Overstay, Police Involved!

[cneuy3]

I have a friend that was staying here in Thailand on overstay for about 3 months and also lost his passport. I'm not quite sure what his situation is right now but I've heard from another friend that he is being detained by the police. I was unaware that he lost his passport. For whatever reason he seems unable to use his cell phone while in police custody but can send text messages?! I realize this is a bad situation for him.

So far I've text messaged him the US Embassy(his home country) phone number and told him to contact them. he doesn't speak thai. What are his best options for working this out with the police? Should he get a lawyer? is there an agency other than the Embassy that can help with his problem?

I'm in Chiang Mai so I can't really make it there to add any support. I'd appreciate any advice.

[IMA_FARANG]

I have a friend that was staying here in Thailand on overstay for about 3 months and also lost his passport. I'm not quite sure what his situation is right now but I've heard from another friend that he is being detained by the police. I was unaware that he lost his passport. For whatever reason he seems unable to use his cell phone while in police custody but can send text messages?! I realize this is a bad situation for him.

So far I've text messaged him the US Embassy(his home country) phone number and told him to contact them. he doesn't speak thai. What are his best options for working this out with the police? Should he get a lawyer? is there an agency other than the Embassy that can help with his problem?

I'm in Chiang Mai so I can't really make it there to add any support. I'd appreciate any advice.

Not good. A 3 months overstay won't be looked on as an "I forgot the date" problem, and not having a passport to prove nationality won't make his case very favorabe to the U.S. embassy.

If you are really interested in helping you might call the U.S. embassy yourself. Ask for the american consulate and let them know it involves an american citizen dtained by the Thai police for overstay. Give them his name, state that you know he is a U.S. citizen, and the details of what you know of his situation. But don't expect any fast action from the embassy. They don't act fast, and they don't feel all that sympathetic to people who don't seem to care about the rules for visa and extensions. They are busy enough taking care of those who follow the rules.

Good luck, but be prepared for him to be deported from Thailand.

Edited August 14, 2007 by IMA_FARANG

[gzu88bv]

I have a friend that was staying here in Thailand on overstay for about 3 months and also lost his passport......

I do not want to be too harsh on your friend. I also do not want to judge other people. But when I read that someone overstayed for 3 months then that person has to be blamed by himselve only. And loosing his passport at the same time rings me a bell too, sorry.

I might be thinking loudly here, but it seems that some people just do not things right and that is a shame.

[Jingthing]

Just what this guy needs now rotting in a third world prison. The moral police. Its an overstay visa violation not the crime of the century, folks. Get some perspective.

Of course the guy screwed up. However, I think the outrage from us, all vulnerable farangs with very few rights here, should be against a system that throws some of us in jail for these relatively minor violations. He needs help, not lectures. Perhaps you lose your passport and you aren't on overstay and before you can fix it you have a run in with the police. It could be you! What if you have a medical condition? You think you would be well cared for in there?

Edited August 14, 2007 by Jingthing

[meadish_sweetball]

However, I think the outrage from us, all vulnerable farangs with very few rights here, should be against a system that throws some of us in jail for these relatively minor violations.

Compassion is all good and I do feel a little sorry for the guy, but I honestly don't know of any country that would not detain an overstayer. Do you?

The visa regulations are for real and it is not that difficult to follow them unless you're incapacitated or in a coma.

[Jingthing]

Argentina does not detain visa overstayers. At least western tourist types and I am certain about that. I am sure there are others.

I really do believe Thailand is over zealous in the enforcement of these matters. 3 month address reports in person? Excessive. I don't why they are so over zealous but my theory is it is a symptom of xenophobia.

Yes! They are for real. No doubt about it. Beware and do all you can to avoid the sorry fate of this poor schlub,

I never said don't respect the rules and don't respect the total power they have. But I am saying, kicking a poor guy when he is down for such a minor thing is very unseemly.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Jingthing

[TopDogger]

Just what this guy needs now rotting in a third world prison. The moral police. Its an overstay visa violation not the crime of the century, folks. Get some perspective.

