Report IKEA Goes Cashless at Key Thai Stores Amid Mixed Reactions

[Airalee]

16 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

 

Easy - load up a trolley with furniture kits and wheel to the check-out.

Offer cash and when refused, walk away leaving all the kits stacked at the checkout point.

IKEA will soon get the message!

Great idea!  Very “fight club”-esque.

 

I’m also thinking about setting up some kind of cashless system on my phone and then going to the market during peak rush hour to buy a single soda, and subsequently fumble with my phone for 10 minutes at checkout just for fun.

[MalcolmB]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Given cost vs quality - IKEA were an excellent option

That chip board stuff has four levels of quality.

IKEA use the second worst.

You get what you pay for.

It will not last that long in a humid environment.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

I have a smart phone and have no app to pay online. It suits me. If it does not suit a shop i can move on.

The elderly are dying out and younger more flexible people will use their phones and apps

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yeah I love waiting behind someone finding/playing with their phone for 5 minutes to pay for a bar of chocolate. 

 

Especially when they have to tell the cashier their phone number 3 times. 

 

This is one of those 'dumb arguments' against cash-less QR payments...   Its not slower than paying with cash, I find it faster.

 

additionally - when making a QR payment you don't have to give anyone your phone number... 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

Looks like IKEA accept QR and debit/credit cards which means Contactless such as Google Wallet.

 

Good, makes life easy

[John Drake]

5 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

What happens to tourists then? I just got a Bangkok Bank account a couple years ago but I never setup the QR codes/Prompt Pay for whatever it's all called. I'm basically in the same boat as tourists now unless my wife is with me.

 

Honestly I think I would just stop eating KFC and Pizza Co out of spite, which is easy because they're both pretty crap to be honest.

 

Yea, just this minute opened up my Bangkok Bank phone app and got a message they are experiencing "high transaction volume at this moment. Please try again later." Never have that problem with cash in my wallet or even with ATM machines.

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Always the same tired argument. It's always the "cash is king" paranoid / old fashioned brigade who are so unlucky at check out counters!

You never ever, of course, get stuck behind people fumbling in their wallets for their money, then waiting while the cashier counts it a couple of times, then watching and waiting as they ring it up and then count the change three times before handing it back to the customer to then put back in their wallet before finally moving on. That happens to me literally every single time I go shopping anywhere and it takes a minimum of 15 minutes per person, just like your made up person has to tell their phone number three times and take five extraordinary minutes to pay for a bar of chocolate.  And then I have to put that filthy sweaty grubby money away with my nice clean hands.

Personally I much prefer cashless but I do think shops should keep both options. I just wish we had Apple pay and the like here as it is even quicker.

 

Absolutely agree - the excuses often used against digital payment options are extremely myopic and very poor examples of reality. 

 

The only valid argument I have seen against business going cashless is that we may end up without cash completely and I don't think anyone wants to be in that situation - its better to have all options open to us, digital and cash payments.

 

 

[KhunLA]

42 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thats been my point - perhaps you are not there target customer anyway - but why would they put a policy in place that deliberately ostracises 'possible' customers such as yourself ?

 

 

The question would then be asked - IF you 'needed' something from IKEA, would you know how to make a digital payment - in which case you are just being stubborn - as going to an ATM and withdrawing cash, then paying with cash involves more hassle than a QR transfer or debit / credit card payment.

 

 

Agreed - which is why I think its important to keep cash...  for as soon as we don't have cash as an option, I'm sure the cost of Digital payment will increase... 

 

i.e. MasterCard / Visa already charge 3%... PromptPay is currently free... But when cashless is the only option, will a charge be added to that ? at which point we become stuck with minimum payments ?

 

I don't think cash will disappear in our life times, particularly for 'small' daily payments... But for shopping, malls, supermarkets etc... we might see a move to digital only.

 

Realistically - we're already 99% digital payment - the only time I pay with cash now is a flag-fall taxi and the odd 'beer-bar'...

Remember when their selling points were, it's cheaper to operate, so the savings will be passed on to you.   But yet, there's monthly fees for plastic, and usage fees.

 

Not to mention, it simply adds to inflation, if you have to pay 3% and or vendor pays 3%, then to keep their profit margin, up the prices.

 

I'm more concerned about real 'freedoms'; speech or whatever.  

