"fined" For Carrying Medicine Without Prescription

[hyperdimension]

Last night (New years eve) I was with two frriends walking on the street to a nightclub in Sukhumvit, when two guys on a motorcycle stopped in front of us.

They were wearing plain clothes and each had small torches. One of them had some kind of laminated ID card on a string hung around his neck. I think it said "Thong Lor Police" with a bunch of details.

One of my friends is a Thai girl who can speak Thai but left Thailand at a young age for Australia, so she would not be as streetwise as a local. The other friend is a non-Thai male who cannot speak Thai. They are in Bangkok on a holiday.

We were a bit drunk since we had alcoholic drinks earlier. Plus my friends had been having a bit of an argument around 10 minutes earlier and had been shouting loudly at each other in the street. So we weren't thinking very straight and a bit agitated when these guys approched us.

They checked my friends' handbag and wallet and did not find anything suspicious. When they checked mine they found Immodium (loperamide, over-the-counter medicine for diarrhoea). There was no problem with this. Further in my wallet they found a Kamagra pill in its blister pack. The guy pointed out that there was a problem with this.

My Thai friend acted as the translator with the guy. He said it's illegal to have this medicine without a prescription, and that I will need to go to the police station. I think he said I would have to pay 10,000 baht there.

I offered to pay him some money then and there so that I would not have to deal with official proceedings. He aked how much I wanted to pay, and I said 1000. He laughed and said it should be 5000. I think my Thai friend got it down to 3000, but I asked her to get it down to 2000. I think she told him that I didn't bring much cash with me and he then agreed to 2000. So I paid him and that was that.

Thinking back, I wasn't sure whether they were actually undercover policemen. My Thai friend thinks they were since she says she the guy's badge.

Real policemen or not, I'm quite sure they were just out looking to make some easy cash and pick up free recreational substances from partygoers.

Is it illegal to buy medicine without a prescription?

Is it illegal for pharmacies to sell medicine without a prescription?

Is it illegal to carry medicine without a prescription?

There is one pharmacy on Sukhumvit road that clearly advertises on the street that medicine can be bought there without a prescription. See the attached image.

How would they know whether or not I actually bought medicine using a prescription? I could have simply left the prescription at home.

Kamagra is a generic drug used to treat erectile dysfunction. It contains the same chemical as Viagra (Silenafil Citrate) and is available at many pharmacies in Sukhumvit.

If they had caught me with propecia pills (used to treat hair loss), would they have still threatened to take me to the police station? Technically, it should not matter whether the prescription medicine is for cholesterol reduction, erectile dysfunction, or to treat hair loss. But I think since they knew it was a sexual enhancement drug they believed that they could take some action.

I've been questioned once during an entrance security check at a nightclub in Australia. I had a Cialis pill in its blister pack in my jeans. The guy asked to see the prescription. I did actually buy them using a prescription because it's not possible to buy these drugs without one. Australia is quite strict. Since I did not have it with me I had to throw the pill away in a large garbage back, and I was then allowed to enter. There was no threat to arrest me and take me to a police station.

So what should have I done in this situation last night? I did not want to antagonise the situation (e.g. get into an argument with them) because my friends and I were already quite agitated from the loud argument that they had with each other a short while earler and we just wanted to go.

Edited January 1, 2008 by hyperdimension

[Neeranam]

I've never seen a prescription in Thailand.

You should have told them to piss off, they were probably Tesco security guards.

Don't drink so much then you won't need drugs to get it up.

[mrtoad]

The infamous "Thong Lor mob".

Nice little New Year bonus for them though.

Edited January 1, 2008 by mrtoad

[adamx]

What are you supposed to say or do if they approach you?

[lost_in_space]

I'd like to know if anybody has ever successfully called their bluff in LOS.

Friends of mine used to do that in Tijuana over "speeding" tickets. If they went to the station, the fine was always minimal.

I speak Spanish so I could usually talk my way out of anything.

Could you imagine an officer taking you to a police station here and saying "Sarge, I caught this guy with a viagra."?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I'd like to know if anybody has ever successfully called their bluff in LOS.

Friends of mine used to do that in Tijuana over "speeding" tickets. If they went to the station, the fine was always minimal.

I speak Spanish so I could usually talk my way out of anything.

Could you imagine an officer taking you to a police station here and saying "Sarge, I caught this guy with a viagra."?

You can be stiff sometimes

[Neeranam]

I'd like to know if anybody has ever successfully called their bluff in LOS.

Friends of mine used to do that in Tijuana over "speeding" tickets. If they went to the station, the fine was always minimal.

I speak Spanish so I could usually talk my way out of anything.

