1 hour ago, Mr Awesome said:

22 minutes ago, visalady said:

How are they inaccurate would you say?

These are smear hub videos making allegations which have already been proved false on this thread, A very unusual one for ASEAN NOW., but which was ctiticised by Andrew Drummond when it was Thai Visa.

10 hours ago, save the frogs said:

But you're not the bar owner.

Why are you meddling in how bar owners should compensate their staff?

This is how it works in most bars.

Why not open your own bar and then run it how you like instead of meddling in other people's business?

If bar owners break the law and allow under age prostitution then it is of public interest. Andrew Drummond is a journalist. Its also news.

Edited June 17Jun 17 by Thai-Defender

29 minutes ago, Thai-Defender said:

If bar owners break the law and allow under age prostitution then it is of public interest. Andrew Drummond is a journalist. Its also news.

We have police, court systems, lawyers and judges.

So what is a journalist's role exactly when reporting criminal activity? To harass the perpetrators? Will this bring about justice more swiftly?

1 hour ago, Mr Awesome said:

The video is poorly made. It attempts to use guilt by association by criticizing UltraHost.

1) Let me quote a line from the video: “Ultrahost openly offers DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act).” I have provided a screenshot with closed captions enabled.

DMCA is a federal law, and Ultrahost, being a US company, must comply with it. If copyrighted material is posted on UltraHost, someone can file a complaint, and it needs follow the DMCA framework.

2) UltraHost is not considered bulletproof hosting, which typically are in shady countries like Russia.

I have no personal stake in this situation and I am unfamiliar with the players involved. After watching the YouTube video, it seems to me that someone has a strong bias against Drummond and is unjustly attacking him with false information, as I demonstrated in this video.

Well said. Flowers was creating false copyright registries and presenting them to Ulta Host who spotted them immediately and checked out Drummond's stories. As I mentioned earlier he claimed copyright on a Thai Police issued photo as well as messages from Adam Howell's Messenger App. Howell had released copyright to Drummond. Flowers has tried everything to harass Andrew Drummond even employed Pakistan based agents to harass and flood his social media with porn and threaten him with daily torture, whatver that meant. Amazingly they told him who had commissioned them. although they wrote it as Bryan Folowers. It's all reported on his website.

Edited June 17Jun 17 by Thai-Defender

38 minutes ago, Thai-Defender said:

These are smear hub videos making allegations which have already been proved false on this thread, A very unusual one for ASEAN NOW., but which was ctiticised by Andrew Drummond when it was Thai Visa.

They have not been proven to be false, you claimed they are by repeating what Drummond tells you, you believe him hook line and sinker, to you he has never made a mistake or thrown out unchecked allegations.

I have personally known three of his victims mentioned, John, Gordon and Sean, but of course Drummond cannot remember lying about them, any more than he could those websites he could not remember, then suddenly could when I posted some of his comments on them. If anyone wants to have a go back at Drummond they are quite entitled to. Drummond of course smeared the founder of Thai Visa which was why he got banned off there, maybe jealously has something to do with his obsessions.

Edited June 17Jun 17 by visalady

11 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

We have police, court systems, lawyers and judges.

So what is a journalist's role exactly when reporting criminal activity? To harass the perpetrators? Will this bring about justice more swiftly?'

Well Flowers has tried police and been rejected in the UK. He has tried the lawyers and been rejected and has been unable to present a case in court. And if he went to a news organisation and could justify his outrageous claims then if they believed him, they would expose Drummond. That seems rather unlikely as Andrew Drummond is an award winning investigative journalist, former Times correspondent in Bangkok, co-found of the Observer Film Company after working as southeast asia corr for the Observer newspaper. But wait! Flowers does have a news organisation - The Pattaya News - Oh, wait again! -the Thai boss of that and the late Night Wish Group is appealing a three year jail sentence - something to do with prostitution.

Edited June 17Jun 17 by Thai-Defender

23 minutes ago, visalady said:

They have not been proven to be false, you claimed they are by repeating what Drummond tells you, you believe him hook line and sinker, to you he has never made a mistake or thrown out unchecked allegations.