Of course the guy screwed up. However, I think the outrage from us, all vulnerable farangs with very few rights here, should be against a system that throws some of us in jail for these relatively minor violations. He needs help, not lectures. Perhaps you lose your passport and you aren't on overstay and before you can fix it you have a run in with the police. It could be you! What if you have a medical condition? You think you would be well cared for in there?

He took the risk & got caught - has he been unable to find the US embassy for the last 3 months? Whos fault is it?

[Jingthing]

Just what this guy needs now rotting in a third world prison. The moral police. Its an overstay visa violation not the crime of the century, folks. Get some perspective.

Of course the guy screwed up. However, I think the outrage from us, all vulnerable farangs with very few rights here, should be against a system that throws some of us in jail for these relatively minor violations. He needs help, not lectures. Perhaps you lose your passport and you aren't on overstay and before you can fix it you have a run in with the police. It could be you! What if you have a medical condition? You think you would be well cared for in there?

He took the risk & got caught - has he been unable to find the US embassy for the last 3 months? Whos fault is it?

Of course it was his fault. Water under the bridge now, isn't it?

So he deserves to rot in prison and maybe die in prison? It was a minor overstay violation. Granted, if he is proven to have deliberately lost a passport (how would you prove that) that does sound more serious.

[sjaak327]

However, I think the outrage from us, all vulnerable farangs with very few rights here, should be against a system that throws some of us in jail for these relatively minor violations.

Compassion is all good and I do feel a little sorry for the guy, but I honestly don't know of any country that would not detain an overstayer. Do you?

The visa regulations are for real and it is not that difficult to follow them unless you're incapacitated or in a coma.

Sure in most if not all Schengen countries, it's a minor offence, and the most you would get is a fine (if any). Of course you will have to leave the area.

The crime should fit the punishment, in this case it doesn't it as simple as that.

OP, the best you can do, is assist your friend (fundwise) so he can pay a ticket out of the country and the overstay fine (20.000 baht) and of course get his passport replaced before that.

Maybe some legal help, wouldn't be a bad idea. They will probably detain him, until he can pay that fine, and show that he has a ticket out of the country, then they will make sure he actually is leaving the country (deportation).

Good luck, I don't envy your friend.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

I have a friend that was staying here in Thailand on overstay for about 3 months and also lost his passport. I'm not quite sure what his situation is right now but I've heard from another friend that he is being detained by the police. I was unaware that he lost his passport. For whatever reason he seems unable to use his cell phone while in police custody but can send text messages?! I realize this is a bad situation for him.

So far I've text messaged him the US Embassy(his home country) phone number and told him to contact them. he doesn't speak thai. What are his best options for working this out with the police? Should he get a lawyer? is there an agency other than the Embassy that can help with his problem?

I'm in Chiang Mai so I can't really make it there to add any support. I'd appreciate any advice.

You could email or phone the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, the American Services Section (ASS appropropriately?) and give his name and location.

Or, do the same to the U.S. Consulate there in C. Mai.

One of their jobs is to visit incarcerated AmCITS abroad. They will not provide funds but will make suggestions for assistance, such as a lawyer if required.  Since your friend is also missing a passport, that can be provided after he establishes that he's eligibile for one.  Plane ticket back to U.S. after deportation proceedings and baht 20k fine, pretty well up to him.  They will, however, assist in notifying family or friends about his situation and assist in transfer of funds to resolve his situation.

In Bangkok:

American Citizen Services (ACS)

Address: 95 Wireless Road, Bangkok 10330, Thailand

Tel: [66](2) 205-4049

E-mail: [email protected]

Home Page: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/embassy/acs.htm

In Chiang Mai:

Address: 387 Witchayanond Road, Chiang Mai 50300, Thailand

Tel: [66](53) 252-629 ext. 2104 or 2138

Fax: [66](53) 252-633

E-mail: [email protected]

Home Page: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consulcm/services/acs.htm

Oops, excuse me, I just notice I had the incorrect name for the Embassy section involved in Bangkok.  It should be:  "American Citizen Services (ACS)"

I like mine better.

