Will Trump bankrupt the US entirely?

[swissie]

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Are you rich? Because if you are not, Trump will screw you over irrespective of your political allegiances. Inflation, SS and Medicare cuts all heading your way.

 

Perhaps you lack the intelligence to understand that, which comes as no surprise.

"Social Security" programs are the main drivers of "government dept". That's where the ax will fall first.

 

The 1929 tune of "Brother can you spare a dime" comes to mind. 

[swissie]

3 hours ago, Cameroni said:

It's impossible to bankrupt the US.

 

The US is richer than God.

 

Add up the value of all companies in the US, add intellectual property, then add all the shares in circulation, then add all the real estate in the US, then add in the trillions of GDP that pour in every year. 

 

In short, the US will never go bankrupt.

Absolutely correct. The US is rich. How much of this wealth is alredy deposited at the "pawn-shop"? Industrial loans/mortgages? Consumer credits? Who is in control of those assets? OR: Who owns the overwhelming wealth of America? OR: Who exactly owns the "pawn shops"?

 

[Cameroni]

Just now, swissie said:

Absolutely correct. The US is rich. How much of this wealth is alredy deposited at the "pawn-shop"? Industrial loans/mortgages? Consumer credits? Who is in control of those assets? OR: Who owns the overwhelming wealth of America? OR: Who exactly owns the "pawn shops"?

 

 

Good question. There are many different pawn shops. There's the IOUs the government issues, the buyers of those bonds are very unlikely to win any legal process to claim assets of the US in any proceedings that could be enforced. The US government is not like a private individual.

 

The United Nations General Assembly condemned debt collection on sovereign debt. When Argentina lost its famous case against the hedge funds in the US it simply refused to comply with the judgement. Ultimately it reached a settlement with bondholders, which is how these disputes tend to be resolved, by restructuring and negotiation.

 

There's the IOUs companies issues in the form of bonds and notes. These are usually drafted in the offering documents in an iron clad way to minimise exposure of company assets, ofting using offshore vehicles in the Cayman Islands.

 

Obviously loans by US banks to US companies are enforceable in the usual way. As are consumer loans in the US to US citizens.

 

As to who owns the assets of the US, the largest companies obviously have diverse shareholders from all over the world, the real estate of the US is often owned by investment funds, some owned by Middle Eastern countries, some by Donald Trump, others by different companies and individuals. Every American owns his share of reward for the part of the GDP which he, or she, created.

 

 

[swissie]

46 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Good question. There are many different pawn shops. There's the IOUs the government issues, the buyers of those bonds are very unlikely to win any legal process to claim assets of the US in any proceedings that could be enforced. The US government is not like a private individual.

 

The United Nations General Assembly condemned debt collection on sovereign debt. When Argentina lost its famous case against the hedge funds in the US it simply refused to comply with the judgement. Ultimately it reached a settlement with bondholders, which is how these disputes tend to be resolved, by restructuring and negotiation.

 

There's the IOUs companies issues in the form of bonds and notes. These are usually drafted in the offering documents in an iron clad way to minimise exposure of company assets, ofting using offshore vehicles in the Cayman Islands.

 

Obviously loans by US banks to US companies are enforceable in the usual way. As are consumer loans in the US to US citizens.

 

As to who owns the assets of the US, the largest companies obviously have diverse shareholders from all over the world, the real estate of the US is often owned by investment funds, some owned by Middle Eastern countries, some by Donald Trump, others by different companies and individuals. Every American owns his share of reward for the part of the GDP which he, or she, created.

 

 

Thanks, as usual, I appreciate your comment.

 

 Although I haven't learned anything new concerning the inner workings of "credit" and the ultimative "pawn shop". I worked for banks for 32 years. I have known about the "Cayman Islands" long before it made the headlines.

 

But your last sentence "Every American owns his share of reward for the part of the GDP which he, or she, created", strikes me.

 

How would you sell this ideology to a American person, if both parents have to work 2 to 3 jobs, just to survive. At the same time, convincing their offspring that "the American dream is alive"???

