On 10/15/2025 at 11:16 AM, Hanaguma said:

The photos I added were BEFORE Hamas decided to start a genocide. They clearly show that Gaza was far from a "prison camp". That is a shibboleth that needs to be ignored.  All you have are useless video clips of mouthy idiots who don't know the reality on the ground, or (like you) who choose to ignore it. 

Huh, Israel are committing ethnic cleansing, not Hamas.

The video clip is from a US Jew who is a renowned expert on Gaza.

 

14 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

And a genocide where only 100 people a day are killed? Give me a break.

How incredibly sick. You maybe don’t realize most are civilians women and children.

 

22 minutes ago, JimCM said:

How incredibly sick. You maybe don’t realize most are civilians women and children.

 

Yes, the woman and children that the cowards of Hamas hide behind after so bravely committing butchery and 

rape.

 

Freedom fighters indeed. 

 

If there is a better way for the IDF to eliminate Hamas, you should have told their generals 2 years ago and saved the area so much grief. Or are you just armchair general-ing, the way most seem to do?

28 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Huh, Israel are committing ethnic cleansing, not Hamas.

The video clip is from a US Jew who is a renowned expert on Gaza.

 

Yes, attack the source but not the veracity of the photos.  Typical.  Do you dispute the accuracy? Have you any evidence or only accusations?

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, attack the source but not the veracity of the photos.  Typical.  Do you dispute the accuracy? Have you any evidence or only accusations?

What source. For the 3rd time I’ll ask if you condemn  Daniella Wei’s, you sound awfully like her. Are you ashamed of what she does.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, the woman and children that the cowards of Hamas hide behind after so bravely committing butchery and 

rape.

No compassion for the 25,000 dead children, same as your hero, who had nothing to say about them, sick lady. You are avoiding commenting like her.

 

13 minutes ago, JimCM said:

What source. For the 3rd time I’ll ask if you condemn  Daniella Wei’s, you sound awfully like her. Are you ashamed of what she does.

 

 

I don't know who she is, but if it makes you happy, yes I condemn her. 

 

ETA. Just checked her Wiki entry. Seems like a nutter. Thankfully very few people share her views.

6 minutes ago, JimCM said:

No compassion for the 25,000 dead children, same as your hero, who had nothing to say about them, sick lady. You are avoiding commenting like her.

 

And yes, it is terrible that so many children died as a result of Hamas' brutal attack on innocent civilians in Israel. 

 

Not sure why you think she is my hero though, I don't know who she is.  Why do YOU have such a bee in your bonnet about her?

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I don't know who she is, but if it makes you happy, yes I condemn her. 

 

ETA. Just checked her Wiki entry. Seems like a nutter. Thankfully very few people share her views.

I find that hard to believe. But thanks for answering.

Do you condemn all Israeli settlers who are in illegal settlements and want Gaza next?

Just now, JimCM said:

I find that hard to believe. But thanks for answering.

Do you condemn all Israeli settlers who are in illegal settlements and want Gaza next?

Those are two separate questions.

 

Gaza is already Judenfrei and has been for 20 years. No reason for that to change, no reason for settlers to live there.

 

West Bank is a stickier issue, mixed in with the debacle of Jerusalem and its proximity to Tel Aviv.  I am not super familiar with the ins and outs of the situation there to be perfectly honest.  In general, I would support Jewish settlements just because the relative size of territory controlled by Israel as opposed to by Arabs is completely out of whack. Something like 98% of the Middle East is under Arab/Muslim control, 2% Jewish.

 

Plus Jews were hounded out of every Muslim country from Morocco to Iran, nearly a million of them.  So I suppose if there is a "right of return" for Palestinian Arabs, there must logically also be a "right of return" for displaced Jews from those lands. Plus compensation for stolen land and property, of course. 

13 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Not 100 murdered people. One hundred people killed in a war. Many of whom were combatants.

 

13 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

 

 It is a remarkably low number.

 

Is it?

 

Well then I wonder why you are not praising Hamas.

 

Hamas killed on October 7 around 1195 people (latest number is 1139) of whom 68% were civilians, and 32% were IDF soldiers, policemen and Shin Bet aka combatants. 36 kids were killed which is 3,2% of all victims.

 

The IDF killed more than 67.000 people with as much as 80% civilians and around 20% combatants. The percentage of the killed kids is 27%  or in numbers 18.500 children murdered.

 

Who are the terrorists again? And which the most or at least more moral army?

 

One might even say that the IDF abused the civilians as human shields on October 7.

 

 

13 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

A war initiated by the government that those people CHOSE to give power, chose to keep in power.  Hamas became part of the infrastructure of Gaza through the tacit or overt cooperation of the Gazan populace. What else would explain Hamas HQs being located in hospitals, and weapons depots in schools?

