Income Source Must Be From Pension?

[frankrimmer]

Hi all

Could someone please advise on the following;

I am a contract Engineer normally working around the Middle East / Asia where ever I can find suitable projects.

I am hoping to take up the retirement visa option when I reach 50, in about 18 months time, although I still intend to work.

My question is regarding the 65K declared income that is confirmed by the embassy, must this income come from a pension source or is it irrelevent so long as you have the required monthly funds coming in??

regards

Frank

[roietjimmy]

Hi all

Could someone please advise on the following;

I am a contract Engineer normally working around the Middle East / Asia where ever I can find suitable projects.

I am hoping to take up the retirement visa option when I reach 50, in about 18 months time, although I still intend to work.

My question is regarding the 65K declared income that is confirmed by the embassy, must this income come from a pension source or is it irrelevent so long as you have the required monthly funds coming in??

regards

Frank

As long as you have a notorized/certified letter from your embassy stating your monthly income (at least 65,000) you will qualify. The income can come from any source such as your salary, interest on savings/investments, rental from real estate, etc. The time and process to get the letter from your embassy depends on your citizenship.

[JonnieB]

yes, it's ilrelevant as to source. as long as it's regular.

[Maestro]

You are not asked to show evidence of money transferred into your account in Thailand. It is all about evidence of income only. Therefore, if you have no income and were thinking about living on your savings, this does not work for an extension based on income. You would have to use the other route, based on minimum 800k in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to application for extension.

--

Maestro

[Jingthing]

You are not asked to show evidence of money transferred into your account in Thailand. It is all about evidence of income only. Therefore, if you have no income and were thinking about living on your savings, this does not work for an extension based on income. You would have to use the other route, based on minimum 800k in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to application for extension.

--

Maestro

There was some discussion before that a person who lives off investments can indeed call this income if they do something this. Say a retiree has stock market investments. Every year he sells 15K dollars of these investments and of course this could be documented if needed. Can't that retiree assuming he can get an embassy letter claim 15K USD INCOME per year for visa purposes? Previously, people have said, yes you can. Seems like a grey area to me. If you sell off your assets, stocks, bonds, land, whatever, that is in an abstract way your income for the year. Its a little different than just withdrawing money from a savings account. Now I know interest and dividend income would be fine to use, but what about selling your principle? How about it?

Edited September 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[roietjimmy]

You are not asked to show evidence of money transferred into your account in Thailand. It is all about evidence of income only. Therefore, if you have no income and were thinking about living on your savings, this does not work for an extension based on income. You would have to use the other route, based on minimum 800k in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to application for extension.

--

Maestro

There was some discussion before that a person who lives off investments can indeed call this income if they do something this. Say a retiree has stock market investments. Every year he sells 15K dollars of these investments and of course this could be documented if needed. Can't that retiree assuming he can get an embassy letter claim 15K USD INCOME per year for visa purposes? Previously, people have said, yes you can. Seems like a grey area to me. If you sell off your assets, stocks, bonds, land, whatever, that is in an abstract way your income for the year. Its a little different than just withdrawing money from a savings account. Now I know interest and dividend income would be fine to use, but what about selling your principle? How about it?

You mention USD 15K. Given the current exchage rate you would need approx USD 24K for the year. As you use USD in your comment, I assume you are a US Citizen. If so, the US Embassy will allow you to use any form of income you receive on a monthly basis and notorize a letter confirming this.

[Jingthing]

You are not asked to show evidence of money transferred into your account in Thailand. It is all about evidence of income only. Therefore, if you have no income and were thinking about living on your savings, this does not work for an extension based on income. You would have to use the other route, based on minimum 800k in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to application for extension.

--

Maestro

There was some discussion before that a person who lives off investments can indeed call this income if they do something this. Say a retiree has stock market investments. Every year he sells 15K dollars of these investments and of course this could be documented if needed. Can't that retiree assuming he can get an embassy letter claim 15K USD INCOME per year for visa purposes? Previously, people have said, yes you can. Seems like a grey area to me. If you sell off your assets, stocks, bonds, land, whatever, that is in an abstract way your income for the year. Its a little different than just withdrawing money from a savings account. Now I know interest and dividend income would be fine to use, but what about selling your principle? How about it?

