Why Zelensky Won’t Bargain Away Crimea — No Matter the Pressure

[frank83628]

13 minutes ago, Tug said:

Ok frank when have I called my country’s patriots fascist?if they are that they aren’t patriots because they would be betraying every thing the states stands for ergo they aren’t patriots hope that helps.

Trump supporters are America first patriots,  you call them fascists

[NativeBob]

every day of "military actions" at UA bring not only corpses but hefty rewards to those who vouch against peace talks. 

[beautifulthailand99]

St Javelin used to boast about the Crimea Beach Party - join us !

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

The status of Crimea has changed several times over the past few centuries. Here's a brief overview:

Timeline of Russian Control over Crimea:

1. 1783–1954:
   Crimea was annexed by the Russian Empire in 1783 under Catherine the Great and remained part of Russia until 1954.
   ➤ Total: 171 years

2. 1954–1991:
   Crimea was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (a part of the USSR) by Nikita Khrushchev. Although still under Soviet control, it was administratively part of Ukraine.

3. 1991–2014:
   After the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Crimea became part of independent Ukraine.

4. Since 2014:
   Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014, a move not recognized by Ukraine or most of the international community. However, Russia considers it part of its territory.
   ➤ As of 2025, that's 11 years

---

Total Time Under Russian Control:

• 1783–1954: 171 years (Imperial Russia + USSR)

• 2014–2025: 11 years (Modern Russia)

Grand Total: 182 years, if you count both periods together under Russian control.

Would you like a visual timeline of Crimea’s history?

[connda]

4 hours ago, CRUNCHER said:

Both Russia and US signed the 1994 Budapest agreement guaranteeing Ukraine's  boarders as the existed at that time.  This included Crimea. History before that is irrelevant.

That Putin fails to honour his international obligations is not surprising; he is pure evil.

One would have hoped that the US had more integrity, but Trump is dragging US down into the gutter along with Putin. 

All Americans should hang their heads in shame at what their country is becoming. US's word now means nothing.

Blah blah blah.  Any treaty the US signs isn't worth the paper it's printed on.  "That Putin fails to honour his international obligations is not surprising; he is pure evil."  Yada yada yada...

There's the pot calling the kettle "black."  

Personally I don't care.  Let the West go to war with all those whom they now refer to as "aggressors" and "enemies," and the overused "Axis of Evil!"  I've got a pretty good idea how it all ends.  I seriously doubt I'll survive to the end of the next World War.  So what.  I'll leave the hating and fighting for the rest of you who all seem to have a dog in the fight.  Go for it! 

[connda]

7 hours ago, connda said:

Good for him.  Stick to your guns ol' buddy (Oh wait, Zee doesn't have a gun and is never in harms way at the front). Ok - keep press ganging volunteering Ukrainian men and sending the cannon fodder brave, highly trained soldiers to the front.  Russia is down to launching washing machine and dryers full of TNT as they have run out of missiles, the Ruble is Rubble, Russia Is In Tatters, and the reality on the ground is that the Russian "cockroaches" (I believe that is how you refer to Russians) are running back to Moscow as Ukie troop retake Crimea and push "The Invaders" back to the Russian border.  The US just needs to send $500 billion more ($50 billion to a special offshore account in the Bahamas) and you'll have Ivan running home to momma.
"The more money you send to me, the more I be richer, and of course war turn out good for Trump and JD too.  War good for Ukraine, send more money and war get better! We win for sure.  Russia orcs don't have snowball chance in bonfire of burning Benjamins ." <unrolls a $100 dollar bill and sniffs>

In other news, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters, "...that things are just fine. No problems.  President Trump is great man who understands the root cause of the conflict.  We see peace sooner...or later.  No hurry  Future plans?  Off to India and Pakistan to see if we can talk them out of nuking each other and irradiating Southeast Asia which is downwind."

 

I ❤️ these new "Thumb's Down Hate Stickers!"  Nice touch!  Personally I'll forgo their use.

[Will B Good]

11 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Crimea was handed to the Russians under Obama. Now Zelensky wants it back.

Was Crimea “Handed Over”?

No. It wasn’t handed over — it was taken by Russia. Obama didn’t approve, consent, or negotiate the transfer.

[NativeBob]

30 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Would you like a visual timeline of Crimea’s history?

please, in color and black/white - some are color blind )

 

10 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

No. It wasn’t handed over — it was taken by Russia.

Yep. Reuters had life feed from Crimea. non-stop from the Day 1 until referendum. "Polite Green Men".  Zero resistance. #ROFL

[Cryingdick]

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It is an internationally accepted concept since World War II that any land amassed over the course of a war does not legally belong to the victor. The only true exception of this might be Israel which illegally seized a significant amount of land.

 

. 

Tell that to China if/when they invade Taiwan. It is an internationally accepted concept for western nations the rest of the world not so much.

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

Was Crimea “Handed Over”?

No. It wasn’t handed over — it was taken by Russia. Obama didn’t approve, consent, or negotiate the transfer.

Figuratively speaking (handed over). There was no military resistance to this annexation. It was total capitulation. 

