was very real. Far as I'm concerned, the western world was rescued from calamity by mere chance- such is life for humanity.

 

In 2024, he didn't run against Clinton.

 

Lets see in 4 years time if any of us are either still alive, or living in penury. If we make it, its by chance, not by design. If we don't, none of this matters. It might be out of the pot into the frying pan. I see no evidence, given his direct threats of violence against some of his closest allies that the "Western World" will be saved. I am aghast at the levels of support people have expressed for his brand of imperialism. I thought we left that behind circa 1895.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, MicroB said:

I see no evidence, given his direct threats of violence against some of his closest allies that the "Western World" will be saved.

IMO the western world was doomed the minute it didn't mock relentlessly the idea that more than 2 genders existed or that a man could be a real girl. Not because of them per se, but because it proved that insane ideas can be treated as acceptable by the sheeple. An insane society will not survive for too long.

In any event, we have polluted the planet to the point the environmental catastrophe we will have was created entirely and wholly by ourselves, and we deserve to suffer for it.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 minutes ago, MicroB said:

I am aghast at the levels of support people have expressed for his brand of imperialism. I thought we left that behind circa 1895.

Seems that many are aghast at the version Obama/ Clinton/ Biden/ Harris supported and want it gone at any cost.

 

Trump an imperialist? Thou jest methinks. I doubt Trump even understands what imperialism is. Whatever Trump is it's not Megabrain.

[BangkokReady]

45 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the western world was doomed the minute it didn't mock relentlessly the idea that more than 2 genders existed or that a man could be a real girl.

 

That and all the "take a knee" nonsense that people were doing during covid.  Really shocking.

[Harrisfan]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Can we expect another 3 something years of this sort of nonsense from the OP? Hatred will hurt the OP more than Trump, who doesn't know that the OP exists.

Yes. Anti Trump hysteria. 2017,2018,2019 all good.

 

These socialists have lost it.

[Harrisfan]

What has Trump done wrong? Why are people pro war but anti tariffs. I find it incredible they want young guys to die in their thousands but scared about market shocks due to tariffs.

 

The whingers on here are more selfish than Trump.

 

 

[Harrisfan]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

He is amoral and feels no empathy.The.impact of his actions and their consequences are of no interest to him. It is all about Donald Trump.

Are you not a pro war guy? 

[Tidal wave]

Trump shouts Tariff' and 6 of Elon's kids puts their hand up  

[JAG]

15 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Are you not a pro war guy? 

No, most emphatically not.

 

During my long, if not particularly glorious service in the army I served in a number of wars and conflicts. ( two of them American led, and both of which were essentially a waste of blood and treasure). Unlike many here I am aware of the horrors of war, and have seen it's effects upon soldiers and civilians. I come from a society (Europe), which has twice been ripped apart by the bloody horrors of war.

 

I am also, as a former soldier and a student of history aware that there are times, terrible as it is, when one has to fight to prevent an even greater evil. Ukraine is one of those, simply because if Putin gets what he wants in Ukraine he will go on to unleash still greater horrors on the Baltic and Eastern Europe.

 

To reduce the whole arguement to such glib political sloganeering as "Are you not a pro war guy" with a silly little emoji is silly, demeaning to the victims of war, demeaning to those who have fought, and deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[pomchop]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

I for one think it's rather simpler;

 

Trump is a narcissist. He thrives on being the center of attention - the poses with a resolute jaw, ( reminds me irresistibly of newsreel footage of Mussolini), the cameras, the staged events, the charades of signing the executive orders. His view and understanding of the political process is simplified to himself versus the rest,their opposition to him is seen as victimisation. It is all about Donald Trump.

 

He is amoral and feels no empathy.The.impact of his actions and their consequences are of no interest to him. It is all about Donald Trump.

 

He is backed and manipulated by an oligarchy which don't really care what he wants, what he does, what happens, as long as they have the power to enrich themselves even more. They have a plan,  to cement themselves in power and make themselves richer. Trump? I don't think he has a plan beyond being the center of attention. For him, it is all about Donald Trump.

 

keep shoving those big macs down and see how that works out..not exactly a picture of health

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/476558274_10085372174811029_3838381783674579625_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_p526x296_tt6&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=kWfYh9TyEgEQ7kNvgERzJ41&_nc_oc=AdhzDlubjpOjBYIzOeFarcivgtSGitOwkkNeXvh_IkF7hVkAYQpsKP-IY98w2LfYCxY&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&_nc_gid=AA-fewpfAIlh8hIZhovzGB5&oh=00_AYH962GFIQ0V-tfGp1WgHffO5plAVfkaG5porOwaxM48Xg&oe=67D2C0E0

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

 

That and all the "take a knee" nonsense that people were doing during covid.  Really shocking.

Yes, and all that covid nonsense and claiming that driving a car was destroying the planet.

[Presnock]

20 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I keep wondering about these tariffs, which rarely ever make sense especially when they're done in such a haphazard manner as the way Trump is attempting to impose them, and when they're imposed upon Canada and Mexico which are two of our biggest trading partners. It would appear that Wall Street and the car manufacturers are getting his ear and letting him know that his tariffs on Mexico and Canada could be a potential disaster. Hence the continuous Interruption of the tariffs and his bizarre cycle of "they are on today, and they're off tomorrow". 

