25 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

There isn't a single fragment of evidence that definitively proves of God's existence. The chances of him actually existing are infinitesimally, astronomically low.

You seem to be a believer since you refer to it as a him.

They say my uncle is a monkey.

Specifically a chimpanzee

Pan troglodytes

And I'm a Homo

But I learned as a child

Some people are "Monkees"

I'm a believer 😄

Mate, this tat is nearly as thrilling and original as a fresh bar girl topic. Proper groundbreaking, innit.

9 hours ago, swissie said:

One of the 2 "after life" convictions must be wrong. That means, that half of the believers of the world will be dissapointed.

So both those possibilities seem silly to you.

But are those the only possibilities that exist?

Does both groups have silly beliefs IMPLY there is NOTHING?

Before any religious discussion, most human beings would do well to learn computer coding or math logic.

A & B implies C ...

or

A & B does not necessarily imply C

The more INPUTS you play around with (rather than just A or B), AND the more consistent is your LOGIC, the more closer to some common sense you will get.

Sounds boring, but if your logic is not rock solid, you will go around in circles and end up confused and give up.

Don't give up too easily.

If a creator "always was", yet there is zero proof it exists, then the Universe is more likely to be "always was", because there is proof the Universe exists, or at least each of us individually thinks it does. Besides, in a few labs around the world, the mathematical concept of particles moving into and out of existence has been observed. So, "something" not only can come from nothing, it regularly does so. It's a fundamental property of this Universe. That idea is difficult to conceive for those whose minds never left the Dark Ages, and so be it. It won't matter a lick, to believers or non-believers, what actually is.

Personally, I could entertain the possibility that the existence I experience is the result of a bored ASI agent. The idea of having all knowledge, as an advanced ASI would, would lead to abject boredom. Perfection is overrated. Also, there is no evidence that great intellect comes with any sort of morality or benevolence. So a bored ASI agent might create a Universe, sprinkle some greatly inferior creatures in it here and there, and both make them happy and make them miserable. The ASI agent may well get a kick out of torturing them with things like tsunamis, earthquakes, childhood cancer, and then watching to see if those little creatures find some entertaining way to justify the pain, such as "strange ways" or "Master Plan". It would be like a psycho kid pulling the wings out of flies, except the flies don't end up worshiping the kid as humans do to a supposed deity who gives their kid cancer.

Anyway, "believing" is not only a waste of bandwidth, Pascal kind of showed us believing is a gamble, albeit much larger than Pascal opined. I mean, how to choose among the many faiths. At best only one has any chance to be the real one, so it's a multiple choice question. Might as well choose "None of the above", as it makes no difference anyway. Don't waste the short time one has above ground following nonsense.

And frankly, I suspect all faiths were created by guys who were either con men or batsh!t crazy. Even the "philosophies" many in the East champion seem to have been the way a clinically depressed person tried to salve his angst. Then it's no surprise followers at the retail level just took that "philosophy" and spread it like peanut butter on top of the older beliefs we've come to call "pagan".

No thanks.

I'll be bitterly disappointed if either of those two scenarios is correct.....

I want an eternal hell of fire and damnation.......I have a very long short list of candidates.

57 minutes ago, Terrance8812 said:

Once again, religion has managed to turn this place into a battleground, as it often does throughout the world. It seems that’s only what religion is good at. So here we go again with another circular topic that’s already been discussed to death here in the pub, sure to run for hundreds more posts, like the other half dozen like it in the past. Nothing new here, just different packaging.

Couldn't agree more, another day, another crock of do-do,

55 minutes ago, novacova said:

You seem to be a believer since you refer to it as a him.

Him , her, it, take your pick.

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Greed and irresponsibility are why mothers give their children to others to raise, and Thailand leads the world in this.

I think the major factor is poverty, particularly for single mothers.

Edited Friday at 03:13 AM3 days by potless

Nobody can prove the existence or otherwise of a creator.

However, the evidence of the nonexistence of the Abrahamic god is pretty conclusive.

Believers would argue that he is all goodness. But all the ancient texts that describe him are of a capricious, evil, vicious and unjust god who revels in revenge and other negative emotion.

Further all those texts, even those he purported to dictate word-for-word, contain enormous scientific errors which is conclusive proof they were written by men who simply invented what they didn’t understand.

