Could Trump's plan fail in a spectacular fashion?

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It would appear at this point that Trump's seesaw approach to tariffs is having a dire effect on the US economy, thousands of jobs are being lost every day, the stock market is crashing (and believe me that crash has only just begun) and many countries are re-thinking their relationships with the US, realizing that the US is not the dependable ally they thought it was.

The signs are not good...............

 

For two years, US stocks went virtually straight up. In a matter of weeks, that’s been turned upside down, and as the equities selloff intensifies Wall Street is wondering where it stops.

 

The tech-heavy Nasdaq 100 Index plunged 3% on Monday, now on pace for its worst quarter since 2022.

The S&P 500 Index sank 2%, teetering closer to a correction after tumbling roughly 8% since its February 19 peak.

 

The index is on track to close below its 200-day moving average for the first time since November 2023, snapping a streak of 336 sessions above its long-term support line.

 

Tesla shares plunged more than 15% on Monday (Tuesday NZT), hitting their lowest point since before Election Day as investors registered the impact of falling sales and increasing protests over the high-profile political role that Elon Musk, the company’s CEO, has taken on.

 

In afternoon trading, the electric-car maker’s shares were down more than 15% for the day, and more than 50% from a mid-December peak. The day’s loss far outstripped the 2.5% drop in the S&P 500.

 

The mask is coming off...

 

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Not anymore. Trump has singlehandedly destroyed the US brand.

And demand for US made orange makeup has also slumped!!

[Cameroni]

15 minutes ago, candide said:

There is a lack of coherence in your reasoning. If the U.S. can relatively easily substitute imports from some countries by imports from other countries, it will not bring back jobs to the U.S. So a lot of trouble for nothing!

 

You cited the example of gas, which is a single standard commodity which can easily be substituted. If you had some understanding of industrial companies, you would know that it's far from being easy to change sourcing of suppliers. There's the same issue with MAGAs and Brexiteers. They completely ignore the difficulty of finding reliable suppliers and profitable customers. Companies are struggling every day about it, and cannot change easily by magic.

 

As to the share of GDP represented by exports, it 's not so different from the EU. 11% for the U.S. and 15% for the EU. Oh, and Nikes and Apple are mainly produced in China!.

 

You cited the case of the boycott of Israel. It failed because few people were personally feeling concerned. It won't be the case with a trade war. For example, there is a growing resentment against the U.S. in Europe after the aggressive and smearing statements, as well as announced adverse decisions, by the U.S.. Add to it, if tariffs are actually implemented, seeing domestic businesses in trouble and workers being laid-off, the perspective of a boycott is not unrealistic.

 

It is perfectly coherent. What you fail to grasp is the reason why Canada, Mexico and China are slapped with tarriffs. Canada is effectively being subsidized with 60 billion USD each year by the US and the US is getting nothing in return for this. Now obviously faced with the current tariffs Canada will offer the US a lot more, as indeed it has already been doing. If not, the US can get its aluminium, potash and lumber from other sources which are not ripping off the US. So the tariffs are certainly not "for nothing". These tarriffs will reshape the economic relationship with Canada in the favour of the US.

 

Gas is not easily substituted, if you knew anything about this process they had to build specific facilities in Germany for the new gas, it was process that required some work. But it is actually not that hard to find aluminium and steel and other materials, Russia would be a happy supplier. Again the rapprochment with Russia is starting to make a lot of sense. See, coherence`?

 

As for  your "resentment" it is only felt by certain contingent in Europe, many people love America in Europe and will continue to do so, a boycott is a non starter. Just ask Israel.

 

 

[Harrisfan]

4 hours ago, theshu25 said:

He does have a concept of a plan.

 

4 hours ago, theshu25 said:

The village idiot has not got the brain to have a plan. No way this idiot can last 4 yrs,and thats including the 2 years the mongol will spend playing golf.

What plan do you have? You can't even write two sentences without error.

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, Cameroni said:

America is now benefitting from tariffs that will result in people in the end having to buy US made products because they are much cheaper.

America is benefiting from tariffs right now? That's interesting, since even Donald Trump isn't claiming that. He says there will be some temporary disruption before the benefits are felt.

 

So please give us some examples of the benefits that are currently being experienced by Americans.

[steven100]

4 hours ago, G Rex said:

I am amazed at the rubbish this smug orange creature spouts daily.

