Running Away And Being Selfish....

[damnaam]

Hi to all members of Thaivisa!

Every question I've had before has already been asked and answered on this forum, so this is my first post and a heavy one at that. Nevertheless, I'll try to keep it brief...

Setting: London.

This time last year I broke up from my girlfriend of 4 years, materially we had everything you could want from life and more but her biological clock was ticking and crunch time had arrived. For personal reasons, I'm not ready for kids yet so we split up.

Met another girl, had a fling, she knew I'm not up for the kids thing yet she stopped taking the pill, unbeknownst to me. After a few months it wasn't really working out and with a few months in Thailand ahead of me (Jan to Mar this year, part business/part pleasure) I told her we should just be friends.

One week into my trip to Thailand she phones me up with the bombshell that I'm going to be a dad. We talk about abortion but she insists on having the baby and tells me it's about time I faced up to my responsibilities....

So, the past few months have been really hard for the both of us. I have spent the past four winters in Thailand, only a few months at a time, but enough to get a feel for the place (and the lady(ies) ) and, probably like a lot of you, I love it, at least enough to want to re-locate there and live a better life - as in the climate, the people in general and simple things like a different way of life far removed from the way things are getting to be here in England. She cannot believe that I can even contemplate leaving her and the newborn behind in the U.K. I realise I might appear to be heartless and selfish beyond belief and, believe me, I've drawn plenty of fire from certain quarters for suggesting I may well not be here to bring the child up with its mother.... So, to all you people who have made tough decisions like this in the past, please tell me, do you think I'm out of order here because at the moment I can't see the wood for the trees!

I can sort most things out in life and if I make the move to Thailand I don't think money will be a big problem since I work in TV and a company in Singapore would put some work my way if I'm based in that region and I may be able to pick up a little freelance diving work too in Phuket.

The icing on the cake? I have a Thai girlfriend I trust and am crazy about!

All views welcomed khap...

[falong]

Hi to all members of Thaivisa!

Every question I've had before has already been asked and answered on this forum, so this is my first post and a heavy one at that. Nevertheless, I'll try to keep it brief...

Setting: London.

This time last year I broke up from my girlfriend of 4 years, materially we had everything you could want from life and more but her biological clock was ticking and crunch time had arrived. For personal reasons, I'm not ready for kids yet so we split up.

Met another girl, had a fling, she knew I'm not up for the kids thing yet she stopped taking the pill, unbeknownst to me. After a few months it wasn't really working out and with a few months in Thailand ahead of me (Jan to Mar this year, part business/part pleasure) I told her we should just be friends.

One week into my trip to Thailand she phones me up with the bombshell that I'm going to be a dad. We talk about abortion but she insists on having the baby and tells me it's about time I faced up to my responsibilities....

So, the past few months have been really hard for the both of us. I have spent the past four winters in Thailand, only a few months at a time, but enough to get a feel for the place (and the lady(ies) ) and, probably like a lot of you, I love it, at least enough to want to re-locate there and live a better life - as in the climate, the people in general and simple things like a different way of life far removed from the way things are getting to be here in England. She cannot believe that I can even contemplate leaving her and the newborn behind in the U.K. I realise I might appear to be heartless and selfish beyond belief and, believe me, I've drawn plenty of fire from certain quarters for suggesting I may well not be here to bring the child up with its mother.... So, to all you people who have made tough decisions like this in the past, please tell me, do you think I'm out of order here because at the moment I can't see the wood for the trees!

I can sort most things out in life and if I make the move to Thailand I don't think money will be a big problem since I work in TV and a company in Singapore would put some work my way if I'm based in that region and I may be able to pick up a little freelance diving work too in Phuket.

The icing on the cake? I have a Thai girlfriend I trust and am crazy about!

All views welcomed khap...

Which do you like better? Being a troll or abandoning your child?

[wamberal]

It is you who has to make the decision, based on your own personal morality, sense of responsibility etc.

Some would argue that self-interest is the only horse in the race worth backing, because it will always be trying to win.