You mention USD 15K. Given the current exchage rate you would need approx USD 24K for the year. As you use USD in your comment, I assume you are a US Citizen. If so, the US Embassy will allow you to use any form of income you receive on a monthly basis and notorize a letter confirming this.

In that case, the balance would be in the bank account, as you can use a mix of income and bank account.

Yes, I know the US embassy will supply a letter based on your word.

The issue is if/when (and it does happen) immigration decides to ask for documentation. Would they or would they not accept selling investments such as stocks as qualified income?

[roietjimmy]

The issue is if/when (and it does happen) immigration decides to ask for documentation. Would they or would they not accept selling investments such as stocks as qualified income?

I can only speculate so please don't "take this to the bank" no pun intended As previously said, at this time Immigration doesn't care about the source of the income (assuming not from employment in Thailand).

If you show proof of assets worth X and "intend" to sell them off month by month as needed to qualify for the 65,000 baht income option, they will not issue the visa or extend it. They would tell you to sell 800,000 baht of your assets and deposit in your bank account to qualify on the annual income option.

If for whatever reason, immigration does decide to verify your "notarized income letter" during the period of your visa/extension, you could have a problem with the selling month to month plan. However, if your bank records show a history of 65,000 baht deposits every month you might get by.

While I understand the many reasons you are reluctant to go the 800,000 baht per year option, it carries the least amount of risk in getting crossed up with immigration.

[chinthee]

You are not asked to show evidence of money transferred into your account in Thailand. It is all about evidence of income only. Therefore, if you have no income and were thinking about living on your savings, this does not work for an extension based on income. You would have to use the other route, based on minimum 800k in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to application for extension.

--

Maestro

There was some discussion before that a person who lives off investments can indeed call this income if they do something this. Say a retiree has stock market investments. Every year he sells 15K dollars of these investments and of course this could be documented if needed. Can't that retiree assuming he can get an embassy letter claim 15K USD INCOME per year for visa purposes? Previously, people have said, yes you can. Seems like a grey area to me. If you sell off your assets, stocks, bonds, land, whatever, that is in an abstract way your income for the year. Its a little different than just withdrawing money from a savings account. Now I know interest and dividend income would be fine to use, but what about selling your principle? How about it?

You mention USD 15K. Given the current exchage rate you would need approx USD 24K for the year. As you use USD in your comment, I assume you are a US Citizen. If so, the US Embassy will allow you to use any form of income you receive on a monthly basis and notorize a letter confirming this.

In that case, the balance would be in the bank account, as you can use a mix of income and bank account.

Yes, I know the US embassy will supply a letter based on your word.

The issue is if/when (and it does happen) immigration decides to ask for documentation. Would they or would they not accept selling investments such as stocks as qualified income?

I just renewed my stay this week at Bangkok head office. They require a NEW embassy letter every year, and clearly told me that. I showed up with last year's copy as an experiment and had to go to the embassy to get a new one. Furthermore, I have always showed them 3 months copies of my Bangkok Bank savings passbook. They always append this to the package, but DID NOT look at the book itself, though I bought it. They never ask where the money comes from, you only have to show that it is regular and ongoing, could even be paid quarterly I suppose, but they are quite happy if you have a Thai savings passbook to show.

Very simple really, especially with a US embassy letter and regular deposits into a Thailand savings account. No questions whatsoever.

[roietjimmy]

You are not asked to show evidence of money transferred into your account in Thailand. It is all about evidence of income only. Therefore, if you have no income and were thinking about living on your savings, this does not work for an extension based on income. You would have to use the other route, based on minimum 800k in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to application for extension.

--

Maestro

There was some discussion before that a person who lives off investments can indeed call this income if they do something this. Say a retiree has stock market investments. Every year he sells 15K dollars of these investments and of course this could be documented if needed. Can't that retiree assuming he can get an embassy letter claim 15K USD INCOME per year for visa purposes? Previously, people have said, yes you can. Seems like a grey area to me. If you sell off your assets, stocks, bonds, land, whatever, that is in an abstract way your income for the year. Its a little different than just withdrawing money from a savings account. Now I know interest and dividend income would be fine to use, but what about selling your principle? How about it?

