Aborted Landing At Suvarnabhumi

[Dr. Burrito]

This is my, 'dam_n, I am glad to be alive' post and a sad note on safety I suppose at Suvarnabhumi , though this same issue has been arising in the states of late too it seems.

We were landing yesterday, wheels down and almost on the runway when the pilot pulled it up as sharply as a 777 can do it, leaving us all in the back to pray to God we weren't about to be a negative statistic. He did come on the intercom and admit there was a uncleared runway issue, but didn't go into details and we were simply happy enough we were alive to leave it be as well.

I've no idea how truly serious it was, but for a moment there, I had a bit if a sick stomach.

They were talking about this very same thing on CNN in the states last week, where the FAA was releasing data on near misses at a couple of American airports.

The crowded skies are making for some interesting times these days and I have a lot more flying to do again soon. I'll get right on-board again, but I will be thinking a bit more about it on landing and take-off than I normally do.

I would assume this is primarily a traffic controller issue, but perhaps I am wrong?

[Crossy]

Nerve wracking isn't it?

But an uncleared runway is hardly life threatening, and is much more common than you'd think. We get two a week reported in Mumbai (and I bet a lot more don't get reported in the media).

Aircraft on approach are as close together as is practically possible, it only takes one flight to be slow clearing possibly by landing a little hot or long meaning that he misses the high speed turnout and the guy behind has to do a go-around.

[steverino]

The Tennerife accident comes to mind......KLM 747 and some Charter flight I recall. Uncleared runway issue.

On a lighter note I was landing at Linate, Milan on a BA Trident and aborted the landing. Captains explanation, "sorry folks, but there was a dog on the runway.....it could only happen in Italy!"

More seriously, we were in a holding pattern above the Thames barrier prior to landing at Heathrow on a BA 777, and I was casually looking out of the window, when suddenly an SAS DC9 shot out of the clouds below to my left, so close I could see the Pilot and Ist Officer clearly. They wheeled off beneath us, but that was scary....I could have ended up in the Tower of London!

[Crossy]

The Tennerife accident comes to mind......KLM 747 and some Charter flight I recall. Uncleared runway issue.

Somewhat different although similar issue, the runway was obstucted when the KLM took off without clearance and piled into a PanAm 747, still the worst crash ever (and hopefully to remain that way)

I've had two missed approaches, definately not a comfortable experience.

Scariest incident I've had was an aborted takeoff at KLIA. Korean Air flight chopped the power and applied full reverse when well into the roll, we must have been very near V1 (point of no return) scared the willies out of most of the passengers. Captain came on 'technical problem'. We sat on the ground for about 10 minutes before trundling back to the takeoff point and going again without incident.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Crossy

[Dr. Burrito]

Well, I was online with a pilot friend of mine today and he said it was both serious and good reason for concern. He said a wheels almost on the runway and then being aborted means basically we were lucky to be alive. Not that our airport here is the only place with these issues.

Too many airplanes and too few people helping them get around basically. They nearly plowed two jets into each other over O'Hare airport in Chicago last week. The pilot saved his own bacon there.

My track record now sits at

One aborted take-off - we had to wait more than and hour for the brakes to cool off on that one even though an

engineer said it was a faulty gauge

One engine fire - same dam_n flight as it turned out there was a problem after all. I can only hope the engineer

lost his job. The actual landing and evacuation was a whole different story. I feel like I could

write a manual on unpreparedness there.

One aborted landing - here this last week

According to what all the statistic gurus say, I should have a free pass for the rest of my life now, but I'm thinking they need to rework their statistics a bit as well.

Dr. B

Edited November 17, 2007 by Dr. Burrito

[Goshawk]

I would assume this is primarily a traffic controller issue, but perhaps I am wrong?

probably just a few cobra's on the runway. they are protected after all...

[dekka007]

Well, I was online with a pilot friend of mine today and he said it was both serious and good reason for concern. He said a wheels almost on the runway and then being aborted means basically we were lucky to be alive

Not serious, Not good reason for concern. Yesterday for example there were 4 at Heathrow. Happens everyday. And you can make a missed approach with the wheels already on the deck - no worries.

Edited November 18, 2007 by dekka007

[bartender100]

Same thing happened to me at Penang airport a few years ago on Malaysian Airline,except the pilot never said a word,almost vertical climb,i'm thinking Panang Hill ahead.

The wheels were almost down as well,it circled once and landed.Met a few guys on the same flight in the hotel,and we had a few stiff drinks

[Shrubbery]

"a sad note on safety I suppose at Suvarnabhumi".

Go arounds occur throughout the world.

I work with a 747,767 & an A340 and the pilots will do touch and go training on a weekly basis, so a "go around" will be a pretty easy manouvre.

One must assume that it was not a TG 777. Had it have been a TG flight, I somehow have the feeling that a "mountain would have been made out of a mole hill".

[Martin4travel]

Hi to all,

Allow me to add my small contribution to this conversation.

(Although I’m a long time observer of ThaiVisa, this is the first time to actually write something in response).

When it comes to safety, there are 2 issues: The cost of safety and the awareness of safety.

Sadly, the implementation of safety devices on aircraft has to do with comparing the cost of implementing the device to the cost of not implementing it.

If the cost if implementing a safety device is higher then the cost of not implementing it will not be implemented.