 

[swissie]

Come on guys, let's drop this tariff mumbo jumbo for a change. There is a "corrective element" taking place. The value of the US $ needs to be "dropped" by 30%.

The current administration wants it. The financial markets want it. The only way for the US to re-establish international competiveness, outside the service sector. Period.

 

The process of the Dollar devaluation has already started. An acceleraition of this process is expected. With good reason, major players are starting to look for a new "reserve currency". A "currency basket" is being considered. As not feasable today, for simplicy sake, central banks are buying Gold. 

At any rate, if the US $ should eventually lose it's "reserve currency status", it would affect every US citizen greatly.

 

[TedG]

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

How about not increasing spending, a 2 year freeze, even on social benefits..

 

The dems will never support these actions. 

[MarkyM3]

Musk is right on the money here.

 

You don't have to be a "leftie" (and I am definitely not) to see that pumping up already huge amounts of govt debt and passing it down the next generation to fund tax cuts for the super wealthy totally contradicts what they were trying to do with DOGE etc.  The leftie characterisation doesn't quite work when Musk calls it out as bs 😄

 

Also, the fact Trump's private organisation is explicitly pushing billions into crypto while he pushes to relax legislation on it is surely a conflict of interest as well. A shyster all the way. 

[Cameroni]

32 minutes ago, swissie said:

Thanks, as usual, I appreciate your comment.

 

 Although I haven't learned anything new concerning the inner workings of "credit" and the ultimative "pawn shop". I worked for banks for 32 years. I have known about the "Cayman Islands" long before it made the headlines.

 

But your last sentence "Every American owns his share of reward for the part of the GDP which he, or she, created", strikes me.

 

How would you sell this ideology to a American person, if both parents have to work 2 to 3 jobs, just to survive. At the same time, convincing their offspring that "the American dream is alive"???

 

 

I suppose you wouldn't if you've worked in banks for 32 years..

 

You're right to call me out on that statement regarding every American owning his share of the reward for his part of the GDP he created. Strictly speaking that's true, as America no longer operates slavery and people are paid for the work they do. However, it is of course an imperfect system, meaning that the worker does not get the true value of what he created, only that fraction which his employer is compelled to give him.

 

It has long been known that the American dream is dead, in the sense of upward social mobility is extremely rigid in the US, to put it mildly. The story of the dishwasher who makes a billion, it does happen, but it is a minute execption. Most people will not enjoy the social mobility which the American dream promises. This is quite true.

 

My concern is how far this gap will continue to widen. It is clearly morally unjust. But closing it presents a myriad of real problems. Nobody wants a redistribution society like in Germany or Scandinavia. But then the gaping wealth of the undeserved is also not wanted. The fine middle ground here is hard to establish.

[Patong2021]

40 minutes ago, TedG said:

 

The dems will never support these actions. 

 

It is all in the approach. The Democrats are reluctant to support a freeze as long as  the very wealthy are receiving large tax reductions.  The fiscal conservative group within the GOP are not advocating for wealthy tax cuts. There are Democrats who are willing to work with Republicans (just as there are Republicans willing to work with Democrats) to  get a responsible budget done. The problem that arises is that as soon as anyone talks about keeping some taxes, they get called a commie, and if someone suggests closing a redundant military base they are labeled anti American.  

 

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, swissie said:

"Social Security" programs are the main drivers of "government dept". That's where the ax will fall first.

 

The 1929 tune of "Brother can you spare a dime" comes to mind. 

 

AXE???? 

What axe?

 

Trump has a plan..........guns AND butter AND even more guns!!!

 

Trump calls for scrapping debt limit

President Trump on Wednesday doubled down on calls to scrap the nation’s debt ceiling, pressing for bipartisan action to abolish it and finding common ground with Democrat Sen. Elizabeth Warren

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5332843-trump-calls-for-scrapping-debt-limit/

 

 

Now that's smart!  We can print our way to prosperity, and never ever have to pay it off!

 

See?  This is why Trump was so bigly successful running his casinos!

