2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I would say they are.

Hadn't realized you were seeing Thailand through that kind of lens.

Up to you, sir.

Hard to compare cost of living to a country that offers residency.

There are no studies on how much the average expat spends on health insurance and/or paying healthcare out of pocket for the entire retirement.

Maybe govt does compile this data, but for their own purposes.

On 6/18/2026 at 8:40 PM, Jingthing said:

This explains with a good example exactly how the Portuguese progressive taxation system works.

It's still bad but not nearly as bad as I thought before.

www.tax121.com/blog/portugal-income-tax-complete-guide-for-2025-2026-rates-brackets-filing

There is even a tax calculator!

www.tax121.com/portugal/income-tax-calculator

Example: Single Resident Earning €50,000

Assume you are a single tax resident with a gross employment salary of €50,000 per year and no other income. After the standard Category A deduction of €4,104 (or actual expenses if higher), your taxable income is approximately €45,896.

Applying the 2025/2026 brackets:

Bracket	Taxable Amount	Rate	Tax
Up to €7,703	€7,703	13.25%	€1,020.65
€7,703 – €11,623	€3,920	18.00%	€705.60
€11,623 – €16,472	€4,849	23.00%	€1,115.27
€16,472 – €21,321	€4,849	26.00%	€1,260.74
€21,321 – €27,146	€5,825	32.75%	€1,907.69
€27,146 – €39,791	€12,645	37.00%	€4,678.65
€39,791 – €45,896	€6,105	43.50%	€2,655.68
Total			€13,344.28

Until a few years ago, Portugal was actually tax-free for foreign retirees. Under external pressure, they eventually changed that. But I thought it was capped at 10% or something like that for foreign retireess, no?

The 10 percent thing was ended for new Portugal D7 visa applicants living on foreign sourced retirement income. Now fully taxable.

Edited July 9Jul 9 by Jingthing

5 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

Until a few years ago, Portugal was actually tax-free for foreign retirees. Under external pressure, they eventually changed that. But I thought it was capped at 10% or something like that for foreign retireess, no?

That's history I'm afraid.

www.ronalegal.com/en/blog/the-end-of-portugal-nhr-tax-regime-impact-on-d7-passvive-income-visa

Without the NHR shield, entering the D7 route organically exposes your worldwide portfolio to Portugal’s aggressive, progressive IRS taxation tiers—which rapidly escalate from 14% up to a harrowing 48%. Every Dollar or Euro generated globally (be it US real estate rent, cryptocurrency gains, or offshore dividends) must be rigorously declared and subjected to standard Portuguese levies.

Edited July 9Jul 9 by Jingthing

Cuenca Ecuador is popular for very good reasons.

I've had lees interest because of the elevation at over 8000 feet is a health problem for many people.

Cuenca is clearly the best place for most expats but there are some other options.

The investment option is more interesting than I realized.

Putting 47K USD into CDs into an Ecuadorian bank gives you about 6 percent interest, permanent residency, and access to their national health care program. It's all in dollars as the currency of Ecuador is the US dollar.

Is it safe? Probably safe enough and they do have deposit insurance.

After three years you are eligible for citizenship requiring an economic means application and a Spanish and Ecuadorian content test.

But wait. Over 65 and you're exempt from that test.

You have the choice whether to bother with the citizenship step or not.

From what I can tell so far (not 100 percent sure) Ecuador doesn't tax foreign retirement income. Would require local tax advice.

There is also the retirement visa currently needed about 1450 USD monthly.

All these figures rise annually. as their based on a formula of multiples of local wages.

Edited July 9Jul 9 by Jingthing

Looking at Portugal again, I'm finding two interesting things.

The great tax break for retired expats is gone gone gone for new D7 visa applicants.

However I looked into projected tax for my income level and it's bad but not bad enough to be a deal breaker considering the benefits there, especially health care.

But it's always something.

The wild rent inflation that has ruined Lisbon and Porto for so many has now creeped into what were considered second level choices.

Such as Braga which has the advantage of being an easy train ride to Porto.

Not only rents but a severe lack of supply, which of course drives up rents even more.

Not sure it's fair to call Coimbra a third level choice. i've been there and I liked it but didn't see it as a place I would necessarily want to live. Well, even Coimbra to get really good rents you need to be outside the city center.