I am a lot older than you, and got married for the first time a few years ago to a Thai woman who is years younger than me. We would have loved to have had a child, but no luck.

I do some voluntary teaching at a government school in our town which is a few kms north of Sydney. Quite a few of the kids are living in broken families....for all the kids in the class, the notion of mum and dad breaking up is the thing that worries them most.

For myself, I could not turn my back on my child, no matter what.

Think through what you are doing. Are you the sort of person who can live with the knowledge that your child will grow up without a father? Can the mother of the child cope without any support from you?

The old saying is "marry in haste, repent at leisure"....you have a long life ahead in which to repent, either case...marrying her, or leaving her.

[alvino]

If this is for real, you are not worthy of a reply.

[damnaam]

O.K - This is not a troll for sure - I joined this forum a good 4 months ago.

Alvino, your reply is self fulfilling since it's not even a reply.

Falong, well enough said really.

What we're talikng about here is being shoved in to a situation here that I didn't ask for and will affect me for many, many years to come... If I see it through I can kiss goodbye to my travels and extended stays in Thailand to escape the british winter. I can assure you it's not a decision taken lightly since I am also from a broken home - hence the reason I haven't had / didn't want kids yet - because I'm not settled enough to be ready....

Gotta go to work now but Wamberal, thanks for your reply, any other considered views welcome too. Thanks.

[dek]

Having been trapped many years ago by a false pregnancy claim I think if I were you I would bail. Your GF tried to set you up by deliberatly falling pg with the knowledge that you wouldn't accept having a child. I feel somewhat sorry for the child but the mother is the lowest of the low.

dek

[davethailand]

slag me off everyone if you want but i was nearly in a situation like that myself years ago, luckily she had an abortion which was best as we were both only just 20 years old and it would have definately messed up our lifes.

maybe you should have discussed birth control with her but nevertheless i think you should follow your heart, if you want to come to thailand then do so, i think its selfish of her to expect you to drop everything, if she wants the baby then theres not alot you can do about that, you can still have a part in its upbringing but i don,t think its right for you to stay with a women who you don't love and want to stay with.

I've just re-read your post and you say she stopped taking the pill but did'nt tell you, again, my ex tried to do this to me and i warned her not to as in my opinion trying to trap someone like that is very wrong.

I don't think its selfish for you to carry on with your trips to thailand and continue the relationship with your thai girlfriend, and i also think the girl in london should stop being selfish and understand this.

Alot of girls i know back home all had kids (some before they were 20) just to get bloody council houses and handouts, (i know this before anyone slags me off as they were friends and have habits of shagging all the guys in the pub every weekend), I'm not implying this girl is the same but there should be the right situation and support before bring a baby into the world.

Good luck anyway.

[Yohan]

I think, you are indeed in urgent need of councelling, both of you.....

Not only you, but your wife made mistakes, too ...

The problem is, that the victim is then the most innocent one out of the whole selfish story...the child.

Even if you do not want children, and your wife also agrees and do not want children, and even if you do all and everything to avoid pregnancy, it still might happen.

You both failed to make up your mind, what to do in such a case... to carry the child out, or to prefer abortion.

You cannot accuse your wife now for being pregnant and for refusing an abortion, even if she did not tell you the truth and did not take the pill - you did not take the condom, I would say....You are responsible for your own security....

Many women are developing a very strong desire to have their own children, a very natural matter....you should have studied about women's feelings before enjoying unprotected sex with your wife.

Congratulation, father!

What do you want to do now? To disappear? OK, then be honest and pay a little every month for your child....

However insist of checking, to be sure that you are really the father! Who knows?

And if you still love her, then go back to her, get married, and accept both wife and child....

This is also not so bad, I think you got the total 'daddy shock' - You should start with family as early as possible. It is not so difficult as you might think.

(My wife and I are now 52, our 2 daughters are grown up, no obligations anymore.... we enjoy life!)

You must make that decision, by accepting your own mistakes..... Do not accuse your woman for your present situation...

