Russia Dismisses Trump’s Ukraine Peace Plan Offers 3 Day Ceasefire

[Cameroni]

2 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

then you'll believe that Russia gets to determine how other sovereign nations conduct themselves, and has the right to invade anytime the czar is displeased.

 

This is not a "belief". 

 

This is the reality of the world. Just as the USA gets to determine how other sovereign nations conduct themselves, witness Panama being invaded when they sold secrets to Cuba, if those sovereign nations are in the US sphere of influence, so does Russia get to determine how other sovereign nations conduct themselves, if they are in the Russian sphere of inluence.

 

And Ukraine conducted herself abominably, jumped into bed with hansum man America and then did a gangbang with Europe on top, when its boyfriend Russia was paying her energy bills. Cheating is an ugly betrayal, and Ukraine now pays the price.

[dinsdale]

16 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Putin asked for 3 days ceasefire so he can have his annual military parade in Red Square. He is never genuine  with any peace plan unless he gets 25% of Ukraine land, Ukraine de-militarized and no Nato membership.

True. Easter ceasefire which didn't really happen was for troop rotation and ammo restocking and yes, the 3 days is for the May Day parade. You are also correct that he wants the land taken since 2022 plus Crimea and the de-militarization of Ukraine and add elections to this. As for NATO membership that's pretty much gone as it is. Joining the EU is, however, is an open option. As for security guarantees that's more on the part of Ukraine wanting this and this is not an easy thing to do. Who will do the securing that's acceptable to both sides. As for Europe leading negotiations this won't happen.

p.s. not sure why your full quote wasn't quoted. I didn't edit out your last two points.

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Yes that worked very well with the Minsk I and Minsk II agreements, lol.

 

Total failure.

Russia which you support broke the ceasefire agreements in which they were signatories. Not total failure but total dishonesty of Putin. THis time, he is doing his tap on Trump to arm wristing on Ukraine. Forget USA, Europe must do it on their own. 

[Cameroni]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Russia which you support broke the ceasefire agreements in which they were signatories. Not total failure but total dishonesty of Putin. THis time, he is doing his tap on Trump to arm wristing on Ukraine. Forget USA, Europe must do it on their own. 

 

No, that's misinformation. Actually it was Ukraine that broke those agreements.

 

Why would Russia keep agreements which Ukraine breaks?

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, that's misinformation. Actually it was Ukraine that broke those agreements.

 

Why would Russia keep agreements which Ukraine breaks?

Wow that's another level of Putin a-kissing. The collapse of Minsk agreement is well documented and can be viewed in public domain that in early January 2015, Russia sent another large batch of its regulars, which together with separatist forces of DPR and LPR began a new offensive on UKraine and broke the agreement.  

[Cameroni]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Wow that's another level of Putin a-kissing. The collapse of Minsk agreement is well documented and can be viewed in public domain that in early January 2015, Russia sent another large batch of its regulars, which together with separatist forces of DPR and LPR began a new offensive on UKraine and broke the agreement.  

 

Obviously you are very poorly informed. The Ukrainians themselves have admitted that they breached the Minsk agreements.

 

Ukraine officially admitted violating the Minsk Agreements  by using a Turkish-made Bayraktar drone in the east of the country, for instance.

 

In September 2014, Kiev signed a memorandum envisaging a straightforward ban on flights of combat aviation and foreign unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). But Ukrainian Armed Forces Commander Valery] Zaluzhny reported flights and even combat use of UAVs along the line of contact. 

 

The General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces confirmed  that the Ukrainian military had used the Turkish-made Bayraktar UAV. 

 

In accordance with additional ceasefire control measures, in effect since July 27, 2020, the sides are prohibited from using unmanned aerial vehicles in the vicinity of the line of contact. Only the Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Ukraine (OSCE) is allowed to use drones for its monitoring activities.

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

True. Easter ceasefire which didn't really happen was for troop rotation and ammo restocking and yes, the 3 days is for the May Day parade. You are also correct that he wants the land taken since 2022 plus Crimea and the de-militarization of Ukraine and add elections to this. As for NATO membership that's pretty much gone as it is. Joining the EU is, however, is an open option. As for security guarantees that's more on the part of Ukraine wanting this and this is not an easy thing to do. Who will do the securing that's acceptable to both sides. As for Europe leading negotiations this won't happen.

p.s. not sure why your full quote wasn't quoted. I didn't edit out your last two points.

Europe's ability to replace the US is limited but is evolving. France, UK and EU are driving alternative peace frameworks. US military and diplomatic weight are big factors. At the moment, Europe's proposal risk being undermined by Russia's intransigence and Trump's transactional approach. I believe at the end of the day, success will hinged in Europe manintaining unity, accelerate defense spending and reduce dependency on Washington. I also believe that Putin's hold on Russia in this war has a limited time span. Sooner than later he will be "sidelined" by events and a genuine peace plan with Europe will happen. Just my humble opinion. 

