Russia Dismisses Trump’s Ukraine Peace Plan Offers 3 Day Ceasefire

[rough diamond]

36 minutes ago, johng said:

So after Putin dies who do you think will take over ?   someone sympathetic to Ukraine willing to give back Crimea and the eastern territories  pay for reconstruction , hand over the "child abductors" to  the ICC   and agree that Ukraine  joins NATO !!!   nope  not gonna happen.

How do you know that there may not be another perestroika?

[rough diamond]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

One thing I've not seen so far in any of your posts is at least Trump is trying.

Of course not as all Trump is doing is to do as much damage to the world's economy to suit his agenda, even though he doesn't understand that agenda!

[Eric Loh]

28 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Fact is Putin saw it as a threat and said so. The EU and the US supported NATO expansion. Yes, the EU reduced it's NATO spending but still the US was and still is the backbone of NATO. Trump wants this to change.

Question is did the EU and the US want Russia to invade Ukraine? Was NATO expansion used a trigger/bait to get Putin to invade? Has Ukraine just been a pawn in a much larger scenario? I have posited these questions on here before but without intelligent replies. Certainly get plenty of the unintelligent/anonymised negative emojis from those without the balls or intelligence to dispute these assertions and which I expect again with this post.

I'm genuinely interested to see any comments to argue Ukraine hasn't been used as a pawn in a proxy war against Russia.

IMO, the only way to prevent another Russia invasion is deterrent. Match Russia conventional military might. It will mean Ukraine will have to improve its military capacity and Nato membership. Nato countries will also have to increase their military strengths without the need to depend on USA. Appeasement with Russia will be the worst possible policy for both UKraine and Russia. 

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

Of course not as all Trump is doing is to do as much damage to the world's economy to suit his agenda, even though he doesn't understand that agenda!

A pitiful deflection from the topic which is all I'd expect from you. Why not address the point I made that at least Trump is trying compared to sleepy Joe who was not medically fit to be POTUS and did nothing. Looking forward to your next intellectually stunted reply.

[zmisha]

Z guys are waiting for unconditional surrender of the United States and all its vassals in NATO. But tovarisch Trump constantly creates inappropriate performances and stalls for time.

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

IMO, the only way to prevent another Russia invasion is deterrent. Match Russia conventional military might. It will mean Ukraine will have to improve its military capacity and Nato membership. Nato countries will also have to increase their military strengths without the need to depend on USA. Appeasement with Russia will be the worst possible policy for both UKraine and Russia. 

Again Ukraine is not going to be part of NATO and you want is to add more gunpowder to the powder keg by increasing Ukraine's military strengths. This isn't going to happen either after a ceasefire is hopefully agreed to by all parties. As sad as it is Ukraine is going to become a buffer zone. What the future holds neither you or I can tell.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Again Ukraine is not going to be part of NATO and you want is to add more gunpowder to the powder keg by increasing Ukraine's military strengths. This isn't going to happen either after a ceasefire is hopefully agreed to by all parties. As sad as it is Ukraine is going to become a buffer zone. What the future holds neither you or I can tell.

You act like you know, but you actually don't. 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, zmisha said:

Z guys are waiting for unconditional surrender of the United States and all its vassals in NATO. But tovarisch Trump constantly creates inappropriate performances and stalls for time.

Thanks for the new to me Russkie word.

Makes me want to rub the belly of a gopnik. 

[candide]

54 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Fact is Putin saw it as a threat and said so. The EU and the US supported NATO expansion. Yes, the EU reduced it's NATO spending but still the US was and still is the backbone of NATO. Trump wants this to change.

Question is did the EU and the US want Russia to invade Ukraine? Was NATO expansion used a trigger/bait to get Putin to invade? Has Ukraine just been a pawn in a much larger scenario? I have posited these questions on here before but without intelligent replies. Certainly get plenty of the unintelligent/anonymised negative emojis from those without the balls or intelligence to dispute these assertions and which I expect again with this post.