[boris]

slag me off everyone if you want but i was nearly in a situation like that myself years ago, luckily she had an abortion which was best as we were both only just 20 years old and it would have definately messed up our lifes.

maybe you should have discussed birth control with her but nevertheless i think you should follow your heart, if you want to come to thailand then do so, i think its selfish of her to expect you to drop everything, if she wants the baby then theres not alot you can do about that, you can still have a part in its upbringing but i don,t think its right for you to stay with a women who you don't love and want to stay with.

I've just re-read your post and you say she stopped taking the pill but did'nt tell you, again, my ex tried to do this to me and i warned her not to as in my opinion trying to trap someone like that is very wrong.

I don't think its selfish for you to carry on with your trips to thailand and continue the relationship with your thai girlfriend, and i also think the girl in london should stop being selfish and understand this.

Alot of girls i know back home all had kids (some before they were 20) just to get bloody council houses and handouts, (i know this before anyone slags me off as they were friends and have habits of shagging all the guys in the pub every weekend), I'm not implying this girl is the same but there should be the right situation and support before bring a baby into the world.

Good luck anyway.

On this forum I have sometimes tentatively reminded those from the West, particularly the UK, not to undervalue the strengths of their own societies in their infatuation with Thailand where "society", as strictly defined, only barely exists.However reading this series of revealing posts from these appalling "New Brits", I have to remind myself of the brutalities of proletarian UK.I have rarely seen such a parade of degradation, especially in the attitude towards women outside an Ali G sketch. Trouble is that many of these yobs appear to have a liking for Thailand (or more accurately their debased chimp like understanding of what Thailand is).If the current tough policy on visas helps keep these people out, more power to the government's elbow

[tutsiwarrior]

I say dump the bitch. If you stayed to attempt make a proper home for the kid the resentment that would develope from knowing that a dishonest and schemeing woman resorted to the lowest of maneouvres to entrap would not likely make for a successful marriage. You would also not want to subject the kid to the inevitable divorce that would ensue.

It will be difficult to develope any kind of relationship with your child without cooperation from the mother and it would have to be on her terms it seems if she is the sort of person that resorts to treachery to accomplish objectives. 'Face up to your responsibilities...' sh1t. If you do try and do the right thing you will be in for a lot of heartbreak and how successful you would be will have to do with how much pain you can endure. It's worth giving the matter a lot of thought before you move in this regard.

Yeah, everybody...old tutsi sounds like an embittered old fart but I went through all this sh1t with my ex. She did not entrap but our son came at a time when we were no longer in love. I thought when we discovered that she was pregnant that I could be letting myself in for the biggest bummer in the world. The reality exceeded the wildest and most despairing scenarios. This sort of thing (entrapment) seems to happen a lot in the UK as I personally know of at least two other instances. Women there seem to have a bizarre attitude to relationships and responsibility, ie., women don't have to be responsible.

Get out quick and don't look back.

[davethailand]

slag me off everyone if you want but i was nearly in a situation like that myself years ago, luckily she had an abortion which was best as we were both only just 20 years old and it would have definately messed up our lifes.

maybe you should have discussed birth control with her but nevertheless i think you should follow your heart, if you want to come to thailand then do so, i think its selfish of her to expect you to drop everything, if she wants the baby then theres not alot you can do about that, you can still have a part in its upbringing but i don,t think its right for you to stay with a women who you don't love and want to stay with.

I've just re-read your post and you say she stopped taking the pill but did'nt tell you, again, my ex tried to do this to me and i warned her not to as in my opinion trying to trap someone like that is very wrong.

I don't think its selfish for you to carry on with your trips to thailand and continue the relationship with your thai girlfriend, and i also think the girl in london should stop being selfish and understand this.

Alot of girls i know back home all had kids (some before they were 20) just to get bloody council houses and handouts, (i know this before anyone slags me off as they were friends and have habits of shagging all the guys in the pub every weekend), I'm not implying this girl is the same but there should be the right situation and support before bring a baby into the world.

Good luck anyway.

