7 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Were you there?

What a stupid question i gave you a bit of intelligence! But !! Its all over the papers and u tube also if you listen to the oversight committees if you care to do a bit of research you don't need to be there !! Hegseth quote "No quarter " is a typical disregard to the rules of engagement

Edited June 29Jun 29 by MikeandDow

2 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

Its all over the papers and u tube also if you listen to the oversight committees if you care to do a bit of research you don't need to be there !! Hegseth quote "No quarter " is a typical disregard to the rules of engagement

I ask again. Were you there, or are you going by what some have said while others have told different? Still need to look at what Iran has been doing all along. War crimes isn't when you take your own citizens, torture and kill them because they want change. That's murder. Thousands of innocent men, women and children, continuing to the present day.

What's all over the papers and Youtube has been the same things since news and the internet came around. Biased, lies, exaggerations and truths, and until the facts are out, it's all speculation.

Of course it's a tragedy. An immense one, but it doesn't change the truth of what happened. It also doesn't matter what anyone says, whether it's Trump, Hegseth or anyone else. What matters is what's actually done. When someone threatens you, it's normal to want revenge, and sometimes harsh words are said, threats are made, and nothing happens.

Yes, it's not right to say no quarter, but looking at what Iran has done, how would you feel if one of those thousands was your mom, daughter or son?

Edited June 29Jun 29 by fredwiggy

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I ask again. Were you there, or are you going by what some have said while others have told different? Still need to look at what Iran has been doing all along. War crimes isn't when you take your own citizens, torture and kill them because they want change. That's murder. Thousands of innocent men, women and children, continuing to the present day.

What's all over the papers and Youtube has been the same things since news and the internet came around. Biased, lies, exaggerations and truths, and until the facts are out, it's all speculation.

Of course it's a tragedy. An immense one, but it doesn't change the truth of what happened. It also doesn't matter what anyone says, whether it's Trump, Hegseth or anyone else. What matters is what's actually done. When someone threatens you, it's normal to want revenge, and sometimes harsh words are said, threats are made, and nothing happens.

What utter B/S you are just trolling !! the statements you make are just foolish !

3 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

What utter B/S you are just trolling !! the statements you make are just foolish !

I never troll, and what I said makes perfect sense, and always has. That you're so against Trump and the US, for not good enough reasons as far as Americans are concerned,, makes you think otherwise. That hard prejudice is hard to turn around, so maybe it's best if you just tell us why and stop labeling Americans and thinking what we say is foolish.

Going by what some say has your thinking as one sided, not open for the truth of what actually happens, while mine has me waiting to see the factual evidence, and then I can make a judgement based on that evidence and not from bias, hatred, prejudice or a lack of common sense.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I never troll, and what I said makes perfect sense, and always has. That you're so against Trump and the US, for not good enough reasons as far as Americans are concerned,, makes you think otherwise. That hard prejudice is hard to turn around, so maybe it's best if you just tell us why and stop labeling Americans and thinking what we say is foolish.

Going by what some say has your thinking as one sided, not open for the truth of what actually happens, while mine has me waiting to see the factual evidence, and then I can make a judgement based on that evidence and not from bias, hatred, prejudice or a lack of common sense.

Thats it bury your head in the sand and hope it will go away !!

11 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

What utter B/S you are just trolling !! the statements you make are just foolish !

At least he is right on topic, with delusional insanity.

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I never troll, and what I said makes perfect sense, and always has.

That's the issue here isn't it? That no matter how obvious to everyone else that you've got something badly wrong, it always makes perfect sense to you.

It's a character trait, that you think that you are the one who is always right, never assumes, never Trolls, never skims... To everyone else, it's a kind of madness. One you appear to share with one Donald J Trump, IMHO.

Low value posts have been removed:

13. Low-Value Posts - Posts that add no written contribution are not allowed.

    This includes emoji-only replies, very short comments, memes, GIFs, screenshots, or embedded social media posts without explanation or opinion.

Troll post removed @fredwiggy discuss the topic, another poster’s nationality is irrelevant and breaks forum rules.

Rule 31. You will not publicly discuss other members or post any member's personal information

42 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I ask again. Were you there, or are you going by what some have said while others have told different? Still need to look at what Iran has been doing all along. War crimes isn't when you take your own citizens, torture and kill them because they want change. That's murder. Thousands of innocent men, women and children, continuing to the present day.

What's all over the papers and Youtube has been the same things since news and the internet came around. Biased, lies, exaggerations and truths, and until the facts are out, it's all speculation.