 

"you didn't get vax'd, your account is suspended"  

 

"Your Senator needs a kidney, and you have an extra, your account has been suspended" 

 

"you've been deem a social disturbance, nuisance, your account has been suspended for 2 weeks"

 

Sort of like posting on AN 

[a3tsw]

12 hours ago, watchcat said:

 

Do you have any itdea what they're made of

 

12 hours ago, watchcat said:

 

Do you have any itdea what they're made of

Woodchip & plastic , same as the furniture..

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Yea, just this minute opened up my Bangkok Bank phone app and got a message they are experiencing "high transaction volume at this moment. Please try again later." Never have that problem with cash in my wallet or even with ATM machines.

 

I just encountered exactly the same message when opening my BKK Bank App - it would be an annoyance when trying to pay, but one I'd get over very quickly when paying with the debit card from the same Bangkok Bank account instead... 

(5 Mins later - the App is working normally BTW)

 

 

But, carrying around 20,000 Baht cash all the time is also inconvenient... (or however much we need to cover the cost of digital spending).

 

I have been to plenty of ATM machines that are 'out of order' - but usually there is another nearby, so that cancels that issue, out - just as the issue of the Bangkok Bank App hanging, there is another option (card) that we can move onto very quickly....

 

All payment methods area also imperfect at times and have their inconveniences...   we all have back-up options don't we ?? (debit, credit cards, PromptPay, more than one account etc).

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Remember when their selling points were, it's cheaper to operate, so the savings will be passed on to you.   But yet, there's monthly fees for plastic, and usage fees.

 

IF it costs the stores less not to have cash-payment, then the savings from those efficiencies can be passed on to the customer - though I doubt they will knock any money of every items as a direct result, but it will likely accounted for as part of the bigger picture of being efficient and keeping prices competetive.

 

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

Not to mention, it simply adds to inflation, if you have to pay 3% and or vendor pays 3%, then to keep their profit margin, up the prices.

 

3% is for Master and Debit Cards - QR payment (is currently free).

 

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm more concerned about real 'freedoms'; speech or whatever.  

 

"you didn't get vax'd, your account is suspended"  

 

"Your Senator needs a kidney, and you have an extra, your account has been suspended" 

 

"you've been deem a social disturbance, nuisance, your account has been suspended for 2 weeks"

 

Sort of like posting on AN 

 

Rather silly arguments...  a bit too 1984 for anything outside of the 'off the beaten path' sub-forum.

 

 

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is one of those 'dumb arguments' against cash-less QR payments...   Its not slower than paying with cash, I find it faster.

 

It's not 'dumb'. It depends on who is using the phone. If it's some old granny it can take what seems like decades. And that's just them typing the passcode.

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

additionally - when making a QR payment you don't have to give anyone your phone number... 

 

 

 

I'm aware of that. But they always do because they want their "member points" or whatever. The 2 are not related but it further delays what shoyuld be a simple process. 

 

But you're missing the whole point. If we go cashless you can simply be "turned off" at the push of a button like Trudeau did to the truckers. Plus I don't really want the state having more access to my personal life than they already do. 

[John Drake]

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I just got the same message - it would be an annoyance when trying to pay, but one I'd get over very quickly when paying with the debit card from the same Bangkok Bank account instead... 

 

But, carrying around 20,000 Baht cash all the time is also inconvenient... (or however much we need to cover the cost of digital spending).

 

I have been to plenty of ATM machines that are 'out of order' - but usually there is another nearby, so that cancels that issue, out - just as the issue of the Bangkok Bank App hanging, there is another option (card) that we can move onto very quickly....

 

All payment methods area also imperfect at times and have their inconveniences...   we all have back-up options don't we ?? (debit, credit cards, PromptPay, more than one account etc).

 

 

 

 

I like paying with cash. And I don't do impulse buying. I plan ahead if I'm going shopping for something and usually carry sufficient cash with me. Usually, that means keeping 10,000 or 12,000 in my wallet. In malls I usually have Bangkok Bank or SCB branches available (although the number of SCB branches has declined drastically in my area) if I need a larger amount. At any rate, I always try to have enough cash on me to get by as the circumstances require. For example, during electrical outages the 7 Eleven will take out a clipboard, a cashbox, and continue to do transactions until the power resumes. Cash is just faster and more convenient than any other method for me.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Please think it through and keep the Ikea customer demographic in mind.

The customer base for Ikea is already using digital payments which includes debit and credit cards in addition to telephone apps.

