2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

OK, here's another one.

I haven't looked into these very deeply yet, but superficially they might even have "Plan A" potential as Chile seems to check so many boxes.

Valparaiso OR Vina del Mar Chile

-- Qualify for retirement visa, path to permanent residency in perhaps 4 years. Citizenship possible. An oddity -- they accept English language documents, no need to translate to Spanish. A long but simple enough application process from months to over a year. You apply from outside Chile. I have no idea why they take so long!

-- Chile is a relatively rich for South America now a higher cost first world country. That means the capitol Santiago is not very affordable for moderate income level retirees. But it's a big country so there are other good options.

-- Highly rated health care. Two options. Can buy into their national system for about 100 USD a month or opt for more expensive private insurance if you can get it.

-- Without a car, no problem

-- Weather mild

-- Haven't looked into the food yet as I know nothing about Chilean food but but both are cities so surely some international options

-- Safety level high.

-- Very gay friendly

-- Taxation -- !!! Much conflicting info. Possible problem. However there is an initial 3 year tax holiday possibly to extend to 6 year. Not sure about pensions, etc. Would need to consult with a Chilean taxation expert.

-- Language -- English widely spoken among younger people and of course in tourism oriented areas.

Special risks -- EARTHQUAKES!

Many people describe Santiago as too boring and not very much like a typical Latin American city.

Special perks -- WINE, You are allowed to work or open a business on retirement visa

Chile is a fascinating, unique country but lets not forget that it is 4300km long - without a car? Only in Santiago. Weather mild? Not in Patagonia. Gay friendly? Maybe in Santiago or Valpraiso but otherwise…be cautious. It has more to offer than most SA countries, I would agree with that, but lets be measured in our admiration.

5 minutes ago, TimBKK said:

Chile is a fascinating, unique country but lets not forget that it is 4300km long - without a car? Only in Santiago. Weather mild? Not in Patagonia. Gay friendly? Maybe in Santiago or Valpraiso but otherwise…be cautious. It has more to offer than most SA countries, I would agree with that, but lets be measured in our admiration.

I wasn't talking about ALL of Chile.

Yes it's feasible to live in Vina without a car and my very superficial search says it's a gay friendly tourism oriented city.

I'm well aware of Latin American homophobia and that includes Chile yet surprisingly many countries there were early globally with legal protections, marriage equality, etc.

As per my last post, not finding a perfect paradise in Chile or anywhere else.

There are always trade offs.

www.wheredogaysretire.com/vina-del-mar-coastal-bliss-and-lgbtq-life-with-suber-corley/?sfw=pass1781872856

AI pabum:

Yes, it is easy to live in Viña del Mar without a car, as the city has walkable neighborhoods and good public transportation options. Many amenities, such as supermarkets and cafes, are accessible on foot or by using local taxis and public transit.

Edited June 19Jun 19 by Jingthing

On 6/13/2026 at 7:55 PM, Rockyroad said:

How come you never mention Siem Reap?

fabulous place and not overrun by tourists.

ill be staying in the blue ridge mtns when i retire from asia

Edited June 19Jun 19 by Yagoda

This second video fleshes out some more stuff about Vina del Mar.

They were only there for a week so needs to be seen in that light, but this couple are very fast learners on lower budget strategies. In the context of Chile, a more expensive option than more usual choices (though there are others such as Uruguay and Panama), I think worth a look.

Some meaty info about the Chile retirement which contradicts somewhat from what I've read before. Not sure if you really need a lawyer for this but I can see that with a good one it would make it easier. Note that here they say there is only a two year path to permanent residence.

www.beckerabogados.cl/en/blog/how-to-apply-for-a-retiree-visa-in-chile/

If you’re thinking about enjoying your retirement in Chile, look no further. Chile offers an excellent quality of life and a migration system that allows foreign retirees to obtain a residence visa without complications.

In this article, we’ll explain step by step how to apply for a retiree visa in Chile, the requirements you need to meet, and the documents you must submit.

Edited June 20Jun 20 by Jingthing

Here's some weirdness. While the summer weather in Vina is similar to Southern California the ocean water is VERY COLD and not suitable for swimming. That would be frustrating. Another plus is that it's about 90 minutes to bus to Santiago, similar to Pattaya to Bangkok.

