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Poisonous Bread?

Featured Replies

On 9/29/2025 at 3:55 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Seems lawless here what businesses can put in food and drink, the biggest crime seems to be the cheapest of cheap oil businesses use

 

While I agree with the sentiment, let’s not be too quick to judge Thailand’s food industry.

 

Look no further than the United States, where food practices are often nothing short of criminal. Many products sold there would be illegal in the EU unless they’re reformulated - removing certain artificial colours, high-fructose corn syrup, brominated vegetable oils, or excessive preservatives. For example, some popular breakfast cereals, sodas, and snack foods contain ingredients that the EU has outright banned due to health risks.

 

But the bigger, more insidious issue is seed oils. Soy, canola, sunflower, and corn oils are in nearly everything - from fried fast food and salad dressings to baked goods and even sauces. These oils are highly processed and rich in omega-6 fats, which, in excess, can contribute to chronic inflammation, heart disease, and other metabolic issues.

 

It’s a hidden health crisis, quietly creeping up on us under the guise of cheap, long-lasting, mass-produced food - driven entirely by corporate profit.

 

Even in countries with stricter regulations, processed food often hides these oils in “vegetable oil” blends, making it nearly impossible for the average consumer to avoid them without serious effort.

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  • Everyone here seems to want products made in China and not USA, you lefties got what you wanted

  • As a self acknowledged expert in the food industry with such a noble crusade, I’m wondering why you choose to eat white sliced mass produced bread…?   I smell the foul odor of another rabid

  • Lots of preservatives added.    Put a loaf outside tonight, under a cloudless sky, I bet they can see it glowing from the international space station.   

Posted Images

On 9/30/2025 at 1:36 AM, Lorry said:

I bought that stuff (sorry, I wouldn't call it bread) too, for the first time, about a month ago,  and one month after opening it looks, feels and tastes like on the first day.

Not in fridge, not even in a/c. Maybe the air in a higher floor is drier?

I didn't look for an expiration date,  it obviously doesn't need one (maybe AD 2500?).

Actually, I was thinking of posting about it, @CanadaSam was faster.

 

 

In short - if your bread is going stale faster... its simply because its better bread... 

Buy good bread in France, its inedible and hard the following day - thats because its baked fresh each day.... its shame the the supermarkets taking over are killing that lost world of quality products from a local source.

 

Bread is an extremely simple product: 

At its simplest, bread is made from just a few basic ingredients:

- Flour – Usually wheat flour, which provides gluten to give bread its structure and chewiness.

- Water – Hydrates the flour and activates gluten and yeast.

- Yeast – A leavening agent that ferments sugars in the flour, producing carbon dioxide and making the bread rise.

- Salt – Adds flavour and controls yeast activity.

Optional or common additions include:

- Sugar – Feeds the yeast and adds sweetness.

- Fats – Butter, oil, or shortening for softness and flavour.

- Milk or eggs – Often added for richness or a softer crumb.

- Seeds, nuts, or herbs – For texture and flavour.

 

So at its core, traditional bread is basically flour + water + yeast + salt.

 

On the other hand - commercial supermarket bread today is much more than just flour, water, yeast, and salt:

- Flour – Usually highly processed white or enriched wheat flour.

- Water – Same as traditional bread.

- Yeast – For leavening.

- Salt – For flavour.

- Sugar or high-fructose corn syrup – Feeds the yeast faster, extends shelf life, and adds sweetness.

- Vegetable oils – Often soybean, canola, or sunflower oil; makes the bread soft and keeps it from drying out.

- Dough conditioners / emulsifiers – Chemicals like mono- and diglycerides or DATEM to improve texture, shelf life, and make slicing easier.

- Preservatives – Such as calcium propionate or sorbic acid to prevent mold growth.

- Enzymes – Added to speed up dough processing and keep bread soft.

- Milk powders or whey – Sometimes added for softness, flavour, or browning.

- Soy flour or lecithin – Helps with texture and shelf life.

 

The result: bread that stays soft and “fresh” for days or weeks - but often at the cost of seed oils, added sugars, and chemical additives.

 

If you want good bread - its going to have to be purchased in the morning from an artisanal bakery, and expect it to be hard and almost inedible the following day... 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

While I agree with the sentiment, let’s not be too quick to judge Thailand’s food industry.