The company most likely  looked at its transactions in detail and realized that  very few if any were paying with cash at the branches where the change will occur.  The dinosaur brigade that you refer to who refuse to use debit cards or payment apps, are not likely to be customers, let alone have the  intelligence or ability to assemble Ikea furniture anyway, so no need to worry about whether or not they agree.  

 

Ikea  sells low cost disposable furniture. The customer base is well documented IKEA's target market primarily consists of the global middle-class group, particularly individuals aged 20-34.

In the USA  The credit and financing company Earnest recently analyzed a dataset of more than 10,000 American shoppers’ spending habits to address a pertinent question: When do consumers ditch Ikea? The answer: at approximately the age of 34.

 

 

 

     I guess I am an outlier; I'm 73 and still shop at IKEA.   In fact, I just placed an order for picture frames and a rug pad.  There's a lot at IKEA that I've outgrown but I still find IKEA a good source for a number of things, especially here in Thailand.  They have a great selection of rugs--I've used the Lohals sisal rug in at least a half dozen condo and house projects.  Well-priced, timeless, durable, and it comes in a number of sizes.  Ditto for a great selection of housewares, kitchen stuff, lighting, and the already mentioned picture frames.

    I give most of the furniture a pass but I like their good selection of big ottomans, most with handy storage.  They're great when used as a coffee table with a big decorative tray on top.   Hard to find similar here in Thailand.  They also do a bed chair that I like--we will likely be ordering one for the exercise room of a new house we are doing.   Although we usually use a credit card, I don't think it's a good idea to eliminate cash as an option.  

[djayz]

As others have said, as customers we should have the choice/right to pay in cash or cashless. Ramming one option down our throats could end up backfiring on companies. 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is one of those 'dumb arguments' against cash-less QR payments...   Its not slower than paying with cash, I find it faster.

 

It's not 'dumb'. It depends on who is using the phone. If it's some old granny it can take what seems like decades. And that's just them typing the passcode.

 

Bias - how many times are you stuck behind 'some old granny' ???...   

 

More often than not, its someone who just flashes their QR code, or scans a QR and make payment faster than dealing with cash...   

 

That might be my bias but I find it much quicker anywhere I've used QR payment... 

ApplePay and contactless payments (tapping the card or phone) are even quicker.

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

additionally - when making a QR payment you don't have to give anyone your phone number... 

 

 

 

I'm aware of that. But they always do because they want their "member points" or whatever. The 2 are not related but it further delays what shoyuld be a simple process. 

 

As you indicated - Giving the phone number is for membership points and completely unrelated to cashless payment...  thus using such an argument to object to cashless payments is flawed.

 

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

But you're missing the whole point. If we go cashless you can simply be "turned off" at the push of a button like Trudeau did to the truckers. Plus I don't really want the state having more access to my personal life than they already do. 

 

I agree...   I believe we should never lose cash, so from the perspective of 'use it or lose it' I would vote to always maintain the option of 'cash payments'  and I think thats a strong enough argument on its own.

 

.... All the other arguments used against digital payment can be so readily picked apart they weaken the argument rather than contribute any additional validity or strength to the points being made (your 'granny argument' being a perfect example).

 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I like paying with cash. And I don't do impulse buying. I plan ahead if I'm going shopping for something and usually carry sufficient cash with me. Usually, that means keeping 10,000 or 12,000 in my wallet. In malls I usually have Bangkok Bank or SCB branches available (although the number of SCB branches has declined drastically in my area) if I need a larger amount. At any rate, I always try to have enough cash on me to get by as the circumstances require. For example, during electrical outages the 7 Eleven will take out a clipboard, a cashbox, and continue to do transactions until the power resumes. Cash is just faster and more convenient than any other method for me.

 

"I like paying with cash" - is a strong enough argument on its own I think...      customers should simply be allowed to pay how they prefer - IMO thats good business practice... 

 

The 'power outage' argument I've heard before...   really, how often is that for it to be a valid argument... 

Besides, if the power is out to a block (i.e. out in 7-11) the power can also be out for a set of ATM's...  Thus that argument has its own flaws...

 

As mentioned above: .... <<  All the other arguments used against digital payment can be so readily picked apart they weaken the argument rather than contribute any additional validity or strength to the points being made (your 'granny argument' being a perfect example) >>

 

Thus: the "I like paying with cash" argument is already strong enough IMO - customer preferences are important and you shouldn't have to justify why you have one preference over another - its your preference and your right without any justification.