Every day a different lie or ridiculous exaggeration.

I don't understand why he is not quizzed by the main stream media more - is everyone in his pocket?

I do not think he actually has a coherent 'plan'.

of coarse he doesn't have a plan ....  he just waffles on and on ....  hoping to hear the crowd cheer.

 

he's an idiot,  as is his bi_ch .. Vance,, 

[Harrisfan]

2 minutes ago, steven100 said:

of coarse he doesn't have a plan ....  he just waffles on and on ....  hoping to hear the crowd cheer.

 

he's an idiot,  as is his bi_ch .. Vance,, 

Border fixed. War over soon. Debt reduced. Three plans.

[candide]

18 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It is perfectly coherent. What you fail to grasp is the reason why Canada, Mexico and China are slapped with tarriffs. Canada is effectively being subsidized with 60 billion USD each year by the US and the US is getting nothing in return for this. Now obviously faced with the current tariffs Canada will offer the US a lot more, as indeed it has already been doing. If not, the US can get its aluminium, potash and lumber from other sources which are not ripping off the US. So the tariffs are certainly not "for nothing". These tarriffs will reshape the economic relationship with Canada in the favour of the US.

 

Gas is not easily substituted, if you knew anything about this process they had to build specific facilities in Germany for the new gas, it was process that required some work. But it is actually not that hard to find aluminium and steel and other materials, Russia would be a happy supplier. Again the rapprochment with Russia is starting to make a lot of sense. See, coherence`?

 

As for  your "resentment" it is only felt by certain contingent in Europe, many people love America in Europe and will continue to do so, a boycott is a non starter. Just ask Israel.

 

 

Still incoherent. The U.S. is not subsidising Canada. The U.S. can probably get aluminium, potash etc... from other sources, but it won't be cheaper. Probably more expensive considering transportation cost. So no benefit in doing so. And from a strategic point of view, it is less risky to be dependent from Canada than from Russia 

 

About the boycott issue, you come up with the same irrelevant comparison (Israel). Nobody cares about boycotting Israel because nobody is affected by Israeli policy (apart from Palestinian and close neighbours). Look at Tesla rather than Israel....

Many people in Europe love America but many people are increasingly disliking Trump and its policies, and it can only worsen if they are affected by tariffs and other decisions.

[Harrisfan]

7 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

America is benefiting from tariffs right now? That's interesting, since even Donald Trump isn't claiming that. He says there will be some temporary disruption before the benefits are felt.

 

So please give us some examples of the benefits that are currently being experienced by Americans.

190 countries have tariffs now. If no benefits why have any?

[Purdey]

Ontario is adding a surcharge to electricity sent to the US. In his Truth Social post Trump wrote: "Despite the fact that Canada is charging the USA from 250% to 390% Tariffs on many of our farm products, Ontario just announced a 25% surcharge on 'electricity,' of all things, and your (sic) not even allowed to do that. Because our Tariffs are reciprocal, we'll just get it all back on April 2. It seems things are about to escalate.

[Cameroni]

17 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

America is benefiting from tariffs right now? That's interesting, since even Donald Trump isn't claiming that. He says there will be some temporary disruption before the benefits are felt.

 

So please give us some examples of the benefits that are currently being experienced by Americans.

• President Donald Trump imposed new tariffs, effective March 4, 2025, including a 25% duty on imports from Canada and Mexico, with Canadian energy resources subject to a reduced 10% tariff. Tariffs on Chinese imports were raised from 10% to 20%.

• Tariffs on products from Mexico and Canada, eligible under USMCA, are excluded from the additional tariffs. Approximately 50% of the products of Mexico and 38% of Canadian products qualify under USMCA.

• USMCA covered products include automobiles and parts and produce. While some potash, used in fertilizer, qualifies under USMCA, other potash, which is not qualifying, will carry a 10% tariff rather than 25%.