I have personally known three of his victims mentioned, John, Gordon and Sean, but of course Drummond cannot remember lying about them, any more than he could those websites he could not remember, then suddenly could when I posted some of his comments on them. If anyone want to have a go back at Drummond they are quite entitled to. Drummond of course smeared the founder of Thai Visa which was why he got banned off there, maybe jealously has something to do with his obsessions.

Oh dear! John the mysterious No 2 at the US Embassy, Gordon the teacher exposed by Drummond as a boiler room flunky, and now we have Sean. Who he? Where do I get the feeling that Drummond has actually exposed YOU visalady. Incidentally Drummond says he found quite a few English teachers in the boiler rooms. Not sure I understand the Thai Visa connections and jealousy bit, perhaps you could post explaining.

Sounds like you're writing from middle England.

Drummond says: Ask visalady 'Is he the convicted stallker I exposed?'

Edited June 17Jun 17 by Thai-Defender

6 hours ago, visalady said:

They have not been proven to be false, you claimed they are by repeating what Drummond tells you, you believe him hook line and sinker, to you he has never made a mistake or thrown out unchecked allegations.

I have personally known three of his victims mentioned, John, Gordon and Sean, but of course Drummond cannot remember lying about them, any more than he could those websites he could not remember, then suddenly could when I posted some of his comments on them. If anyone wants to have a go back at Drummond they are quite entitled to. Drummond of course smeared the founder of Thai Visa which was why he got banned off there, maybe jealously has something to do with his obsessions.

I was referring to the the Flowers smear hub videos which you keep posting. As for the allegations you made about two people, one called John (No 2 at the US Embassy, you say) who was allegedly running around with an Alt-Sex-Fetish-Orientals hat on his head, and a guy called Gordon who was you say was a boiler room, you have presented no evidence. Clearly if the Deputy Head of the US mission was running around in ASFO gear he would, as Drummond stated, certainly lose his job. Now tell us what Drummond did to Sean 555. He's waiting to hear about Sean.

Edited June 17Jun 17 by Thai-Defender

9 hours ago, save the frogs said:

We have police, court systems, lawyers and judges.

So what is a journalist's role exactly when reporting criminal activity? To harass the perpetrators? Will this bring about justice more swiftly?

What do you think? It is to report on it. This is particularly important in Thailand.

Drummond has repeatedly claimed he had to leave Thailand because of threats, but never produced any evidence, something he is usually so keen on. At the same time he said he always intended to go home when the kids got to school age, I guess the outstanding defamation cases had nothing to do with it then!

There is a massive amount of anti Drummond articles on the internet, most of it from the Flowers corner, this appears not to be from him

https://www.ukjournohub.com/blog/hired-pen-journalism-andrew-drummond-case-study

2 hours ago, visalady said:

Drummond has repeatedly claimed he had to leave Thailand because of threats, but never produced any evidence, something he is usually so keen on. At the same time he said he always intended to go home when the kids got to school age, I guess the outstanding defamation cases had nothing to do with it then!

There is a massive amount of anti Drummond articles on the internet, most of it from the Flowers corner, this appears not to be from him

https://www.ukjournohub.com/blog/hired-pen-journalism-andrew-drummond-case-study

The fact that the name Howell is mentioned, links it firmly in the same corner.

My take on this, is that you are actually serving to bolster Mr Drummond's reputation. Demonstrating that his methods were effective in taking down certain types of criminal. He seems to be channelling one Roger Cook. I'm sure many of those types hated him too. Goes with the territory. This kind of vendetta just makes him look effective.

Are you working for him? 😊 Is this a PR campaign? ☺️

Andrew Drummond has proven the threats to him in Thailand are real ,,so have Thai officials ...who have sanctioned him , harassed him and warned him in public... and in legal notices

9 pages of drivel. This is all old news and really not relevant these days, so maybe a good time to close the thread.. IMHO.