So I suppose it might be interesting to do deeper into other not yet ruined but still good options in Portugal. But not sure that is so great. I thought Braga was safe from that. Move somewhere OK for now, what's going to happen in few years?

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Looking at Portugal again, I'm finding two interesting things.

The great tax break for retired expats is gone gone gone for new D7 visa applicants.

However I looked into projected tax for my income level and it's bad but not bad enough to be a deal breaker considering the benefits there, especially health care.

But it's always something.

The wild rent inflation that has ruined Lisbon and Porto for so many has now creeped into what were considered second level choices.

Such as Braga which has the advantage of being an easy train ride to Porto.

Not only rents but a severe lack of supply, which of course drives up rents even more.

Not sure it's fair to call Coimbra a third level choice. i've been there and I liked it but didn't see it as a place I would necessarily want to live. Well, even Coimbra to get really good rents you need to be outside the city center.

So I suppose it might be interesting to do deeper into other not yet ruined but still good options in Portugal. But not sure that is so great. I thought Braga was safe from that. Move somewhere OK for now, what's going to happen in few years?

Given up on Bangkok?

3 minutes ago, Rockyroad said:

Given up on Bangkok?

3 minutes ago, Rockyroad said:

Given up on Bangkok?

3 minutes ago, Rockyroad said:

Given up on Bangkok?

Bangkok last time I checked is in Thailand.

This topic is about Plan B options OUTSIDE of Thailand.

Duh.

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Bangkok last time I checked is in Thailand.

This topic is about Plan B options OUTSIDE of Thailand.

Duh.

You sound unhappy all the time. Changing location won't fix that. You need to find the real reason and deal with that.

2 hours ago, Rockyroad said:

You sound unhappy all the time. Changing location won't fix that. You need to find the real reason and deal with that.

I don't think an unwelcome psychological advice OBVIOUS TROLL post as above should be allowed to stand, but because it has, I'll answer your garbage.

-- Dime store psychological advice is not welcome. Think what you want but keep it to yourself.

-- The reason I'm always interested in a Plan B other country than Thailand is because I don't have permanent residence here so am always at the mercy of immigration as are people on retirement extensions in general. Otherwise, I wouldn't be looking for another country. I've said this 100 times and I don't believe you don't kniow that, but instead you insist on trolling away.

== The reason I'm interested in Bangkok assuming I can stay in Thailand is because of the much better options in:

Entertainment/Arts/Culture. etc. (Pattaya sucks with that outside of you know what)

Restaurants (although Pattaya is pretty good with that these days)

Mass transit (baht buses are limited and overall Pattaya sucks at that)

A much better choice of health care choices.

Edited July 14Jul 14 by Jingthing

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Mass transit (baht buses are limited and overall Pattaya sucks at that)

A lot of foreigners have scooters or motorbikes, with few seeming to own cars.

While scooters are not very dangerous, if you ride them for 20 years the odds of an accident are not negligible with the horrible traffic and driving.

Bangkok public transit is a safer way to get around.

This guy does a ranking based of south american cities based on mild climate (and healthcare and safety)

10. Pereira, Colombia 9. Sucre, Bolivia 8. Curitiba, Brazil 7. Vina del Mar, Chile 6. Bucaramanga, Colombia 5. Loja, Ecuador 4. Arequipa, Peru 3. Medellin, Colombia 2. Florianopolis, Brazil 1. Cuenca, Ecudor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VDrQxap3X8

Edited July 15Jul 15 by save the frogs

A new to me area of the Philippines that might rate as a Plan B there along with Iloilo City.

Quezon City (adjacent to Manila) in at least two specific areas:

Eastwood and Tomas Morato.

Eastwood has a lot more expats but not as many as BGC or Makati.

Tomas Morato is kind of a nightlife/ restaurant area. More local than Eastwood.

Eastwood is like a compact organized "has it all" developed community that some say has a feel of San Francisco.

Advantage over BGC would be somewhat lower costs.

Got this idea from Gio on the Go, formerly Gio in the Philippines.

Gio likes Tomas Morato a lot based on a short visit and I feel his tastes mirror mine as he also likes Iloilo City and has now settled in Ekkamai Bangkok.

Yes Gio moved to Thailand after a very long time in the Philippines.

I think his channel was quite well known for the Philippines content.

It seems his Thailand phase is getting a slower start.

His affect is rather monotone and flat but I think he's very down to earth, sincere, and I find him credible. (Gio second video down.)