Could you imagine an officer taking you to a police station here and saying "Sarge, I caught this guy with a viagra."?

You can be stiff sometimes

DrPP, I miss your little one-liners!

I successfuly called someone's bluff outside the dept store in Pin Klao.

I was sitting drinking a bottle of Sang Thip and threw my cigarette on the ground when they approached asking for 2000 baht.

They were security. I said the Thai equivalent of , "away and bile yer heid"

[Prakanong]

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

[hyperdimension]

I successfuly called someone's bluff outside the dept store in Pin Klao.

I was sitting drinking a bottle of Sang Thip and threw my cigarette on the ground when they approached asking for 2000 baht.

They were security. I said the Thai equivalent of , "away and bile yer heid"

I'm a bit rebellious myself but playing out the defiant attitude has got me into trouble in Thailand before. One example is that earlier this year I got stuck between Poi Pet and Aranyaprathet and wasn't allowed to re-enter Thailand because I insisted that I did not need to show a ticket to travel out of Thailand within the next 30 days. I learned that I should respect people in positions of authority when in Thailand, whether I think I'm right (or are actually right) or not.

So if these guys who found my Kamagra pill were actually policemen, things could have been worse if I acted in a defiant manner. Getting handcuffed and being taken to the police station would have been a waste of time for myself and my friends and possilby waste of more money too if I was officially fined. On balance at the time I think I made an okay decision to pay the 2000 baht. It's out of normal character for me to surrender easily but I just wanted to go and enjoy what was left of the night with friends.

I'm quite sure they were looking for illegal drugs like MDMA or Methamphetamine, because they can get some good money out of it. That's why they were looking in every nook in our handbag and purse and wallets. Like many other people, I take erectile dysfunction medicine recreationally. It's no secret that Thailand is propbably the most popular sex tourism destination on Earth, so the police here may regard this medicine as a very soft recreational drug. They may not get as much money as when they catch someone with the highly illegal recreational drugs, but they could still get a little because of the recreational aspect of it. The situation may have been different if the medicine I had was for a life-threatening disease that I needed to take otherwise I'd die tomorrow... but in that case would the patrolling police know and/or believe it and let me off?

Do you guys carry your prescriptions with you if you are carrying medicine that should require one?

What items are forbidden to carry in public? Is it okay to carry a knife? How about a Swiss army style knife? How about sharp scissors? I'm thinking of carrying something for self-defence. Thailand is not a safe place nor are the police to be relied upon.

Edited January 2, 2008 by hyperdimension

[Neeranam]

Do you guys carry your prescriptions with you if you are carrying medicine that should require one?

There are no prescriptions. You were scammed mate, accept it and learn.

For a single pill of 'ya baa', ecstasy, MDMA, you should get off with a 1000 baht fine.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Neeranam

[hyperdimension]

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

I wouldn't call Kamagra "illegal"... it is not in the same category as MDMA and Methamphetamine. "Unapproved" would sound more appropriate.

Boots does not sell the generic versions but does sell Viagra if a prescription is presented. However many other independent pharmacies freely sell the generic versions. Ask them for Viagra or Kamagra and they'd put a few boxes on the counter. Whereas if you asked them for MDMA I'd doubt that they would place a satchel of MDMA pills on the counter for a quick transaction.

I believe Caverta, another generic version of Viagra, is actually FDA-approved.

Edited January 2, 2008 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

Do you guys carry your prescriptions with you if you are carrying medicine that should require one?

There are no prescriptions. You were scammed mate, accept it and learn.

For a single pill of 'ya baa', ecstasy, MDMA, you should get off with a 1000 baht fine.

I've been scammed/overcharged/short-changed countless times in Thailand but this particular one was a first incident for me. I think the problem for me was that I was not fully aware of the legal status of Kamagra. It may not be in the same class as MDMA, but it's not in the same class as Paracetamol either. Some would think that since it can be so easily bought over the counter, that it's fine to possess, but I was uncertain about that. Things don't make full logical sense here.

A 1000 baht fine seems quite small for possession of MDMA. Maybe that is the fine for a local... I wonder if they'd expect more from a foreigner. There's one guy I know who paid a shockingly large "fine" for cocaine possession.

I think for a first time, I played the game okay, with the help of my Thai (but non-local) friend. It's a bit of a precarious game though when you are playing the game with people who are in official positions of authority/power. A wrong move or two could have dire consequences. e.g. the entire population of Australia know about what Michelle Leslie (posession of 2 MDMA pills) and Schappelle Corby (4.1Kg of Cannabis found in her bag at Bali airport) went through in Indonesia. I'm not suggesting that they did any wrong moves. But you'd think that immediate payment of a "fine" to the policeman who found the 2 MDMA pills would settle things... so Michelle Leslie's particular case is a little fishy (e.g. a setup).