On this forum I have sometimes tentatively reminded those from the West, particularly the UK, not to undervalue the strengths of their own societies in their infatuation with Thailand where "society", as strictly defined, only barely exists.However reading this series of revealing posts from these appalling "New Brits", I have to remind myself of the brutalities of proletarian UK.I have rarely seen such a parade of degradation, especially in the attitude towards women outside an Ali G sketch. Trouble is that many of these yobs appear to have a liking for Thailand (or more accurately their debased chimp like understanding of what Thailand is).If the current tough policy on visas helps keep these people out, more power to the government's elbow

What the **** are you on about?

am i an appaling brit who does'nt understand thailand?

do you know me? my wife and family?

NO YOU DON'T

your a troll anyway

[Yohan]

Boris,

Many members of this forum know about my critical views of a certain group of Western women, where the woman is considered always as a poor and helpless victim, and the man as the bad criminal, without considering the facts, what really happened.

Sad to say, that some strange men feel satisfaction to follow up such women, considering themselves as a 'male feminist' being unable to separate between right and wrong, and judging a situation only if the person is a man or a woman.

In this thread, as I said in my previous posting, without doubt, both the man and the woman, made mistakes....They both are responsible...

It is now difficult to decide, what they should do in the future, but some councelling might help for an acceptable solution for both of them.

Before you talk about the quality of men living in Thailand, I recommend you to look into a mirror.

[Totster]

I say dump the bitch.

.. Direct and to the point... I like it !!

totster

[Yohan]

Women there seem to have a bizarre attitude to relationships and responsibility, ie., women don't have to be responsible.

Get out quick and don't look back.

Welcome back, Tutsiwarrior....

Such women are considered to be 'radical feminists', I like to call them to be Euro-Trash-girls. Same is true with some US-power-ladies, called femi-nazis.

I do not care to be called an all-in-all woman-hater in return. Even not by such strange posters like 'boris', the 'male feminist', who is pushing any responsibility to the man, keeping the woman totally out of any obligation.

davethailand Posted on Sat 2004-08-28, 16:11:54

What the **** are you on about?

am i an appaling brit who does'nt understand thailand?

do you know me? my wife and family?

NO YOU DON'T

your a troll anyway 

Dave, please, stay calm, let me fight this out with Boris, this 'male feminist'

I am accustomed to argumentation like that and I have the patience for it.

Boris is not a troll, according to his own postings in other threads of this forum he is living in Thailand since 15 years and has a Thai wife.....

Why is he not married to a Western wife, if he respects them so much?

Why is he still in Thailand and not homesick for Europe, this 'Old Brit'?

Best regards,

Johann

[ThaiPauly]

IMHO there is no point in staying with someone you do not love for the sake of the child, in fact it can be more damaging for the child to have two parents around constantly at war with each other. It will end in tears in the long run then the child could be seriously damaged, better for he/she to grow up in a one parent family, at least he/she will know where they stand. I am speaking with some personal heartbreaking experiences which I dont want to go into, just say that I am well qualified to answer, but it's not my place or others to judge you

I admire your honesty, you have set yourself up for a flaming from some folks on this site but at the end of the day it is only YOU who can decide the future, you'll get plenty of advice if you post here, especially on a HOT TOPIC like this which involves morals and from many who have never experienced what you are going throgh right now.

I agree with you regarding Alvino's post, if he has nothing constructive to say he should say nothing, not just flame you and judge you. He is not in your shoes.

Speaking for myself only- I do not regret the past, but Iwill not forget or turn my back on it, if the child is yours you have to do the right thing by supporting it, that is only fair, your wife will eventually find someone new who may be willing to bring the child up as their own, it happens, but if there is no love then my advice for what it's worth would be to move on.

I hope this post helps, may your God guide you

[TingTawng]

Well said Yohan.

boris, in your chivalrous eyes, women need protecting from men. To you a woman can never deceive a man. Or, even worse, you simply overlook the fact that this man was deceived into thinking his girlfriend was using contraception.