Of course it's a tragedy. An immense one, but it doesn't change the truth of what happened. It also doesn't matter what anyone says, whether it's Trump, Hegseth or anyone else. What matters is what's actually done. When someone threatens you, it's normal to want revenge, and sometimes harsh words are said, threats are made, and nothing happens.

Yes, it's not right to say no quarter, but looking at what Iran has done, how would you feel if one of those thousands was your mom, daughter or son?

Fred, of course. But this was was planned since Dubya (?) called Iran the Axis of Evil. The war had nothing to do with the murders of tens of thousands of protestors. In fact, I'd we hard-pressed to think what Israel's goal was, what America's goal was. Yes, executions in Iran continue to this day. As they do in the United States. The difference, really, is only numbers. Let Iran be Iran. None of our business. Would we like the mullahs telling thde Trumpster how to run America, maybe with a side of missiles?

One telling feature. The Jews of Iran choose to stay there rather than exercise their Right of "Return" to Israel.

7 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Fred, of course. But this was was planned since Dubya (?) called Iran the Axis of Evil. The war had nothing to do with the murders of tens of thousands of protestors. In fact, I'd we hard-pressed to think what Israel's goal was, what America's goal was. Yes, executions in Iran continue to this day. As they do in the United States. The difference, really, is only numbers. Let Iran be Iran. None of our business. Would we like the mullahs telling thde Trumpster how to run America, maybe with a side of missiles?

One telling feature. The Jews of Iran choose to stay there rather than exercise their Right of "Return" to Israel.

I think it had a lot to do with the killing of Iran's citizens, which is what America has done in the past, even though some always look to alternate motives. Executions in the US are from crooked police and ICE, and aren't for the same reasons nor with the same magnitude.No comparison between governments.

Edited June 29Jun 29 by fredwiggy

27 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I think it had a lot to do with the killing of Iran's citizens, which is what America has done in the past, even though some always look to alternate motives. Executions in the US are from crooked police and ICE, and aren't for the same reasons nor with the same magnitude.No comparison between governments.

You dont get it at all !! unblocktheplanet statement is totally true Let Iran be Iran. None of our business.

16 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I think it had a lot to do with the killing of Iran's citizens,

I clearly disagree to that statement. Trump and most of his admin thought it would be easy going after Venezuela.

The also refused that Kurds would help with ground operations.

But what to expect from former Fox News hosts, like the head of the DOD - rebranded to a martial DOW.

The current US admin is (one of) the worst and incompetent in US history. And for sure the most corrupt one. And that's the main reason why the killing of Iranian people by the mullah regime was and is only a welcome excuse for this mess - nicely formulated.

5 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

You dont get it at all !! unblocktheplanet statement is totally true Let Iran be Iran. None of our business.

You don't get it at all. America, seeing you keep dismissing this, helps other countries because it's comprised of all world countries.

So we are okay allowing other countries to torture and kill innocent civilians? Other countries are doing it now, and no one's doing anything about it.

Maybe you don't realize that criminal activity like genocide doesn't always stay within borders. The civilians from these countries cross borders looking for asylum, and have been doing this for a very long time.

What are the countries supposed to do? Some obviously don't have a conscience, and don't care or think about these innocents being killed. Close your eyes and it will go away. Only if it happens here will we do anything. Kinda like when Cambodia shelled Thailand and killed civilians and something was done about it.

What is your business? To complain about America and think that will solve anything? World peace doesn't come allowing other countries to commit genocide. All world trade benefits when all countries participate. If there wasn't any oil in the Middle East, would it be okay to turn a blind eye to them raping and murdering their women and children? Guess it is all about money, world peace secondary to the rich getting richer.

There are people in this world that would like to see all countries get along and have peace. They're called humanitarians. Time has shown that dictators will pop up without any democracy installed, and that makes that country a war zone and not a place to visit. Let this continue and more countries will have this happen. The Middle East has always been a hot zone because of that oil.

What happens when terrorism continues and you're in France and someone decides to bomb the cafe you're enjoying dinner at? Terrorism doesn't stop when you ignore it. Head in the sand is right. America's government isn't taking that stance any longer.

19 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

I clearly disagree to that statement. Trump and most of his admin thought it would be easy going after Venezuela.

The also refused that Kurds would help with ground operations.

But what to expect from former Fox News hosts, like the head of the DOD - rebranded to a martial DOW.

The current US admin is (one of) the worst and incompetent in US history. And for sure the most corrupt one. And that's the main reason why the killing of Iranian people by the mullah regime was and is only a welcome excuse for this mess - nicely formulated.