You mention USD 15K. Given the current exchage rate you would need approx USD 24K for the year. As you use USD in your comment, I assume you are a US Citizen. If so, the US Embassy will allow you to use any form of income you receive on a monthly basis and notorize a letter confirming this.

In that case, the balance would be in the bank account, as you can use a mix of income and bank account.

Yes, I know the US embassy will supply a letter based on your word.

The issue is if/when (and it does happen) immigration decides to ask for documentation. Would they or would they not accept selling investments such as stocks as qualified income?

I just renewed my stay this week at Bangkok head office. They require a NEW embassy letter every year, and clearly told me that. I showed up with last year's copy as an experiment and had to go to the embassy to get a new one. Furthermore, I have always showed them 3 months copies of my Bangkok Bank savings passbook. They always append this to the package, but DID NOT look at the book itself, though I bought it. They never ask where the money comes from, you only have to show that it is regular and ongoing, could even be paid quarterly I suppose, but they are quite happy if you have a Thai savings passbook to show.

Very simple really, especially with a US embassy letter and regular deposits into a Thailand savings account. No questions whatsoever.

Sorry chintee. I couldn't resist comment on this typo. "though I bought it"

[chinthee]

You are not asked to show evidence of money transferred into your account in Thailand. It is all about evidence of income only. Therefore, if you have no income and were thinking about living on your savings, this does not work for an extension based on income. You would have to use the other route, based on minimum 800k in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to application for extension.

--

Maestro

There was some discussion before that a person who lives off investments can indeed call this income if they do something this. Say a retiree has stock market investments. Every year he sells 15K dollars of these investments and of course this could be documented if needed. Can't that retiree assuming he can get an embassy letter claim 15K USD INCOME per year for visa purposes? Previously, people have said, yes you can. Seems like a grey area to me. If you sell off your assets, stocks, bonds, land, whatever, that is in an abstract way your income for the year. Its a little different than just withdrawing money from a savings account. Now I know interest and dividend income would be fine to use, but what about selling your principle? How about it?

You mention USD 15K. Given the current exchage rate you would need approx USD 24K for the year. As you use USD in your comment, I assume you are a US Citizen. If so, the US Embassy will allow you to use any form of income you receive on a monthly basis and notorize a letter confirming this.

In that case, the balance would be in the bank account, as you can use a mix of income and bank account.

Yes, I know the US embassy will supply a letter based on your word.

The issue is if/when (and it does happen) immigration decides to ask for documentation. Would they or would they not accept selling investments such as stocks as qualified income?

I just renewed my stay this week at Bangkok head office. They require a NEW embassy letter every year, and clearly told me that. I showed up with last year's copy as an experiment and had to go to the embassy to get a new one. Furthermore, I have always showed them 3 months copies of my Bangkok Bank savings passbook. They always append this to the package, but DID NOT look at the book itself, though I bought it. They never ask where the money comes from, you only have to show that it is regular and ongoing, could even be paid quarterly I suppose, but they are quite happy if you have a Thai savings passbook to show.

Very simple really, especially with a US embassy letter and regular deposits into a Thailand savings account. No questions whatsoever.

Sorry chintee. I couldn't resist comment on this typo. "though I bought it"

Yup, I just saw my typo....hey, what if it wasn't a typo???

[Jingthing]

If you show proof of assets worth X and "intend" to sell them off month by month as needed to qualify for the 65,000 baht income option, they will not issue the visa or extend it. They would tell you to sell 800,000 baht of your assets and deposit in your bank account to qualify on the annual income option.

Not really what I meant. The scenario would be if you actually did periodically sell a set amount of stocks and could show the documentation about the sales if asked. I understand they aren't usually asking now, but they could. I am using the 800K method now but I really do not like the 3 month money seasoning rule, so if you show any income, you are exempt from that rule.