Some other options in Chile:

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Here's some weirdness. While the summer weather in Vina is similar to Southern California the ocean water is VERY COLD and not suitable for swimming. That would be frustrating. Another plus is that it's about 90 minutes to bus to Santiago, similar to Pattaya to Bangkok.

Some other options in Chile:

Is the weather in Chile not very similar to CA but reversed?

No expat Plan B for me.

If Thailand ever became 'not an expat option', i would probably just spend half the year in my native land and half the year here as a visitor.

On 6/16/2026 at 9:29 AM, delanoalvis said:

I lived in Thailand for 5 plus years, then moved to Surabaya Indonesia. Bali 1 hour flight, mountains 1 to 2 hours drive. Rent a house under 1,500 USD a year. Apartment 200 to 500 USD month

Food super cheap. Good place to live with tropical climate.

Why did you move?

Thailand has all the things you mentioned

On 6/16/2026 at 10:15 AM, Jingthing said:

So you have permanent residency or Thai citizenship?

The retirement visa seems pretty easy to do forever, right?

On 6/16/2026 at 7:23 AM, KhunLA said:

Never seriously thought about a plan B, enough to actually research another location. Longer I stayed in TH, the more it became home.

Just wish the country was a bit bigger, and had more diverse weather seasons. Can't think of any reason to leave, and too many reasons to stay.

No sense wasting brain cells on something that's never going to happen.

I definitely couldn't live in the south as there is only 2 seasons: hot n rainy.

But up north there are 3 seasons which are diverse enough for me: hot, rainy, and cool.

12 minutes ago, NewGuy87 said:

I definitely couldn't live in the south as there is only 2 seasons: hot n rainy.

But up north there are 3 seasons which are diverse enough for me: hot, rainy, and cool.

I need the surf, as way too calming for me.

The air pollution is too much of a turn off, just not very photogenic, aside from any health issue. Really destroys any landscape views, which is a major plus of the north. All those lovely mountain, rolling hill views, gone almost half the year.

Amazing what you can see, or can't see, different times of the year.

Edited June 21Jun 21 by KhunLA

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I need the surf, as way too calming for me.

The air pollution is too much of a turn off, just not very photogenic, aside from any health issue. Really destroys any landscape views, which is a major plus of the north. All those lovely mountain, rolling hill views, gone almost half the year.

Amazing what you can see, or can't see, different times of the year.

Ah, I see.

I am not really a beach guy; I like rivers, fields, forests though.

I definitely couldn't stand Chiang Mai levels of pollution and I am not bothered about mountains either way.

Northeast is fine for me.

1 hour ago, NewGuy87 said:

The retirement visa seems pretty easy to do forever, right?

The rules and enforcement are subject to change at any moment.

Not exactly a warm feeling for aging people who have settled here

I admit I got irrationally overexcited about Vina del Mar Chile as an option that MIGHT even be good enough to motivate an elevation to a Plan A option.

For better or worse looking deeper into this, I don't see that happening now as I've uncovered enough negative things to keep in the Plan B category and arguably even a problematic option for a Plan B.

To wit on top of previously mentioned downsides, some I'll mention again.

Ambiguity about taxation of foreign retirement income after the initial 3 year tax holiday.

Pretty consistent reports that starting with the Covid era crime has gone up especially in urban areas. Nothing to the level of places like Ecuador or many U.S. big cities, but definitely a downgrade from previously when Chile was rated one of the safest nations in the world.

Language. Less English speaking than other Latin American options such as Panama. A dialect of Spanish that is considered weird and difficult even to fluent Spanish speakers! Considered the most difficult version of Spanish and they also talk very fast.

As mentioned, not cheap, no prospects of ever being cheap. Restaurants much more expensive than you would hope moving to "lower cost" Latin American country.

A massive hassle to open bank accounts, get a required TAX id, enroll in the national health care system, etc.

As said, can't swim in the ocean at Vina as too cold.

Big one. The care system. Two paths, private and public. Unlikely to be accepted by the private system and an anecdotal report that if an old person was accepted, monthly premiums 500 USD a month.

The public system a great safety net for emergencies. Cost is 7 percent of income and extra usage costs if income is over a certain level (mine is). However as you might expect issues with waiting times and availability of specialist appointments and English speaking doctors. IF you need to punt and go private paying cash, the cost while better than the US is HIGHER than Thailand. A hassle to apply for.

