The US Debt Problem

[NoDisplayName]

39 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

That yield increase means America has to pay more to service its debt.

 

In 2024, the U.S. government is projected to spend a record $1.2 trillion on interest payments for its national debt, which is significantly higher than previous years due to rising interest rates and increased borrowing. This amount surpasses military spending for the first time in history.

 

Winning!©

[nauseus]

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

This is nonsense of course. The US economy is considerably larger than 36 trillion USD. The US creates 29 trillion USD of GDP in wealth every single year. But this figure does not account for many other existing assets of the US economy.

 

 

  34 minutes ago, nauseus said:

At $36trillion (£29trillion), the national  US debt is larger than the economy: it is the highest in the world.

 

This nonsense here is you replying to posts that I did not put up. It might appear to some that you are dishonest. 

[NoDisplayName]

38 minutes ago, swissie said:

Or even more better: Kick off some hyperinflation. The most elegant solution.

 

I'll gladly pay you now for a hamburger next Tuesday!

 

[frank83628]

5 hours ago, bannork said:

At $36trillion (£29trillion), the national  US debt is larger than the economy: it is the highest in the world.

US debt rose from $5.8trillion in 2001, with Trump adding $7.8trillion in his first term, and Biden piling on another $8.5trillion during his tenure.

However, the US government has been able to borrow almost unlimited amounts of money at reasonable rates of interest thanks to the status of Treasury bonds.

In other words IOUs, as the ultimate in secure investments.

Foreign governments have been big holders of US Treasuries because of their perceived security status.

What to do?

Stephen Miran, chair of Trump's council of economic advisers, proposed the 'Mar-a-Lago accord', a plan whereby foreign governments would be 'persuaded' into trading in the Treasuries they currently hold for much longer dated US debt, with maturities of up to 100 years.

Trump has, however, recklessly squandered goodwill among former allies who might have been open to persuasion.

Now it's 'Donald no mates' Trump except for Russia, Belarus and Israel.

And China, the second-largest holder of US Treasuries holding about $760billion, is rumoured to have been steadily reducing their holdings, prompting Trump to refer to people getting 'yippy'.

RUTH SUNDERLAND: Donald Trump has a big debt problem

OMG, your country is in so much debt, so how does this affect you personally as a US taxpayer? Always interested to hear

[Cameroni]

33 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

Debt problem has been worsening

 

There is no debt problem. The US economy is comfortably able to service the debt it has, as it creates 29 trillion USD in GDP every single year.

 

The total market value of the US stock market is another 111 trillion USD.

 

The total value of US real estate is another 50 trillion USD.

 

In short, the US is so rich, nobody even knows exactly how rich it is. But it is richer than God, and easily able to service its debt.

 

 

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

In effect the US could easily wipe out its debt. Yes, 36 trillion USD of debt sounds like a lot, but when you factor in that the US creates wealth of 29 trillion USD GDP EVERY SINGLE YEAR, you quickly realise that the US debt is not a problem.

 

You understand GDP is NOT a measure of wealth, it is a measure of economic activity, a measure of finance flows.  It's the total of goods and services produced throughout the year, not cash in the bank.

 

Saying we can pay off the debt in under two years is something you'd learn at Trump university, where it seems all his casino managers graduated from.

 

Set off a nukular bomb in Dallas and the rebuilding costs would be included in GDP.  That would likely be upwards of $10 Trillion.  So the fastest way to eliminate the debt would be to nuke San Francisco and Los Angeles.

 

Winning!©

 

 

[worgeordie]

6 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

There is no debt problem. The US economy is comfortably able to service the debt it has, as it creates 29 trillion USD in GDP every single year.

 

The total market value of the US stock market is another 111 trillion USD.

 

The total value of US real estate is another 50 trillion USD.

 

In short, the US is so rich, nobody even knows exactly how rich it is. But it is richer than God, and easily able to service its debt.

 

 

 

 

There is no debt problem. Keep saying that and it might become true ,

 

regards Worgeordie

[black tabby12345]

14 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

There is no debt problem. The US economy is comfortably able to service the debt it has, as it creates 29 trillion USD in GDP every single year.

 

The total market value of the US stock market is another 111 trillion USD.

 

The total value of US real estate is another 50 trillion USD.

 

In short, the US is so rich, nobody even knows exactly how rich it is. But it is richer than God, and easily able to service its debt.

 

 

 

 

 

You look like missing something fundamental.