 

Hamas was elected in 2006 which might be understandable after 40 years of brutal occupation and suppression.

 

Since then no election.

 

And with an average age of 17 most people in present Gaza were to young to vote let alone not even born.

 

I guess we can all agree, especially after the latest executions that Hamas is not a very charming organization interested in open discussions when it comes to political or any other decisions.

 

Now please, would you be so kind and explain to us, how exactly do you expect the average Gazan to stop Hamas from whatever they are doing?

 

Walk over to them and politely ask: "Oh, sir, Mr. terrorist sir, would you please stop firing rockets into Israel?"

5 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

West Bank is a stickier issue, mixed in with the debacle of Jerusalem and its proximity to Tel Aviv.  I am not super familiar with the ins and outs of the situation there to be perfectly honest.  In general, I would support Jewish settlements just because the relative size of territory controlled by Israel as opposed to by Arabs is completely out of whack. Something like 98% of the Middle East is under Arab/Muslim control, 2% Jewish.

 

Plus Jews were hounded out of every Muslim country from Morocco to Iran, nearly a million of them.  So I suppose if there is a "right of return" for Palestinian Arabs, there must logically also be a "right of return" for displaced Jews from those lands. Plus compensation for stolen land and property, of course. 

Israel already controls far more land than it was ever given in 1948, in fact, that’s one of the core issues behind the conflict. The West Bank and East Jerusalem were supposed to form the basis of a Palestinian state, yet decades of illegal settlement expansion have carved that area into disconnected enclaves.

The idea that Jews control only 2% of the Middle East is a total distraction. This isn’t about the size of the Arab world, it’s about justice and the rights of the people who lived in what became Israel. Palestinians were displaced from their homes, and many have lived as refugees for generations. Their right of return isn’t some abstract political point, it’s a matter of international law and human rights.

Jews fled from Arab countries for obvious reasons, but that doesn’t justify occupation or settlement building in Palestinian Territories. 
This map tells about theft of land up until 2012. Israel now have much more through settlement land grabs. 

27 minutes ago, Somjot said:

 

 

Is it?

 

Well then I wonder why you are not praising Hamas.

 

Hamas killed on October 7 around 1195 people (latest number is 1139) of whom 68% were civilians, and 32% were IDF soldiers, policemen and Shin Bet aka combatants. 36 kids were killed which is 3,2% of all victims.

 

The IDF killed more than 67.000 people with as much as 80% civilians and around 20% combatants. The percentage of the killed kids is 27%  or in numbers 18.500 children murdered.

 

Who are the terrorists again? And which the most or at least more moral army?

 

One might even say that the IDF abused the civilians as human shields on October 7.

 

 

 

Hamas was elected in 2006 which might be understandable after 40 years of brutal occupation and suppression.

 

Since then no election.

 

And with an average age of 17 most people in present Gaza were to young to vote let alone not even born.

 

I guess we can all agree, especially after the latest executions that Hamas is not a very charming organization interested in open discussions when it comes to political or any other decisions.

 

Now please, would you be so kind and explain to us, how exactly do you expect the average Gazan to stop Hamas from whatever they are doing?

 

Walk over to them and politely ask: "Oh, sir, Mr. terrorist sir, would you please stop firing rockets into Israel?"

Maybe the dumb Palestinians should stop starting wars against Israel.  

2 minutes ago, TedG said:

Maybe the dumb Palestinians should stop starting wars against Israel.  

Take a look at above map and if you can’t understand why there are Palestinian freedom fighters, there’s no point replying to you. Look up in your dictionary what apartheid, blockade and illegal occupation mean. Sounds like you are condoning Israel’s oppression.

14 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You mean the war Hamas unleashed on Gaza by massacring, raping, and kidnapping innocent civilians in the soveriegn territory of a neighboring country? 

Hamas unleashed a terror attack in Israel on one day killing about 1200 with 3,2 % of them being children.

 

Israel unleashed a terror war on Gaza for 2 years killing almost (if not more than) 70.000 with 27 % of them being children.

 

What is your definition of a war criminal?

Just now, JimCM said:

Take a look at above map and if you can’t understand why there are Palestinian freedom fighters, there’s no point replying to you. Look up in your dictionary what apartheid, blockade and illegal occupation mean. Sounds like you are condoning Israel’s oppression.

They should have taken the statehood deal years ago.    The Palestinian's let their hate for jews cloud their judgment.  The Palestinian's have proven themselves to be stupid people. 

Just now, Somjot said:

Hamas unleashed a terror attack in Israel on one day killing about 1200 with 3,2 % of them being children.

 

Israel unleashed a terror war on Gaza for 2 years killing almost (if not more than) 70.000 with 27 % of them being children.

 

What is your definition of a war criminal?

The moral of the story.  The Palestinian's should not start a war they can't win. 

7 minutes ago, TedG said:

Maybe the dumb Palestinians should stop starting wars against Israel.  