Worst case health scenario. Can't get accepted or afford the private path. For some unknown reason unable to register for the public option. In that case you still would be treated for emergencies only with the public system but otherwise must pay retail private at high cost. Of course you can't assume the worst case scenario would happen, but you don't know until you go if it will or not.

Mentioned before, quakes and wildfires.

Not even great as a Plan B option in a crunch as there may be a very long wait from months to over a year to get the retirement visa application approved or not.

Some additional pluses though-

You can drink the water.

Garbage is picked up

Banking sites have English versions

Vina del Mar has great fresh seafood and lots of Peruvian restaurants (one of the best types of food in the world)

Well, I didn't think this topic would lead to a Plan A option and so far as predicted, that is still elusive.

I will say Uruguay also high cost might be that for me and others but on top of the income requirements you need to invest 100K USD there. I could do but don't want to.

Oh well.

Edited June 21Jun 21 by Jingthing

4 hours ago, NewGuy87 said:

The retirement visa seems pretty easy to do forever, right

Yep, 25+ years, and basically nothing has changed. Not as flexible, as before, all due to expats scamming, or trying to. But reality, nothing really has changed with marriage or retirement for non-O visa.

Bounced back & forth with both, even had 'support of Thai National' between divorce and waiting to turn 50. All too easy IMHO.

Doom & gloomers spouting 'possible change coming', but not seeing any. During scamdemic, they added insurance, rightfully so, for the 0-A, and easily changeable if having.

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Yep, 25+ years, and basically nothing has changed. Not as flexible, as before, all due to expats scamming, or trying to. But reality, nothing really has changed with marriage or retirement for non-O visa.

Bounced back & forth with both, even had 'support of Thai National' between divorce and waiting to turn 50. All too easy IMHO.

Doom & gloomers spouting 'possible change coming', but not seeing any. During scamdemic, they added insurance, rightfully so, for the 0-A, and easily changeable if having.

Show up one baht short and see what happens.

You're only as good as your last extension.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Show up one baht short and see what happens.

You're only as good as your last extension.

Rightly so.

They don't expect you to have a fortune in the bank. It's a reasonable amount.

1 minute ago, NewGuy87 said:

Rightly so.

They don't expect you to have a fortune in the bank. It's a reasonable amount.

Yeah so someone has been here 20 years and they make a small mistake in an application and they have the same NO STATUS as someone who just arrived.

If you think that is reasonable or humane, you're living in Cloud Cuckooland.

It's also worth noting that ENFORCEMENT DETAILS actually change quite often and you really don't know for sure from one year to the next. Also big variations between offices.

Is it suitable or desirable for the "golden years" to be forced to spend time stressing about such changeable details every year for the rest of your life?

If you think so, sounds like a touch of the Stockholm Syndrome.

I get it that people think residency insecurity is acceptable, but it's as if they're sainy that residence security has no value to long term retired expats, when in fact it has massive value and practically not having it (as is the case for retired expats in Thailand) can ruin lives.

Edited June 21Jun 21 by Jingthing

To anyone researching their own Plan As, Bs, or Cs, and not only for retirement I randomly just found perhaps the best global expatriation information site that I've even seen!

www.rewireabroad.com/countries

1 hour ago, NewGuy87 said:

Rightly so.

They don't expect you to have a fortune in the bank. It's a reasonable amount.

If you don't have 400+k or 800+k or steady income (deposits) that meets the small requirements to stay, you really shouldn't be living overseas, anywhere.

At our ages, surely we've developed some type of responsibility to take care of ourselves and meet the simply, inexpensive requirements to stay in TH.

It's an interesting question and one that I thought about from time to time. Most of the places that I would want to either live or spend significant time in would be considerably costlier than Thailand. Mexico appeals to me but I wouldn't know where. I have a close friend who recently moved to Guanajuato and though he seems to like it, it's a regional town and he said one of the issues that he sees right away is the extremely limited availability of imported food products, and the extreme scarcity of restaurants serving foreign food that offers the kind of quality you would want to patronize.

The other advantage is that it took him one month to get a permanent residency visa, something that the ignorant and xenophobic PM, and Thai officials would know nothing about. Mexico seems to value their expat community, in Thailand it sometimes appears as if they're deliberately trying to make it difficult for us, in an effort to discourage us to live there.