3 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

Andrew Drummond has proven the threats to him in Thailand are real ,,so have Thai officials ...who have sanctioned him , harassed him and warned him in public... and in legal notices

Where is the evidence for this claim? apart from Drummonds claims. Defamation cases are not unfounded threats, they are legal cases. If his family were threatened then why did his wife not leave Thailand?

Edited June 18Jun 18 by visalady

9 hours ago, visalady said:

Drummond has repeatedly claimed he had to leave Thailand because of threats, but never produced any evidence, something he is usually so keen on. At the same time he said he always intended to go home when the kids got to school age, I guess the outstanding defamation cases had nothing to do with it then!

There is a massive amount of anti Drummond articles on the internet, most of it from the Flowers corner, this appears not to be from him

https://www.ukjournohub.com/blog/hired-pen-journalism-andrew-drummond-case-study

No that's more Bryan Flowers gibberish. Drummond ha confirmed that all these smear hub videos and websites emanate from Flowers AND HIS KNOWN ASSOCIATES.

What outstanding cases? Here's what: A defamation case brought by internetational con man Brian Goudie?Goldie. Tried for fraud and sentenced to 3 years jail - fled Thailand while appealing sentence! A case brought by Drew Noyes, boss of Pattaya Times and serial fraudster, Sentenced to two years for two years for extortion. Also given bail to appeal and fled back to USA. Thailand can come and go from Thailand as he pleases. Noyes gilfriend who had brought a case was suibsequently sued back, convicted and given a suspended sentence.

Edited June 18Jun 18 by Thai-Defender

47 minutes ago, visalady said:

Where is the evidence for this claim? apart from Drummonds claims. Defamation cases are not unfounded threats, they are legal cases. If his family were threatened then why did his wife not leave Thailand?

Visalady., You're clutching at straws.

2 minutes ago, Thai-Defender said:

Visalady., You're clutching at straws.

Andrew please enough. getting tedious now.

6 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Andrew please enough. getting tedious now.

Agreed by Andrew Drummond. Meanwhile here's a few other people who would object to the sleazy allegations coming from a sleazy Brit sex bar owner in Pattaya who orchestrated attacks on Andrew Drummond after he revealed the inner working of a British led prostitution operation in Pattaya funded by foreign investors in The Night Wish Files

‘Andrew Drummond is renowned for shining uncomfortable light into some of Thailand’s darkest places’ –

Shawn Crispin, Committee to Protect Journalists, New York.

********

“Andrew Drummond has acted in the finest traditions of journalism and deserves the support of all journalists for his courageous reporting.”

– Steve Turner, President of the British Association of Journalists.

********

“Drummond is simply irreplaceable. If he is forced to leave Thailand, the crooks will be free to continue their shakedowns and rip-offs, without scrutiny.”

Alan Morison, former senior Editor of ‘The Age’ and founder of Phuketwan. (2014)

********

“Andrew Drummond tended to (sensibly) avoid covering the Thai monarchy, but his reporting on criminals in Thailand was brave and extremely dangerous, and as a result of his work, he also had to leave the country. He’s not on this particular list, which focuses on the monarchy, but he’d be on any list of the bravest and best foreign journalists reporting on Thailand.”

Andrew MacGregor Marshall, author of ‘Kingdom in crisis former Bureau Chief Reuters, Afghanistan.

********

“Andrew Drummond richly deserves this award, in itself a contribution against racism in Britain. Andrew’s articles reflected considerable courage and determination, perhaps the two qualities most needed in any assignments others might have discouraged.”

John Pilger, investigative journalist and with Peter Taylor of the BBC one of the professional judges on the panel which awarded Andrew Drummond the ‘Maurice Ludmer Memorial Award’ for Investigations into Racism and Fascism.

********

Journalists like Andrew and Alan are in the same category as Charlie Hebdo, they are modest, albeit imperfect people, light years ahead of their adversaries, in terms of a moral compass.

Farang 88 on Phuketwan.

********

“Andrew Drummond will always try to get to the truth, will always try and do his best for you, is not afraid to expose lies and cover ups even if it means putting his own life in danger.”