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Obviously you are very poorly informed. The Ukrainians themselves have admitted that they breached the Minsk agreements.

 

Ukraine officially admitted violating the Minsk Agreements  by using a Turkish-made Bayraktar drone in the east of the country, for instance.

 

In September 2014, Kiev signed a memorandum envisaging a straightforward ban on flights of combat aviation and foreign unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). But Ukrainian Armed Forces Commander Valery] Zaluzhny reported flights and even combat use of UAVs along the line of contact. 

 

The General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces confirmed  that the Ukrainian military had used the Turkish-made Bayraktar UAV. 

 

In accordance with additional ceasefire control measures, in effect since July 27, 2020, the sides are prohibited from using unmanned aerial vehicles in the vicinity of the line of contact. Only the Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Ukraine (OSCE) is allowed to use drones for its monitoring activities.

I see you cut and paste from TASS news agency. You do know TASS is the top Russia news media. Anything else? 

[frank83628]

He has the land already, Z man suddenly talking about Crimea knowing its a nonstarter and will keepnthe war going, I wonder whonis pulling the strings now that the US isnt

[Cameroni]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I see you cut and paste from TASS news agency. You do know TASS is the top Russia news media. Anything else? 

 

Will an admission by the President of Ukraine suffice?

 

Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements.

 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky admitted on Thursday that he had previously told German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron that the Minsk agreements were "impossible", and he did not plan on implementing them.

 

The Ukrainian president said Kiev used the agreement only for the exchange of prisoners of war.

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin said weeks later that Russia was hoping for peace agreements back when it signed the Minsk agreements in 2014, but it was fooled.

"We all endured, endured, endured and hoped for some kind of peace agreement, but now it turns out that we were simply fooled," Putin told reporters.

"After the revelations of [ex-German Chancellor Angela] Merkel, [ex-Ukrainian President Petro] Poroshenko, and other politicians about the true goals of the Minsk agreements, it became obvious to everyone that Russia was not the source of the conflict in Ukraine," Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu also said.

 

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/zelensky-admits-he-never-intended-to-implement-minsk-agreeme

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

He has the land already, Z man suddenly talking about Crimea knowing its a nonstarter and will keepnthe war going, I wonder whonis pulling the strings now that the US isnt

Land seized and not recognized by US and most countries. UN General Assembly affirmed nonrecognition of annexed Crimea. Why non starter? Crimea is part of Ukraine not Russia. He is taking back what is theirs. It's their patriotic duty and should be applauded. Why you keep siding the thief and his side-kick.

[Cameroni]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Crimea is part of Ukraine not Russia. He is taking back what is theirs. It's their patriotic duty and should be applauded. Why you keep siding the thief and his side-kick.

 

Ludicrous nonsense, the Crimea was given to Ukraine by Russia. Clearly it belongs to Russia. Zelensky's patriotic duty is to surrender to stop the pointless slaughter of his people.

[frank83628]

8 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Land seized and not recognized by US and most countries. UN General Assembly affirmed nonrecognition of annexed Crimea. Why non starter? Crimea is part of Ukraine not Russia. He is taking back what is theirs. It's their patriotic duty and should be applauded. Why you keep siding the thief and his side-kick.

are you a supporter of Israel like many here? Its quite hypocritical to say i am supporting a thief

Crimeans voted to join Russia, the land region Putin has now in the East is not being given back, Z man had a choice to negotiate in the beginning, he didn't, tough luck for him, will Israel give back the Golan?

[rabas]

50 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

3 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

then you'll believe that Russia gets to determine how other sovereign nations conduct themselves, and has the right to invade anytime the czar is displeased.

This is not a "belief". 

 

This is the reality of the world. Just as the USA gets to determine how other sovereign nations conduct themselves, witness Panama being invaded when they sold secrets to Cuba, if those sovereign nations are in the US sphere of influence, so does Russia get to determine how other sovereign nations conduct themselves, if they are in the Russian sphere of inluence.

 

And Ukraine conducted herself abominably, jumped into bed with hansum man America and then did a gangbang with Europe on top, when its boyfriend Russia was paying her energy bills. Cheating is an ugly betrayal, and Ukraine now pays the price.

 

No. This is neither belief nor reality. It is a choice.

 

One the West and free world must make. History, especially that of Russia and Vladimir Putin, has recorded the peril of allowing Putin to drag the world back to the gory glory days of slaughtering cultures and territorial conquest.  Not viable with nukes.

 

How does the West have the ability to chose? Because of NATO's 50 trillion GDP combined  with other freedom loving  countries. Putin is peanuts.

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

are you a supporter of Israel like many here? Its quite hypocritical to say i am supporting a thief

Crimeans voted to join Russia, the land region Putin has now in the East is not being given back, Z man had a choice to negotiate in the beginning, he didn't, tough luck for him, will Israel give back the Golan?