I'm genuinely interested to see any comments to argue Ukraine hasn't been used as a pawn in a proxy war against Russia.

The reason you did not get any intelligent reply is likely that this conspiracy theory is irrealistic.

 

Starting with the fact that, as I outlined in  my post, European countries were completely unprepared to support Ukraine, as evidenced by the improvisation that characterised their initial response. No strategic stock of weapons, no sufficient weapon production capacity, and no established doctrine on how to support Ukraine. Not to mention the profitable economic ties with Russia.

 

I talk about "European countries", because the EU has no defense prerogative and is not the institution in which military plans were discussed. The relevant institution is NATO.

 

As to the U.S., it had the capacity to support Ukraine, but no clear doctrine about Ukraine, and also improvised. Actually, it was rather focused on Asia rather than Russia, since Obama's tenure. It was the neocons under Bush Jr. who were still focused on Russia.

[rough diamond]

10 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

A pitiful deflection from the topic which is all I'd expect from you. Why not address the point I made that at least Trump is trying compared to sleepy Joe who was not medically fit to be POTUS and did nothing. Looking forward to your next intellectually stunted reply.

It is NOT a deflection. Pitiful or otherwise!

Read what you wrote and what I replied to! 

All you said was "at least Trump is trying".

You did not say what you thought he was trying.

 PS; Insulting posters is not IMO the recommended way to build rapport!

[rough diamond]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You act like you know, but you actually don't. 

I think the description is a "know-all" but who actually knows nothing in practice!

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, rough diamond said:

It is NOT a deflection. Pitiful or otherwise!

Read what you wrote and what I replied to! 

All you said was "at least Trump is trying".

You did not say what you thought he was trying.

 PS; Insulting posters is not IMO the recommended way to build rapport!

Yeah, Trump is trying alright. Trying to force Ukraine to surrender to his imaginary friend war criminal dictator Putin. Biden was too weak a tea to help Ukraine enough, but compared to traitor Trump he was golden.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

I think the description is a "know-all" but who actually knows nothing in practice!

Sounds like Trump.

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Again Ukraine is not going to be part of NATO and you want is to add more gunpowder to the powder keg by increasing Ukraine's military strengths. This isn't going to happen either after a ceasefire is hopefully agreed to by all parties. As sad as it is Ukraine is going to become a buffer zone. What the future holds neither you or I can tell.

UKraine will not become Russia's buffer zone. A Ruusian proposal for buffer zone in Kharkiv region but even that is rejected by Ukraine. The idea of a buffer zone is seen as an attempt by Russia to bide their time for another escalation. Today Ukraine is not the same as 3 years ago at the start of the Russian invasion. Ukraine now has the second largest military in Europe and has narrow the gap with Russia through asymmetric warfare likje drones and robotics. They can continue to resist and even conduct cross border operations. They can do a lot more damage to Russia infrastructures if they are pushed to the brim. Ukraine will be around much longer than Putin. 

[BLMFem]

2 hours ago, frank83628 said:

Around 90% voted to join, speaks for itself

Yes, and Putin won the "election" in Russia, handily beating those who hadn't flown out windows or in jail.

C'mon Dmitry, seriously?

[dinsdale]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You act like you know, but you actually don't. 

Let's see who's right. Basically if the US says no then it's no. NATO as it is exists as it is only because of the US. To think otherwise would be deluded.

[BLMFem]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

Yeh right! Get back to us when this happens. Membership of the EU? Possibly. NATO membership? As I said not happening. Why don't you post something (sourced) that supports your statement. I along with others I'm sure would be interested to see your comment or is it just another one to add to your long list of baseless comments. Putin needs to die and the sooner the better well maybe some would say so does Zelensky and the sooner the better so there can be elections. Both ridiculous statements when you think logically which from your past posts seems to be beyond your grasp.  

You said it's not happening (your opinion) and I said it's happening (my opinion). What about this confuses you?

