How Thailand Ranks At The Top And Bottom In The World

[greenwanderer108]

So, we've seen several threads of people going back and forth about how great and horrible LOS is and how some just want to get out, while others just want to get back... Let's have a neutral go at it from the start based on the facts, at least what is available.

So browsing around in search of statistics as to complete a blog (which can be accessed via me profile), I came across NationMaster.com, one of the most in depth statistics websites I have yet seen, including everything from crime to economics, demographics, and everything in between ranking countries ...pretty cool for statistic freaks...

So this is where Thailand ranks at the bottom

And this is where Thailand ranks at the Top

So have a look, and lets see what serious and goofy conclusions will be germinated from such stats.

For example,

Thailand is the best place to live if you're a rice farmer

Thailand is the worst place to live if you're a corn farmer

I know, I'm drained from statistic analyzing at this hour...

[JetsetBkk]

Before you get too excited by NationMaster's "statistics", I suggest you have a look at these figures:

Total Murders: Thailand 8th with 5,140

Total murders with firearms - Thailand 3rd with 20,032

How does this add up?

How can there be more murders with firearm than total murder?

Murders per capita - Thailand 14th with 0.080/1,000

Murders with firearm per capita - Thailand 3rd with 0.312/1,000

Same error - about a factor of 4 if every murder in Thailand was by a firearm (highly unlikely). So the error is probably a factor of 10 or 20.

Great site!

Edited October 2, 2007 by JetsetBkk

[elkangorito]

Before you get too excited by NationMaster's "statistics", I suggest you have a look at these figures:

Total Murders: Thailand 8th with 5,140

Total murders with firearms - Thailand 3rd with 20,032

How does this add up?

How can there be more murders with firearm than total murder?

Murders per capita - Thailand 14th with 0.080/1,000

Murders with firearm per capita - Thailand 3rd with 0.312/1,000

Same error - about a factor of 4 if every murder in Thailand was by a firearm (highly unlikely). So the error is probably a factor of 10 or 20.

Great site!

It does seem odd, doesn't it!

The definitions don't help you much either;

"Total recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm."

"Total recorded intentional homicides, completed."

Maybe the 2nd definition should say, "Total recorded intentional homicides, completed WITHOUT a firearm."

[PhilHarries]

More proof, as if we needed it, of the value of statistics and statisticians.

Definition : Statistics.

The art of manipulating figures to support whatever agenda the paying client has.

[Juzrelax]

The stats prove that 75% of all stats are not true.

[Juzrelax]

The stats prove that 75% of all stats are not true.

[Somtham]

The stats prove that 75% of all stats are not true.

Statistics don't lie........Statisticians do!!

rgds

[Bryan in Isaan]

67.4 % of statistics are made up on the spot.

[greenwanderer108]

Okay, we can go all day about how inaccurate and bad the statistics are...

I think all Jetski did was point out an error in nationmaster.com's republishing of the actual UN Crime statistics (the source for crime related stats on the site), as overall homicides in Thailand should have been 25,000+ not 5000+ so it seems they simply made a typo on that particular category (overall murders).

If you got a better site than nationmaster.com who attempts to rank world countries up in thousands of categories, please don't hesitate to post it, otherwise, if you find some unbelievable stats that don't add up there, take the extra minute to follow up on the source and see why it didn't add up, end of story.

The source of the actual crime statistics, however, is the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, probably the best world authority on the topic of drugs and crime, so if you really wanted to charge the validity of the stats, why didn't you just follow it to the specific source when you found your typo error? And if you can come up with a better source for such world statistics, be my guess to post it.

Anyway trolls, this thread wasn't intended to be about testing exact validity of specifics of stats, (at least don't just gripe about it and contribute nothing) Lets stick to the topic, using available statistics to debate how Great and Crap Thailand is based on the available stats. (not happy with the stats provided, make educated adjustments or provide your own!) Otherwise if you just would like to talk about how great and bad Thailand is based on personal opinion, there are several other threads nearby waiting for you.

That said, my next post here, as I hope everyone else's WILL stick to the Subject matter.

[greenwanderer108]

According to the statistics...

Thailand is (one of the) worst place to be if you expect your 9 year old kid's friends (Pratom 3-4) to own a dictionary, calculator, computer, study desk, or more than 25 books (i doubt cartoon books counted as books in such a survey)

Not exactly unbelievable...

However, Thailand is (one of the) best places to be if you expect your 10 and 11 (Pratom 4-6) year old to get maximum hours of instruction...

I certainly wasn't forced/drilled as much those ages in the USA as some of my pupils that age here are in Thailand.

Edited October 3, 2007 by greenwanderer108

[Scott]

Thanks for the link. Statistics are statistics and they are helpful. They give us an idea of where things are. Statistics are a tool, there just a tool based on knowledge. I don't much like math, but it does come in handy when paying my bills or getting change back.

[xyborg]

<br />According to the statistics... <br /><br />Thailand is (one of the) worst place to be if you expect your 9 year old kid's friends (Pratom 3-4) to own a dictionary, calculator, computer, study desk, or more than 25 books (i doubt cartoon books counted as books in such a survey) <img src="style_emoticons/default/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /><br /><br />Not exactly unbelievable...<br /><br />However, Thailand is (one of the) best places to be if you expect your 10 and 11 (Pratom 4-6) year old to get maximum hours of instruction... <br /><br />I certainly wasn't forced/drilled as much those ages in the USA as some of my pupils that age here are in Thailand.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yes they get the maximum teaching/ "brainwashing" but we need stats now on the quality of that "brainwashing" after all it could be a monkey teaching them for hours rather than a professor??