 

In today's US(since 1980s), the economy doesn't function without capital flow from outside.

US is so heavily into debt(both in govt and financial sector) that it is no longer capable of funding own country by itself.

Despite of that fact, US of A could still go with that much debt.

Simply because the free world trusted it(and lent their money to support US=buying US bond).

But now, things changed almost overnight, due to DT's anti-free world move.

 

Trump Doctrine: New isolationism.

But in reality, USA can no longer live like that, unlike old time.

Back Then(pre-WW2 period-1950-60s) when USA was quite Self-Sufficient; capable of funding own govt and the industries without foreign capitals.

 

But not like that anymore, as stated earlier in this text.

In other words, US(after 1980s) no longer has what They Used To Have in good old time.

 

How can you expect to live like old days while not having what is essential for that?

 

That's why I call Trump followers' "aspiration(of resuming domestic production of capital and consumer goods in US)" Empty Illusion.

 

Trump himself undoubtfully knows that it is totally impossible; only quoting such a slogan as the meaning of psychological manipulation(taking advantage of people's ignorance) for own gain.

 

If you study the history of own country a bit, you will easily understand though.

Compare the present time, and period before 1970s.

Homework for you.

[Cameroni]

24 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

You look like missing something fundamental.

 

In today's US(since 1980s), the economy doesn't function without capital flow from outside.

US is so heavily into debt(both in govt and financial sector) that it is no longer capable of funding own country by itself.

Despite of that fact, US of A could still go with that much debt.

Simply because the free world trusted it(and lent their money to support US=buying US bond).

But now, things changed almost overnight, due to DT's anti-free world move.

 

Trump Doctrine: New isolationism.

But in reality, USA can no longer live like that, unlike old time.

Back Then(pre-WW2 period-1950-60s) when USA was quite Self-Sufficient; capable of funding own govt and the industries without foreign capitals.

 

But not like that anymore, as stated earlier in this text.

In other words, US(after 1980s) no longer has what They Used To Have in good old time.

 

How can you expect to live like old days while not having what is essential for that?

 

That's why I call Trump followers' "aspiration(of resuming domestic production of capital and consumer goods in US)" Empty Illusion.

 

Trump himself undoubtfully knows that it is totally impossible; only quoting such a slogan as the meaning of psychological manipulation(taking advantage of people's ignorance) for own gain.

 

If you study the history of own country a bit, you will easily understand though.

Compare the present time, and period before 1970s.

Homework for you.

 

Yah, that's a steaming pile of caca de toro, unfortuantely. You see every single country in the western world is in the same position, overspending and going to the capital markets to fund its spending. However, the US is different. Unlike other countries, the US is not dependent on exports, it has its own giant domestic market. Yes, it also chooses to fund spending by using the capital markets, like any sane country would do, however, the USA is significantly richer than any of these countries. Its currency DETERMINES the value of other currencies. As you can see now, live and on TV, the US can restructure global trade at will. The economic power of the US is unparallelled in human history.

 

Not just its economic power, of course, its military power too, if the US were so inclined it could loot and pillage any country it chooses. It just doesn't need to do so yet because its economy is so unspeakably powerful.

 

All this nonsense of "oh the us economy can't go on", where's the evidence for it? Stock market worth 111 trillion. Real Estate worth 50 trillion.  GDP 29 trillion every single year. Some homework for you, discover how rich the USA really is.

[SiSePuede419]

Debt Added by U.S. Presidents (in trillions)

1. (Tie) Donald Trump ~$8T

            Barack Obama ~$8T

2. (Tie) Joe Biden ~$6T

             George W. Bush ~$6T

3. Ronald Reagan ~$2T

4. All others $1.5T

 

Hey!  We're in the Top 3  😄

[SiSePuede419]

3 hours ago, Cameroni said:

The economic power of the US is unparallelled in human history.

I have created a short comic book for kids called "Tarrif Good" to explain it to MAGAs using simple words from Dear Leader, so you can understand...

 

Hope this helps. 😀

 

[Cameroni]

17 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

I have created a short comic book for kids

 

I much prefer Batman, DC comics, of course another gift from the US to the world. You're welcome!

 

Unspeakable riches. Not just financially, culturally too.

[3NUMBAS]

China has 200 billion of US assets which it can sell any time

[BritManToo]

45 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

China has 200 billion of US assets which it can sell any time

In order to sell, you must first find a buyer!

