Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[pippomusic]

Somebody died, this is terrible, not for him, he is probably in a better place or in no place at all by now, but for the stream of pain and suffering left beyond...

BUT EXCUSE ME, What is this resentement and DISGUST? Send email of DISGUST to thai embassies? This sounds ABSURD...

Why we like to live and/or stay in thailand? (Put a cross where applies)

1 - With the price of an average meal in our country, we can afford a 5 stars day all included

2 - Women are as beautiful as angels

3 - For who is interested, 1000 baht are usually enough for a first class hooker

4 - Spirituality, superstition and beliefs make magic still exist here

5 - Tropical weather

6 - Fantastic nature

7 - First class services at the price of a snack

8 - People are still quite naiv and open heart

You may be interested in just a few of the above but...

ALL OF THESE, SORRY TO SAY SO, IS BECAUSE WE ARE MORE OR LESS IN THE THIRD WORLD (In case you forgot).

It is terrible to hear news of death and pain, but please keep your complaints for european or american institutions. If you enjoy life here, then accept the inevitable. Try to learn something from the buddhist culture around us, otherwise, GO HOME, enjoy political correctness, and pay a meal 1000 baht.

love

Pippo

Oh God. Another one.

ROFL

It does bring the nutter's out from under their rock a thread like this.

From the rabid sociopaths fantasising that a rabid dog farang has been put down in the street to the airy fairy hippies who then fantasise over 1000 THB high class hookers - amazing Thailand

ahahah airy fairy hippie is the best definition I ever received thanks

I guess you didnt get my point...

Lots of us are here enjoying the benefits of living in a "developing" country.

It just sems pointless to me trying to apply measures of judgement coming from european culture (all western culture descends from europe) to situations that should trigger differend kind of thoughts...

Then, if I used the word "hooker" and that stimulated a puritanist mental self-censorship, which didnt allow you to read the content, I apologize. The use of sarcasm is not appreciated by all. But believe me, many of the farangs here keep point 2 (availability of young cheap hookers) as a key reason to remain in the Kingdom.

Concerning myself, I am still young and pleasant enough not to have to pay for feminine companionship... therefore I am not a user.

respect

Pippo

Disregarding the hooker stuff and where western moral judgements emanate from I am pretty certain modern Asian culture and thought also condems the action of this policeman.

The Chinese, Singaporean Chinese, Malay, Filipino, Burmese etc who all sit within spitting distance of me at work also came to the same conclusions I as a European have about this.

Of course everybody does... probably also martians and pleiadians. And also all of the Thais condemn any act of violence and injustice. Any living being who is in possession of empathy and self-consciousness would.

It is the assumption "these things only happen in thailand, we are better", that sounds as an insult to our intelligence and capability of self-criticism as westerns. I don't want to generalize of course is just an overall feeling... I think would be better to think of us as a whole as human beings. These injusteces from authorities happen everywhere. A bit more here, where the law is more bendable then at our home. This is another side of the reason why we like it here. Life is simpler, easier. At the same time, who is in power can take more advantage. Don't you agree is a reality with double side?

Edited January 9, 2008 by pippomusic

[slapout]

Pippo, I do not know if nutter is the correct way to refer to your post, but I know several who would disagree with your annoucement that all western culture decends from europe, but then, I try to look at this whole story from different points of view as expressed on this subject. Not sure if we will ever know the whole story, but yes, I am still angry about this incident.

[keda]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

What behaviour are you referring to, considering as you say you weren't there?

[jumnien]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

What behaviour are you referring to, considering as you say you weren't there?

Freaky long hair, his ex has bizarre balls tatooed around one eye and they are both hanging out in Pai, of all places. Something is probably going on here that no one is talking about; come on, out with it, what's the real deal?

[chanman]

Back to the topic of the thread:

Regarding Reisigs recent past:

1. This cop approached them in plain-clothes, didn't identify himself as a cop, and punched a strange woman in the head on the street.