[Mobi]

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

If you're going to get fined for possesssing an "illegal" drug generic, then then almost the entire population should be fined for possessing "illegal" DVD's, VCD's MP'3 and CD"s.

[Prakanong]

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

If you're going to get fined for possesssing an "illegal" drug generic, then then almost the entire population should be fined for possessing "illegal" DVD's, VCD's MP'3 and CD"s.

In theory they could

They seem to have used it as an excuse to extract a fine from this guy though!

The govt. Pharmacy Company might be next

[billaaa777]

You should have called the “Tourist Police” immediately and refused to talk or move until they arrived.

[popshirt]

I have Tourist Police in my mobile phone at-the-ready. The number is 1155.

[oxymoron]

You should have called the “Tourist Police” immediately and refused to talk or move until they arrived.

And while you are waiting for them??????????????????????????????

Been there done that.

[orchis]

You should have taken the Kamagra on the spot and threatened them with your hyperdimension.

[Phil Conners]

You should have called the “Tourist Police” immediately and refused to talk or move until they arrived.

And while you are waiting for them??????????????????????????????

Been there done that.

So, are you going to tell us or do we have to guess?

[geriatrickid]

Technical answers'

1. Is it illegal to buy medicine without a prescription? YES

2. Is it illegal for pharmacies to sell medicine without a prescription? YES

3. Is it illegal to carry medicine without a prescription? YES

It's is the same for the EU and the USA. However, most police agencies use common sense and are not going to be idiots if they find a non-controlled substance on you (e.g. Crestor). Any police officer that uses this as an excuse for a shakedown is a corrupt scum.

Thailand is extremely sensitive on this issue in particular because of the lambasting it has taken from the USA & EU on the misuse of various drugs (e.g. antibiotics). Last month the UN Commissioner for drug availability made a very public pronouncement that Thailand should pay more for its drugs (than it was willing to) because it should not benefit from the same treatment as a destitute african nation. The side effect was that Thailand was embarrassed. The MoH is looking for reasons to show it's not facilitating anything untoward, so the treatment of falangs and prescribed drugs will certainly get spicier this year.

20B says the presumed cop probably used the drug for himself at the next corner when he was shaking down a hooker since it's not screened for when and if he has to undergo the famous pee in a cup test.

[Wrong Turn]

I've never seen a prescription in Thailand.

You should have told them to piss off, they were probably Tesco security guards.

Yeah, this sounds very odd.

One time, I was walking in Bangkok near Khao San, and two uniformed cops stopped me, and check my pockets and wallet.

One issue of concern. I carry Vitamin B-complex pills in my pocket when I go out drinking and occasionally carry a fish oil tablet to have with a meal.

If cops, real or fake, uniformed or ununiformed found these, they'd assume they were drugs and haul me off to the station or ask for Baht on the spot.

These "cops" that stopped the OP, don't make sense. Bangkok became a joke a few years ago, however.

[percy2]

Technical answers'

1. Is it illegal to buy medicine without a prescription? YES It depends

2. Is it illegal for pharmacies to sell medicine without a prescription? YES It depends

3. Is it illegal to carry medicine without a prescription? YES It depends

It's is the same for the EU and the USA.

It depends on what drug/medicine it is.

It is illegal to buy Kamagra from a Pharmacy.

It is illegal for a Pharmacy to sell Kamagra.

Carrying Kamagra without the prescription , I guess it is as Kamagra doesn't have FDA approval.

Cheers

[Richard W]

Technical answers'

1. Is it illegal to buy medicine without a prescription? YES

2. Is it illegal for pharmacies to sell medicine without a prescription? YES

3. Is it illegal to carry medicine without a prescription? YES

It's is the same for the EU and the USA.

I'm surprised if the rules have indeed been harmonised throughout the USA and EU (states rights? subsidiarity?). The UK has four categories, with further subdivisions:

• general sales list medicines,
  
• pharmacy medicines, and
  
• prescription-only medicines.
  
  • non-controlled
    
  • controlled
    

In the UK, one obviously doesn't need a prescription for the first two categories (e.g. small packs of paracetamol and large packs of paracetamol). One exchanges one's prescription for non-controlled prescription-only medicines (e.g. felodipine), and if one doesn't pay at the time of obtaining one doesn't even get a receipt. I don't even get the repeat prescription request form, as my pharmacy handles that.

As far as I can make out, mere possession of viagra (non-controlled, prescription-only) without ever having had a prescription for it is not illegal in the UK, though selling it to someone without a prescription for it is illegal.

Now, does anyone here know what the actual law is in Thailand?