So ground operations is better then holding out for Iran to negotiate, get their heads out of butts and realize they're also losing money with their actions? Your opinions are noted, along with many more, and mean nothing, as no one has come up with a better plan to end the regime's deliberate actions towards it's own people, along with helping Iran's citizens get peace, keeping the Strait open and keeping prices down without resorting to military actions.

If America would have never started this with Israel alongside, would Iran have stopped it's murdering? Maybe but highly unlikely, as it's no one's fault they are killing it's own people but theirs.

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

So ground operations is better then holding out for Iran to negotiate, get their heads out of butts and realize they're also losing money with their actions? Your opinions are noted, along with many more, and mean nothing, as no one has come up with a better plan to end the regime's deliberate actions towards it's own people, along with helping Iran's citizens get peace, keeping the Strait open and keeping prices down without resorting to military actions.

If America would have never started this with Israel alongside, would Iran have stopped it's murdering? Maybe but highly unlikely, as it's no one's fault they are killing it's own people but theirs.

So now the excuse for nearly ruining the world economy and killing thousands of people, including innocents, was to stop Iran murdering it's own people? How delusional can a man be? Out of this world. Surely you can see that you are clutching at straws?

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You don't get it at all. America, seeing you keep dismissing this, helps other countries because it's comprised of all world countries.

So we are okay allowing other countries to torture and kill innocent civilians? Other countries are doing it now, and no one's doing anything about it.

Maybe you don't realize that criminal activity like genocide doesn't always stay within borders. The civilians from these countries cross borders looking for asylum, and have been doing this for a very long time.

What are the countries supposed to do? Some obviously don't have a conscience, and don't care or think about these innocents being killed. Close your eyes and it will go away. Only if it happens here will we do anything. Kinda like when Cambodia shelled Thailand and killed civilians and something was done about it.

What is your business? To complain about America and think that will solve anything? World peace doesn't come allowing other countries to commit genocide. All world trade benefits when all countries participate. If there wasn't any oil in the Middle East, would it be okay to turn a blind eye to them raping and murdering their women and children? Guess it is all about money, world peace secondary to the rich getting richer.

There are people in this world that would like to see all countries get along and have peace. They're called humanitarians. Time has shown that dictators will pop up without any democracy installed, and that makes that country a war zone and not a place to visit. Let this continue and more countries will have this happen. The Middle East has always been a hot zone because of that oil.

What happens when terrorism continues and you're in France and someone decides to bomb the cafe you're enjoying dinner at? Terrorism doesn't stop when you ignore it. Head in the sand is right. America's government isn't taking that stance any longer.

What an archaic outlook you have !! You have been told time and time again America is no longer the worlds police man look after your own problem at home and you have plenty ! as for dictators you don't have far to look !! i have had it with your foolish rhetoric!

4 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

What an archaic outlook you have !! You have been told time and time again America is no longer the worlds police man look after your own problem at home and you have plenty ! as for dictators you don't have far to look !! i have had it with your foolish rhetoric!

What is people telling me that America is no longer the world's police mean to anyone? If they weren't the world's police they wouldn't be trying to stop Iran's regime from killing it's citizens, nor wanting that Uranium to be used against innocent people, as it was obviously going to be.

Of course we have problems at home. Do you think every American doesn't know this? Why do you think politicians are voted in? Because people hope they'll do things the prior administration wouldn't. They're always picking up the pieces from the former ones.

If you can't see the truth, then don't bother answering, as you're doing this with many others, and saying the same things. Who are you to give advice? If you want Trump to change things, write to him. I'm sure he'll know what to do with your suggestions. Do you think complaining about Americans will help anything? Stick with your own country's problems and if what Trump does affect you personally, talk to him, as I know full well what he's all about. I didn't vote for him if you must know. Better yet, wait awhile and see what happens after all this is settled. I never said this conflict didn't cause any damage.

Edited June 29Jun 29 by fredwiggy

26 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

So ground operations is better then holding out for Iran to negotiate, get their heads out of butts and realize they're also losing money with their actions? Your opinions are noted, along with many more, and mean nothing, as no one has come up with a better plan to end the regime's deliberate actions towards it's own people, along with helping Iran's citizens get peace, keeping the Strait open and keeping prices down without resorting to military actions.

If America would have never started this with Israel alongside, would Iran have stopped it's murdering? Maybe but highly unlikely, as it's no one's fault they are killing it's own people but theirs.

Again - as you also just repeat the same bs:

1. This current government never ever cared about the civilian Iranians.

2. Iran is gaining money right from the beginning of this "new agreement - wich is only for 60 days btw

3. A better agreement had already existed - IAEA inspectors were confirming that, until...

4. Trump killed that agreement to replace it by -> see # 2.

Everybody lost except.... yeah, the rich buddies of Trump. And himself of course. They all made nice profits with this war.