Every place has its pros and cons, and I'm sticking with Thailand, as I really love the place, the food, the quality of life, and it's people.

Edited June 21Jun 21 by spidermike007

52 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It's an interesting question and one that I thought about from time to time. Most of the places that I would want to either live or spend significant time in would be considerably costlier than Thailand. Mexico appeals to me but I wouldn't know where. I have a close friend who recently moved to Guanajuato and though he seems to like it, it's a regional town and he said one of the issues that he sees right away is the extremely limited availability of imported food products, and the extreme scarcity of restaurants serving foreign food that offers the kind of quality you would want to patronize.

The other advantage is that it took him one month to get a permanent residency visa, something that the ignorant and xenophobic PM, and Thai officials would know nothing about. Mexico seems to value their expat community, in Thailand it sometimes appears as if they're deliberately trying to make it difficult for us, in an effort to discourage us to live there.

Every place has its pros and cons, and I'm sticking with Thailand, as I really love the place, the food, the quality of life, and it's people.

Yeah this is mostly about a Plan B in cases where people need to leave Thailand for whatever reasons.

I also prefer to stay in Thailand for the duration but without residence security I want to have some backup ideas in mind.

I've been to Guadalajara and had a friend who used to live there.

She was a blonde woman so had some extra issues of being identified as a gringa very easily plus as you can imagine being hounded by horny macho hombres.

Push came to shove when her apartment was raided in a major anti cartel operation

Guadalajara is Mexico's second city and does have a lot to offer. Mild weather, vibrant regional culture, friendly people, great gay nightlife, gorgeous colonial architecture, great Mexican food, easy to take a bus to Puerto Vallarta.

As far as international food other than American, yeah, you really need to live in Mexico City for a high level of that. In my view, Mexico City is among the greatest world cities, but i'm not sure living in any megacity (including Bangkok) is an ideal choice for retired people.

The Mexican cities on my radar include boom city Queretaro, Aguascalientes (cheaper), and Morelia which might not be safe enough.

I know people favor the beaches for vacations but if I left Thailand I would appreciate cooler weather.

Edited June 21Jun 21 by Jingthing

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

If you don't have 400+k or 800+k or steady income (deposits) that meets the small requirements to stay, you really shouldn't be living overseas, anywhere.

At our ages, surely we've developed some type of responsibility to take care of ourselves and meet the simply, inexpensive requirements to stay in TH.

I think you're talking about something else than I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about not having the funds.

I'm talking about needing to meet the ever changing very specific application requirements every year PERFECTLY.

Such as the seasoning requirements. Off by a day, you're toast.

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think you're talking about something else than I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah this is mostly about a Plan B in cases where people need to leave Thailand for whatever reasons.

I also prefer to stay in Thailand for the duration but without residence security I want to have some backup ideas in mind.

I've been to Guadalajara and had a friend who used to live there.

She was a blonde woman so had some extra issues of being identified as a gringa very easily plus as you can imagine being hounded by horny macho hombres.

Push came to shove when her apartment was raided in a major anti cartel operation

Guadalajara is Mexico's second city and does have a lot to offer. Mild weather, vibrant regional culture, friendly people, great gay nightlife, gorgeous colonial architecture, great Mexican food, easy to take a bus to Puerto Vallarta.

As far as international food other than American, yeah, you really need to live in Mexico City for a high level of that. In my view, Mexico City is among the greatest world cities, but i'm not sure living in any megacity (including Bangkok) is an ideal choice for retired people.

The Mexican cities on my radar include boom city Queretaro, Aguascalientes (cheaper), and Morelia which might not be safe enough.

I know people favor the beaches for vacations but if I left Thailand I would appreciate cooler weather.

Agreed. For me the most unpleasant part of living in Thailand was using the marriage visa and having to deal with immigration, but since I'm using an agent now and no longer doing the marriage visa, my life has improved significantly.

The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses.

The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying YES, YES, you are going to do this. YES, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it was a month, until I had final approval.

Is it worth it? NO. It was my last marriage visa. I went back to a retirement, and now use an agent. It was that or leave the country, before I subjected myself to that abuse one more time.

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think you're talking about something else than I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about not having the funds.

I'm talking about needing to meet the ever changing very specific application requirements every year PERFECTLY.

