power grid failure / blackout in spain

[save the frogs]

Cause sill unknown ...

 

 

[Harrisfan]

Lefties

[save the frogs]

Comment from a Youtube video:

I live in Spain. Yesterday was terrifying, a slow, creeping fear that seeped into everyone's mind as we realised just how vulnerable we are. No trains, no ATM, no phone service, no internet, supermarkets overwhelmed with panic buying then shutting their doors. People trapped on the otherside of town and having no way to get home. Being unable to contact their loved ones. The savage side of people began to slowly surface as people began to panic. If this had lasted more than a day the whole thing would have collapsed. That's how close we are to total chaos.

[tjintx]

Welcome!    Welcome to your new Green world!!!

[impulse]

31 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Comment from a Youtube video:

I live in Spain. Yesterday was terrifying, a slow, creeping fear that seeped into everyone's mind as we realised just how vulnerable we are. No trains, no ATM, no phone service, no internet, supermarkets overwhelmed with panic buying then shutting their doors. People trapped on the otherside of town and having no way to get home. Being unable to contact their loved ones. The savage side of people began to slowly surface as people began to panic. If this had lasted more than a day the whole thing would have collapsed. That's how close we are to total chaos.

 

It's days like those that I'm glad we have the 2nd Amendment.  Though for me in Galveston it was usually after a hurricane, when the cops were busy and the scavengers were even busier.

 

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

It's days like those that I'm glad we have the 2nd Amendment.  Though for me in Galveston it was usually after a hurricane, when the cops were busy and the scavengers were even busier.

 

The good thing about Spain is that you don't have to worry about people with guns.

[Cameroni]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The good thing about Spain is that you don't have to worry about people with guns.

 

Total nonsense. Plenty of guns in Spain. 

 

Gun clubs are huge there.

[hotsun]

45 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Comment from a Youtube video:

I live in Spain. Yesterday was terrifying, a slow, creeping fear that seeped into everyone's mind as we realised just how vulnerable we are. No trains, no ATM, no phone service, no internet, supermarkets overwhelmed with panic buying then shutting their doors. People trapped on the otherside of town and having no way to get home. Being unable to contact their loved ones. The savage side of people began to slowly surface as people began to panic. If this had lasted more than a day the whole thing would have collapsed. That's how close we are to total chaos.

You read random youtube comments? Why do you do this to yourself

[hotsun]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The good thing about Spain is that you don't have to worry about people with guns.

Guns arent such a bad way to die. You sound like a wimp

[jas007]

I'm pretty sure most people don't realize how dependent they are on the grid, especially people in large urban areas.  Maybe the grid can go down for a day and everyone will be OK, but what happens if it's down longer than that?   

 

Imagine NYC or LA with no power for a week. The food would be gone in a few days.  All electrical appliances useless.  No ATM machines. No stores open. No lights anywhere.   

 

Or imagine a big city like Phoenix, in the middle of the summer in the desert heat, suddenly with no power.  115 degrees F in the summer is fairly common. Only a few roads to higher elevations.  Lots of people wouldn't survive. 

[Cameroni]

In Spain there are. 7.5 guns per 100 people. So more than in Israel, Iran, Argentina, Sudan, England, India, China and Philippines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

[hotsun]

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

In Spain there are. 7.5 guns per 100 people. So more than in Israel, Iran, Argentina, Sudan, England, India, China and Philippines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

Who worries about guns. If someone wants you dead it wont matter how, better that than getting stabbed

[Tarteso]

Hackers.. Everybody knows, despite the squatter Sanchez's denials.

[stevenl]

39 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

In Spain there are. 7.5 guns per 100 people. So more than in Israel, Iran, Argentina, Sudan, England, India, China and Philippines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

Now let us know about gun deaths please.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

The good thing about Spain is that you don't have to worry about people with guns.

I don't worry about guns either ...... now sleepy bus, lorry or pickups drivers scare the hell out of me.

 

What is thread about?

Oh yeah, net zero taking out Spain, then dragging Portugal down with them, they got what they wanted, namely a clean but iffy grid. And building enough energy storage for a few more cloudy days than they expected will push up their unit prices 5-10x ....... enjoy!

 

I'm in the same boat, 100% solar, but can only afford the storage for 1 night, 2 cloudy days in a row, and I too need to use the grid (normally for just 1kwhr).