Isn't this also one sided hearsay or an unproven statement at the present time?

It was perfectly natural for them to react and try to defend themselves by shoving him away. The cop then acted in a completely unnatural and unwarranted show of force by drawing his gun, and then firing three fatally aimed shots. When Leo del Pinto wrestled with him for the gun, he probably still didn't know the guy was a cop.

2. Reisig allegedly punched a cop two weeks earlier .... where was it -- in a bar??? Was this another social interaction of a plain clothes and undeclared cop? Do we know why she would punch a guy in a bar? No, we don't, and we don't even know if it happened or have her account of things so it is still one-sided heresy.

3. None of this should matter in apportioning blame to the cop and his actions, and the actions of the Thai judicial system. None of it.

Don't jump on me please I am just trying to be fair if you apply a set of rules they should apply accross the board.

[TAWP]

Someone has come on and said that they personally know Reisig and the cop, yet you choose to believe what is in your own mind without any substance. Personally I accept the 'character' references given by sabaijai.

Just because someone says they know someone or have meet someone that says they knew something, doesn't mean they do or did.

This is a forum, anyone can pretend as much as they like...

[Claymore]

]Lets's hope this Drummond guy can continue to report as openly as possible, he's got bigger balls than me that's for sure[/b][/color] and quite frankly (Chloe) I couldn't care which bars he drinks in when he's finished work.

Yes - I have a lot of respect for this guy. I remember his very important and honest reporting of the Katherine Horton case - amongst others.

He is very good an not easily scared off on cases like this but the sensationalist angle attributed to him might be for work he does on the seedier side shall we say where is byline does not appear and its said he uses another "Nom de guerre".

I did hear one story from a BKK Post journo regarding the Chief of London fire brigade and a story in the News of the Screws - it would need corroborating though.

Corroborated! appeared in London SUN written by Jon Ogden of the Nation. But commissioned by Drummond I believe. He does not use nomme de guerre.

Cant believe a Bpost journo wd do him down though. Story centres around a bar called Jools which Drummond does not go to I believe. He wrote story about a Reebok Executive who used to drink there. Its on his website! He talks occasionally about to having to do another 'Brits in the Shit' story - but he's a softie really. Bit human, woman, children rightsish and all that. Plenty of work for him here I guess.

[thaigene2]

I spoke with two eyewitnesses on the scene in Pai, including the owner of the roadside restaurant. Both said the couple were definitely fighting and that Daeng (restaurant owner) asked the policeman to try and stop the fight. Both descriptions of events matched the latest Bangkok Post report, below.

Reisig is allegedly known in Pai for aggressive behaviour towards both resident farangs and Thais, had struck a policeman (the same policeman?) in Be-Bop Bar a few weeks earlier, and was seen fighting with her Thai boyfriend at the most recent Pittalew party. Another related point -- Feun, the Thai boyfriend, had been arrested for drug possession in front of the Pai police station a few months ago. This isn't to say the shootings were in any way deserved, just that there may have been personal history issues involved.

Yup - more rubbish and spin. Why are you guys doing this? Especially those of you who've lived here a long time?

You know as well as I do that during a violent or heated incident, the Thai police will stay in their truck or at the side of the road and watch from a distance until it's over, only then will they move in. And they'll do it in numbers. I've seen a couple of fights here and it's always been several against one - never the other way round (e.g. Thai on Thai and Thai on Farang. The one person would never approach the many - including a cop). Other farangs on this board have stories that will curl your toenails along these lines.

On another note, I sense a "posse" mentality growing over this incident..You think if a lone cop attacked and killed a hi-so Thai that they'd leave it up to the courts to sort out? Still, I wouldn't advise retribution - but if the Canadian guy's family beats the publicity drum hard enough - like the father of the murdered girl in Kanchanaburi, then the system here may not be able to sweep this under the rug.