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

What is people telling me that America is no longer the world's police mean to anyone? If they weren't the world's police they wouldn't be trying to stop Iran's regime from killing it's citizens, nor wanting that Uranium to be used against innocent people, as it was obviously going to be.

Of course we have problems at home. Do you think every American doesn't know this? Why do you think politicians are voted in? Because people hope they'll do things the prior administration wouldn't. They're always picking up the pieces from the former ones.

If you can't see the truth, then don't bother answering, as you're doing this with many others, and saying the same things. Who are you to give advice? If you want Trump to change things, write to him. I'm sure he'll know what to do with your suggestions. Do you think complaining about Americans will help anything? Stick with your own country's problems and if what Trump does affect you personally, talk to him, as I know full well what he's all about. I didn't vote for him if you must know. Better yet, wait awhile and see what happens after all this is settled. I never said this conflict didn't cause any damage.

Yep thats all you can do bury you head in the sand !! the truth is that Americans like you can not see what trump is doing to the world and America It is not me that should be writting to trump but you ! America is going down the tubes !! but go and bury your head in the sand !!

9 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

Again - as you also just repeat the same bs:

1. This current government never ever cared about the civilian Iranians.

2. Iran is gaining money right from the beginning of this "new agreement - wich is only for 60 days btw

3. A better agreement had already existed - IAEA inspectors were confirming that, until...

4. Trump killed that agreement to replace it by -> see # 2.

Everybody lost except.... yeah, the rich buddies of Trump. And himself of course. They all made nice profits with this war.

You can't answer for anyone besides yourself, as you don't know what they were thinking in all of this besides the obvious that's actually happened. Your opinion is just that. Their negotiations are so far above what you think is happening it's ludicrous. You aren't there and are only hearing what the media is saying, which changes every day. Trump changes his mind throughout the day, as does Iran's leaders. There is ego, money, power, and very little about Iran's citizens in mind on their side. Look at your own 4 lines. Changes all the time, as this is far from a simple thing to figure out where everyone wins.

13 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

Yep thats all you can do bury you head in the sand !! the truth is that Americans like you can not see what trump is doing to the world and America It is not me that should be writting to trump but you ! America is going down the tubes !! but go and bury your head in the sand !!

What you still don't realize is that almost everything you say about us Americans is an assumption on your part, and false. Again. if you have any ideas that will work, talk to who's in charge. here you sound like a prejudiced person who has nothing but Trump on his mind. America is and will do fine. Thinking we don't see what's going on is ignorance, as we're the citizens. You're just an outsider complaining about things you cannot change. Around and around we go.

On 6/28/2026 at 10:43 AM, fredwiggy said:

I know what's been going on also. All I'm saying is that things take time to see what the endgame was supposed to be.

In other words...

We have to wait until the Russians can figure out a new glib flippant talking point for us to use against the Libs because we sure can't figure out what's going on now on our own. 😂

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Look at your own 4 lines. Changes all the time,

My 4 lines change all the time?

You can do better and try to tell me what is changing all the times.

You have nothing on arguments based on facts. Iran already won, and the US taxpayers lost. Estimated 40 Billions until today. And increasing.

So the winners in the US are... I already wrote that.

Edited June 29Jun 29 by Schoggibueb
typo

On 6/26/2026 at 8:13 AM, Wingate said:

Heck, Donny even claimed the Reflecting Pool was "perfect". Maybe he should have said, "I was against algae, before I was in favor of algae".

Did you see the clip of him claiming that the paint was so strong you couldn't cut it with a knife.

Well, it probably would have been if it was given the proper curing and drying time before filling with water like the Boss told them to do because he knows more about pools than anyone.

😀😃😄😁😆😅😂🤣

Edited June 29Jun 29 by SiSePuede419
Edit for brevity

2 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

My 4 lines change all the time?

You can do better and try to tell me what his changing all the times.

You have nothing on arguments based on facts. Iran already won, and the US taxpayers lost. Estimated 40 Billions until today. And increasing.

So the winners in the US are... I already wrote that.

The negotiations and deals are changing all the time. How has Iran won when their military is almost decimated, they lost thousands of people and their citizens are still be persecuted? Doesn't sound like winning to me. Oh, you're talking about some who profited from this war. Yes, this cost money. I think the assumptions of how Americans think, what we know, and how we see things are too many to count. Iran was resilient. It "survived", so they think they won. It still has control over the Strait, which needs too change if they also want to profit and continue trade with others.