 

Unlimited winning!©

 

[ericbj]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It would appear to some of us that the big ugly spending bill is going to lead to a massive amount of additional debt, as Elon Musk and Ray Dalio very accurately state. Many of us would question the wisdom of giving huge tax breaks to the super wealthy when the US economy is already carrying an unsustainable amount of debt, and the interest rates required to service that debt continue to rise. It does not look like the Fed will be able to lower interest rates anytime soon, as the appetite for American debt seems to be waning dramatically, for at least a dozen good reasons. 

 

For those of us who don't buy into the sloganeering we realize that very little manufacturing is coming back to the US, five major US companies have just announced that they're shifting a significant amount of their production overseas to avoid reciprocal tariffs, and that trend is likely to just continue. In addition tourism to the US is way down, due to Trump's increasingly open hostility toward the majority of the planet. 

 

Trump, nor his substandard team seem to have absolutely no understanding of globalization and the inherent ecosystems within manufacturing, and he doesn't seem to understand why manufacturing has declined in the US over the last 55 years. It certainly didn't happen in a vacuum. 

 

I predict that Trump's attempts to impose tariffs and bring manufacturing back to the US will be a massive failure of epic proportions.

 

 

He seemed to have realised the problems, at least in part.  But lays the blame elsewhere.  And instead of confronting the issues he is accelerating the decline.
Nations can avoid defaulting on their debts by engineering hyper-inflation and paying off creditors in devalued currency.  But it's a very bumpy ride.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Seems like the right wingers here REALLY don't want to talk about / acknowledge what Trump's tax bill alone would do to the national debt:

 

"Trump’s One Big Beautiful Bill Act would add $2.4 trillion to the national debt over 10 years, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office."

 

"Billionaire Elon Musk blasted the massive tax and immigration bill at the heart of President Donald Trump’s agenda on Tuesday, calling the measure “a disgusting abomination” that would burden the country with “crushingly unsustainable debt.”

 

Though Musk — who on Friday left his post as head of the U.S. DOGE Service, Trump’s cost-cutting effort — had previously criticized the bill in gentler terms, his posts on X, the social media platform he owns, represented his sharpest attack yet on the Trump White House.

...

The posts appeared to complicate the path to passage for the legislation, which barely passed the House late last month after conservatives revolted over its enormous price tag — the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says it would increase the national debt by $2.4 trillion over the next decade. [emphasis added]

 

(more)

 

Washington Post

https://archive.ph/nahLm

 

The same news report above also mentions that Trump's legislation would slice more than $1 trillion from social safety net and anti-poverty programs like Medicaid and and food stamps, while adding hundreds of billions of dollars in new defense and immigration enforcement spending.

 

It seems, Republicans answer to the Trump bill national debit burden is to advocate for even deeper cuts to federal spending on social programs [see my original post above in the this thread re why right wingers seriously want to financially gut the federal government one way or another] . Whereas others seem to be suggesting whittling down the financial impact of the bill by not giving Trump's tax breaks to all his billionaire buddies and corporate shills.

 

 

 

 

[bannork]

More pain for your average Joe:

The Independent reports U.S. electric bills may be rising faster than ever under a slate of new White House policies.

Four Republican Senators warned in an April letter that rising demand for energy is making it “imperative that any modifications to the tax code avoid worsening the economic pressures that American households and businesses already face.”

 

Their message, which was an appeal to President Donald Trump to maintain Biden-era energy credits, argued that the repeal of energy credits “that provide a direct passthrough benefit to ratepayers, would translate into immediate utility bill increases, placing additional strain on hardworking Americans.”

Average energy bill could rise $400 as Trump budget axes electricity subsidies

[JaxxBKK]

5 hours ago, connda said:

Will Trump bankrupt the US entirely?

 

He seems to be working on it.  But I'm betting he and his family makes billions in the process.

 

Well, we shall see. What we know for a fact is that Biden family has made tens if not hundreds of millions over the past decades, especially the past four years

 

The entire Biden crime family pardoned by Biden. Well, by DR Jill using autopen.