Sue Jones, mother of Kirsty Jones murdered and raped in Chiang Mai, August 2000.

********

Thank God for Andrew and his courageous willingness to search for the truth, in defiance of the Thai authorities and consequently at no small risk to himself.”

Graham Arscott, father of Vanessa murdered ‘execution style’ by a policeman in Thailand.

********

“One of the most exceptional journalists I have ever met. If it was not for Andrew my son’s murder would have been swept under the carpet in the corrupted Thai justice system’

Ernie del Pinto, father of Leo del Pinto, gunned down by a Thai policeman in January 2008.

********

“We witnessed an ‘investigative’ journalist who helped us make sense of the maelstrom that we were a part of. To this day we have only gratitude for his clarity and his analysis.” –

Annie Hansen, mother of Jack Hansel-Bartel, student and victim of corruption in the police and justice system on the island of Koh Samui, Thailand.

********

“Mr. Andrew Drummond, you are one person (the) world cannot do without. Thank you.”

Vanida Boongeon – wife of Jawad Rasheed Khan, murdered in Chaiyaphum, North East Thailand

********

“Andrew Drummond has an excellent reputation both for his honesty and bravery in tackling subjects in south east Asia not adequately covered in the mainstream media.”

Sudarat Sereewat, Secretary General of the Foundation to Fight Against Child Exploitation.

********

“Andrew advised me how to communicate with my government and how Thai Law works. He provided me with important documents and information about the case. All this information I used for a music video clip that we produced . The music clip described what happened to my daughter and was a cry for justice.

CK father of model viciously raped in Krabi, Thailand.”

********

“Your departure is a great loss to Thailand, and I really can’t imagine who will step up to fill your shoes.”

Dr. Wyn Ellis, U.N, agricultural adviser and victim of institutionalised corruption in Thailand’s National Innovation Agency on my leaving Thailand.

********

“Andrew, your personal involvement in my hellish dealings within the countries of Thailand and the Philippines, played a very key and instrumental role in myself, making it through a living hell on earth, and back out again alive.”

Stephen Sharpe ‘whistle-blower’ on Bangkok’s boiler room fraudsters, set up on false charges in Manila. Released after an enquiry by the Philippines Human Rights Commission prompted by articles on this site.

********

“Mr.Drummond was a great friend to me in a scary time in my life I will always be in his debt and he will always have my loyalty.” –

Phillip Bean, whistleblower helped close down ‘Giannini’ boiler room in Bangkok.

********

‘Andrew Drummond just won’t let go’

Colin Vard, victim of systematic fraud involving police and lawyers, and the courts in Thailand.

********

“Andrew Drummond is always willing to go that extra bit just to help someone in need.”

David Scott arrested and victim of extortion in the Philippines for ‘adultery.

********

“For all that has happened I thank Andrew Drummond for his tenacity, single mindedness in his attempts for justice and constant digging to get to the truth. Drummond was so concerned about the injustice in my case that he put his life on the line.”

Kevin Quill, victim of Thai police ‘frame-up’ in Pattaya.

********

“Real attention and recognition is deserved is to the kind men who went out of their way to get a son and a father out of that unjust, unfair and truly inhumane place that is known as Pattaya Remand Centre.” –

Sinita Sudra, daughter of Jaysukh

(Jason) Sudra – jailed without trial in Pattaya, Thailand.

********

“British National Andrew Drummond is the foremost Investigative Journalist in the Kingdom. In 2015, he’s now the foremost Investigative Journalist OUTSIDE of Thailand – he left the country in late 2014 after threats to his family. Drummond’s family was threatened because he exposes the Bangkok Boiler Room Boys for what they are.”

D Farang, author ‘The Boiler Room Boys of Bangkok’.

*******

“The smartest of the criminals use bribes to forge friendly relations with local officials, particularly the police, so they can continue operating unimpeded and remain “undetected” while in Thailand. Their palms amply greased, police and immigration officials turn a blind eye to their wrongdoings.

Police have even been accused of helping criminals and gangs rig false charges against their local rivals and anyone who dares shed light on their despicable doings.