Such as the seasoning requirements. Off by a day, you're toast.

I went fron OA to O using monthly deposits. It was fairly straight forward till Bangkok Bank changed their rules. I could still do it myself but for the first time I used an agent. It's a bit addictive using an agent, the hassle disappears. No more near retirement hag of an IO barking orders.

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah so someone has been here 20 years and they make a small mistake in an application and they have the same NO STATUS as someone who just arrived.

If you think that is reasonable or humane, you're living in Cloud Cuckooland.

It's also worth noting that ENFORCEMENT DETAILS actually change quite often and you really don't know for sure from one year to the next. Also big variations between offices.

Is it suitable or desirable for the "golden years" to be forced to spend time stressing about such changeable details every year for the rest of your life?

If you think so, sounds like a touch of the Stockholm Syndrome.

I get it that people think residency insecurity is acceptable, but it's as if they're sainy that residence security has no value to long term retired expats, when in fact it has massive value and practically not having it (as is the case for retired expats in Thailand) can ruin lives.

You just have to have a relatively small amount of money in the bank. 800k for retirement, 400k for marriage visa.

These are like low end English teacher annual incomes and they haven't increased the figures at all in......how long?

They have to have some requirements. Jeez. You can even show monthly income, if you are unable to save. What is it, like, 60k and 40k for each of those visa types?

I am not a big Thai lover. In fact, I have a healthy amount of distain for them and their culture - so i aint just licking their asses - but I think their immigration is alright. Better than Western countries and the mess they are in.

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

To anyone researching their own Plan As, Bs, or Cs, and not only for retirement I randomly just found perhaps the best global expatriation information site that I've even seen!

www.rewireabroad.com/countries

Numbeo (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/) and Expatistan (https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living) are goodsites for looking at cost of living & comparing this against other Cities that you might be interested in...

3 hours ago, NewGuy87 said:

You just have to have a relatively small amount of money in the bank. 800k for retirement, 400k for marriage visa.

These are like low end English teacher annual incomes and they haven't increased the figures at all in......how long?

They have to have some requirements. Jeez. You can even show monthly income, if you are unable to save. What is it, like, 60k and 40k for each of those visa types?

I am not a big Thai lover. In fact, I have a healthy amount of distain for them and their culture - so i aint just licking their asses - but I think their immigration is alright. Better than Western countries and the mess they are in.

Straw man garbage.

Update on my current top two Plan B picks.

Iloilo City remains solidly on it.

David Panama is slipping. I think it's just too hot and boring. Hot or boring maybe OK but hot and boring, thinking again.

Panama the country still in consideration. I think I'm leaning more into one of the "lesser known" neighborhoods there (for cost). It's a very big city so there are more options than immediately meet the eye.

The top two personal priorities other than obviously qualifying for the visa and affording more or less to live there are clearly --

Residence security

AND

Health care realistically accessible with inclusion in a good national healh care system a huge plus

Both offer permanent residence.

Neither Panama or the Philippines deliver on the national health care system for expats though Panama for reasons I won't go into here is somewhat better.

However what I really want are both.

Chile offers both but I've gone over the many downsides of Chile.

Another country that offers both is ... wait for it ...

COSTA RICA.

Higher cost than I would like.

Higher crime than I would like.

Locations where it would good to live without a car (another high priority) too limited, but do exist.

I don't like Costa Rican food but research shows me there are a lot more international options than there were when I long ago visitied.

English speaking locals pretty good in urban areas.

Extremely gay friendly.

But on paper as it has BOTH of my top priorities, I think it's worth another look as a Plan B.

The problem is exactly WHERE in Costa Rica?

Central San Jose isn't really very nice for residing but there are non central neighborhoods and suburbs that could be much better.

One suburb is called the Beverly Hills of San Jose but really it would be good to have a budget of over 4K USD to live there well enough.

Haven't ruled out the beach but the Central Valley where San Jose is located is probably a better fit for me.

It's funny because with the retire abroad crowd, Costa Rica is very old hat.

Before moving abroad became such a popular topic in the U.S., Costa Rica was already the place people mentioned as their possible escape plan. They had good marketing anyway with all that Pura Vida jazz.

If you've lived in Costa Rica, feel free to pipe in.

Edited June 23Jun 23 by Jingthing

Uruguay seems like an option........................