My Second Annual Extension For Support Of A Thai Wife

[geoffphuket]

I've had a very busy day today. I thought being 'in the system' already, immigration would accept my bank deposit as they did last year - WRONG ! My application was put on hold pending them receiving documentation proving 40K Baht/month income. Fortunately the British Consulate in Phuket was able to issue me with a letter (free of charge!) showing income from offshore investment....I'm told this will be accepted. I'll find out tomorrow. So much for the supposed grand fathering for old timers

Edited August 9, 2007 by geoffphuket

[gzu88bv]

I've had a very busy day today. I thought being 'in the system' already, immigration would accept my bank deposit as they did last year - WRONG ! My application was put on hold pending them receiving documentation proving 40K Baht/month income. Fortunately the British Consulate in Phuket was able to issue me with a letter (free of charge!) showing income from offshore investment....I'm told this will be accepted. I'll find out tomorrow. So much for the supposed grand fathering for old timers

I am right to assume that this is your second extension then? Apart from your income letter what else did you have to bring along?

I do not want to spread any news prematurely, but I do have a hunch that in future, even if married, they (immigration) will go for the income letter only and want to see that money in Thailand.

[Big A]

........ the British Consulate in Phuket was able to issue me with a letter (free of charge!)

Jeez. Were they sick that day? The embassy in BKK drink boiling water and p1ss ice cubes!!

[gzu88bv]

Geoff,

Sorry, I oversaw that it was your second extension. But my question what in fact you have to bring along stands. I want to help a Brit with exactly the same situation as yours, and he does not know what steps he should actually take to play it safe, i.e. 400K in the bank, 40K monthly income letter or the Extension for Retirement (either 800K in bank, or 65K monthly income letter).

[geoffphuket]

I've had a very busy day today. I thought being 'in the system' already, immigration would accept my bank deposit as they did last year - WRONG ! My application was put on hold pending them receiving documentation proving 40K Baht/month income. Fortunately the British Consulate in Phuket was able to issue me with a letter (free of charge!) showing income from offshore investment....I'm told this will be accepted. I'll find out tomorrow. So much for the supposed grand fathering for old timers

I am right to assume that this is your second extension then? Apart from your income letter what else did you have to bring along?

I do not want to spread any news prematurely, but I do have a hunch that in future, even if married, they (immigration) will go for the income letter only and want to see that money in Thailand.

Yep, second extension. The (Phuket) office now have a new Pamphlet outlining the requirements for each type of visa - I'd copy and post it, buy my dear wife, bless her, has given it to one of her friends . I'll pick up another tomorrow.

Despite not being interested in the 400K+ deposit, they've filed copies of my bank book, confirmation letter from the bank confirming the balance, marriage registration documents - they don't accept a marriage certificate as proof of marriage any more!, Tabien Ban, wife's I.D card, our son's birth certificate (required), Completed TM7 and 1,900 Baht - I have to call back in tomorrow with the income letter from the Consulate.

Edited August 9, 2007 by geoffphuket

[JetsetBkk]

Fortunately the British Consulate in Phuket was able to issue me with a letter

Didn't know there was one! Can you give their address or phone number?

[Maestro]

I've had a very busy day today. I thought being 'in the system' already, immigration would accept my bank deposit as they did last year - WRONG ! My application was put on hold pending them receiving documentation proving 40K Baht/month income.

I have been pondering this new development since I first saw another member post that Immigration forces him to switch from 400k in the bank to income for his new extension for living with Thai wife, based on the fact that his wife is running a business which is estimated to give her an average monthly income of over 40k.

The Immigration Bureau’s translation of National Police Order 606/2549, paragraph 7.17(6), I remembered, says:

In the case of an alien married to a Thai woman, any party or both must have a total income of not less than Baht 40,000 per month, except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom. If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required.

The translation of Sunbelt reads like this:

In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

Please not the “if” I have highlighted. The way I read it, it means that if the applicant had an extension for being married to a Thai before October 1, 2006 and if he does not have a family income of minimum 40k per month, then he can continue to get an extension with 400k in the bank. It would seem that it took Immigration a while to figure out the implication of that clause and now they begin to implement it to the letter. I assume that the original Thai text has the same “if” clause.

--

Maestro

[geoffphuket]

Fortunately the British Consulate in Phuket was able to issue me with a letter

Didn't know there was one! Can you give their address or phone number?