• Starting March 12, global steel and aluminum imports will face an additional 25% tariff.

https://www.gtlaw.com/en/insights/2025/3/tariffs-update-imposed-paused-changed-and-reciprocal-tariffs-involving-the-us-canada-china-and-mexico-as-of-march-7

[Cameroni]

12 minutes ago, candide said:

Still incoherent. The U.S. is not subsidising Canada. The U.S. can probably get aluminium, potash etc... from other sources, but it won't be cheaper. Probably more expensive considering transportation cost. So no benefit in doing so. And from a strategic point of view, it is less risky to be dependent from Canada than from Russia 

 

 

The US is subsidising Canada with 60 billion USD each year. What does the US gain from this? This massive trade deficit with Canada is not in the US interest, and if the tarriffed items can be obtained elsewhere, say from Russia the trade deficit with Russia would be nothing like with Canada. Plus it would give the US more leverage with this important country. Canada is not important, as you can see, so it makes little sense to be so economically tied to Canada.

 

Well, good luck with your boycott of the US, it will be a tad difficult I can tell you now. And will of course ultimately fail.

[worgeordie]

What plan ....He is creating a right mess , and it's only going to get much worse.

 

regards worgeordie

[Patong2021]

50 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It is perfectly coherent. What you fail to grasp is the reason why Canada, Mexico and China are slapped with tarriffs. Canada is effectively being subsidized with 60 billion USD each year by the US and the US is getting nothing in return for this. Now obviously faced with the current tariffs Canada will offer the US a lot more, as indeed it has already been doing. If not, the US can get its aluminium, potash and lumber from other sources which are not ripping off the US. So the tariffs are certainly not "for nothing". These tarriffs will reshape the economic relationship with Canada in the favour of the US.

 

Gas is not easily substituted, if you knew anything about this process they had to build specific facilities in Germany for the new gas, it was process that required some work. But it is actually not that hard to find aluminium and steel and other materials, Russia would be a happy supplier. Again the rapprochment with Russia is starting to make a lot of sense. See, coherence`?

 

As for  your "resentment" it is only felt by certain contingent in Europe, many people love America in Europe and will continue to do so, a boycott is a non starter. Just ask Israel.

 

 

 

The USA does not subsidize Canada. Repeating a false claim from Trump does not make it true. As per TD bank; With respect to Trump’s assertion that the U.S. subsidizes Canada to the tune of US$200 billion per year, it’s unclear where this number is derived. In any event, rather than a subsidy, the U.S. trade deficit is a by-product of U.S. economic outperformance relative to other countries.

 

You write that  "Now obviously faced with the current tariffs Canada will offer the US a lot more, as indeed it has already been doing. If not, the US can get its aluminium, potash and lumber from other sources which are not ripping off the US."

Absolute crap. Canada is not offering anything now other than reciprocal tariffs. Where will the USA source  aluminum, potash and lumber? You are engaging in a word dump that demonstrates that you know absolutely nothing about the  main suppliers of these critical items. The only alternatives to Canada  aluminum are China, Russia and India.  There is no  cost competitive alternative for Canadian lumber, and Russia is the only alternative to Canadian potash and it is of lower quality and more expensive.

 

Please tell us why and how  the USA would benefit from more imports from Russia and China.

You have the logic of a small time day trader.

[steven100]

19 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Border fixed. War over soon. Debt reduced. Three plans.

just for you ....

[johng]

13 minutes ago, steven100 said:

just for you ....

 

Here for the record the above "meme"  is in fact a deep fake !!!

just in case we get to Idiocracy  the above didn't happen and

PS feed the plants water not gatoraide   and Hitler is not Putin  while the dinosaurs roamed.

[steven100]

Just now, johng said:

 

Here for the record the above "meme"  is in fact a deep fake !!!

just in case we get to Idiocracy  the above didn't happen and

PS feed the plants water not gatoraide   and Hitler is not Putin  while the dinosaurs roamed.

whatever you say Putin boy... 

[Cameroni]

28 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The USA does not subsidize Canada. Repeating a false claim from Trump does not make it true

 

The US does subsidize Canada with 60 billion USD each year. Let me explain it to you. If you make shirts and i make coats, and I sell to you 100 USD worth of coats and you are selling me 160 USD worth of shirts, then I am subsidizing you with 60 USD. This is what Canada is doing with the US. It is just not a good deal for the US and Trump is right to call Canada out on this.

 

33 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Canada is not offering anything now other than reciprocal tariffs.

 

Simply not true, Canada has been bending over backwards doing a ballerina pirouette telling Trump "pretty please we are now improving border controls, do not tariff us".

 

And yes, the US can get aluminium from Russia and most likely on better terms and prices than from Canada, and probably better quality too. This would have the added advantage of not having the crazy rip off trade deficit the Canadians have got away with for so long, like thieves in the night.