No god would approve of slavery, or of inequality, there can be no “chosen people”, men cannot be superior to women. No god would care who you loved. No god would require or even want you to worship him.

The only thing I could believe was that any god would want you to lead good lives and be kind to one another and certainly not kill unbelievers.

8 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I believe it has as much chance of ending this World, as the Tech advancements we are seeing today, AI, and the corrupt Politicians from all over, chasing the money, influence, and power with no real regard for lessor mortals who elected them.

People need to wake up before it's to late.

well, jeff.......maybe you and me and a few others have woken up to what's happening . i seriously doubt that most people understand or will even try to listen . of course, now that i understand i just feel worse hahaha . i mean, how the heck we gonna defeat these monsters ? ( ask jesus to help ?)

check out the Ai battleground : https://www.thewisewolf.club/p/above-the-laws-of-god-and-man

Edited Friday at 03:17 AM3 days by rumak

11 minutes ago, potless said:

I think the major factor is poverty, particularly for single mothers.

The neighboring countries, along with many African, are all poverty stricken yet no one comes close to the almost 40% of children raised by grandmas as Thailand has. Not enforcing child support here is a large problem.

15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Nobody can prove the existence or otherwise of a creator.

However, the evidence of the nonexistence of the Abrahamic god is pretty conclusive.

Believers would argue that he is all goodness. But all the ancient texts that describe him are of a capricious, evil, vicious and unjust god who revels in revenge and other negative emotion.

Further all those texts, even those he purported to dictate word-for-word, contain enormous scientific errors which is conclusive proof they were written by men who simply invented what they didn’t understand.

No god would approve of slavery, or of inequality, there can be no “chosen people”, men cannot be superior to women. No god would care who you loved. No god would require or even want you to worship him.

The only thing I could believe was that any god would want you to lead good lives and be kind to one another and certainly not kill unbelievers.

God doesn't approve of any things man does against man, and he has his commandments to show this. There is no evidence of no God, but the realization of life itself points to a creator with a plan. None of us was alive back then so the only things we can go by are written words and those passed down, which cannot be disproven. Errors do come from man's writings in all of them, as humans have faults.

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

The neighboring countries, along with many African, are all poverty stricken yet no one comes close to the almost 40% of children raised by grandmas as Thailand has. Not enforcing child support here is a large problem.

How would you enforce child support?

4 minutes ago, potless said:

How would you enforce child support?

The same way they do in the west. Garnishment of wages, license suspensions, financial assets, passport restriction and jail time for those who don't pay. This along with arrears payments.

Edited Friday at 03:42 AM3 days by fredwiggy

10 hours ago, swissie said:

That means, that half of the believers of the world will be dissapointed.

As Islam is 24% and Christianity stands for 32%, and Hinduism and buddhism together only stands for between 19-22%. Something that means that only if Islam and Christianity together would be right, which already is an impossibility, you could be right.

Work on your facts until next time! 😂

7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Amusing that all religious people think their religion is the one

One would hope that they do, otherwise it would be pointless for them. It's called having a conviction of belief.

There is however a big difference in how the religious believers conduct themselves. Buddhists, Jains, Jews and Druze do not proselytize, nor force non believers to convert. One can be assured that none of the 4 will send people to your door on a Saturday morning to save you or kill you if you do not accept their deity.

10 hours ago, swissie said:

Believers of the world make up your minds!

As far as I'm aware 'Believers of the world' have already made up their minds, as have none believers of course.

You forgot Atheism - A godless, nihilistic belief that life lacks inherent meaning, purpose, or value, so hell, you might as well kill yourself with excesses of drugs, alcohol, and pity in an "eat, drink, and be merry" frenzy of hedonism because at the end of the day, nothing matters. In the meanwhile, you might as well get stinking drunk and climb on your local forum and show "those silly believers" that you are their superior. <laughs>

What I find hysterical is that "the science is right" atheists will waste a day trying to convince you that that is no "creator god," and yet they whole-heartedly believe in "The Big Bang" theory. 🔥

2 minutes ago, connda said:

What I find hysterical is that "the science is right" atheists will waste a day trying to convince you that that is no "creator god," and yet they whole-heartedly believe in "The Big Bang" theory. 🔥

The Book of Genesis is arguably describing The Big Bang ... with God behind it.