[khunphil]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

Comment from a Youtube video:

I live in Spain. Yesterday was terrifying, a slow, creeping fear that seeped into everyone's mind as we realised just how vulnerable we are. No trains, no ATM, no phone service, no internet, supermarkets overwhelmed with panic buying then shutting their doors. People trapped on the otherside of town and having no way to get home. Being unable to contact their loved ones. The savage side of people began to slowly surface as people began to panic. If this had lasted more than a day the whole thing would have collapsed. That's how close we are to total chaos.

 

Yep. I just finished watching and well played TV shows last week  ... coincidence 😉 This reflects quite exactly what you lived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Day_(American_TV_series)

 

[Tug]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't worry about guns either ...... now sleepy bus, lorry or pickups drivers scare the hell out of me.

 

What is thread about?

Oh year, net zero taking out Spain, then dragging Portugal down with them, they got what they wanted, namely a clean but iffy grid. And building enough energy storage for a few more cloudy days than they expected will push up their unit prices 5-10x ....... enjoy!

 

I'm in the same boat, 100% solar, but can only afford the storage for 1 night, 2 cloudy days in a row, and I too need to use the grid (normally for just 1kwhr).

One of my properties in Arizona is 100% off grid love it!my California house has solar grid tied im only paying the grid maintenance costs it’s working great for me.hopefully they get the bugs worked out of their system soon ya gots to walk before you run!!we will get better at it as time experience and battery technology gets better.

[sqwakvfr]

I have heard that this was somekind of atmospheric event????? Also, has sabotage been ruled out?  How did Tesla owners fare?  

[jvs]

The clear thing to learn from all this is to make sure you have some cash available.

Power goes off?Everything shuts down.No money ,all ATM's are not working even shops can not even open or close the cash register.

Bad news if you live in a big city,not so bad if you live on the farm.

Thank God i'm a country boy!

 

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, tjintx said:

Welcome!    Welcome to your new Green world!!!

 

Whether or not there is a green world,  if the electricity  fails, society comes to a standstill. It is electricity that operates street lights , home appliances, home lighting,  traffic signals, telecommunications, and  public transit. Not being green would not have prevented this event.

 

1 hour ago, impulse said:

It's days like those that I'm glad we have the 2nd Amendment.  Though for me in Galveston it was usually after a hurricane, when the cops were busy and the scavengers were even busier.

 

 

One of the benefits of not living in the USA is that people do not go into  savage mode  as soon as there is a  catastrophic event. Some countries have culture and civility.

 

31 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

Hackers.. Everybody knows already.

 

Why spread unsubstantiated claims? Do you get a thrill, or is this just your attempt to stir up people?

After the initial disruption, the utilities  intentionally  cut  additional power supply to prevent damage until they knew what the problem was. This is called a safeguard action.

 

The  utility explanation   was; 

Red Electrica identified two incidents of power generation loss, probably from solar plants, in southwestern Spain that caused instability in the electric system and led to a breakdown of its interconnection with France. The electrical system collapsed, affecting both the Spanish and Portuguese systems.

Spain was exporting power to France and Portugal at the time of the outage. Exports to France were close to the available net export capacity until 1000 local time. According to Red Electrica data, exports to France stopped at 1235 local time from 868 MW beforehand.

 

The south of Spain was indeed experiencing  fluctuations in its temperatures, going from cool to hot quickly in some regions.  When  the ground  heats up very quickly  the air above it warms, expands and becomes lighter. That rising warm air creates a pressure imbalance with the surrounding cooler, denser air. The atmosphere responds to this imbalance by generating waves, not unlike ripples spreading across a pond.  These pressure waves can travel through the atmosphere. In some cases, they can interact with power infrastructure — particularly long-distance, high-voltage transmission lines.

 

As the  rapid heating induced  anomalous oscillations in the very high voltage lines (400 kV) that connect  Spain with  France. It has happened before.  As soon as the power was disrupted, automatic  safeguard systems activated that started  cutting  power to protect systems. Once the  location of disruption was  identified, power  could be restored. It is done in a  step by step process to prevent system overload.

 

Until an investigation is completed and hacking is demonstrated, the common sense explanation is reasonable, particularly since it has happened before, and the utility was aware of its risk. The real issue is the delay in upgrading the transmission lines and securing the power grid by updating safety mechanisms so that large areas do not need to be shut down.

 

[connda]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

Cause sill unknown ...

 

 

It's known. 

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, jvs said:

The clear thing to learn from all this is to make sure you have some cash available.

Power goes off?Everything shuts down.No money ,all ATM's are not working even shops can not even open or close the cash register.

Bad news if you live in a big city,not so bad if you live on the farm.