 

Look no further than the United States, where food practices are often nothing short of criminal. Many products sold there would be illegal in the EU unless they’re reformulated - removing certain artificial colours, high-fructose corn syrup, brominated vegetable oils, or excessive preservatives. For example, some popular breakfast cereals, sodas, and snack foods contain ingredients that the EU has outright banned due to health risks.

 

But the bigger, more insidious issue is seed oils. Soy, canola, sunflower, and corn oils are in nearly everything - from fried fast food and salad dressings to baked goods and even sauces. These oils are highly processed and rich in omega-6 fats, which, in excess, can contribute to chronic inflammation, heart disease, and other metabolic issues.

 

It’s a hidden health crisis, quietly creeping up on us under the guise of cheap, long-lasting, mass-produced food - driven entirely by corporate profit.

 

Even in countries with stricter regulations, processed food often hides these oils in “vegetable oil” blends, making it nearly impossible for the average consumer to avoid them without serious effort.

Agree, except for the seed oil BS that's posted everywhere.  Seed oil, at least Canola, has be proven to be healthier for you than Olive Oil, Butter & Ghee.   Both for cardiac health & liver health by randomized trial studies, doing blood & liver enzyme testing before & after diet adjustments.

 

The amounts of oils, especially hydrogenated & sugars in fast food, and amount of servings folks shove down their mouth is definitely a problem, along with their sedentary lifestyles.

On 9/29/2025 at 1:23 AM, CanadaSam said:

I'm amazed that bread in Thailand (store bought, mostly sandwich, sliced) does not appear to get stale or mouldy, even after double or triple it's expiry date!

 

The bread that I buy from 711 and other supermarkets lasts well beyond the expiry date, even 2 or 3 weeks after expiry, without a trace of mould on it!!!

 

Having worked in the food industry, I know that this can be acheived by adding very large amounts of poisonous preservatives, but shouldn't the Gov't do some testing to ensure that everybody eating bread does not get cancer etc., from the copious amounts of chemicals added?

so you're assuming they don't when they do..and why do you think there is a compulsory use by date on the packet..of course you can go ahead and have the bread tested for its bio-chemical makeup, which is listed on the packet, or have a Lab do the Mircobiology and Mycology.

I would be interested in reading the results. You may not be aware, but  bacteria and fungi spores are not visible to the naked eye!

On 9/29/2025 at 4:18 AM, Celsius said:

Not everything in Thailand is made of inferior quality and dangerous ingredients.  Stainless steel refrigerator handles deteriorate within 3–4 years, for example.  This indicates that no protective treatments or preservatives were applied to the door handles.

OR..the fridge door handles/doors were hardly ever disinfected,

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

In short - if your bread is going stale faster... its simply because its better bread... 

Buy good bread in France, its inedible and hard the following day - thats because its baked fresh each day

Correct.

Not only in France, all over the bread-eating countries of Central and Eastern Europe bread is baked fresh each day.

You wouldn't want to eat yesterday's bread.

You don't even eat fresh rolls from the morning in the late afternoon,  inedible.

On 9/28/2025 at 10:18 PM, Celsius said:

Not everything in Thailand is made of inferior quality and dangerous ingredients.  Stainless steel refrigerator handles deteriorate within 3–4 years, for example.  This indicates that no protective treatments or preservatives were applied to the door handles.

Why does stainless steel need protective treatment? But a stainless steel handle on a fridge door does seem over kill.

14 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Agree, except for the seed oil BS that's posted everywhere.  Seed oil, at least Canola, has be proven to be healthier for you than Olive Oil, Butter & Ghee.   Both for cardiac health & liver health by randomized trial studies, doing blood & liver enzyme testing before & after diet adjustments.

 

The amounts of oils, especially hydrogenated & sugars in fast food, and amount of servings folks shove down their mouth is definitely a problem, along with their sedentary lifestyles.

Olive oil has always been the healthiest oil, with more anti-oxidants than any other, Canola having none plus being GMO  it also lasts longer on the shelf Canola is the best of the seed oils and has less saturated fat, but eating too much oil isn't heart healthy anyway, so moderation in any is best..................https://www.aboutoliveoil.org/oliveoil-vs-canolaoil.