Mac, an American who's kept his visa situation straight

[phil2]

However, I think the outrage from us, all vulnerable farangs with very few rights here, should be against a system that throws some of us in jail for these relatively minor violations.

Compassion is all good and I do feel a little sorry for the guy, but I honestly don't know of any country that would not detain an overstayer. Do you?

The visa regulations are for real and it is not that difficult to follow them unless you're incapacitated or in a coma.

Russia,Ghana,Nigeria,Belarus,Poland,Cambodia,Laos, and many other countries.

[Donnyboy]

However, I think the outrage from us, all vulnerable farangs with very few rights here, should be against a system that throws some of us in jail for these relatively minor violations.

Compassion is all good and I do feel a little sorry for the guy, but I honestly don't know of any country that would not detain an overstayer. Do you? NZ might be the exceptionThe visa regulations are for real and it is not that difficult to follow them unless you're incapacitated or in a coma.

article

“Overstayers must leave the country and apply through proper channels to return on legal status either on work permit, permanent residence or under the family reunion category,” Mr Cunliffe told Indian Newslink.

“But there could be exceptions to the policy, provided the New Zealand Immigration Service (NZIS) is convinced that the individual concerned has a positive contribution to make for this country’s progress and development”.

He said overstayers who demonstrate their financial ability to sustain themselves and their families and those that are well settled in New Zealand could stand a chance of regularising their stay.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Donnyboy

[chiang mai]

The man is able to send text messages but not call from his mobile, hmm, seems like something is not quite right.

[wadsy]

Just what this guy needs now rotting in a third world prison. The moral police. Its an overstay visa violation not the crime of the century, folks. Get some perspective.

Of course the guy screwed up. However, I think the outrage from us, all vulnerable farangs with very few rights here, should be against a system that throws some of us in jail for these relatively minor violations. He needs help, not lectures. Perhaps you lose your passport and you aren't on overstay and before you can fix it you have a run in with the police. It could be you! What if you have a medical condition? You think you would be well cared for in there?

He took the risk & got caught - has he been unable to find the US embassy for the last 3 months? Whos fault is it?

I agree. Of course he knew the risks. In fact this guy sounds like the guy that came into my g/f's cafe a few weeks ago and mentioned that he was overstay for about 3 months and he had lost his passport. At that time I cautioned him about the consequences of an overstay if he was ever stopped by the police. His attitude then was 'she'll be right jack'. (AND he rode off on a motor cycle with no helmet, geez I mean, come on, if you were here illegally would you be a little covert???) Wonder if its the same guy? Blonde haired young american??? Does Muay Thai???? Mmmmmmm......

Anyway, Jingthing, what do you expect anyone on here to do? Of course he is going to get flak, and realistically,rightly so. Its like an old saying, 'Do the crime, do the time' so the guy will have to suffers the consequences of his actions. Not everyone has a 'turn the other cheek' or 'pity me' mentality that you seem to portray.

No sympathy here......................................

[cali4995]

Cneuy3, i have to echo ima_farang's and thanyaburimac's comments that the u.s. embassy's

response to it's own citizens in need of assistance is "quite lame". if this guy truly is your

friend you might try to see what you or another close associate could do to facilitate things.

you didn't mention where he was being detained, i'm sure with prodding and a fee the embassy

could assist with providing him a passport for emergency travel. i.e. deportation proceedings

Edited August 14, 2007 by cali4995

[otton]

Compassion is all good and I do feel a little sorry for the guy, but I honestly don't know of any country that would not detain an overstayer. Do you?

ALMOST ALL of the Western countries, MANY 3rd world countries and some 4th world countries DON'T.

It's worth adding that if they did, many Thais would be in a cell now, sampling a bit of their own medicine...