 

No idea if Trump's family will make billions. At this point Trump isn't even taking his salary.

 

Moreover, Biden student loan forgiveness, all the covid spending, USAID money and of course the Ukraine. These expenditures, a multitudes more are Bidens legacy.

 

This post is shamefully ignorant.

 

 

 

It's so tiresome trying to simply correct the narrative to the truth

[Tug]

8 hours ago, TedG said:

 

 

1) The federal budget has been a mess for sometime now.   This is not a Trump thing.   I blame the dems for buidling a government that we can't afford.    Spending is at 23% of the GDP.   Which is unstainable.  

2) Calling this a tax break for the wealthy is a stupid narrative.   

 

Naa it started with Regan and his voodoo economics Clinton and Obama both made headway bringing us back.trumps first term added 23% with zip to show for it and Joe Biden was left to clean up trumps mess.now your boy is at it again.the wealthy benefit from this orange excrement of a bill don’t kid yourself.and yes trump stands a reasonable chance of destroying Americas economy.

[JaxxBKK]

 

This must be said...

 

 

All the sudden everyone worried about bankruptcy. Well, not really...

 

The left attempts to halt DOGE efforts to save money at every step. They are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to keep wasteful spends in place - because it goes to them.

 

Next, the same can be said about USAID spending although all of this appears to be outright fraud. Still, the lawfaresuits abound to keep it intact

 

All the COVID spending. Trillions.

 

All the Ukraine spending on that worthless war

 

Weaponizing the government and attacking Trump with lawfare none of the cases went anywhere.

 

Afghanistan pull out waste.

 

Forgiving student loans. Especially the partisan and subjective nature of it

 

The waste that was DEI

 

So, leftists please do not ever again bring up spending.

[JaxxBKK]

3 minutes ago, Tug said:

Joe Biden was left to clean up trumps mess.

 

 

Again, with the ignorance or lies. No idea which.

 

Please read my post above

[Tug]

Just now, JaxxBKK said:

 

 

Again, with the ignorance or lies. No idea which.

 

Please read my post above

I did .you are wrong giving our surplus food to the starving is a good thing.supporting a nation fighting for its survival against a viscous raping murdering criminal foe is a good thing for us and for Europe our friends….all for less than 5% of our defense budget and the money stays here replenishing stocks….thats effin brilliant 100% BRILLIANT.we all saw with our owne eyes what trump did the mistake was and is in not arresting that traitor and let him fight it from prison.Afghanistan was a train wreck no doubt,no one thought they would have folded so quickly.yea gotta bankrupt the most brilliant for their education that’s a winning strategy ehh?NOT!I disagree on DEI and stop trying to label others it makes you look like a commie

[JaxxBKK]

Spending 🤣🤣🤣

 

Tossing gold bars off the titanic

 

This forum is just lousy with dishonest people.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/27/climate/epa-gold-bars-clean-energy-funds/index.html

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/trump-epa-chief-accuses-biden-of-tossing-gold-bars-off-the-titanic/ar-AA1yWtf2

 

Above from your illustrious mainstream media

 

Direct from the horse's mouth 

https://rumble.com/v5vnn35-were-throwing-gold-bars-off-the-titanic-epa-admits-nefarious-scheme-against.html

 

 

[spidermike007]

10 hours ago, JaxxBKK said:

 

Wine searcher 😂

 

 

What an epic website for economic analysis 👍

It happens to be an expert source for wine related businesses, though that thought probably never entered your mind. We are talking about tens of billions of dollars after all when it comes to wine importers, distributors and restaurants that serve fine wine, but that's probably not something you would ever know about because the Mont Clare wine that you consume, which is not of much relevance to the economy. 

[spidermike007]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Seems like the right wingers here REALLY don't want to talk about / acknowledge what Trump's tax bill alone would do to the national debt:

 

"Trump’s One Big Beautiful Bill Act would add $2.4 trillion to the national debt over 10 years, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office."

 

"Billionaire Elon Musk blasted the massive tax and immigration bill at the heart of President Donald Trump’s agenda on Tuesday, calling the measure “a disgusting abomination” that would burden the country with “crushingly unsustainable debt.”