13 minutes ago, Geoff914 said:

Why does stainless steel need protective treatment? But a stainless steel handle on a fridge door does seem over kill.


Real SS doesn't. 
What they use in appliances for handles is NOT SS. Betcha a magnet sticks to them.
They use a 400 series thats garbage in appliances and it has lots of iron in it so it does rust.

Real SS will stain though (the small rust spots you see)

21 hours ago, FlorC said:

Yeah , but nearly all of them use teflon for the thing that holds your bread.

Many use ceramic coatings, and others are just stainless steel, which is likely what I'll buy.Baking temps for bread are lower so teflon usually wouldn't be a risk.

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Many use ceramic coatings, and others are just stainless steel, which is likely what I'll buy.Baking temps for bread are lower so teflon usually wouldn't be a risk.

Ok.

 

so teflon usually wouldn't be a risk

 

I don't want it though.

 

4 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Olive oil has always been the healthiest oil, with more anti-oxidants than any other, Canola having none plus being GMO  it also lasts longer on the shelf Canola is the best of the seed oils and has less saturated fat, but eating too much oil isn't heart healthy anyway, so moderation in any is best..................https://www.aboutoliveoil.org/oliveoil-vs-canolaoil.

 

I use canola to cook with, unless high heat, then peanut.  Tallow with beef.  Soybean for deep frying.

 

Olive for dressing, though prefer Sesame for taste & smell.  Not a bit fan of olives.

 

Link doesn't state much except antioxidant & non GMO.  Like the lower saturated fats of Canola.

 

I give canola a slight edge due to slight improvement in blood work as less triglycerides always a good thing, and neutral flavor.

 

image.png.ddbe30823a289120152b4acee3317ec5.png

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

I use canola to cook with, unless high heat, then peanut.  Tallow with beef.  Soybean for deep frying.

 

Olive for dressing, though prefer Sesame for taste & smell.  Not a bit fan of olives.

 

Link doesn't state much except antioxidant & non GMO.  Like the lower saturated fats of Canola.

 

I give canola a slight edge due to slight improvement in blood work as less triglycerides always a good thing, and neutral flavor.

 

image.png.ddbe30823a289120152b4acee3317ec5.png

 

 

 

There's no way to gauge by blood work what oil is better if a person's full diet isn't taken into consideration, and comparing it to another also won't work as people aren't the same as far as diet, metabolism and genetics. If you looked at a singular person's blood work who was eating Olive oil and then they changed to Canola, with the same diet, you would be able to see a possible difference.  You have to look at the oils themselves and their ingredients. Both Olive and canola are good oils. Olive just has more antioxidants. 

2 hours ago, FlorC said:

Ok.

 

so teflon usually wouldn't be a risk

 

I don't want it though.

 

I would be a lot more concerned in what I ate and drank than the possible harmful effects of teflon used properly. I'll be getting stainless steel anyway, as it's easy to clean if you know what you're doing.

59 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Both Olive and canola are good oils. Olive just has more antioxidants. 

Less saturate fat & triglycerides is always a good thing.  

 

image.png.7a5af7aeded07b4453b0d15161d3ebfd.png

 

I get plenty of antioxidants from other foods.  Oil source is not where I want my antioxidants to come from, as way to caloric heavy vs other foods.  

 

Oils, cooking fats simply used as medium to transfer heat to food while cooking, not as a source of nutrition. 

 

Our oil intake is so little, that there really is no significant nutritional value added to our diet.  Along with calories

 

That's what blueberries & dark chocolate are for, which I eat every day.

 

Per 100 grams, blueberries & chocolate at tops.  to put that in perspective.  100 gr of Olive oil = 22 teaspoons / 109ml or 884 calories  :w00t:

 

image.png.1c5612285b30970d2125564c4e2a44de.png

 

Best foods per 100 grams ...

image.png.9cc93204c4cd593f47b18cccb3a06e67.png

 

On 9/29/2025 at 1:23 AM, CanadaSam said:

I'm amazed that bread in Thailand (store bought, mostly sandwich, sliced) does not appear to get stale or mouldy

I'm not amazed.

Do you know there are recipes to bake your own bread?