 

 

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I like paying with cash. And I don't do impulse buying.

 

Winner winner, chicken dinner. 

 

I can't count how much I've saved when I didn't have the cash in my pocket to pay for something on a whim.  If it's really important, I'll pull out the plastic.  Or go to the ATM and pull out the cash.  But if it's a wild hair thing, I'll look back later and be glad I didn't buy it.

 

[Airalee]

I don’t care how people pay for their stuff.   But….it always seems to be the cashless crowd that denigrates those who prefer cash and not the other way around.  Why is that?

 

I’d love to see the stats of people who pay cash vs cashless and how much debt they carry.

 

I shouldn’t need “an argument” for paying cash.  It’s not even worthy of a conversation let alone a debate.

[Photoguy21]

It is amazing that companies want to go cashless. With all the hacking and scamming going on cashless will only increase it. Before anyone says it wont let me explain. With cashless transactions your data is recorded digitally. Hackers will go after that. I know someone is going to say it will be secured so they cant, well there is no such thing as cant when it comes to hacking. If the USA Federal reserve can be hacked I am pretty sure companies can be.

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Bias - how many times are you stuck behind 'some old granny' ???...   

 

Well, I can never be sure if they have grandchildren, but slow people? quite often. Quite a few people seem to struggle with it. I prefer the system in the UK where you just hold the card up to the machine. Tap and Go. Far superior to the QR code phone app nonsense.  

 

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

More often than not, its someone who just flashes their QR code, or scans a QR and make payment faster than dealing with cash...   

 

Showing your bias again.

 

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I agree...   I believe we should never lose cash, so from the perspective of 'use it or lose it' I would vote to always maintain the option of 'cash payments'  and I think thats a strong enough argument on its own.

 

Which was my main point. I am not against Tap and Go, but cash needs to remain an option. 

 

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

.... All the other arguments used against digital payment can be so readily picked apart they weaken the argument rather than contribute any additional validity or strength to the points being made (your 'granny argument' being a perfect example).

 

 

Strawman. I'm not against digital payments (if they are implemented right). I actually like Monzo cards where you can put a couple of hundred quid on it for a night out and so if you lose it then it's no big deal, unlike losing a bank a credit card. 

 

I am against removing cash as an option.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I don’t care how people pay for their stuff.   But….it always seems to be the cashless crowd that denigrates those who prefer cash and not the other way around.  Why is that?

 

Has anyone thrown any criticism at those who prefer to use cash ?

 

I've criticised the flaws in some of the arguments, but not the choice to prefer cash payments.

 

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I’d love to see the stats of people who pay cash vs cashless and how much debt they carry.

 

When paying with a QR code or debit card it subtracts from the account direct - so cashless payment is no different. 

 

The only form of 'cashless payment' that puts someone in debt could be payment via 'credit-card' - its somewhat different from the 'cashless topic'... 

 

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I shouldn’t need “an argument” for paying cash.  It’s not even worthy of a conversation let alone a debate.

 

100% - any customer should have the freedom of choice - thats just basic customer service IMO.

 

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

It is amazing that companies want to go cashless. With all the hacking and scamming going on cashless will only increase it. Before anyone says it wont let me explain. With cashless transactions your data is recorded digitally. Hackers will go after that. I know someone is going to say it will be secured so they cant, well there is no such thing as cant when it comes to hacking. If the USA Federal reserve can be hacked I am pretty sure companies can be.

 

The 'cash' is going to end up digital anyway... Its not as if the companies store cash in a vault... 

 

 

 

 

[stupidfarang]

With covid, it pushed many people to cashless payment. Payment via card or phone is becoming more common the world over, it is also in the interest of the business as banks charge companies for handling cash when paid by the company into their own account. I recall the bank use to charge me for the deposit slip as well as the cash I deposited into the account.

 

I am very happy to accept cashless payments as I save a lot in fees. Also happy to take cash, best to offer all ways to pay.

[Photoguy21]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The 'cash' is going to end up digital anyway... Its not as if the companies store cash in a vault... 

 

 

 

 

True but why make it easier for hackers?

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Bias - how many times are you stuck behind 'some old granny' ???...   