Your point of view is at least 10 years out of date. Here in the UK, feminism is like a swear-word now. A lot of the media are very supportive of men's rights (way overdue). Tell me, why is there a need for Fathers4Justice in the UK? Why is there no need for a Mothers4Justice group in the UK?

One of the biggest influences in the UK towards broken families is feminism. It brought in no-fault divorce, sexist domestic violence proecedures by the police and the courts, unfair custody laws etc etc.

The biggest offence you have made boris, to me, is your complete ignorance to reality.

[IamMaiC]

He Needs to be a man and take care of the girl and the child he fathered if it is his. Nuff Said

[TingTawng]

damnaam, I would wait until the child is born. Two things: you should definitely see the child first. Be there for the birth.

2nd, get a paternity test too....you never know.

If the child is yours, it is at least your responsibility to financially take care of this child for 18 years. If you move to Thailand, you will be supporting a child living in the UK...that's the equivilant to supporting about 5 people in Thailand (rough, rough guess!). In any case, it will prove to be very expensive for you.

If you bail out of all responsibilities, I would have a rather low opinion of you, even though you've been totally suckered by your girlfriend.

I feel sorry for you - you've been duped. I feel sorry for the child. I do not feel sorry for the mother.

[boris]

davethailand Posted on Sat 2004-08-28, 16:11:54

What the **** are you on about?

am i an appaling brit who does'nt understand thailand?

do you know me? my wife and family?

NO YOU DON'T

your a troll anyway 

Dave, please, stay calm, let me fight this out with Boris, this 'male feminist'

I am accustomed to argumentation like that and I have the patience for it.

Boris is not a troll, according to his own postings in other threads of this forum he is living in Thailand since 15 years and has a Thai wife.....

Why is he not married to a Western wife, if he respects them so much?

Why is he still in Thailand and not homesick for Europe, this 'Old Brit'?

Best regards,

Johann

Johann

I would not for a moment personalise this or any discussion, let alone ask anyone to "look into a mirror" as you have done.The rage I seem to have engendered in some quarters seems to reflect my direct attack on British yob culture (I will admit I was laying it on a bit thick so the point would not be lost) and the neanderthal attitude to women associated with it.I don't response to inarticulate abuse but in your case I sense you are trying to make a serious point, albeit rather feebly.In any event I respect both Thai and Western women.I married a Thai woman because I fell in love with her.But I could have easily have married a Western woman.I find huge value in both Asian and Western culture, recognising both have their strengths and weaknesses.(If anyone is interested there are some interesting observations on this aspect in D.J Enright's "Memoirs of a Mendicant Professor" based on his time as a Chula acharn.)Surely even the dimwitted can see it is possible to embrace and be fond of two cultures.As an aside the more experienced Thai hands will have noticed that most Thais have very little sympathy for foreigners who reject their own culture.

I am actually quite pleased to be described as a "male feminist" if that implies kindness and sensitivity towards women, though I probably don't deserve the compliment.Equally chivalry is not an ignoble quality.I am cheerfully immune from charges I am ten years out of date.In any specific case there will obviously be instances where either the woman or man bears the preponderance of blame, hardly rocket science.

[Yohan]

Boris,

Neither in your first nor in your second posting, I read any advice, what this young man now should do to regulate his problems....

I read something about 'New Brits', neanderthal attitude, the preponderance of blame...... further that you find huge value in both Asian and Western culture. Finally you write something about a parade of degradation, especially in the attitude towards women.

It is not a surprise, that other members on this forum are considering you either as a 'troll' or as a 'male feminist'.

It is nothing wrong, if you post your opinion protecting the mother despite of her wrongdoings. However you should choose some better arguments for that, I think.

As TingTawng said, you simply overlook the fact that this man was deceived into thinking his girlfriend was using contraception.

What should this man really do now? Any idea?

[RooBoy]

Falong ya dickwad, you got an obsession with trolls?

Alvin...nuff said...

Boris, your posts are da-mn amusing, does your wife keep your balls in a jar or on the wall??