[Jingthing]

Anyway, Jingthing, what do you expect anyone on here to do? Of course he is going to get flak, and realistically,rightly so. Its like an old saying, 'Do the crime, do the time' so the guy will have to suffers the consequences of his actions. Not everyone has a 'turn the other cheek' or 'pity me' mentality that you seem to portray.

No sympathy here......................................

Thanks for presenting the hard heart of what I presume to be some kind of right wing Christian. Am I correct? I am an agnostic humanist and I think that is the philosophy I portray. I don't understand the apparent pleasure some people seem to get from verbally spitting on people when they are down and out, no matter if they did bring it on themselves. I do think there are such things as serious crimes that fully and morally deserve the wrath of states. Visa overstaying is not one of them. It is more in the class of someone who hasn't paid his parking tickets. If you are a Christian as I suspect, it seems this humble humanist acts more like one than you do.

I also feel another thing about this. As farangs with almost no rights in Thailand, we should at the very least show solidarity with other farangs who have been burdened by the sometimes incredibly harsh Thai legal system. If we don't, who will? Answer: NOBODY. Now I am not talking about people who have committed serious crimes that are objectively serious crimes, such as murder.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Jingthing

[Krub]

Anyway, Jingthing, what do you expect anyone on here to do? Of course he is going to get flak, and realistically,rightly so. Its like an old saying, 'Do the crime, do the time' so the guy will have to suffers the consequences of his actions. Not everyone has a 'turn the other cheek' or 'pity me' mentality that you seem to portray.

No sympathy here......................................

Thanks for presenting the hard heart of what I presume to be some kind of right wing Christian. Am I correct? I am an agnostic humanist and I think that is the philosophy I portray. I don't understand the apparent pleasure some people seem to get from verbally spitting on people when they are down and out, no matter if they did bring it on themselves. I do think there are such things as serious crimes that fully and morally deserve the wrath of states. Visa overstaying is not one of them. It is more in the class of someone who hasn't paid his parking tickets. If you are a Christian as I suspect, it seems this humble humanist acts more like one than you do.

I also feel another thing about this. As farangs with almost no rights in Thailand, we should at the very least show solidarity with other farangs who have been burdened by the sometimes incredibly harsh Thai legal system. If we don't, who will? Answer: NOBODY. Now I am not talking about people who have committed serious crimes that are objectively serious crimes, such as murder.

You can help and condem.

Humas are a funny kind of lot.

If the Embassies or other organisations were to make it easy to get away from the Thai law (for example an overstay) you will see a big increase of the overstayers as there would be no need to stay legal. We would then allhave to pay by having even more strict rules to stay legal.

Overstayers are making it more difficult for all of us wanting to stay legal.

I do not wish anybody to have anyhting to do with a Thai jail/police cell and if I knew somebody who did I would try to help.

I will also send flack to anybody who knowingly stay illegal or knowingly abuse the rules.

I wish the OP can help his 'friend' and that the friend learns his lesson

[Jingthing]

Overstayers are making it more difficult for all of us wanting to stay legal.

I figured someone would say that.

Let us BLAME/condemn the "bad" farang and cheerlead the Thai crackdown policies in all their spectacular fury because overstayers (or fill in the blank for whatever farangs you like to bash) are the cause of all the hassles, crackdowns, insecurity etc. that we law abiders have in Thailand.

I do not believe that for one second. It is simplistic, sloppy thinking. Granted it is the only thing we can control (farang behavior) but the reality is we are not in control of anything the Thai authorities choose to do. They will do what they do. To actually believe that you know what the reasons are or think that your good farang behavior will make any difference at all in policy and enforcement is laughable folly. You think if you cheerlead them they will give you a lollipop or something? Maybe a donut.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Jingthing

[Krub]

Overstayers are making it more difficult for all of us wanting to stay legal.

I figured someone would say that.

Let us BLAME/condemn the "bad" farang and cheerlead the Thai crackdown policies in all their spectacular fury because overstayers (or fill in the blank for whatever farangs you like to bash) are the cause of all the hassles, crackdowns, insecurity etc. that we law abiders have in Thailand.