 

Though Musk — who on Friday left his post as head of the U.S. DOGE Service, Trump’s cost-cutting effort — had previously criticized the bill in gentler terms, his posts on X, the social media platform he owns, represented his sharpest attack yet on the Trump White House.

...

The posts appeared to complicate the path to passage for the legislation, which barely passed the House late last month after conservatives revolted over its enormous price tag — the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says it would increase the national debt by $2.4 trillion over the next decade. [emphasis added]

 

(more)

 

Washington Post

https://archive.ph/nahLm

 

The same news report above also mentions that Trump's legislation would slice more than $1 trillion from social safety net and anti-poverty programs like Medicaid and and food stamps, while adding hundreds of billions of dollars in new defense and immigration enforcement spending.

 

It seems, Republicans answer to the Trump bill national debit burden is to advocate for even deeper cuts to federal spending on social programs [see my original post above in the this thread re why right wingers seriously want to financially gut the federal government one way or another] . Whereas others seem to be suggesting whittling down the financial impact of the bill by not giving Trump's tax breaks to all his billionaire buddies and corporate shills.

 

 

 

 

You are correct. Most are so spectacularly desperate to defend Trump that they are truly unwilling to discuss policy. This is a rather recent development and it has something to do with the dumbing down of information within the MAGA movement, and it has a lot more to do with sloganeering than it does discussion of real policy. 

[spidermike007]

10 hours ago, JaxxBKK said:

 

The OP fails to grasp the tarrifs are not about tarrifs. They are about strong arming countries into balancing trade

 

The OP dies not mention the trade agreements and influx of investment whatsoever.

 

None of this will solve the broken liberal, globalist hegemony. Nevertheless, it's something more than we got out of a senile, child sniffing dottering old fool who had zero trade policy because his mind was mashed potatoes

Correct. I don’t think he has a coherent value structure as most of us understand it. I think we’re seeing a president who’s operating without anything any of us would recognize as a conscience. Truly.

 

It is about showing what he can get away with. It’s about showing his enemies that what they support, he can tear down. It is all about displays of brute strength. He gets off on that, and in that sense, it seems not so much an autocracy but a flexocracy. Let me show you how I can flex my bicep as I use it to power my fist coming into your face.

 

It’s not about any coherent values. It’s not about any North Star. It’s about showing that you can turn the boat 180 degrees around and that you can do whatever you want and you can bring the people who opposed you to their knees.

[JaxxBKK]

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It happens to be an expert source for wine related businesses, though that thought probably never entered your mind. We are talking about tens of billions of dollars after all when it comes to wine importers, distributors and restaurants that serve fine wine, but that's probably not something you would ever know about because the Mont Clare wine that you consume, which is not of much relevance to the economy. 

 

I don't drink wine. I prefer Scotch and Bourbon.

 

The tarrifs won't stand and everything will shake out eventually. Purpose of tariffs are too strong arm countries into acceptable trade agreements.

 

I don't care a wit about the wine importers. My guess is most Americans and even wine drinkers don't care either - imported wine could entirely disappear from the shelves in the United States and my thinking is Americans would be perfectly ok with that. America produces excellent wine

 

You mentioned Montclair. I don't drink wine but if I were to it would be this brand because I don't trust how bottles of proper wine could be handled in this heat.

 

My mother drank a great deal of wine. I grew up living next door to the cousin of Robert Mondavi for what that's worth.

 

Go Cali!

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

AXE???? 

What axe?

 

Trump has a plan..........guns AND butter AND even more guns!!!

 

Trump calls for scrapping debt limit

President Trump on Wednesday doubled down on calls to scrap the nation’s debt ceiling, pressing for bipartisan action to abolish it and finding common ground with Democrat Sen. Elizabeth Warren

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5332843-trump-calls-for-scrapping-debt-limit/

 

 

Now that's smart!  We can print our way to prosperity, and never ever have to pay it off!