 

Agreed.

 

But what would you do, if a foreign power creates an ethno-religious state on your land, driving 750.000 of your people out, killing Thousands and turning the rest of you into second class people by law while continuously for decades stealing land assigned for you, while the world looks the other way or declares you as an evil terrorist?

 

Any ideas?

3 minutes ago, Somjot said:

 

Agreed.

 

But what would you do, if a foreign power creates an ethno-religious state on your land, driving 750.000 of your people out, killing Thousands and turning the rest of you into second class people by law while continuously for decades stealing land assigned for you, while the world looks the other way or declares you as an evil terrorist?

 

Any ideas?

Take the deal they were offered in 1947, 1978, 2000, and 2008.  The Palestinian's hate Israel more than they want peace.  Now they live with the consequences of their hate. 

On 10/14/2025 at 3:24 AM, Hanaguma said:

Yes, just like Nazi Concentration Camps.

 

Complete with ice cream stands, cafes, grocery stores.

 

Here is the Al Mashtah Hotel in the concentration camp.

 

In a different thread, I gave similar examples of the conditions in Gaza before Oct. 7, 2023.  I could post videos from neighborhoods in cities in N. America, the U.K. and Europe which look far worse.

 

On 10/12/2025 at 7:07 AM, Evil Penevil said:

 

You are misusing the term "concentration camp."  Below is an Arab-made "walking tour" video of Gaza a month before Oct. 7 attack.  Does it look like  Auschwitz to you?

 

 

Below is a travel vlog made for Turkish television about "things to do" in Gaza for tourists.

 

 

Does it look like Gazans were suffering from a lack of food before Oct. 7, 2023?  

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, TedG said:

Take the deal they were offered in 1947, 1978, 2000, and 2008.  The Palestinian's hate Israel more than they want peace.  Now they live with the consequences of their hate. 

You obviously know nothing about those unfair deals.

1947, Palestinians were offered 45% of the land when Jews were only 33% of the population.

1978, what deal?
2000, no refugee return and Jewish settlements would remain, blocking Palestinian lands.

2008, same old ridiculous deals highly favoring Israel.

 

12 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

In a different thread, I gave similar examples of the conditions in Gaza before Oct. 7, 2023.  I could post videos from neighborhoods in cities in N. America, the U.K. and Europe which look far worse.

 

 

There’s a huge difference, people in US and UK have no blockade and are not regularly killed by their colonial occupiers. Really, you can’t be serious.

 

5 minutes ago, JimCM said:

You obviously know nothing about those unfair deals.

1947, Palestinians were offered 45% of the land when Jews were only 33% of the population.

1978, what deal?
2000, no refugee return and Jewish settlements would remain, blocking Palestinian lands.

2008, same old ridiculous deals highly favoring Israel.

 

The UN proposed:

 

• Jewish state: ~55% of the land (not 45%)

• Arab state: ~45% of the land

• Jerusalem and Bethlehem: international zone (corpus separatum)

 

 

The plan gave the Jewish state:

 

• Most of the Negev Desert (sparsely populated, arid land)

• Some fertile areas with a Jewish majority

 

 

The Arab state would have received:

 

• Most of the central highlands and the Galilee region

• The Gaza area

 

6 minutes ago, JimCM said:

You obviously know nothing about those unfair deals.

1947, Palestinians were offered 45% of the land when Jews were only 33% of the population.

1978, what deal?
2000, no refugee return and Jewish settlements would remain, blocking Palestinian lands.

2008, same old ridiculous deals highly favoring Israel.

 

1978 Camp David Accords: This agreement, signed by Egypt and Israel, proposed a framework for future negotiations on Palestinian autonomy in the West Bank and Gaza. The PLO, however, rejected the deal, believing it did not guarantee full Palestinian sovereignty. Egypt proceeded with its own peace treaty with Israel, but the broader Palestinian issue was left unresolved.

8 minutes ago, JimCM said:

You obviously know nothing about those unfair deals.

1947, Palestinians were offered 45% of the land when Jews were only 33% of the population.

1978, what deal?
2000, no refugee return and Jewish settlements would remain, blocking Palestinian lands.

2008, same old ridiculous deals highly favoring Israel.

 

2000 Camp David Summit: In negotiations brokered by U.S. President Bill Clinton, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza with land swaps, and a capital in East Jerusalem. Arafat rejected the offer, reportedly without making a counter-offer. The reasons for his rejection are highly disputed and led to the Second Intifada.

1 minute ago, TedG said:

 

The UN proposed:

 

• Jewish state: ~55% of the land (not 45%)

• Arab state: ~45% of the land

• Jerusalem and Bethlehem: international zone (corpus separatum)

 

 

The plan gave the Jewish state:

 

• Most of the Negev Desert (sparsely populated, arid land)

• Some fertile areas with a Jewish majority

 

 

The Arab state would have received:

 

• Most of the central highlands and the Galilee region

• The Gaza area

 

I never said Israel were offered 45%.