Foe example, there are wonderful safety devices, based on GPS, that notify each aircraft of each others position, but they are not implemented because mid air collisions are so rare, so it’s cheaper for the airline to pay compensation (through the insurance) to the relatives then to bear the cost of the implementing the safety device.

The other issue is awareness.

When an accident happens, and the public founds out that that the accident could have been avoided, then there is public pressure to implement the safety device regardless of the cost.

Another drive is the worry of the insurance company that in the next similar event, the cost of compensation will be much higher because this time around, the airline would be accused that although this type of accident has happened in the past, no measurers were taken to correct it or prevent the reoccurrence of such event.

So the sad bottom line is that the drive for safety in the airline industry is not how to prevent an accident, but the drive is the financial question: would this type of accident worth the cost of preventing it.

As a result of that, usually the push for better safety is a result of an accident, rather then the result of thinking how to prevent one.

There are so many excellent safety devices out there, but when human life is reduced to a statistical line of financial cost, the chances for better safety BEFORE an accident happens are low.

Can this be changed?

Yes, of course.

If the public maintains constant pressure on the airlines, then they will have to act.

Maintaining this pressure is very easy. If you went through an event of an aborted landing for example, call your local newspaper and tell the reporter what happened.

After a while, the reporter will notice if there are too many cases of aborted landings and make a story about it (And of course will be blamed by the aviation industry for making a big deal out of nothing).

If the public continues to notify the reporter, then after a while the next story will follow with a headline along the lines of ‘They are still doing nothing about it’ and eventually the airline (and the insurance company) will start being concerned that statistically some accident will happen and they will look really bad for doing nothing although warned about it in the past through the media, and they will be forced t take action.

I am not great believer in letting an industry, professional as it is, to set its own safety standards, and it’s our responsibility as passengers to do something about it.

And all it takes is a phone call or an email to your local newspaper.

(I am a travel agent working in Thailand and a journalist representing a newspaper from my home country).

Edited November 18, 2007 by Martin4travel

[Jay_Jay]

This seems like a decent place to share my experience from a couple of weeks ago on Thai Airways...

Coming down to land in Beijing - nothing abnormal, plane was steady, weather nice. The landing was one of the hardest I've ever experienced (used to work for an airline). We turned, slightly made it off the run way (enough to clear the tail off - though many of us were left wondering biting our nails whether the tail was actually clear of the main runway), then there was a whole lot of mechanical and clunking noise coming from the wing and underneath the plane.

It turns out that the wheels were damaged on landing and we could not move or turn the plane. There was an announcement that we'd have to wait for about 45 min before we received a tow.

As we all looked up to the right, we saw another plane coming in to land. We thought they couldn't be serious, as we were kinda blocking the way. Nevertheless, a Malaysian Airlines 777 got closer and closer and then finally landed and swept in just behind us. It couldn't get out as we were blocking the way out. It then turned around and started going back up the runway in the other direction as another plane could be seen in the distance coming in to land. It turned off the runway, the next plane landed and ducked out of the way.

Finally after about 40mins a tow-truck came to drag us back to the terminal and life went on as usual.

This is my second incident of this nature on Thai airways (first one a few years back - skin of the wing started peeling off and had to about face and return to the airport after having flown for 3 hrs (took less than an hour to get back!) - put us up for the night). I wonder how many other incidents like this happen that don't make the headlines.

[wpcoe]

I would assume this is primarily a traffic controller issue, but perhaps I am wrong?

probably just a few cobra's on the runway. they are protected after all...

Especially if they are "King" cobras. Lese majeste, and all...

[jeebusjones]

My track record now sits at

One aborted take-off - we had to wait more than and hour for the brakes to cool off on that one even though an

engineer said it was a faulty gauge

One engine fire - same dam_n flight as it turned out there was a problem after all. I can only hope the engineer

lost his job. The actual landing and evacuation was a whole different story. I feel like I could

write a manual on unpreparedness there.

One aborted landing - here this last week

What airlines did this happen with?

I really shouldn't be reading this thread. I've always been a nervous flier and can't even get on a plane without taking xanax. I do think these incidents are much more common than most people would like to believe. I remember reading a couple of weeks ago about a study done by NASA in the US to evaluate airlines safety there. They shut down the study prematurely and concealed the results because they had found so many incidents and didn't want to damage consumer's confidence in the industry. Very scary stuff.

Anyone else hear about this?

[tolsti]

I was lucky enough to experience a ''go around'' a few years ago on a Transaero 757 flight into Moscow from Baku. It was Xmas eve and I was in the jump seat (pre 9/11). We were coming in on a snowy, freezing cold night with few breaks in the cloud and were on long finals with one on the runway waiting to depart. The captain and first officer had gone through their approach checks and discussed the actions in the case of a go around, clearly and unambiguously in English and everything was set up for a landing. Cabins were secure and crew seated. We proceeded to lose height as required.

Unfortunately the Alitalia aircraft waiting to depart failed to get away from its' stopped position despite having received clearance to take off and a go around was called.

WHOOPS!! what a ride... Bells and whistles, alarms and up and away we went..... great fun from my point of view and expertly handled by the crew who immediately took it in their stride, Captain flying and First Office handling radio etc.

Not sure what the folks down back thought but it was a great Xmas present for me!!!

Every landing (and takeoff) is planned and discussed with roles allocated and procedures outlined. Pilots are professionals and whilst everyone wishes rejected takeoff/landings didn't happen they do and will continue to occur.