I do not believe that for one second. It is simplistic, sloppy thinking. Granted it is the only thing we can control (farang behavior) but the reality is we are not in control of anything the Thai authorities choose to do. They will do what they do. To actually believe that you know what the reasons are or think that your good farang behavior will make any difference at all in policy and enforcement is laughable folly. You think if you cheerlead them they will give you a lollipop or something? Maybe a donut.

My simplistic and sloppy thinking to stay leagal and to try as much as possible that we all follow the rules will help all live in a better society.

The rules are not difficult to follow.

If he was on overstay AND without a passport for 3 months, what are the authorities to do ? A pat on the back a smile a lollipop and send him on his way ? You would like to live in anarchy ? Me no thanks

[tropo]

, but I honestly don't know of any country that would not detain an overstayer. Do you?

Most civilized countries detain overstayers sure, but usually with the goal of deporting them as soon as possible, not letting them rot in jail. If the overstayers cannot purchase a ticket, then they will pay.

Edited August 14, 2007 by tropo

[Krub]

, but I honestly don't know of any country that would not detain an overstayer. Do you?

Most civilized countries detain overstayers sure, but usually with the goal of deporting them as soon as possible, not letting them rot in jail. If the overstayers cannot purchase a ticket, then they will pay.

A guaranteed free ticket home ? If this was the usual way/rule in civilized countries surely the local tax payers would go up in arms......

Why are the detention centers in Australia,Germany, etc full to the brink ? I am not sure they are much nicer experience than a few days in a Thai police cell until you cna cough up your ticket and overstay fees

Back to the original post :

If he lost his passport howwould they know he is on overtsay ?

Did he get in police trouble for something else than simply no passport ?

Sounds not right to me a friend of a friend....told me that.....

Edited August 14, 2007 by Krub

[tropo]

. Its like an old saying, 'Do the crime, do the time' so the guy will have to suffers the consequences of his actions.

Obviously you don't understand the old saying which you've misquoted. It should read: "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"...and the ending which is implied: "IF you get caught".

It does't imply that one must do time for a crime but offers advice that one must access the risk factors before one perpetrates a crime.

Edited August 14, 2007 by tropo

[Maestro]

1. First, the OP’s friend needs a valid travel document.

2. Then he needs enough money to buy a ticket out of Thailand, and to pay a fine of up to 20,000 Baht, plus probably court costs.

3. He will have to appear in court and a judge will decide on the fine (maximum 20,000 Baht) and/or imprisonment (maximum two years) based on the Immigration Act, Section 81.

4. After the sentencing, if no imprisonment is ordered, he will be deported.

It’s a simple and straight-forward procedure, really.

--

Maestro

[tank3485]

In the Uk overstayers are everywhere, get caught and if you are one of the unlucky ones you will be detained somewhere for a probably at the most 5 days, then taken to a detention centre which is full to the brim and then granted conditional bail to sign at the nearest Police Station. You never see most overstayers again................................ (the lucky ones are bailed there and then or even told to attend a Police Station)

The Immigration service/Police/Prison service here are stretched further than anyone ever knows.

The only time most get deported immediatley is after an arrest or a conviction or if there are spaces on a scheduled deportation plane and the officer in the case is very gregarious , most overstayers just claim asylum when caught and it can take years to deport them. If they are honest and up front with the authorities when caught in UK they will deport you asap. Say that you are in exile for whatever reason and fight it and the chances are that it will take years before your fate is decided, thats why so many immigrants come here.

I have seen cases where the same peron has made numerous different asylum claims just in order to remain here, all at the cost of the tax payer and eventually after each claim is thoroughly investigated and the claim list is exhausted they are deported, again at our cost.

I have also known of law firms that actually advise immigrants as to what asylum claims to make (falsely or otherwise) in order that an overstayer can remain.