Here is another scenario that I know some harsh people will suggest is abusive and rule twisting, but so be it.

Lets say you do have verifiable income via interest and dividends of a low amount such as 60K baht per year. Of course you could get an embassy letter for that and make up the balance with a bank account. Is there a low end threshold of the amount of income for the three month money seasoning rule to not to be applied, (and clearly if there is a low amount like 60K baht a year would be pushing it)? Yes, I am looking for a way out of the three month money seasoning rule. I think it is ridiculous and harsh and is designed to screen out people using short term loans which I would never do, and I want to avoid it, so sue me ...

Edited September 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[roietjimmy]

If you show proof of assets worth X and "intend" to sell them off month by month as needed to qualify for the 65,000 baht income option, they will not issue the visa or extend it. They would tell you to sell 800,000 baht of your assets and deposit in your bank account to qualify on the annual income option.

Not really what I meant. The scenario would be if you actually did periodically sell a set amount of stocks and could show the documentation about the sales if asked. I understand they aren't usually asking now, but they could. I am using the 800K method now but I really do not like the 3 month money seasoning rule, so if you show any income, you are exempt from that rule.

Here is another scenario that I know some harsh people will suggest is abusive and rule twisting, but so be it.

Lets say you do have verifiable income via interest and dividends of a low amount such as 60K baht per year. Of course you could get an embassy letter for that and make up the balance with a bank account. Is there a low end threshold of the amount of income for the three month money seasoning rule to not to be applied, (and clearly if there is a low amount like 60K baht a year would be pushing it)? Yes, I am looking for a way out of the three month money seasoning rule. I think it is ridiculous and harsh and is designed to screen out people using short term loans which I would never do, and I want to avoid it, so sue me ...

You need to speak with the immigration people about the low end idea. The 800,00k option has all kinds downsides even for us who are not trying to break the rules and really have the money. Mostly, there is the financial loss in having to move this amount of money from a higher earning account to a local account which has a low interest rate. The seasoning rule even makes it worse.

Being as we are brainstorming here, I have a couple of thoughts. May be viable or not. What if you set up some type of account with deposit of 800,000 baht equivalent in the states that pays you monthly at 65,000 baht. I am far from a financial expert but might be something like a trust with you as beneficiary. Another thought is an 800,000 baht equivalent loan agreement with someone in the states that has payments of 65,000 baht per month. In both cases you will have documentation and local bank statement showing the monthly income. All is legal (it's your money not someone elses) with no intent on your part to break the immigration rules.

[Maestro]

If I should ever need it, a friend of mine would give me a letter on his company’s letterhead something like this (all names changed):

“I, the undersigned, Pinco Pallino, Chief Executive of Acme Corporation , a juristic person existing under Swiss law, hereby certify that Carlo Maestro, holder of Swiss passport No. A-123456, is a member of our organisation with a monthly remuneration of CHF 3,000 (three thousand Swiss francs)”

While I would receive no remuneration from Acme Corporation, this would allow me to live on my savings, if I wished to do so, without the need to show 800k Baht in a Thai bank account.

--

Maestro

[Krub]

Hi all

Could someone please advise on the following;

I am a contract Engineer normally working around the Middle East / Asia where ever I can find suitable projects.

I am hoping to take up the retirement visa option when I reach 50, in about 18 months time, although I still intend to work.

My question is regarding the 65K declared income that is confirmed by the embassy, must this income come from a pension source or is it irrelevent so long as you have the required monthly funds coming in??

regards

Frank

The immigration translation text says 'income' and does not say 'pension'

Each Embassy have their own rules as to what, if any, evidence they require to produce the 'income' letter required by immigration

There is no requirement to show regular transfers of the 65k into a Thai bank account but some immigration offices like to see a healthy bank account book even if you go the 65k route

I am still employed in Japan and have the UK Embassy produce a letter of income stating my yearly salary which is accepted by immigration to satisfy the 65k requirement for a 1 year retirement extension. Kap Cheong Immigration do not ask to see any bank book, only a copy of the Embassy letter as of last September 4.