[jumnien]

I hate to say the obvious, but if the OP has been detained on two separate continents and cultures with illegal drugs in his possession, he might want to accept his karma and stay illegal drug free when romping about in public.

[Sheryl]

Thailand has the same 4 categories of drugs as the UK. Main difference being that the "pharmacy"sale category includes far more drugs, in fact the majority of pharmaecuticals are in that category. Also, prescription-only usually means provided by a hospital pharmacy, there does not seem to be a system in place for filling a doctor's prescription at an outside pharamcy as far as I can determine.

I have no idea as to the legal status of the buyer in the case of buying a non-controlled but prescription-only drug. It is possible that only the seller and not the buyer are legally liable but I'm not sure and in any case, from a practical standpoint, it was clearly worth the small fine paid to avoid having to sort that out, possibly after a night in detention.

The key problem as I see it is that the OP and his friends were intoxicated in public and acting in a manner that led to a suspicion that they might be on drugs, whioch in turn caused a shake down. The cops (if that's what they were) weren't looking for a non-controlled presciption drug, they were hoping to find controlled or outright banned substances on him, for which they could have extorted serious money. They then just made the best of it when the only thing they found was a non-controlled prescription only.

The preventative is obvious: don't be in the situation of walking the streets in an inebriated and slightly out of control manner. In addition to attracting police shake-downs you render yourself an easy target for thiefs and all manner of other bad folks.

it's also a good idea for anyone taking prescription-only drugs (especially if they are controlled substannces) to be sure to have them in a hospital-issued and labelled container. Especially if you are in the habit of over-imbibing and being on the streets in that street at night. Forfthat matter, if this last applies to you, make sure any medication you have with oyu is clealry labelled for what it is (and of course, never, ever, carry a banned substance or controlled substance that was not prescribed).

[dominique355]

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

If you're going to get fined for possesssing an "illegal" drug generic, then then almost the entire population should be fined for possessing "illegal" DVD's, VCD's MP'3 and CD"s.

In theory they could

They seem to have used it as an excuse to extract a fine from this guy though!

The govt. Pharmacy Company might be next

Let me clear up some misconceptions: The possession of a pharmaceutical substance, which has been manufactured through infringing a patent is NOT a crime. The law says that manufacturing and sale of such drugs is illegal and reserved to the patent owner, but the private person, who bought it for his own consumption is not committing any crime, especially not if he bought it in another, possibly patent free country.

The only reasonable thing to do is really to call the Tourist Police and not talk to these fake policemen.

[Sheryl]

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

If you're going to get fined for possesssing an "illegal" drug generic, then then almost the entire population should be fined for possessing "illegal" DVD's, VCD's MP'3 and CD"s.

In theory they could

They seem to have used it as an excuse to extract a fine from this guy though!

The govt. Pharmacy Company might be next

Let me clear up some misconceptions: The possession of a pharmaceutical substance, which has been manufactured through infringing a patent is NOT a crime. The law says that manufacturing and sale of such drugs is illegal and reserved to the patent owner, but the private person, who bought it for his own consumption is not committing any crime, especially not if he bought it in another, possibly patent free country.

The only reasonable thing to do is really to call the Tourist Police and not talk to these fake policemen.

The way I read the post, the issue was not the patent aspect but rather that the drug itself is restricted to doctor prescription only.

[Prakanong]

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

Yes Kamagra is a generic and can be bought at many places over the counter

But

Generics still need to be licensed which happens after the primary drug is off patent and I doubt Kamagra is licensed as Viagra is still on patent!

So you are with an illegal drug that you could not possible get a prescription for (except TiT)

If you're going to get fined for possesssing an "illegal" drug generic, then then almost the entire population should be fined for possessing "illegal" DVD's, VCD's MP'3 and CD"s.

In theory they could

They seem to have used it as an excuse to extract a fine from this guy though!

The govt. Pharmacy Company might be next

Let me clear up some misconceptions: The possession of a pharmaceutical substance, which has been manufactured through infringing a patent is NOT a crime. The law says that manufacturing and sale of such drugs is illegal and reserved to the patent owner, but the private person, who bought it for his own consumption is not committing any crime, especially not if he bought it in another, possibly patent free country.

The only reasonable thing to do is really to call the Tourist Police and not talk to these fake policemen.

The way I read the post, the issue was not the patent aspect but rather that the drug itself is restricted to doctor prescription only.

I do not want to be overly pedantic as its probably a moot point but how can the drug be restricted to a Dr's prescription if it does not exist in the Thai approved drugs which are published in MIMS?

Its a strange situation - how would this work in the UK as people I am sure have been done for having Kamagra but that may have been the seller