[ronnie50]

6 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

Americans are liked more than most.

Oh that is hilarious. 

[Bannoi]

7 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

Americans are liked more than most.

Must be nice living in a MAGA bubble you need to get out more.

[MicroB]

Why are American executives buying BMWs, Mercedes Benz, Bentleys, Rolls Royces and not American made Cadillacs and Lincolns? Its not because the Cadillacs and Lincolns are too expensive. What American cars are Europeans not buying because they are taxed too much. Cars like the Corvette and Mustang are cheaper in Europe than their peers.

 

Why did the American President buy himself an Italian sportscar and not a Pontiac Fiero? American not good enough?

 

[MicroB]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

The signs are not good...............

 

For two years, US stocks went virtually straight up. In a matter of weeks, that’s been turned upside down, and as the equities selloff intensifies Wall Street is wondering where it stops.

 

The tech-heavy Nasdaq 100 Index plunged 3% on Monday, now on pace for its worst quarter since 2022.

The S&P 500 Index sank 2%, teetering closer to a correction after tumbling roughly 8% since its February 19 peak.

 

The index is on track to close below its 200-day moving average for the first time since November 2023, snapping a streak of 336 sessions above its long-term support line.

 

Tesla shares plunged more than 15% on Monday (Tuesday NZT), hitting their lowest point since before Election Day as investors registered the impact of falling sales and increasing protests over the high-profile political role that Elon Musk, the company’s CEO, has taken on.

 

In afternoon trading, the electric-car maker’s shares were down more than 15% for the day, and more than 50% from a mid-December peak. The day’s loss far outstripped the 2.5% drop in the S&P 500.

 

The mask is coming off...

 

 

A very Glaswegian looking face. Make it a pint of 80 shilling and a wee pie.

[Bannoi]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

One thing is for certain, he's being very poorly advised by highly inexperienced and incompetent people

He sacked them all and surrounded himself with yes men.

 

If he continues to destroy the economy it wouldn't surprise me if  someone or a group of people or organisation found a way to get rid of him and possibly the VP as well at the same time.

[BillyBid]

6 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Just like his Health Care Plan which after 13 years only turned out to be just the 'concepts of a plan'.

 

And even that was a lie.

[candide]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

The US is subsidising Canada with 60 billion USD each year. What does the US gain from this? This massive trade deficit with Canada is not in the US interest, and if the tarriffed items can be obtained elsewhere, say from Russia the trade deficit with Russia would be nothing like with Canada. Plus it would give the US more leverage with this important country. Canada is not important, as you can see, so it makes little sense to be so economically tied to Canada.

 

Well, good luck with your boycott of the US, it will be a tad difficult I can tell you now. And will of course ultimately fail.

Canada's GDP is a bit higher than Russia's GDP...

[Cameroni]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Canada's GDP is a bit higher than Russia's GDP...

 

Only thanks to the US. Not much in it, and if the money from Canada goes to Russia instead, Russia could soon have the higher GDP.

[Cameroni]

21 minutes ago, MicroB said:

Why are American executives buying BMWs, Mercedes Benz, Bentleys, Rolls Royces and not American made Cadillacs and Lincolns? Its not because the Cadillacs and Lincolns are too expensive. What American cars are Europeans not buying because they are taxed too much. Cars like the Corvette and Mustang are cheaper in Europe than their peers.

 

Why did the American President buy himself an Italian sportscar and not a Pontiac Fiero? American not good enough?

 

 

The US is not communist Cambodia, people will still be able to buy any product they choose, they will just have to pay a much higher price for a non American product. Even if some can pay that price, the vast majority will buy the cheaper product, hence tariffs will make US products more attractive to Americans, hence tariffs work and will be an excellent idea to save US and create US jobs.

[advancebooking]

8 hours ago, Cameroni said:

America is now benefitting from tariffs

hahahahaha

[advancebooking]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Tesla shares plunged more than 15%

I checked on my phone how much they have declined in 3 months.....  47% haha. som nom na

[Cameroni]

Just now, advancebooking said:

hahahahaha

 

You can play the short term clown or you can look at the long term effects tariffs will have, make US products more attractive and save and create US jobs. Not to mention fill US coffers with tariff money.