Edited August 9Aug 9 by Jingthing

@Jingthing If not a fan of Thai's rainy season, you may want to rethink PI

A few notable ones since 2020 ...

Probably spend more time in the states. I would like to check out the US islands in the Caribbean.

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Probably spend more time in the states. I would like to check out the US islands in the Caribbean.

For a visit, but think too small to live on. Same with Pueto Rico, which I loved, but that was back in early 90s. Also has the same problem as PI, too many nasty storms blow through the whole Caribbean area.

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

For a visit, but think too small to live on. Same with Pueto Rico, which I loved, but that was back in early 90s. Also has the same problem as PI, too many nasty storms blow through the whole Caribbean area.

Be a vagabond and drift. Be neat for awhile.

26 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Be a vagabond and drift. Be neat for awhile.

Sure, For a while.

Johannesburg, South Africa.

I heard a lot of White people there are immigrating to America now under Trump's new White is Right Immigrant Program.

There's probably a lot of slaves there needing a new Master. 😀

I know a lot about slavery.

Even more than Elon Musk.

According to Right wingers, taxes is slavery.

Then I definitely know more about slavery than Musk, because I pay more taxes. 🫪

<>

Edited August 10Aug 10 by save the frogs

11 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Johannesburg, South Africa.

I heard a lot of White people there are immigrating to America now under Trump's new White is Right Immigrant Program.

There's probably a lot of slaves there needing a new Master. 😀

I know a lot about slavery.

Even more than Elon Musk.

According to Right wingers, taxes is slavery.

Then I definitely know more about slavery than Musk, because I pay more taxes. 🫪

South Africa has a retirement visa.

Requires about 2K USD a month income so that's kind of in the middle for requirements internationally.

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

South Africa has a retirement visa.

Requires about 2K USD a month income so that's kind of in the middle for requirements internationally.

But it's a <deleted>hole with a dark political recent history.

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

But it's a <deleted>hole with a dark political recent history.

Some areas are actually quite lovely, safe, and desirable.

www.immigrationconsultantsa.com/immigration-to-south-africa/best-places-to-retire-in-south-africa/

Best Places to Retire in South Africa: And How to Get the Visa to Stay

The best places to retire in South Africa are concentrated in the Western Cape and Garden Route. Hermanus, George, Wilderness, and Mossel Bay lead consistently on climate, healthcare access, and safety. For foreign nationals, retiring legally requires a South African retirement visa under Section 20 of the Immigration Act 13 of 2002. No other page on this topic addresses both. This one does.

Edited August 10Aug 10 by Jingthing

58 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Be a vagabond and drift. Be neat for awhile.

For a while, and what I'd do if ever returned. Play the nomadic tourist, for couple years ... but then what ?

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

For a while, and what I'd do if ever returned. Play the nomadic tourist, for couple years ... but then what ?

Eventually settle somewhere, obbiously.

There are some interesting options in Africa.

From my POV, Mauritius is the most interesting.

I rejected it before based on being so remote but it is the most popular place for South Africans retiring abroad.

The financial requirements are unusual but doable for many.

2kUSD income OR transfer in 24K USD annually.

So in other words if your pension is under 2k but you have ample savings, you're in.

I think that 24K USD is quite anough to afford a pleasant life there as well.

Edited August 10Aug 10 by Jingthing

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Eventually settle somewhere, obbiously.

I've peeked on options, and there really isn't anywhere I'd want to live, that I'd consider better than where we're at right now.

Plan B, I"ll never need, and I'm not leaving here, why would I.

I can walk here from the house, or cycle, or scooter, or car, and never an issue parking.

Living with my choice ...

Panama:

1) Americans can get 6 months without a visa

2) Panama Pensionado Visa seems doable for me. The basics are $1,000 of pension income or even an annuity and a long list of requirements. The main points that some might dislike are: 1) Need to hire a Panamanian lawyer 2) It can take months to complete 3) High cost of the visa. It can range from $3,000 to $7000. But in the end it is a permanent residency program after all so renewals or extensions are not needed once it is granted. Lastly the $ USD is the defecto currency in Panama. Planning a trip to Panama City next year and daily flights are available on Copa Airlines from several major US cities.

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

For a while, and what I'd do if ever returned. Play the nomadic tourist, for couple years ... but then what ?

Whatever....... I don't know.....return to Thailand?