Independent Analyses: Observers like the Center for Strategic and International Studies note that despite severe tactical and economic costs, Iran gained political-strategic leverage. However, as outlined in Foreign Affairs, while Iran may have held the upper hand in immediate negotiations, it faces immense domestic exhaustion and an economy in free fall.

This isn't winning as far as it's citizens are concerned, but again, they are disposable right?

I sometimes wonder, no matter how much some hate Trump, and America because of him, are they actually on Iran's side in this? This would mean they're okay with what Iran has been doing to it's own people, along with many others in attacks. Not a good side to be on.

How long will the Strait have it's hold on the world, with oil and other resources becoming available elsewhere? An excerpt from a writer................

The almost three-year-long regional conflict that started with Hamas’s attack on Israel in October 2023 and culminated in Operation Epic Fury this spring has put the United States and its partners in a far stronger position in the Middle East and left Iran much weaker. Iran’s proxy network of militant groups is largely in ruins; Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, one of Iran’s key partners, is gone; Tehran has been mostly ignored by its supposed allies in Beijing and Moscow; and Iran’s conventional forces, and much of its defense and nuclear industrial base, have been decimated. Iran’s sole victory from the latest round of conflict has come from its ability to close the Strait of Hormuz and cause economic damage across the world. But closing the strait also harms Iran itself, and the impact of a closure is likely to weaken over time as countries seek alternative suppliers, substitutes for oil, and new shipping routes to avoid the strait.

This is not to say that the war was perfectly executed or that it has gone according to plan. But the cumulative effect of three years’ worth of efforts to defang a dangerous and threatening regime in Iran has left the United States in a strong position to solidify its gains..

Edited June 29Jun 29 by fredwiggy

This isn't winning as far as it's citizens are concerned, but again, they are disposable right?

CORRECT 💯

Trump is not winning according to his original objectives.

That's why he had to keep moving the goalposts.

His cult has CRS* disease and has the memory of a fruit fly.

*Can't Remember <deleted>

58 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

The negotiations and deals are changing all the time. How has Iran won when their military is almost decimated, they lost thousands of people and their citizens are still be persecuted? Doesn't sound like winning to me. Oh, you're talking about some who profited from this war. Yes, this cost money. I think the assumptions of how Americans think, what we know, and how we see things are too many to count. Iran was resilient. It "survived", so they think they won. It still has control over the Strait, which needs too change if they also want to profit and continue trade with others.

Independent Analyses: Observers like the Center for Strategic and International Studies note that despite severe tactical and economic costs, Iran gained political-strategic leverage. However, as outlined in Foreign Affairs, while Iran may have held the upper hand in immediate negotiations, it faces immense domestic exhaustion and an economy in free fall.

This isn't winning as far as it's citizens are concerned, but again, they are disposable right?

I sometimes wonder, no matter how much some hate Trump, and America because of him, are they actually on Iran's side in this? This would mean they're okay with what Iran has been doing to it's own people, along with many others in attacks. Not a good side to be on.

How long will the Strait have it's hold on the world, with oil and other resources becoming available elsewhere? An excerpt from a writer................

The almost three-year-long regional conflict that started with Hamas’s attack on Israel in October 2023 and culminated in Operation Epic Fury this spring has put the United States and its partners in a far stronger position in the Middle East and left Iran much weaker. Iran’s proxy network of militant groups is largely in ruins; Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, one of Iran’s key partners, is gone; Tehran has been mostly ignored by its supposed allies in Beijing and Moscow; and Iran’s conventional forces, and much of its defense and nuclear industrial base, have been decimated. Iran’s sole victory from the latest round of conflict has come from its ability to close the Strait of Hormuz and cause economic damage across the world. But closing the strait also harms Iran itself, and the impact of a closure is likely to weaken over time as countries seek alternative suppliers, substitutes for oil, and new shipping routes to avoid the strait.

This is not to say that the war was perfectly executed or that it has gone according to plan. But the cumulative effect of three years’ worth of efforts to defang a dangerous and threatening regime in Iran has left the United States in a strong position to solidify its gains..

You are like a deer in the headlights. Even the MAGA have left this one for dead, whilst you are still trying to spin this one out. So sad.

2 hours ago, IsmeUno said:

You are like a deer in the headlights. Even the MAGA have left this one for dead, whilst you are still trying to spin this one out. So sad.

At least Fredwiggy argues in a correct manner and doesen't insult people with "radical left criminals" etc.

He's not the typical MAGA or Putin supporter.

I appreciate that - even I don't agree with him.

11 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

At least Fredwiggy argues in a correct manner and doesen't insult people with "radical left criminals" etc.

He's not the typical MAGA or Putin supporter.

I appreciate that - even I don't agree with him.

That's very generous of you 😊