 

See?  This is why Trump was so bigly successful running his casinos!

 

Unlimited winning!©

 

Debt is one of Trump's favorite things in the entire world, he has built an empire on dead and he has become an expert at erasing that debt through bankruptcy, grifting and fraud. 

 

But he is just too simple minded to understand that that would not apply to federal debt, however since he doesn't care one iota about America's future after he's gone it means nothing to him. He is the polar opposite of a patriot. One could even go so far as to call him a traitor, when you take into account the extent to which he has betrayed American values. 

[JaxxBKK]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You are correct. Most are so spectacularly desperate to defend Trump that they are truly unwilling to discuss policy. This is a rather recent development and it has something to do with the dumbing down of information within the MAGA movement, and it has a lot more to do with sloganeering than it does discussion of real policy. 

 

Lol. Well, you two go have a circle jerk.

 

I'm a supporter of the truth, US Constitution and universal bill of rights extended to all of humanity.

 

I'm both a libertarian and a populist.

 

There are many things I disagree with Trump on a d that list grows daily unfortunately. Nevertheless, we have the Biden legacy which will live in infamy and the notion that Shambala Harris would do a better job at managing the nation's problems after 4 years under Biden is patently absurd.

[JaxxBKK]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Debt is one of Trump's favorite things in the entire world, he has built an empire on dead and he has become an expert at erasing that debt through bankruptcy, grifting and fraud. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RogUJp69YE4

[kevozman1]

I don't know about all of that, but just to remind everyone that if you have moved to Thailand and are complaining about Trump's (actor/puppet) administration being 'far right', which is still very much under Modern Liberalism BTW, then you're a hypocrite and also if you're under 50 there is a decent chance you will live long enough to see the West go into a true right wing turn for he first time in 60 years. Toodles.

[Dan O]

14 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

All the sudden the left is concerned about spending. How funny is that? 

Spending in excess has not been a left only or dem only occurrence. The Republicans have done more than their share and Trump is trying to be top of the heap in that. It sad how you can see the truth, hear the truth but still believe the lie. 

 

Whats funny in a pathetic way is that you and your Trump minion group take any factual comment about trump and try to twist it to being a leqft issue thats never occurred before and somehow created by them. 

[JaxxBKK]

25 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

. It’s about showing that you can turn the boat 180 degrees around and that you can do whatever you want and you can bring the people who opposed you to their knees.

 

This was as a point of fact the last 4 years under the Biden administration. Therefore, it very well might be the next four years and maybe even the next 8 years at a minimum. You people have dug your grave now you must lay in it.

 

The last 4 years.. absolute massive conspiracy to rig elections via bringing millions of illegal aliens (many criminal, some terrorist) into the country will never be forgotten.

 

... COVID, DEI, trannygate, the numerous lawsuits lawfare against Trump none of which stuck, FBI CIA DNI CDC NIH etc all weaponized. Freedoms were directly threatened by secretive Star chamber panels. Millions of people lost their livelihoods and even lives during covid farce. The trillions spent in Ukraine. The pardons which cover up unquestionable treasonous activities. You seem to be perfectly okay with all that. It's just O M B ...

 

Your post is so ironic because the last 4 years were so immoral and yet you're on some high horse holding Trump to some BS liberal standard that you have applied. He's not liberal and his constituencies are not liberal so why would they be doing anything that would please you double especially after the last 4 years of infamy

 

You still not detailed how your businessES has directly suffered at this moment in time under President trump. Please do so

[Dan O]

21 minutes ago, JaxxBKK said:

 

Lol. Well, you two go have a circle jerk.

 

I'm a supporter of the truth, US Constitution and universal bill of rights extended to all of humanity.

 

I'm both a libertarian and a populist.

 

There are many things I disagree with Trump on a d that list grows daily unfortunately. Nevertheless, we have the Biden legacy which will live in infamy and the notion that Shambala Harris would do a better job at managing the nation's problems after 4 years under Biden is patently absurd.

Wanna expand on the Biden legacy that will live on in infamy? Give us some specifics not just opinion or rumor.