THe referendum was illegal and not recognized by most countries and UN Security Council. So basically you lied to say Crimeans voted to join Russia. 

[rabas]

15 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

are you a supporter of Israel like many here? Its quite hypocritical to say i am supporting a thief

Crimeans voted to join Russia, the land region Putin has now in the East is not being given back, Z man had a choice to negotiate in the beginning, he didn't, tough luck for him, will Israel give back the Golan?

 

You choice of the words 'given back' says it all.

[Cameroni]

57 minutes ago, rabas said:

This is neither belief nor reality. It is a choice.

 

No.

 

It is a not a choice for NATO to make. Nor the West. Nor the "free world". Russia is the strongest nation in that region, due its size and military it will in real life have the power to dictate how nations around it conduct themselves. As Ukraine is learning now.

 

Don't provide fantasies to the world you can't fulfill.

 

You claim "Putin is peanuts". And yet all of Europe and the USA are too afraid to put troops on the ground. Because "Putin is peanuts"? Don't  talk nonsense. It's because both Europe and the US are afraid and very careful not to provoke Russia into a nuclear war that can destroy this planet. Thankfully the leaders of European countries and the US appear to have more sense than you have.

 

Sadly, Ukraine too, like you, thought it was a "choice". How did that work out for them?

[frank83628]

53 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

THe referendum was illegal and not recognized by most countries and UN Security Council. So basically you lied to say Crimeans voted to join Russia. 

No, I didn't lie, they vote, just because you don't agree with it,doesn'tran it didn't happen!

I doubt those that voted care what you or anyone else think either. They became Russian and have Russia security. 

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

 

No. This is neither belief nor reality. It is a choice.

 

One the West and free world must make. History, especially that of Russia and Vladimir Putin, has recorded the peril of allowing Putin to drag the world back to the gory glory days of slaughtering cultures and territorial conquest.  Not viable with nukes.

 

How does the West have the ability to chose? Because of NATO's 50 trillion GDP combined  with other freedom loving  countries. Putin is peanuts.

Oh shut up, the USA are the biggest terroists and warmongers on the planet, they have wages wars, orchestrated coups & assassinations and régime change throughout the entire world since WW2

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

No, I didn't lie, they vote, just because you don't agree with it,doesn'tran it didn't happen!

I doubt those that voted care what you or anyone else think either. They became Russian and have Russia security. 

I will made this simple for you to understand. The referendum was illegal. The voting has no meaning when the referendum was illegal. You seem to struggle to comprehend simple English. 

[rough diamond]

2 hours ago, frank83628 said:

I wonder whonis pulling the strings now that the US isnt

I wonder who is pulling your strings?

[frank83628]

8 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

I wonder who is pulling your strings?

Ahh, yes.... the clichéd 'putins puppet' or Kremlin this, Kremlin that  blah blah, change the record

Its called a difference of opinion!

[frank83628]

50 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I will made this simple for you to understand. The referendum was illegal. The voting has no meaning when the referendum was illegal. You seem to struggle to comprehend simple English. 

I will make it clear to you.... The people of Crimea do not care what you or the 'west' think

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

 

 Lol. Want want want. 

I would give Lavrov and Putin the middle finger for their stupid proposal, Trump has been played like a fool , he didn't believe the warning from Macron and Zelensky not to trust Putin

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, dinsdale said:

No NATO expansion no war?

wrong... Putin would have found another reason, his plan was and still is the re-establishment of the USSR cold war stile

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, FlorC said:

It was under Obama in 2014 that the west staged a coup.

You know Sorros and Nuland.

Just one of the many links :

Obama and Soros—Nazis in Ukraine 2014—U.S. in 2017? (schillerinstitute.com)

 

Putin had no choice.

Now he holds all the cards , like Trump would say.

people always have a choice, "to do or not to do" like the guy in the UK said to be or not to be, that's a choice

[Hakuna Matata]

23 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

I would give Lavrov and Putin the middle finger for their stupid proposal

 

 

[BLMFem]

6 hours ago, hotsun said:

The POTUS is responsible for everything that happens in the world

POTUS isn't responsible for your lame posts blaming Biden for Russia's invasion. That's all on you, Sunny.

[BLMFem]

5 hours ago, FlorC said:

It was under Obama in 2014 that the west staged a coup.

You know Sorros and Nuland.

Just one of the many links :

Obama and Soros—Nazis in Ukraine 2014—U.S. in 2017? (schillerinstitute.com)

 

Putin had no choice.

Now he holds all the cards , like Trump would say.

 

[BLMFem]

5 hours ago, frank83628 said:

You will never accept the your USA pushed this war.

Bury you head in the sand and just call everyone Putin puppet

Speaking for myself I don't call everyone a Putin puppet, but I'm happy to label you one.