The Thai authorities make a lot of sense with their ideals as they wish to keep their national identity, can anyone in the UK remember their National Identity, we dont have a single UK culture any more but exist in an integration of various cultures.

The Thai culture is the major attraction and is also central to everything that Thailand stands for. It is probably a major source of wealth also, due to Tourism and they are seeking to protect it. Some of the policies seem to have flaws but the principal is sound. Not good news for ex pats or those wishing to stay for extened periods but it is the Thai way. The system in Thailand needs to be funded better, be a little more flexible and also a little easier to understand, but in general it is sound. (IMO)

As for the OP 's mate, if he is a Muay Thai guy (as wadsey thought) and has been here for a while, depending on where he trained the camp may be able to offer some help/influence as some are respected locally by Police officers etc, but probably better to pay the fine, get the passport and ticket out of there and take a major lesson in humility.

[Jingthing]

So he could potentially go to prison for 2 years for a visa overstay? Sounds reasonable to me! (Not.)

But thanks Maestro for the hard cold facts.

[Krub]

So he could potentially go to prison for 2 years for a visa overstay? Sounds reasonable to me! (Not.)

But thanks Maestro for the hard cold facts.

2 years in prison for a visa overstay is not reasonable.

It is not the case (yet) here.

We have heard that mostly as Maestro has said if he pays the fine, the ticket home it will not take long for him to be on a plane for home

[Jingthing]

Overstayers are making it more difficult for all of us wanting to stay legal.

I figured someone would say that.

Let us BLAME/condemn the "bad" farang and cheerlead the Thai crackdown policies in all their spectacular fury because overstayers (or fill in the blank for whatever farangs you like to bash) are the cause of all the hassles, crackdowns, insecurity etc. that we law abiders have in Thailand.

I do not believe that for one second. It is simplistic, sloppy thinking. Granted it is the only thing we can control (farang behavior) but the reality is we are not in control of anything the Thai authorities choose to do. They will do what they do. To actually believe that you know what the reasons are or think that your good farang behavior will make any difference at all in policy and enforcement is laughable folly. You think if you cheerlead them they will give you a lollipop or something? Maybe a donut.

My simplistic and sloppy thinking to stay leagal and to try as much as possible that we all follow the rules will help all live in a better society.

The rules are not difficult to follow.

If he was on overstay AND without a passport for 3 months, what are the authorities to do ? A pat on the back a smile a lollipop and send him on his way ? You would like to live in anarchy ? Me no thanks

I never said anything about anarchy or the pat on the back.

I did say and do believe the enforcement is very harsh here.

The sloppy thinking I am talking about is the common assumption of cause and effect that you voiced and I challenge: increase in overstayers (fill in the blank with your pet farang foul) equals increase in crackdowns. Where is the evidence for that?

Edited August 14, 2007 by Jingthing

[brahmburgers]

it's going to cost money for your friend to get out his jam. If he continues to space case his way through this imbroglio, he could be looking at extended jail time. there's not much fun in a Thai jail.

Were that this were a lovely world, but it's not. In a lovely world, there would be lightweight borders, 90% less gov't authorities, grins for space cases, and 6,488 other ways to make life more of a dream.

If he hasn't already, he should start a serious attitude adjustment. He cannot sashe his way thru life - at least not for near term until he gets his buns out of Thailand. He's got to put on his serious cap and focus. The authorities hold the cards now and if he wants to get out of incarceration he (and his friends and consulate officials) have got to arrange some money transfers.

It's good he's got a friend like you.

[tropo]

A guaranteed free ticket home ? If this was the usual way/rule in civilized countries surely the local tax payers would go up in arms......

Why are the detention centers in Australia,Germany, etc full to the brink ?

They are full of refugees (usually from 3rd world countries) who have valid reasons (fear of persecution) not to be deported.

A US citizen who had lost his passport and overstayed 3 months in Australia or Germany would not be detained and held indefinitely and if they didn't have the cash to purchase a ticket, then it would be taken care of.

The cost of detaining people in civilized countries is far higher than the cost of sending them home.