British investigative journalist Andrew Drummond publicly alleged that Thai police were assisting foreign criminals in this way.

For his courage, he was forced to leave Thailand after two decades’ residency when the criminals threatened him and his family with injury or worse and the police refused to intervene.”

Straits Times Editorial August 4 2016.

Edited June 18Jun 18 by Thai-Defender

3 hours ago, couchpotato said:

9 pages of drivel. This is all old news and really not relevant these days, so maybe a good time to close the thread.. IMHO.

The current relevance is that Andrew Drummond has exposed the goings on in a British led prostitution operation in Pattaya funded by foreign investors. These attacks are orchestrated and the boss of the nolw dissolved Night Wish Group has created similiar smear hubs against 'The Exodus Road' an ngo which reported the operation to anti-human trafficking police in regard to under-aged propstitution.

14 minutes ago, Thai-Defender said:

The current relevance is that Andrew Drummond has exposed the goings on in a British led prostitution operation in Pattaya funded by foreign investors. These attacks are orchestrated and the boss of the nolw dissolved Night Wish Group has created similiar smear hubs against 'The Exodus Road' an ngo which reported the operation to anti-human trafficking police in regard to under-aged propstitution.

People that have been in Pattaya/Thailand know all this already..it is old news and most of the people mentioned have not been here for years. And newer expats have no idea of that time, so that is why I say its enough. But anyway Andrew carry on if you think its important.

PS>> I used to always read your writings back in day, and enjoyed them especially when the nefarious expats were mentioned.

Edited June 18Jun 18 by couchpotato

24 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

People that have been in Pattaya/Thailand know all this already..it is old news and most of the people mentioned have not been here for years. And newer expats have no idea of that time, so that is why I say its enough. But anyway Andrew carry on if you think its important.

PS>> I used to always read your writings back in day, and enjoyed them especially when the nefarious expats were mentioned.

Andrew Drummond says thanks but he cannot post here. "Tell couchpotato 'there is still life in the old dog' ". He says that it is important that new arrivals know what is happening behind the scenes despite efforts it to stifle it, like these amateur and childish but obsessive efforts to discredit him. A 21 year of Brit and two Thai cashiers have been sentenced to 21 years for trafficking an under aged girl into prostitution, while working for a British boss and under his orders in one of his bars in Pattaya Soi 6. The Brit is quaking in Klong Prem Prison still hoping his boss will save him. The boss has written off the Thais. The boss was not touched. The Thai wife merely got three years for running an illegal business but was released on bail immediately to appeal. Accordingly Andrew will continue to follow the case. He has kept his website open and still receives calls for help from Thailand. The boss incidentally call himself a gobal entrepreneur and has flooded the net with flattering profiles about himself to disguise the negative publicity.

Edited June 18Jun 18 by Thai-Defender

14 hours ago, visalady said:

Drummond has repeatedly claimed he had to leave Thailand because of threats, but never produced any evidence, something he is usually so keen on. At the same time he said he always intended to go home when the kids got to school age, I guess the outstanding defamation cases had nothing to do with it then!

There is a massive amount of anti Drummond articles on the internet, most of it from the Flowers corner, this appears not to be from him

https://www.ukjournohub.com/blog/hired-pen-journalism-andrew-drummond-case-study

Fake site. If my other post is approved you will have the evidence. I posted all the Who-Is output.

4 hours ago, Thai-Defender said:

Andrew Drummond says thanks but he cannot post here.

An assumption that is not accurate.

2 hours ago, CharlieH said:

An assumption that is not accurate.

Thank you. I'll let him know

Drummond does not even know he can post here, so much for 'investigation'. He will remain an obsessed, hypocritical, gutter press journalist, no matter what excuses his defenders and fan boys come up with.

20 hours ago, Mr Awesome said:

Fake site. If my other post is approved you will have the evidence. I posted all the Who-Is output.