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Debt Added by U.S. Presidents (in trillions)

1. (Tie) Donald Trump ~$8T

            Barack Obama ~$8T

2. (Tie) Joe Biden ~$6T

             George W. Bush ~$6T

3. Ronald Reagan ~$2T

4. All others $1.5T

 

Hey!  We're in the Top 3  😄

First off, those aren't inflation adjusted figures for Reagan and Bush. And they slashed taxes but promised that increased growth would pay for them.That was an obvious lie at the time and history has confirmed  Counterscyclical spending under Obama was due to the 2008 financial crisis. The worst financial crisis since the great depression  With Trump it's more complicated. Part of that is due to his tax cut which he promised would pay for itself with increased economic activity it didn't. But part of it was due to covid and the need for countercyclical spending due to Covid. Biden, too, had to spend to counter the effects of covid on the economy. And once again, Trump is pushing for a tax cut and Congress is cooking the books to give it to him.

[cjinchiangrai]

Wait until the selloff of Chinese held T-Bills. Trump poked the bear and it will not end well.

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Debt Added by U.S. Presidents (in trillions)

1. (Tie) Donald Trump ~$8T

            Barack Obama ~$8T

2. (Tie) Joe Biden ~$6T

             George W. Bush ~$6T

3. Ronald Reagan ~$2T

4. All others $1.5T

 

Hey!  We're in the Top 3  😄

 

Your numbers are all wrong.

 

Where did you find them? 

[placeholder]

Tax Cuts Are Primarily Responsible for the Increasing Debt Ratio

Without the Bush and Trump tax cuts, debt as a percentage of the economy would be declining permanently.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/tax-cuts-are-primarily-responsible-for-the-increasing-debt-ratio/

[frank83628]

On 4/14/2025 at 3:32 PM, bannork said:

At $36trillion (£29trillion), the national  US debt is larger than the economy: it is the highest in the world.

US debt rose from $5.8trillion in 2001, with Trump adding $7.8trillion in his first term, and Biden piling on another $8.5trillion during his tenure.

However, the US government has been able to borrow almost unlimited amounts of money at reasonable rates of interest thanks to the status of Treasury bonds.

In other words IOUs, as the ultimate in secure investments.

Foreign governments have been big holders of US Treasuries because of their perceived security status.

What to do?

Stephen Miran, chair of Trump's council of economic advisers, proposed the 'Mar-a-Lago accord', a plan whereby foreign governments would be 'persuaded' into trading in the Treasuries they currently hold for much longer dated US debt, with maturities of up to 100 years.

Trump has, however, recklessly squandered goodwill among former allies who might have been open to persuasion.

Now it's 'Donald no mates' Trump except for Russia, Belarus and Israel.

And China, the second-largest holder of US Treasuries holding about $760billion, is rumoured to have been steadily reducing their holdings, prompting Trump to refer to people getting 'yippy'.

RUTH SUNDERLAND: Donald Trump has a big debt problem

Sounds an absolute nightmare, can you let us all know how this affects your bank balance and pocket directly, we'd all love to hear from an American citizens point of view

[liddelljohn]

Soon the US$  will  have to devalue  to pay the  increasing interest rate on the national debt that Trump has now accelerated ,,, more people will dump  the $   meaning higher debt rates and more devaluation of the $  then imports to USA will cease due to poor exchange rate and USA exports will be piss cheap  .... maybe thats Trumps plan LOL

[black tabby12345]

17 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

China has 200 billion of US assets which it can sell any time

 

Trump doesn't seem to know 1/4 of the US bond held by other countries: Japan, China, UK, Luxemburg, and Cayman Islands.

 

Whether they keep it or not, solely at their mercy.

US of A is supposedly the world's "strongest" country.

But its financial lifeline is technically in the hands of the people outside.

 

If all of the major holders of the US Treasury, dumped it altogether, the result will be catastrophic.

The worst case scenario hasn't yet to take place.

Only while US is still  "trusted" by the rest of the world.

But the man in the White House today, doing his best to Undermine that Vital Factor.

 

[SiSePuede419]

14 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Your numbers are all wrong.

 

Where did you find them? 

You claim they're wrong without proof of your claim.

 

Where?  ChatGPT.  Not Fox News or whatever right wing propaganda newsletter you subscribe to. 👍

[SiSePuede419]

Anyone ever watch the old TV show Welcome Back Kotter?

 

I realized we have President Vinnie Barbarino right now...