Not many do ! Opened on the 26th April 2005 by Prince Philip

My scanners broke, so I've photo'd his business card.

PLEASE NOTE. The Phuket consulate - a one man operation, has very limited abilities and Alan Cooke cannot help with Visa applications etc

[JetsetBkk]

Not many do ! Opened on the 26th April 2005 by Prince Philip

My scanners broke, so I've photo'd his business card.

PLEASE NOTE. The Phuket consulate - a one man operation, has very limited abilities and Alan Cooke cannot help with Visa applications etc

Wow! Thanks!

[geoffphuket]

I've had a very busy day today. I thought being 'in the system' already, immigration would accept my bank deposit as they did last year - WRONG ! My application was put on hold pending them receiving documentation proving 40K Baht/month income.

I have been pondering this new development since I first saw another member post that Immigration forces him to switch from 400k in the bank to income for his new extension for living with Thai wife, based on the fact that his wife is running a business which is estimated to give her an average monthly income of over 40k.

The Immigration Bureau’s translation of National Police Order 606/2549, paragraph 7.17(6), I remembered, says:

In the case of an alien married to a Thai woman, any party or both must have a total income of not less than Baht 40,000 per month, except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom. If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required.

The translation of Sunbelt reads like this:

In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

Please not the “if” I have highlighted. The way I read it, it means that if the applicant had an extension for being married to a Thai before October 1, 2006 and if he does not have a family income of minimum 40k per month, then he can continue to get an extension with 400k in the bank. It would seem that it took Immigration a while to figure out the implication of that clause and now they begin to implement it to the letter. I assume that the original Thai text has the same “if” clause.

--

Maestro

The new Pamphlet outlines the requirements much as you've posted here (in fewer words). However, the immigration chief in Phuket has his own personal interpretation, and it would appear that regardless of being in the system from previous extensions, he's insisting on seeing 40k income - shared or from either partner.

[Maestro]

So, if you already had an extension based on marriage to a Thai and if you do not have minimum 40k monthly family income, will Immigration take your word for it that you do not have this income? Otherwise, how can you prove the non-existence of such income? That’s where it starts to get interesting.

Perhaps you could satisfy Immigration with a letter stating something like “I, the undersigned, John Doe, holder of British passport number <No.> issued at <place> on <date>, herby certify that I have no income”, and get your signature on this letter certified by your consulate. If Immigration further wants the consul’s signature certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, get it done.

--

Maestro

[geoffphuket]

So, if you already had an extension based on marriage to a Thai and if you do not have minimum 40k monthly family income, will Immigration take your word for it that you do not have this income? Otherwise, how can you prove the non-existence of such income? That’s where it starts to get interesting.

Perhaps you could satisfy Immigration with a letter stating something like “I, the undersigned, John Doe, holder of British passport number <No.> issued at <place> on <date>, herby certify that I have no income”, and get your signature on this letter certified by your consulate. If Immigration further wants the consul’s signature certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, get it done.

--

Maestro

[whopper]

multiple entry and visa runs keep looking better and better.

[Cyberstar]

Is there anyone around that has applied for an extension of this kind of visa on basis of a combined income of 40,000 K, earned in Thailand? If that's the case, what documentation was required to prove thai spouse's income. Yes, I know tax-receipts will (should) do - but what if thai spouse's income amounts to say 10,000 b/m? That will keep her in the tax-free bracket - so consequently, she'll have no tax-receipts --- So, what documentation is required then?

[Krub]

Fortunately the British Consulate in Phuket was able to issue me with a letter

Didn't know there was one! Can you give their address or phone number?

Not many do ! Opened on the 26th April 2005 by Prince Philip

My scanners broke, so I've photo'd his business card.

PLEASE NOTE. The Phuket consulate - a one man operation, has very limited abilities and Alan Cooke cannot help with Visa applications etc

The letter is free in Phuket ? WOW in Bangkok they charge me 2.448 baht for the privelege !

[gzu88bv]

Despite not being interested in the 400K+ deposit, they've filed copies of my bank book, confirmation letter from the bank confirming the balance, marriage registration documents - they don't accept a marriage certificate as proof of marriage any more!, Tabien Ban, wife's I.D card, our son's birth certificate (required), Completed TM7 and 1,900 Baht - I have to call back in tomorrow with the income letter from the Consulate.