 

Well, I can never be sure if they have grandchildren, but slow people? quite often. Quite a few people seem to struggle with it. I prefer the system in the UK where you just hold the card up to the machine. Tap and Go. Far superior to the QR code phone app nonsense.  

 

Those same 'characters' who are slow to use their QR code, are also slow to get their purse or wallet out and then dig for cash - I don't think QR or digital payments change that... They are the same 'type of person' who get to their front door, then dig around for their keys !!!!

 

The 'Tap and Go' system exists in Thailand now....    and I agree, its better than the QR system.

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

More often than not, its someone who just flashes their QR code, or scans a QR and make payment faster than dealing with cash...   

 

Showing your bias again.

 

Yes... I did highlight that in my comment when I wrote:

<<That might be my bias but I find it much quicker anywhere I've used QR payment... >>

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I agree...   I believe we should never lose cash, so from the perspective of 'use it or lose it' I would vote to always maintain the option of 'cash payments'  and I think thats a strong enough argument on its own.

 

Which was my main point. I am not against Tap and Go, but cash needs to remain an option. 

 

100% agree - thats been my point all along - no need for weak arguments and flawed anecdote.

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

.... All the other arguments used against digital payment can be so readily picked apart they weaken the argument rather than contribute any additional validity or strength to the points being made (your 'granny argument' being a perfect example).

 

 

Strawman. I'm not against digital payments (if they are implemented right). I actually like Monzo cards where you can put a couple of hundred quid on it for a night out and so if you lose it then it's no big deal, unlike losing a bank a credit card. 

 

I am against removing cash as an option.

 

As am I  - I'm also for using balanced well through out arguments in support or against an option and find many of the anti-digital payment arguments quite broken and flawed thats all, they can be countered so easily that they weaken a point rather than strengthen it.

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The 'cash' is going to end up digital anyway... Its not as if the companies store cash in a vault... 

 

True but why make it easier for hackers?

 

How is you or I paying with a card or QR code making it easier for hackers ??

 

90% (guess) of people are already using cashless payment - so from that perspective, pandoras box is already open.

 

I only see your argument as being valid if we were to go back to 100% cash payment...

 

 

[josephbloggs]

35 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I just encountered exactly the same message when opening my BKK Bank App - it would be an annoyance when trying to pay, but one I'd get over very quickly when paying with the debit card from the same Bangkok Bank account instead... 

(5 Mins later - the App is working normally BTW)

 

 

But, carrying around 20,000 Baht cash all the time is also inconvenient... (or however much we need to cover the cost of digital spending).

 

I have been to plenty of ATM machines that are 'out of order' - but usually there is another nearby, so that cancels that issue, out - just as the issue of the Bangkok Bank App hanging, there is another option (card) that we can move onto very quickly....

 

All payment methods area also imperfect at times and have their inconveniences...   we all have back-up options don't we ?? (debit, credit cards, PromptPay, more than one account etc).

 

 

 

Funnily enough I just popped into Bartels for a sandwich and my Bangkok Bank app wouldn't work - first time ever - and I only carry small motorbike taxi cash. But my Bangkok Bank debit card worked, no drama. And if it didn't one of my credit cards would have worked.

[Airalee]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Has anyone thrown any criticism at those who prefer to use cash ?

Yes.  Read the whole thread.  We are being called dinosaurs.  Told we are incapable of assembling a simple piece of furniture (I prefer quality furniture myself), and expected to have some sort of argument as to why we prefer cash.

 

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

When paying with a QR code or debit card it subtracts from the account direct - so cashless payment is no different. 

 

The only form of 'cashless payment' that puts someone in debt could be payment via 'credit-card' - its somewhat different from the 'cashless topic'... 

 

I’ll let you read up on the studies of those who pay cash vs cashless.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, josephbloggs said:

Funnily enough I just popped into Bartels for a sandwich and my Bangkok Bank app wouldn't work - first time ever - and I only carry small motorbike taxi cash. But my Bangkok Bank debit card worked, no drama. And if it didn't one of my credit cards would have worked.

 

I think the Bangkok Bank App itself is one of the worst with regards to reliability... 

 

I've found that at midnight it often goes offline or payment won't get processed - I've had bar staff tell me they often encounter this issue with Bangok Bank... 

 

Kasikorn on the other account has been seamless - so I use that all the time now.

 

But, just like you, I have the Bank card and a credit card so its not as if there is no backup - so no drama.