[BLMFem]

38 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

IMO, the only way to prevent another Russia invasion is deterrent. Match Russia conventional military might. It will mean Ukraine will have to improve its military capacity and Nato membership. Nato countries will also have to increase their military strengths without the need to depend on USA. Appeasement with Russia will be the worst possible policy for both UKraine and Russia. 

Correct. Russia must be defeated militarily, ideologically, economically and politically. Only then can it be rebuilt into a reliable strategic partner.

[frank83628]

2 hours ago, candide said:

Putin knows Trump is weak and will do nothing.

 

Z should be careful. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump would start blaming him again

What can trump do exactly? Russia isn't Libya, Syria, Iraq, they are a nuclear super power....what do you think the reuslts would be?

The only thing is for Zman to accept the loss, and never trust the US or NATO again, but he's indebted Ukraine for life now. Stupid puppet.

[dinsdale]

18 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

It is NOT a deflection. Pitiful or otherwise!

Read what you wrote and what I replied to! 

All you said was "at least Trump is trying".

You did not say what you thought he was trying.

 PS; Insulting posters is not IMO the recommended way to build rapport!

This has to be one of your more ridiculous posts. Let's see. Trying to stop the war? Could that be the context in a thread about the war in Ukraine? Sorry but your stupidity seems to be without bounds. As for building rapport you must be joking. I feel absolutely no need to do this on here. 

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Correct. Russia must be defeated militarily, ideologically, economically and politically. Only then can it be rebuilt into a reliable strategic partner.

And who is going to do this? Again another ridiculous comment. Change in Russia will only come from within. Defeat Russia militarily? This is truly just a troll comment or a comment from someone with very little intellect.

[Mike_Hunt]

12 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Correct. Russia must be defeated militarily, ideologically, economically and politically. Only then can it be rebuilt into a reliable strategic partner.

Are you willing to die for this cause? 

[Mike_Hunt]

36 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, Trump is trying alright. Trying to force Ukraine to surrender to his imaginary friend war criminal dictator Putin. Biden was too weak a tea to help Ukraine enough, but compared to traitor Trump he was golden.

Was. Biden helping Ukraine or just trying to degrade Russia's military? 

[Mike_Hunt]

42 minutes ago, candide said:

 

 

I talk about "European countries", because the EU has no defense prerogative and is not the institution in which military plans were discussed. The relevant institution is NATO.

 

As to the U.S., it had the capacity to support Ukraine, but no clear doctrine about Ukraine, and also improvised. Actually, it was rather focused on Asia rather than Russia, since Obama's tenure. It was the neocons under Bush Jr. who were still focused on Russia.

 

Yea, this where the lazy Europeans should have stepped up.   But, they dropped the ball. 

[BLMFem]

3 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Are you willing to die for this cause? 

If you're asking if I'm willing to take up arms if my country calls upon me to do so then hell, yes.

[Mike_Hunt]

59 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

IMO, the only way to prevent another Russia invasion is deterrent. Match Russia conventional military might. It will mean Ukraine will have to improve its military capacity and Nato membership. Nato countries will also have to increase their military strengths without the need to depend on USA. Appeasement with Russia will be the worst possible policy for both UKraine and Russia. 

 

Europe is lazy.   They don't like hard work. 

[BLMFem]

2 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Was. Biden helping Ukraine or just trying to degrade Russia's military? 

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I thought that much was obvious.

[Mike_Hunt]

1 minute ago, BLMFem said:

If you're asking if I'm willing to take up arms if my country calls upon me to do so then hell, yes.

 

Are you willing to die for a war in a far away land? 

[Mike_Hunt]

1 minute ago, BLMFem said:

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I thought that much was obvious.

 

Biden gave them arms to stay in the game, but not win the game.  The goal to was to degrade Russia, which is why he would not allow US weapons to strike inside Russia. 

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

 

Yea, this where the lazy Europeans should have stepped up.   But, they dropped the ball. 

Nato was created by USA and other western allies to provide collective security against the the Soviet Union. Europe didn't drop the ball. It was a USA or rather Trump betrayal of the Nato doctrine. The betrayal has woken up Nato countries to step up.