Thank God i'm a country boy!

 

Not that much point in having cash in the big city if the tills don't work, and you're stuck on a train.

 

The clear thing I learn from this, is don't travel on anything that relies on the grid and keep a weeks supply of essentials in your home.

[save the frogs]

Tesla is selling their Power Wall in Thailand.

Huge investment probably. 

Need a home. Maybe not for condos? I dunno. 

 

https://www.tesla.com/th_th/powerwall

 

[Patong2021]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't worry about guns either ...... now sleepy bus, lorry or pickups drivers scare the hell out of me.

 

What is thread about?

Oh yeah, net zero taking out Spain, then dragging Portugal down with them, they got what they wanted, namely a clean but iffy grid. And building enough energy storage for a few more cloudy days than they expected will push up their unit prices 5-10x ....... enjoy!

 

I'm in the same boat, 100% solar, but can only afford the storage for 1 night, 2 cloudy days in a row, and I too need to use the grid (normally for just 1kwhr).

 

Spain  still relies on fossil fuel for approx.  25% of its  electricity generation. 50% of its electricity generation is by renewables. So, bashing the country on  net zero goals doesn't work.  The utility relies on  cycle gas turbine (CCGT) plants when solar is not available and for peak periods.  Spain's use of soler energy  has no bearing on this  incident. The problem was with the power lines, not the form of  generation. The event would have still occurred if there was a coal fired electricity generation plant.

 

[impulse]

11 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

1 hour ago, impulse said:

It's days like those that I'm glad we have the 2nd Amendment.  Though for me in Galveston it was usually after a hurricane, when the cops were busy and the scavengers were even busier.

One of the benefits of not living in the USA is that people do not go into  savage mode  as soon as there is a  catastrophic event. Some countries have culture and civility.

 

Bad news.  That's a thin veneer of civility.  They'd be eating each other if it had lasted a little longer.

 

 

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Tesla is selling their Power Wall in Thailand.

Huge investment probably. 

Need a home. Maybe not for condos? I dunno. 

 

https://www.tesla.com/th_th/powerwall

 

You can buy 13Kwhr of battery storage in Thailand for around 30,000bht.

No need to spend more on Tesla.

[Patong2021]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not that much point in having cash in the big city if the tills don't work, and you're stuck on a train.

 

The clear thing I learn from this, is don't travel on anything that relies on the grid and keep a weeks supply of essentials in your home.

 

So no use of motor vehicles in a big city then.  If  traffic signals  go down in  Bangkok, you might as well turn off the car and have a snooze, because you are not going anywhere. The only thing that can easily get around is a small scooter or a bicycle. At least with a bike you can  put it over the shoulder and walk around an obstruction.

Perhaps everyone should move to Issan and go jungle. 

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Spain  still relies on fossil fuel for approx.  25% of its  electricity generation. 50% of its electricity generation is by renewables. So, bashing the country on  net zero goals doesn't work.  The utility relies on  cycle gas turbine (CCGT) plants when solar is not available and for peak periods.  Spain's use of soler energy  has no bearing on this  incident. The problem was with the power lines, not the form of  generation. The event would have still occurred if there was a coal fired electricity generation plant.

 

But it wouldn't have affected anyone with home solar and Gas cylinders.

What it comes down to (in my mind), is you can't trust your government to provide utils any more.

They've cut their infrastructure costs to the point they are no longer reliable.

And they are so interconnected, that a minor problem will take everything out.

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

So no use of motor vehicles in a big city then.  If  traffic signals  go down in  Bangkok, you might as well turn off the car and have a snooze, because you are not going anywhere. The only thing that can easily get around is a small scooter or a bicycle. At least with a bike you can  put it over the shoulder and walk around an obstruction.

Perhaps everyone should move to Issan and go jungle. 

I actually have an electric mountain bike, which I charge from my home solar cells.

No need for Issan, I live 10km from CM town centre and have a range of 50Km.

No traffic problems, no parking problems, no electric worries, and a gas cooker with a spare cylinder.

 

The worst that can happen to me, I lose power in the early morning if it's been raining for 2 days in a row and the grid's down.

[Tug]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I actually have an electric mountain bike, which I charge from my home solar cells.

No traffic problems, no parking problems, no electric worries, and a gas cooker with a spare cylinder.

 

The worst that can happen to me, I lose power in the early morning if it's been raining for 2 days in a row and the grid's down.

Get a small generator as a standby I recommend a pure sine wave type for clean power.