(Actually the preservatives as they are in your bread from BigC and others are not poisonous)

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Less saturate fat & triglycerides is always a good thing.  

 

image.png.7a5af7aeded07b4453b0d15161d3ebfd.png

 

I get plenty of antioxidants from other foods.  Oil source is not where I want my antioxidants to come from, as way to caloric heavy vs other foods.  

 

Oils, cooking fats simply used as medium to transfer heat to food while cooking, not as a source of nutrition. 

 

Our oil intake is so little, that there really is no significant nutritional value added to our diet.  Along with calories

 

That's what blueberries & dark chocolate are for, which I eat every day.

 

Per 100 grams, blueberries & chocolate at tops.  to put that in perspective.  100 gr of Olive oil = 22 teaspoons or 884 calories  :w00t:

 

image.png.1c5612285b30970d2125564c4e2a44de.png

 

Best foods per 100 grams ...

image.png.9cc93204c4cd593f47b18cccb3a06e67.png

 

I don't use oil for any nutritional value but to cook certain foods, so using the healthiest ones is a good choice. Eating a varied diet gives me all the nutrients I need. 

Many fresh products (fruit, veg, bread) undergo gamma ray irradiation before going on sale......  the gamma rays (low dosage) kills the bacteria in the product and hence extend the shelf-life.

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I don't use oil for any nutritional value but to cook certain foods, so using the healthiest ones is a good choice. Eating a varied diet gives me all the nutrients I need. 

That's why I use canola, and added plus, damn inexpensive, 82 baht a liter, Naturel brand from Singapore.

 

Not sure about cholesterol free :cheesy:

https://naturelliving.com/product/naturel-dha-canola-oil-2l/

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

I'm not amazed.

Do you know there are recipes to bake your own bread?

(Actually the preservatives as they are in your bread from BigC and others are not poisonous)

Agree, bread in TH is pretty safe to eat.  As TH bans the use of the harmful ingredients, other counties (USA) allow to be added to their breads and food production.

 

Just read the label, and your carb/sugar % should be a guide to healthier loaves.  For me, Glucose (sugar/carbs) is the demon in my diet, so try to keep it low.

 

So eat mostly homemade bread;

500 gr flour (300 bread, 200 whole wheat)

~325 gr water (350 if all bread flour)

10 gr yeast (red)

10 gr sugar (when making whole wheat)

10 gr salt

 

Gets sliced and in the freezer after the first day of eating too much 🙄

 

Bread isn't the demon, as just a conveyance of all the other bad stuff eaten with it.

 

image.png.59ed4c3cbffd84bdc5292b7e50d47ac8.png

7 hours ago, Slowhand225 said:


Real SS doesn't. 
What they use in appliances for handles is NOT SS. Betcha a magnet sticks to them.
They use a 400 series thats garbage in appliances and it has lots of iron in it so it does rust.

Real SS will stain though (the small rust spots you see)

Confused scientist here 🙂,  All alloys of steel are primarily made of iron and therefore are attracted to magnets.  I don't understand your comment....

 

Austenitic Stainless 316/304 series are not magnetic.
There are several alloys that are not.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Many use ceramic coatings, and others are just stainless steel, which is likely what I'll buy.Baking temps for bread are lower so teflon usually wouldn't be a risk.

True, especially here, TH, most ovens can't get that hot. 

 

First 10+ mins of cooking our bread, and it's on the highest oven setting 230°C (446°F) + fans, although using oven thermometer, don't think I've ever noticed it higher than 235°C.  If it would go up to 250°C, then I would use higher temp.

 

Then it gets lowered to about 175°C/350°F, till internal temp hits 190°F

 

For those that like a crustier bread (I don't) just mist it with water, prior to and during cooking.

 

I got a bread machine, but it really sucks, (collecting dust) and yet to make a loaf out of it.  Had a good one in USA, and made bread weekly.  Don't know what my bread/cake pans are made of.  Does have some iron in them, as magnetic (just tested).   Not sure if teflon coated/non stick, as use parchment paper.  Cheesecake comes off the pan easy enough, so maybe non stick coating.

 

image.png.ac28d7e28622037a84ab481dd0f93004.png

 

Teflon shouldn't be an issue as our oven doesn't get that hot ...