[Scott]

Quantity is easier to judge than quality. I agree with the previous poster, but if you have quantity there is probably a greater likihood that there will be SOME quality in there.

[a2396]

More proof, as if we needed it, of the value of statistics and statisticians.

Definition : Statistics.

The art of manipulating figures to support whatever agenda the paying client has.

EXACTLY. Someone can cook these numbers to say anything they want. Most of these are not scientific and objective surveys, but someone's opinion about a matter. As for gun violence, I would have a lot more to fear in my own country (USA) from road rage pot shooters and gang bangers.

[elkangorito]

Greenwanderer, your avatar looks an animated turd. Is it Mr (or Mrs) Hanky?

Yep. Can't disagree with the "brainwashing"...it's one of those 'dictatorial' leftovers.

What's the old saying? "Figures can lie & liars can figure".

[DP25]

The source of the actual crime statistics, however, is the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, probably the best world authority on the topic of drugs and crime, so if you really wanted to charge the validity of the stats, why didn't you just follow it to the specific source when you found your typo error? And if you can come up with a better source for such world statistics, be my guess to post it.

Even better than that, would be to go some actual statistics from the Thai police department, in Thai. http://ftp.police.go.th/statistic/stat/cy48_total.pdf .

According to that, in 2548, there were 4,804 (section 1.1 and 2.1) murders in Thailand. 20,000 is the total number of gun crimes(section 5.1), which I believe is referring to illegal possession. It seems to me the person who reported the 20,000 firearm murders per year is making an error, as that number would refer to any crime with a gun involved, not just murders.

[wileycoyote]

Disraeli was attributed to saying:

"There are liars,damned liars and statisticians"

Wiley Coyote

Edited October 3, 2007 by wileycoyote

[JetsetBkk]

Okay, we can go all day about how inaccurate and bad the statistics are...

I think all Jetski did was point out an error in nationmaster.com's republishing of the actual UN Crime statistics (the source for crime related stats on the site), as overall homicides in Thailand should have been 25,000+ not 5000+ so it seems they simply made a typo on that particular category (overall murders). If you got a better site than nationmaster.com who attempts to rank world countries up in thousands of categories, please don't hesitate to post it, otherwise, if you find some unbelievable stats that don't add up there, take the extra minute to follow up on the source and see why it didn't add up

No, I'll just point out the error and let you do the searching.

The source of the actual crime statistics, however, is the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, probably the best world authority on the topic of drugs and crime, so if you really wanted to charge the validity of the stats, why didn't you just follow it to the specific source when you found your typo error?

My typo error? I don't think so.

Unfortunately for you, your "best world authority" has the following statistics for Thailand:

Total recorded intentional homicide, completed........................... 5,717 ..5,052 ..5,140

Total recorded intentional homicide, attempted ...........................4,777 ..4,311 ..4,739

Total recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm ..23,631 21,635 20,032

These figures are for 1998, 1999 and 2000. ( http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf )

So these figures from your "best world authority" are also nonsense.

And if you can come up with a better source for such world statistics, be my guess to post it.

You shouldn't guess - it's facts we want and I believe DP25 just posted a better source.

Anyway trolls, this thread wasn't intended to be about testing exact validity of specifics of stats, (at least don't just gripe about it and contribute nothing) Lets stick to the topic, using available statistics to debate how Great and Crap Thailand is based on the available stats. (not happy with the stats provided, make educated adjustments or provide your own!) Otherwise if you just would like to talk about how great and bad Thailand is based on personal opinion, there are several other threads nearby waiting for you.

That said, my next post here, as I hope everyone else's WILL stick to the Subject matter.

Will we indeed!

[candoman89]

"Statistics are like a bikini....................what they hide is more interesting than what they reveal"

Dr. Dave.........my statistics prof in uni.

[Naam]

i'd never trust any statistic which i haven't forged myself!

[greenwanderer108]

Unfortunately for you...bla bla bla

Yet again, you have said nothing about the topic at hand and continue to insist on proving a point that there is an error (or perhaps misunderstanding-misinterpretation due to flawed or lack thereof definitions) in the available statistics.

You seem to have accomplished

A. complaining about something without providing any alternative solutions or sources as to address the topic at hand

and

B. Pointing out that the office of United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime is 'nonsense'

Unfortunately for you...

In the midst of all your wit and wanking with words and numbers, you forgot to

A. Contribute to the thread's topic in providing a debate/basis of how/why Thailand is good or bad place based on available statistics

and, since you have no faith in the available statistics, you still failed to

B. Provide a better source of WORLD countries statistics for comparison sake (this is not a thread about simply gun violence in Thailand as you seemed to be referring to my particular blog post, feel free to post your findings/opinions on that blog if you still feel your point hasn't been made)

ps, spare me a grudge match and get back on track with the thread topic, I have little desire for a petty cat fight.

[Somtham]

B. Provide a better source of WORLD countries statistics for comparison sake (this is not a thread about simply gun violence in Thailand as you seemed to be referring to my particular blog post, feel free to post your findings/opinions on that blog if you still feel your point hasn't been made)

The CIA World Fact Book is always a fun read but doesn't get into a lot of the detail.

Check it out at https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

rgds