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

If you'll read why Jesus came into the world, you'll more understand what that means. His path goes to God. His teachings and miracles showed others there was a God. You don't need Jesus to believe in God, but like any other teacher it can lead you there.

That the majority of people on earth believe in God shows how most think.

There are also reasons people become atheists, and it comes from suffering a loss of some kind, a disbelief in God without evidence besides what we see daily, and that many people suffer things and why would a God allow this. The existence of evil is him allowing us free will, and with that evil can come, especially if you're grown up seeing evil things in your own home. The main thing is that no matter what anyone suffers, and we all do, 85 or so years can't be compared to forever.

"That the majority of people on earth believe in God shows how most think."

or

That the majority of people on earth believe in God shows that most don't think.

Just now, cdemundo said:

"That the majority of people on earth believe in God shows how most think."

or

That the majority of people on earth believe in God shows that most don't think.

I'm thinking it's the former of course, as it does come down to common sense. No one has ever explained that the universe and all that's in it came from nothing, along with the fact that all life exists only on this planet in out solar system, and that everything life needs is here in one place. Just a random thing? Nah.

46 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

As far as I'm aware 'Believers of the world' have already made up their minds, as have none believers of course.

Yes, and some try hard to convince others there isn't a God, which isn't going to happen, so it's best not to argue so strongly that there isn't a God. When the atheists pass, they'll see for themselves, as will the believers.

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm thinking it's the former of course, as it does come down to common sense. No one has ever explained that the universe and all that's in it came from nothing, along with the fact that all life exists only on this planet in out solar system, and that everything life needs is here in one place. Just a random thing? Nah.

The reason life is here is as you stated, because everything life needs is here in one place.

It's a circular argument.

I'm not anti-religious, believe to your heart's content.

But when you trot out silly arguments you can expect a response.

Almost all religious arguments are circular.

For instance,

So you believe a guy rose from the dead?

No, I believe Jesus rose from the dead and he is exceptional.

Why is he exceptional?

Well duh, because he rose from the dead.

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, and some try hard to convince others there isn't a God, which isn't going to happen, so it's best not to argue so strongly that there isn't a God. When the atheists pass, they'll see for themselves, as will the believers.

Up to press nobody has returned to confirm or deny that scenario I wonder why, as I suppose you do.

50 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

One would hope that they do, otherwise it would be pointless for them. It's called having a conviction of belief.

There is however a big difference in how the religious believers conduct themselves. Buddhists, Jains, Jews and Druze do not proselytize, nor force non believers to convert. One can be assured that none of the 4 will send people to your door on a Saturday morning to save you or kill you if you do not accept their deity.

No one's forcing anyone to convert. Spreading the word is one thing, but force never works in most things, as people have their own minds to decide what they think is the right way to go. Worst case scenario is there isn't a God, so those converted will just see nothing when they die. It doesn't harm anyone being a believer, and just might make some not do things they might have if they didn't believe in God and his laws.

1 minute ago, cdemundo said:

The reason life is here is as you stated, because everything life needs is here in one place.

It's a circular argument.

I'm not anti-religious, believe to your heart's content.

But when you trot out silly arguments you can expect a response.

Almost all religious arguments are circular.

For instance,

So you believe a guy rose from the dead?

No, I believe Jesus rose from the dead and he is exceptional.

Why is he exceptional?

Well duh, because he rose from the dead.

But I can say you're the one trotting out silly arguments as well. All atheist arguments are also much the same. That there is no proof God exists. i say life itself proves he does, as life cannot come from nothing but a creation, especially as diverse as life is. There are many situations that have happened when children themselves have died and gone to heaven and then came back, telling of things they couldn't have know otherwise, as well as adults doing the same.

The 72 virgins thing is one hella carrot to dangle.

Would readily convert if the virg's were Guaranteed to be 3 holers.

Be just my luck they only 2 holers and aint no chance am I gunna start batting for the other team.

Edited Friday at 04:57 AM3 days by Ralf001

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Up to press nobody has returned to confirm or deny that scenario I wonder why, as I suppose you do.

You mean besides the thousands of people who were clinically dead and came back telling of a heaven? Including the Myanmar monk who was dead three days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7cR_v5u59M, said he went to hell, and came back, along with others.............https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ybLN7y61qM&t=432s

Edited Friday at 05:03 AM3 days by fredwiggy