 

image.png.59db3de955dc0a215076643f1ecc973d.png

 

We do most of our cooking on cast iron & SS.   Have 1 teflon saucepan that never gets pass 'simmer' temp, so <100°C / 212°F

 

Not a big fan of 'renting' cookware, so stopped by teflon decades ago.  They really are crap and never last long.  Cast iron & SS are immortal :coffee1:

30 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

True, especially here, TH, most ovens can't get that hot. 

 

First 10+ mins of cooking our bread, and it's on the highest oven setting 230°C (446°F) + fans, although using oven thermometer, don't think I've ever noticed it higher than 235°C.  If it would go up to 250°C, then I would use higher temp.

 

Then it gets lowered to about 175°C/350°F, till internal temp hits 190°F

 

For those that like a crustier bread (I don't) just mist it with water, prior to and during cooking.

 

I got a bread machine, but it really sucks, (collecting dust) and yet to make a loaf out of it.  Had a good one in USA, and made bread weekly.  Don't know what my bread/cake pans are made of.  Does have some iron in them, as magnetic (just tested).   Not sure if teflon coated/non stick, as use parchment paper.  Cheesecake comes off the pan easy enough, so maybe non stick coating.

 

image.png.ac28d7e28622037a84ab481dd0f93004.png

 

Teflon shouldn't be an issue as our oven doesn't get that hot ...

 

image.png.59db3de955dc0a215076643f1ecc973d.png

 

We do most of our cooking on cast iron & SS.   Have 1 teflon saucepan that never gets pass 'simmer' temp, so <100°C / 212°F

 

Not a big fan of 'renting' cookware, so stopped by teflon decades ago.  They really are crap and never last long.  Cast iron & SS are immortal :coffee1:

I remember when taught in college about machining PTFE. Never smoke when machining PTFE. Something to do with fumes inhaled through a cigarette produced hydroflouric acid in the lungs and killed you. 

3 hours ago, Slowhand225 said:

 

Austenitic Stainless 316/304 series are not magnetic.
There are several alloys that are not.

 

 

 

Mea culpa, you're correct!

On 9/29/2025 at 4:31 AM, angryguy said:

Everyone here seems to want products made in China and not USA, you lefties got what you wanted

My case exactly.

 

No more products made in the USA or even licensed since the Trump taxes, no more McDonald's and Starbucks, no more Coke and Pepsi, and I replaced my HP PC with a good and solid Lenovo.

 

Besides, Chinese quality is constantly improving, and even if this country is criticized here, at least they're not hostile.

On 9/28/2025 at 7:23 PM, CanadaSam said:

read does not get cancer etc., from the copious amounts of chemicals added?

 

Perhaps not, but you get fat of eating bread.

On 9/29/2025 at 4:18 AM, Celsius said:

Not everything in Thailand is made of inferior quality and dangerous ingredients.  Stainless steel refrigerator handles deteriorate within 3–4 years, for example.  This indicates that no protective treatments or preservatives were applied to the door handles.

Utter tosh.

On 9/29/2025 at 4:31 AM, angryguy said:

Everyone here seems to want products made in China and not USA, you lefties got what you wanted

It was your "Right Wing", tricky Dicky Nixon who opened the China door and Mr. Republican, Ronald Reagan who negotiated lopsided trade deals to sell US Soybeans and Buicks that the Chinese capitalized on so you can just look in the mirror and put the blame where it really belongs.

1 hour ago, dddave said:

It was your "Right Wing", tricky Dicky Nixon who opened the China door and Mr. Republican, Ronald Reagan who negotiated lopsided trade deals to sell US Soybeans and Buicks that the Chinese capitalized on so you can just look in the mirror and put the blame where it really belongs.

Trade deals need to be approved by Congress and you can change them at any time.  So no one person, administration, party is to blame for anything, that lasts more than 2-4-6-8 yrs.  Congress, House & Senate, along with administrations change constantly.   

 

There is only 1 party, with slight changes every few years.  Ignore the distractions, and anyone that cares, know the politicians, before & after you elect them, and simply vote the incumbent idiots out.

 

It's not rocket science, but apparently everyone is either too stupid, or just doesn't care enough.

 

Som naam na

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