[beautifulthailand99]

16 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Tell that to China if/when they invade Taiwan. It is an internationally accepted concept for western nations the rest of the world not so much.

They will just be taking back sovereign territory - stay in your lanes superpowers. US gets Canada and Greenland , Russia - Ukraine , China- Taiwan them's the new rules for the newish century. Sorry for any misunderstandings.

 

[beautifulthailand99]

 

[Rob Browder]

14 hours ago, Social Media said:

The suggestion that the U.S. might legitimize Russia’s landgrab is more than just an affront to Ukrainian sovereignty; it’s a direct challenge to the very idea of international law.

That went out the window when NATO broke up / disregarded the "sovereign borders" of Yugoslavia.  And never mind the CIA-backed Coup which started this civil-war  in 2014.  Nuland admitted they spent Billions on this "project" - supporting the Banderista faction. 

 

15 hours ago, Social Media said:

For Zelensky, who has repeatedly vowed to uphold the law of his nation, relinquishing Crimea would not only be unconstitutional — it would be unthinkable.

 

LOL!!!  After Ukraine killed political opponents, and bragged about it?  As they round-up people in the streets, to throw into certain-death, in an unwinnable war, which only happened because Ukraine REFUSED every off-ramp, including Minsk? 

 

To his credit, Zelensky did make a half-hearted effort with Minsk at first, but the Banderistas basically told him to stick it (on video), and refused to stop shelling civilians in Donbass. The death toll from this was over 14K, by the time Russia got involved.

 

The co-signatories did not demand Ukraine follow the treaty they had signed (also passed by the National Security Counsel), and the USA continued supplying "aid," to spite Ukraine ignoring the treaty (both Obama and Trump).

 

As to Trump's angle - in his 1st Term, he escalated that ONGOING war - taking it even further than Obama - supplying lethal-aid, and trashing long-standing arms-control agreements with Russia, which made Ukraine even more of a threat to Russian national-security.  So, pretending Russia entering the conflict, as a major Ukraine offensive was beginning, was "only because of Biden," is silly. 

[Will B Good]

6 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

That went out the window when NATO broke up / disregarded the "sovereign borders" of Yugoslavia.  And never mind the CIA-backed Coup which started this civil-war  in 2014.  Nuland admitted they spent Billions on this "project" - supporting the Banderista faction. 

 

 

LOL!!!  After Ukraine killed political opponents, and bragged about it?  As they round-up people in the streets, to throw into certain-death, in an unwinnable war, which only happened because Ukraine REFUSED every off-ramp, including Minsk? 

 

To his credit, Zelensky did make a half-hearted effort with Minsk at first, but the Banderistas basically told him to stick it (on video), and refused to stop shelling civilians in Donbass. The death toll from this was over 14K, by the time Russia got involved.

 

The co-signatories did not demand Ukraine follow the treaty they had signed (also passed by the National Security Counsel), and the USA continued supplying "aid," to spite Ukraine ignoring the treaty (both Obama and Trump).

 

As to Trump's angle - in his 1st Term, he escalated that ONGOING war - taking it even further than Obama - supplying lethal-aid, and trashing long-standing arms-control agreements with Russia, which made Ukraine even more of a threat to Russian national-security.  So, pretending Russia entering the conflict, as a major Ukraine offensive was beginning, was "only because of Biden," is silly. 

 

 

What Did Nuland Actually Say?

 

In 2013, Victoria Nuland gave a talk at the National Press Club in Washington where she mentioned:

 

“Since Ukraine’s independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions. We’ve invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals.”

[Rob Browder]

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It is an internationally accepted concept since World War II that any land amassed over the course of a war does not legally belong to the victor. The only true exception of this might be Israel which illegally seized a significant amount of land.

See Yugoslavia - broken-up by NATO.  Also all the CIA and MI6 Coups, which take an entire country. 

 

Israel didn't ONLY take land - still expanding now - but also ethnically-cleanses the land, and puts the former-occupants of stolen-land in concentration-camp zones - then allows their "settlers" to brutalize and murder in those areas - stealing more land - backed by their army.  The "West" supports this; the hypocrisy is staggering.

 

By contrast, Russia does not practice ethnic-discrimination, and are actively fighting a "Banderista" regime which is founded on ethnic-discrimination.  See Zelensky's comments recently about "hating all Russians" - and that most certainly includes the large % of the Ukrainian population who are ethnically-Russian.

[Rob Browder]

5 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

What Did Nuland Actually Say?

 

In 2013, Victoria Nuland gave a talk at the National Press Club in Washington where she mentioned:

 

“Since Ukraine’s independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions. We’ve invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals.”

Yes - and if you think "build democratic skills" somehow matches-up with backing a race-based, ethnic-Russian hating Banderista regime, I've got a bridge to sell you.  

 

They literally destroyed a democracy with a coup.  She was caught on audio-intercept discussing who the USA was going to INSTALL in the "new govt" - and then REJECTED the early-election option, post-coup. 

 

This is hardly the first case of the US State Dept using Orwellian Doublespeak.  See the "Freedom Fighter" right-wing death squads in Central and South America.