Who is is irrelevent it's the information which matters and it appears quite correct

2 hours ago, visalady said:

Who is is irrelevent it's the information which matters and it appears quite correct

Fake AI slush. Contrary to what Flowers is putting out. Adam Howell defeated Flowers in a public libel case Flowers had brought against him. Flowers and three witnesses, his wife, vlogger Nick Dean Strickland, and Fernando Bauab, the Night Wish Group photographer who provides 'candid' shots for Pattaya-Addicts, all traipsed into the witness box ijn Pattaya court to say how they had seen a video which was on public view on Youtube alleging that Flowers was a sex trafficker and how badly it had damaged him

Two members of Night Wish Group who could also have claimed defamation did not wish to get involved in the court case. They were C.O.O Scott Schulz, and GM Vagellis Poulios.

Flowers posed an upstanding businessman mentioning the Pattaya News and Rage Fight Academy but he agreed that, with his wife, he was the boss of Night Wish which was named in the video, and even told the court he had to take his two sons out of school because they were being bullied.

Lawyers for Howell completely destroyed them. Even the exhibit they had produced was used against them. This was a screenshot of the video but it was marked 'unlisted' which means they could not have seen the video unless they had the secret url, which Howell had given to Nick Dean.

But the video had nearly 10,000 views - How could Howell account for that. Easy! Flowers had hired bot views, easy to find on the net for as little as US$5 per thousand. These views accounted for those thousands. They were shown to have come from Russia and all lasted under seven seconds. There is nothing libelous in the first 30 seconds of the video.

The case was dismised but Howell was given a small fine on a second case, not for public libel, but for libelling Flowers to Nick Dean, who of couse said something like: " I was shocked. Deeply shocked!"

The libel case was initiated before Drummond got involved. The case was not covered by the Pattaya News not because they could not find their way out of a paper bag to find the court, but the Pattaya News of course did not even cover the Flirt Bar raid and subsequent trafficking of under aged children being leveled against their boss Punippa Flowers for which she was on trial.

Charges of fraud and perjury against Howell have been prepared but cannot be proceeded with until Adam Howell returns to Thailand. But I believe has countersued for making false allegations in the public libel case and does not have to attend juidgment.

Flowers may be a nasty piece of work, but he's a dumb one. Continually posting and getting people to post ai smear videos is only damaging himself. I don't think Drummond will sue for the following reasons. (1) He can't prove he has been damaged in any way (2) Flowers hides his money (not worth the time and money spent on trials in Thailand which may only sit one day a month) and (3) he has better ways to deal with Flowers. However, he has collated all the hate stuff and sent it to the CCDH as a hate study example.

Center for Countering Digital Hate - Wikipedia

Just checked Bryan Flowers 'lyng sporran videos' - the most watched has only 35 views in 2 weeks.

The one above had 8 views three hours ago. He boasts 55 videos in his anti-Howell Drummomnd campaign. I can only find 12. Have they gone somewhere else?

3 hours ago, visalady said:

Who is is irrelevent it's the information which matters and it appears quite correct

You posted this here 3 hours ago. Bryan only put it up on YouTube three hours ago, It has eight views. Hello Petals!

You posted this here 3 hours ago. Bryan only put it up on YouTube three hours ago, It has eight views. Hello Petals!

I saw it soon after it was put up, so what, who is Petals? It's about time the gutter journalist spoke for himself instead of hiding behind others, but then he might get banned yet again.

Edited June 19Jun 19 by visalady

3 hours ago, Thai-Defender said:

Just checked Bryan Flowers 'lyng sporran videos' - the most watched has only 35 views in 2 weeks.

The one above had 8 views three hours ago. He boasts 55 videos in his anti-Howell Drummomnd campaign. I can only find 12. Have they gone somewhere else?

I just checked Drummonds pathetic defunked You Tube channels, after 14 years one has 10 subscribers and the other 380, or was it the bogey man flowers doing those as well? Flowers is quite justified in his campaign as Drummond has definitely exaggerated and misrepresented some facts ,as well as publishing details about his family and even his passport. But then he is a gutter journalist after all

Edited June 19Jun 19 by visalady