Somebody enlighten me please regarding the marriage registration documents. The Brit whom I was talking about earlier on, he worked for over 25 years in Switzerland, his wife worked there also for 8 years, both paid their dues into the Swiss state pension plan, they got married in Switzerland 11 years ago, would they have to register their marriage now here in Thailand, if not done so already?

Second thought why I want to discuss this: He got his present Extension from Muhkda Han, they just took his original income letter last time and he has to get a new one (which btw was and will be issued by the British Embassy). And because of all this, I suggested to him do get his next Extension done at Suan Plu, as he has to go to Bangkok anyway. I wise move?

[lopburi3]

I can't answer on the marriage except to say that some offices have requested a copy of the permission to marry paperwork held by the District Office in addition to the marriage certificate but as far as I know that has only happened on first visit. A foreign marriage certificate may have to be translated and registered with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs but expect they have already done that if required.

Extensions should be done in the area you live as police will have to check your residence. Only if you have serious troubles would I advise using Bangkok - and at least one recent report seems to indicate Bangkok may not be as willing to accept applications from other locations as easily as they have in the past.

[higgy88]

I have been following both this thread and the thread on the retirement visa extension, and there seems to be a common point that people are making about what is happening when they apply for their annual visa extensions. Can someone please verify for me that, in fact, the Royal Thai Police Order 606/2549 is still in effect, it has not been changed, and there is no other written document anywhere else that idenifies other criteria that an alien must satisfy before being allowed to stay in the Kingdom? Can I assume that each individual immigration office or officer does not have the power to arbituary change any of these provisions or criteria to suit themselves? And do I have any recourse if I disagree with something they tell me I must do, or some paper they tell me I must provide?

[dereklev]

I have been following both this thread and the thread on the retirement visa extension, and there seems to be a common point that people are making about what is happening when they apply for their annual visa extensions. Can someone please verify for me that, in fact, the Royal Thai Police Order 606/2549 is still in effect, it has not been changed, and there is no other written document anywhere else that idenifies other criteria that an alien must satisfy before being allowed to stay in the Kingdom? Can I assume that each individual immigration office or officer does not have the power to arbituary change any of these provisions or criteria to suit themselves? And do I have any recourse if I disagree with something they tell me I must do, or some paper they tell me I must provide?

It is not a case of whether they have the power or not. It is down to personal interpretation of the rules.

[baabaabobo]

Thanks for that info Geoff - As I told you in a PM I was told that this would be my last year on 400K in the bank.

I warned about this here and the topic was closed. If there is a pamphlet I for one would like to see it as this will affect my future plans here.

Edited August 10, 2007 by baabaabobo

[Matt the Cat]

Not many do ! Opened on the 26th April 2005 by Prince Philip

My scanners broke, so I've photo'd his business card.

PLEASE NOTE. The Phuket consulate - a one man operation, has very limited abilities and Alan Cooke cannot help with Visa applications etc

Wow! Thanks!

I know they are cracking down as usual in Phuket so everybody is a suspect. But everybody knows that the illegal workers are all holding tourist visas. What I can’t understand is why they don’t just start checking for work permits and stop harassing retirees with arbitrary rules that change daily depending on the disposition of the official.

[Mumbo Jumbo]

higgy88 ...... Spot on , I think we would all like to know the answer to that ...

( Can someone please verify for me that, in fact, the Royal Thai Police Order 606/2549 is still in effect, it has not been changed, and there is no other written document )

Mumbo.....

[Krub]

I have been following both this thread and the thread on the retirement visa extension, and there seems to be a common point that people are making about what is happening when they apply for their annual visa extensions. Can someone please verify for me that, in fact, the Royal Thai Police Order 606/2549 is still in effect, it has not been changed, and there is no other written document anywhere else that idenifies other criteria that an alien must satisfy before being allowed to stay in the Kingdom? Can I assume that each individual immigration office or officer does not have the power to arbituary change any of these provisions or criteria to suit themselves? And do I have any recourse if I disagree with something they tell me I must do, or some paper they tell me I must provide?

Yes it is the official document laying down the rules in Thai and its english translation.

It was put in application as per 1 October 2006.