Of course Palestinians, being 1,200,000 people compared to Israel’s 600,000 are not going to accept less land, are you seriously trying to say this was fair, do you let oppressors walk all over you?

41 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Israel already controls far more land than it was ever given in 1948, in fact, that’s one of the core issues behind the conflict. The West Bank and East Jerusalem were supposed to form the basis of a Palestinian state, yet decades of illegal settlement expansion have carved that area into disconnected enclaves.

The idea that Jews control only 2% of the Middle East is a total distraction. This isn’t about the size of the Arab world, it’s about justice and the rights of the people who lived in what became Israel. Palestinians were displaced from their homes, and many have lived as refugees for generations. Their right of return isn’t some abstract political point, it’s a matter of international law and human rights.

Jews fled from Arab countries for obvious reasons, but that doesn’t justify occupation or settlement building in Palestinian Territories. 
This map tells about theft of land up until 2012. Israel now have much more through settlement land grabs. 

Nice map. Trying to show the Big Bully Israel.

 

The reality is different. Israel is about 2% of the total area of the Middle East. The rest, 98%, is various Muslim/Arabic land.  Yet they still want that 2%...

 

The Palestinians lost land because they lost a war in 1948. An actual genocidal war, the intention of which was to wipe out Israel and kill all the Jews. they and their Arab League brethren failed. The Arab league then left the Palestinians in the lurch, refused to house them or give them refuge.  This is Israel's fault?!?

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I am not super familiar with the ins and outs of the situation there to be perfectly honest. 

 

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Plus Jews were hounded out of every Muslim country from Morocco to Iran, nearly a million of them.  So I suppose if there is a "right of return" for Palestinian Arabs, there must logically also be a "right of return" for displaced Jews from those lands. Plus compensation for stolen land and property, of course. 

 

You are even less super familiar with history as you are confusing expulsion with migration.

 

Sure after the creation of Israel there were anti Zionist protests but most of the Jews freely left those countries to start a new life in the only Jewish country.

Large-scale migrations were also organized, sponsored, and facilitated by Zionist organizations such as Mossad, Le Aliyah Bet, the Jewish Agency, and the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. 

 

That is a completely different thing compared to what the Jews did to the Palestinians in 48.

 

As for Iran, Jews have been living there for Millenia, some still do some left for Israel. Completely unharmed by the Ayatollah regime and still worshipping their God in their more than 25 Synagogues until present.

 

Just please educate yourself better before you create more wrong narratives about the forever victim.

 

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

In general, I would support Jewish settlements just because the relative size of territory controlled by Israel as opposed to by Arabs is completely out of whack. Something like 98% of the Middle East is under Arab/Muslim control, 2% Jewish.

Again wrong comparison.

 

Jews lived in Palestine Millenia ago and claim the land out of that reason, were assigned to 56% of the land in 1947 by the UN, despite being less than 40% of the population, took more than assigned to them and keep stealing land since then from the Palestinians who are somehow expected to preserve their love and friendship to Israel and if not ..... TERRORIST!

 

By the way as you seem to support illegal settlement justified by some presence Millenia ago and a promise by sky daddy , how is your stance about the right of the native Americans getting their land back and everybody else go back where the F... they came from?

 

I mean, if they would come up with their promised land by Manitu. 

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Nice map. Trying to show the Big Bully Israel.

 

The reality is different. Israel is about 2% of the total area of the Middle East. The rest, 98%, is various Muslim/Arabic land.  Yet they still want that 2%...

 

The Palestinians lost land because they lost a war in 1948. An actual genocidal war, the intention of which was to wipe out Israel and kill all the Jews. they and their Arab League brethren failed. The Arab league then left the Palestinians in the lurch, refused to house them or give them refuge.  This is Israel's fault?!?

Even the Arabs in the ME dislike the Palestinians

35 minutes ago, Somjot said:

Hamas unleashed a terror attack in Israel on one day killing about 1200 with 3,2 % of them being children.

 

Israel unleashed a terror war on Gaza for 2 years killing almost (if not more than) 70.000 with 27 % of them being children.

 

What is your definition of a war criminal?

Not quite.

 

Hamas attacked Israel, unprovoked, with the intention of causing terror. They were under orders to kill, maim, rape, and destroy. There was no military objective. Explain the attack on the Nova music festival as anything other than cold blooded murder. 

 

Israel responded, as is their right. They tried to minimize civilian casualties while at the same time waging war on Hamas. A difficult task.  Unlike Hamas, who sought to MAXIMIZE civilian casualties. 

 

As we have seen, the killing by the IDF ended as soon as a ceasefire was signed. Hamas? Not so much.