To the poor sod who started the thread, having a woman lie to you and use the baby trick to try and keep you around is truly sad, it happened to a friend of mine, and he left her, he sees his son every week now, although the first few years he was hardly in contact. It didnt change his decision to leave, and 7 years later I can see he made the right choice, he had also left her before she pronounced the pregnancy, AND the fact she had stopped taking the pill.

Although your idea of moving to the greener side of the fence might reek of stereotypical behaviour from all Brits who discover Thailand in the end you have to do what is going to make you happy. Its your one and only life, do you want to live it stuck in the cold n damp with a nagging bitch who you never wanted to be with in the first place?

[davethailand]

Falong ya dickwad, you got an obsession with trolls?

Alvin...nuff said...

Boris, your posts are da-mn amusing, does your wife keep your balls in a jar or on the wall??

To the poor sod who started the thread, having a woman lie to you and use the baby trick to try and keep you around is truly sad, it happened to a friend of mine, and he left her, he sees his son every week now, although the first few years he was hardly in contact. It didnt change his decision to leave, and 7 years later I can see he made the right choice, he had also left her before she pronounced the pregnancy, AND the fact she had stopped taking the pill.

Although your idea of moving to the greener side of the fence might reek of stereotypical behaviour from all Brits who discover Thailand in the end you have to do what is going to make you happy. Its your one and only life, do you want to live it stuck in the cold n damp with a nagging bitch who you never wanted to be with in the first place?

i think that has summed up the situation perfectly

[RooBoy]

Dave your insesant humping of soft toys is really annoying! Have you ever thought about seeing a dermatologist for that skin disorder?

[davethailand]

Dave your insesant humping of soft toys is really annoying! Have you ever thought about seeing a dermatologist for that skin disorder?   

not yet, but i'll tell you what! that kangeroo's looking dammnn fine.

[bartender100]

Why don't you bring her over with you after the child is born.The child would probably get a better upbringing here than the u.k.anyway.Also cost you a lot less than maternity payments.

[Axel]

Fortunately, I never was in a situation like this. She is the bitch to be dumped, as she was the one cheating by setting off the pill.

OTH,

After a few months it wasn't really working out and with a few months in Thailand ahead of me...

keeps my ears ringing and my hair standing up. You know it was not working out and still trusted her? Guess she as well knew it was not working out, that's when the old trick started.

Maybe she felt, once a baby is on the way, he will change his mind. LOL, never happens and should neither happen, it's just plain blackmail.

So, as an abortion is out and for sure cannot be legally enforced, you only can go for monetary settlement, which is absolutely necessary, you cannot let the child suffer for the parents' mistakes.

Perhaps, as apparently both are well off, you can fight for a mutual reesponsibility, however, I have no idea if a UK-court or any European would accept this even if you settle by mutual agreement. She will find a lawyer to fight.

Keep an option open for visiting rights and evtl. custody. Now, you are not interested. A few years later this can change. So, visit, see the little one, maybe one day you will be proud of him/her.

Latest then, whatever you fought about the amount to be paid, you might wish voluntarily to support more.

Dump the bitch is nice advice, afraid so, it will not work, you have to see her to see the baby and she will come after you for the alimony.

[siam]

One of the biggest influences in the UK towards broken families is feminism. It brought in no-fault divorce, sexist domestic violence proecedures by the police and the courts, unfair custody laws etc etc.

Reminded me of 1996 when i was married to a Farang,what a nutter she was,Cut a long story short,she had attaacked me nd started dumping my stuff on the street,so i called the cops,and they were going to arrest me for Breach of the peace to quell the situation not her

[fatter than harry]

Boris, can I ask a favour? Could you press the space button after you press the full stop button?

Thanks a lot mate.

[medicinebox]

She choose to come off the pill without telling you, its her problem. If you don't want her or the kid, walk away and never look back.

If she comes looking for money, just tell her its not yours and refuse a blood test.

Besides the welfare will take care of all her needs. Thats why they tax your balls off.

[meom]

Trust in God my friend and maybe she'll have a miscarriage.