We have not seen any 'official' changes this document only a rumor (backed by the British Consul in Pattaya) that the income letter given out by the EMbassies would have to be certified by the MFA but this from October 1 2007.

It has always been into the powers of individual officers, offices to lay their own interpretation of the rules and how they see as a valid documents to fulfill the rules or not.

If you have major difficulties and want to stand your ground and 'fight your case' I would suggest you talk to a lawyer first and go with him for your extension application.

Most of us would prefer to satisfy the individual officers as much as possible to avoid confrontation (even if we feel they are asking too much....)

Good luck

[higgy88]

Sorry Mr Derek, but I do not consider being told that having 400K in the bank no longer allows me to stay in Thailand to be a simple interpretation of the rules.

[R123]

Hey Higgy88 excellent post re asking for confirmation or orther wise whether 606/2549 still in effect or not.

As I suggested in another forum at an earlier time as Thai Visa through the moderators and its sponsor Sunbelt hold themselves out as having some expertise in this field they ought to know the answer and tell us.

As it happens the sponsors have been conspicuously silent in telling us what they consider the position.

However I guess we can assume there is no change.

A lot of unnecessary scaremongering going on, and not needed if the likes of Sunbelt would state there understanding of what the situation is re extension for retirement etc.

To repeat I can see no change and prior to any attendance at immigration maybe best to ask them in advance what is needed, hence forewarned is forearmed.

Edited August 10, 2007 by R123

[baabaabobo]

Sorry Mr Derek, but I do not consider being told that having 400K in the bank no longer allows me to stay in Thailand to be a simple interpretation of the rules.

Well said!

[Krub]

Sorry Mr Derek, but I do not consider being told that having 400K in the bank no longer allows me to stay in Thailand to be a simple interpretation of the rules.

If you have been getting extensions of stay under that condition then you are correct the rule should allow you to get the extension as provided.

In this case, if refused at the application level, take it to the higher level, if thisfails, try to apply at another office or go back with a lawyer.

Maybe bringing a print of the rules in Thai and english asking if they have changed in the menatime might bring themto rethink their request.

Shouting and swearing, banging on the table will not help as they have the joker cards in their game

[RichardEllis]

Sorry Mr Derek, but I do not consider being told that having 400K in the bank no longer allows me to stay in Thailand to be a simple interpretation of the rules.

Go back with a lawyer. Preferably one with some clout ( = having friends or tea-money recipients in high places). if you get it sorted, go to a differet office next time, the guy who loses his face will remember yours.

Rich

[K2K]

Rough on the OP - so confirms my experiences there last week, at least I got a warning that next year I'd have to go the Embassy letter route, but after so long being here - serously consider other options.

BKK needs to send a directive out (perhaps this is the directive??) - not very pleasent in the land of coups (Opps I mean smiles)

Edited August 10, 2007 by K2K

[Sunbelt Asia]

If there is a pamphlet I for one would like to see it as this will affect my future plans here.

The pamphlet you are talking about is called "Extension of Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand" Sunbelt Asia was in fact the company who was assigned to translate the National Police Order and was asked to sponsor the printing of the regulations for the Immigration Bureau Royal Thai Police. Which we did several months ago. These pamphlets are available at different Immigration offices, Police Dept, Labor Dept and at the airport. We also have free copies available at our office if you would be interested in getting the pamphlet.

A lot of unnecessary scaremongering going on, and not needed if the likes of Sunbelt would state there understanding of what the situation is re extension for retirement etc.

Sorry had not seen this post before.

At the end of the day, it comes down to each province office, how they interpret the laws or feel they should be. In the National Police Order, they have that discretion even if foreigner/applicant has the entire qualifications matched to the criterions in the Order. This discretion can take place if ANY reasonable evidence exists showing the foreigner is not suitable to stay in the Kingdom. What are the grounds? The applicant only has 400K in the bank, how can he support a wife? This is what this Commander is looking at. On the otherhand the law states it only has to be 400K in the bank. The end of the day, he is able to make his OWN rules if he feels the foreigner is not suitable.

If the Immigration Office is using his discretion to make the laws tougher, it is easier to simply go to another Immigration office such as BKK where they interpret this order to be either 40K per month income or 400K in the bank for applicants before Oct 1st 2006 as stated in the English translation of The National Police Order 606/2006 7.17 (6)... on page 36 of the Pamphlet "Extension of Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand".

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com