 

I think it's becoming increasingly more obvious with his "cycle insanity" that Trump could be looking to destroy the US economy, intentionally.  There are few other reasons why, and there are few other explanations. This is not about protecting American jobs. That is a smoke screen, a false flag, as this will lead to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lost jobs in the US and worldwide.

 

So, why he would want to destroy the American economy is open to interpretation, whether or not he's following the dictates of the deep state (which have no party affiliation, it's just about power) or some other agenda that he has, but there's no question in my mind, he is looking to destroy the US economy, and that makes him an extremely dangerous man.

Putin's marionette me thinks!  Trump has been a loser his whole life faking much of the riches and lifestyle and he now realizes that he is near the end of his life so wants to destroy all those folks who aren't losers IMHO.  Former President Hoover is a wellknown TARIFF man which brought about the Great Depression.  Maybe Trump is trying to out do Hoover by causing the next Great Depression.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, JAG said:

I am also, as a former soldier and a student of history aware that there are times, terrible as it is, when one has to fight to prevent an even greater evil. Ukraine is one of those, simply because if Putin gets what he wants in Ukraine he will go on to unleash still greater horrors on the Baltic and Eastern Europe.

My question to you is, if we ignore greater atrocities, such as in Burma and Sudan, not forgetting Tibet ( where the west did absolutely NOTHING to stop a nation being taken over by the communists tyrants ), why is it necessary for the west to get involved in Ukraine? Don't give me any saving democracy BS, please.

 

Is it because they are white ( so are the Russians ), and the Burmese and Africans are not, or is it because they have resources that WE want?

 

IMO it's just hypocrisy writ large and large amounts of propaganda.

 

PS I reject absolutely any idea that Russia will attempt to invade any NATO country.

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, JAG said:

I am also, as a former soldier and a student of history aware that there are times, terrible as it is, when one has to fight to prevent an even greater evil.

I too, am "a former soldier and a student of history", and I see no reason to claim that Russia taking the Russian aligned Eastern areas of Ukraine is any indication that the Russian tanks will be trundling through the Arc de Triomphe in due course.

 

My life's wars, Vietnam and Afghanistan part 1 were  touted as stopping the Communists, and failed utterly to do so ( Gorbachev ended Afghanistan, not the allies ). The other major conflicts, bar the Korean adventure, were based on BS, and oil IMO. The exception would be Afghanistan Part 2 which went on for 20 years for reasons I can not deduce- it certainly wasn't for oil and it wasn't so Afghan girls could go to school.

 

The only one in which I think we should get involved, stopping China taking Taiwan ( if it's not just BS by Xi yanking our chain ), is likely to be ignored, bar wringing of hands and some words ( providing the chip making facilities are safely in the US prior to conflict ).

[Presnock]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My question to you is, if we ignore greater atrocities, such as in Burma and Sudan, not forgetting Tibet ( where the west did absolutely NOTHING to stop a nation being taken over by the communists tyrants ), why is it necessary for the west to get involved in Ukraine? Don't give me any saving democracy BS, please.

 

Is it because they are white ( so are the Russians ), and the Burmese and Africans are not, or is it because they have resources that WE want?

 

IMO it's just hypocrisy writ large and large amounts of propaganda.

 

PS I reject absolutely any idea that Russia will attempt to invade any NATO country.

Well I too am a vet with ten years deeply involved in the VN fiasco.   The big problem with these incursions by communists is that we have weak leaders.  Once one stands by and lets someone like Putin blatantly violate the agreements he has signed then the precedent is set and subsequent leaders also being weak try their damnest to avoid any conflict except ones in which the US has a vested monetary/minerals/oil interest.  The UN is so weak, it is a total wasted time and money to get them to really do anything against countries violating international laws.  Leaders of some countries are supposedly charged with violations by the international courts but even if  one is tried, he will probably be offered asylum in another S&%thole country.  Sanctions on violating countries are a big joke IMHO as groups of bad guys hang together and our govt still allows violations to continue.  Oncve O and Co. didn't stop Russia taking the Crimea, spelled the eventual doom for the Ukraine; but, that was preceded by Ruissia and Georgia.   Seems only Russia is worried about bordering western countries but which of them does anyone really believe has any interest in invading Russia?  Same with communists in Asia, XI or his successor will welcome Taiwan back into Chinese rule and we can easily see that China has already taken over Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and it sure seems to me that others here want to join that BRICS group, the east against the west.  Trump of course threatens TARIFFs on them too what a joke he is, a bad one for the world though IMHO again.

[frank83628]

2 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

In 2024, he didn't run against Clinton.

 

Lets see in 4 years time if any of us are either still alive, or living in penury. If we make it, its by chance, not by design. If we don't, none of this matters. It might be out of the pot into the frying pan. I see no evidence, given his direct threats of violence against some of his closest allies that the "Western World" will be saved. I am aghast at the levels of support people have expressed for his brand of imperialism. I thought we left that behind circa 1895.

Direct threats of violence ?