 

Not the guy in the class who always knew the answer OH OH OH 😄

 

 

Vinnie Barbarino, played by John Travolta on Welcome Back, Kotter, was known for his dim-witted but charming persona—often answering questions with confusion or comically wrong answers like “What?” or “I’m so confused.” That was part of his shtick as a "Sweathog."

 

That said, there were occasional moments where Vinnie stumbled into the right answer, either by accident or because the show gave glimpses that he wasn't completely clueless—just more interested in being cool than smart.

 

But as a running gag, he usually didn’t know the correct answer.

 

So while he technically might have gotten a few right, it was rare and usually played for laughs.

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

You claim they're wrong without proof of your claim.

 

Where?  ChatGPT.  Not Fox News or whatever right wing propaganda newsletter you subscribe to. 👍

 

You gave no proof either.

 

Trump $7.8 trillion, with at least half of that a direct extra cost due to Covid.

 

Biden $8.5trillion. Not 6T. 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

Trump doesn't seem to know 1/4 of the US bond held by other countries: Japan, China, UK, Luxemburg, and Cayman Islands.

 

Whether they keep it or not, solely at their mercy.

US of A is supposedly the world's "strongest" country.

But its financial lifeline is technically in the hands of the people outside.

 

If all of the major holders of the US Treasury, dumped it altogether, the result will be catastrophic.

The worst case scenario hasn't yet to take place.

Only while US is still  "trusted" by the rest of the world.

But the man in the White House today, doing his best to Undermine that Vital Factor.

 

 

What is Vital Factor? Some new shampoo?

[3NUMBAS]

Russian ruble now out performing the US dollar

[sqwakvfr]

1. One trillion in interest on the debt annually.  

2. Federal Government on average takes in close to 5 Trillion.  This amount comes from various sources: taxes, penalties and yes custom duties

3.The Federal Government budget has exceeded income for many years. In FY 2024 the budget was almost 7 Trillion

4. Just like a household how does the government pay it's bills: By accumulating debt.  For househoulds a common type of debt to "makes ends meet" have been credit cards.  

 

The Nazis's had a saying :"I'm just a cog in the machine digging it's way to hell".  America will soon achieve fiscal hell.  Because I am an old man I might see the full impact of this fisacl hell before this life ends. 

 

 

[SiSePuede419]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

You gave no proof either.

 

Trump $7.8 trillion, with at least half of that a direct extra cost due to Covid.

 

Biden $8.5trillion. Not 6T. 

No, incorrect.

 

I published the actual numbers from ChatGPT, rounded off. 

 

Your numbers are just plain wrong.

[SiSePuede419]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

"I'm just a cog in the machine digging it's way to hell". 

It doesn't have to be that way.

Bill Clinton had surpluses every year and paid down the debt.

Because he increased taxes on the rich which increased revenue.

It's not rocket science, even the Horndog could do it.

 

We could once again just like the 1950s increase top marginal rates to 90% for ultra high income earners.

 

How did rich people in the 50s avoid paying 90%?

 

Why,I'm glad you asked.

 

They paid themselves reasonable salaries that were only 74 x the median worker's wages, instead of 324.

 

And they plowed most of that money right back into investments in the factory, which is 100% tax deductible.

 

Well, now.  Look at the time.  Your lesson is over.  Dismissed. 👋

[sqwakvfr]

46 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

It doesn't have to be that way.

Bill Clinton had surpluses every year and paid down the debt.

Because he increased taxes on the rich which increased revenue.

It's not rocket science, even the Horndog could do it.

 

We could once again just like the 1950s increase top marginal rates to 90% for ultra high income earners.

 

How did rich people in the 50s avoid paying 90%?

 

Why,I'm glad you asked.

 

They paid themselves reasonable salaries that were only 74 x the median worker's wages, instead of 324.

 

And they plowed most of that money right back into investments in the factory, which is 100% tax deductible.

 

Well, now.  Look at the time.  Your lesson is over.  Dismissed. 👋

How many rich people would be needed to even make it a "drop in the bucket" of 36 Trillion?  If Bezos (allegedly worth of 200+ Billion) gave up his entire net worth then it would not move the needle much. Remember 1 Trillion is 1000 billion.  The net worth of 5 Bezos would knock off 1/36 of the debt.  Also, I never asked for a lesson how things were done in the 1950's because that is probably not relevant in 2025.   Also, if tax rates topped out at 90% do you think the super rich would not devise a way to avoit paying such a rate.  Some people inherited being rich but many are actually smarter then most and this is how they got  rich.