[keda]

Loss of face is a concept that baffles me, but results in reactions that can be absoutley astounding.

Um yes, many of which either cause or enhance loss of face...but this is LoS, not Europe, so get used to the norm of irrational behaviour.

[kat]

Back to the topic of the thread:

Regarding Reisigs recent past:

1. This cop approached them in plain-clothes, didn't identify himself as a cop, and punched a strange woman in the head on the street. It was perfectly natural for them to react and try to defend themselves by shoving him away. The cop then acted in a completely unnatural and unwarranted show of force by drawing his gun, and then firing three fatally aimed shots. When Leo del Pinto wrestled with him for the gun, he probably still didn't know the guy was a cop.

2. Reisig allegedly punched a cop two weeks earlier .... where was it -- in a bar??? Was this another social interaction of a plain clothes and undeclared cop? Do we know why she would punch a guy in a bar? No, we don't, and we don't even know if it happened or have her account of things so it is still one-sided heresy.

3. None of this should matter in apportioning blame to the cop and his actions, and the actions of the Thai judicial system. None of it.

I also forgot to add to the second point on this list: if she had an alleged confrontation with another cop 2 weeks earlier in the Be-bop Bar, was that cop also off-duty and drunk?

As someone acquainted with the principal characters involved in the case, as well as the witnesses, I find the third-party eyewitness reports more reliable-sounding than any other testimony yet available. The two Thais I spoke to didn't seem afraid at all. But if they do have reason to fear for their lives, why isn't Reisig similarly fearful, since her story diverges most (from that of third-party witnesses and the cop)?

BTW the policemen had his weapon with him because he had just finished his shift. Pai residents who know the cop say it's highly unlikely he would fire unless provoked. Unlike the victims, he apparently has no history of violence in Pai (till now, obviously, and of course the shootings were not warranted in any event). Still there's more to this story than what's coming to us via quickly filed newspaper reports.

Hmm are you serious? Asking why a FALANG born and bred in Canada is not going to be easily cowed and pressured by the thought of Thai police coming to kill her? Thais KNOW they are at the mercy of thier police, ESPECIALLY the poor ones. Falangs have a sense of justice and morality that most Thais do not understand, not because they are morally corrupt but because it simply doesnt work that way in their culture. If I saw my friend get murdered before my eyes and I was hospitalised I would be thinking purely about justice and righteousness. But that is how I was raised in Canada. Even if I was fearful, I would not allow a murderer to get off out of fear, I would be willing to further risk my life and stand by the truth, but maybe that is just me. And possibly, Reisig.

Please if you know Reisig and the cop personally like you said, tell us about them. I would not accept what the witnesses said wholeheartedly due to the fear of retribution from the powers around them, but if you know the killer and vicitim I would like to know about that and would be willing to accept your experiences with them.

Damian

This is a thread about yet another murderous cop in Thailand, out on bail. If you have a problem with what you perceive as my negativity in discussing the facts of this case and widely acknowledged aspects of Thai culture, your problem is much greater than me. Please feel free to counter any comments on this thread which you believe to be falsely or gratuitously negative. I have never claimed to be an "expert" CSI on this case and on the contrary, stated explicitly that neither I or anyone else could make such a claim. Furthermore, I agree, everyone should openly declare their CVs or livelihoods while in Thailand. If that was a requirement, you would very quickly understand the meaning of self-interests and ego investment in portraying a certain representation of issues in Thailand.

This tragic killing and wounding of foreigners always brings out the best in people. What I was trying to say without personally offending any single person (except maybe the policeman who shot the victims) was that this is an open case and wishing a quick death for the alleged suspect is just plain wrong. Most of us on this thread are foreigners who are guests in Thailand. This is a developing country with lots of problems and some systems are obviously out of control. Arkady seems pretty level headed and explains rules of Thai law as they pertain to law and bail. He should be commended for his efforts here. Speculation keeps us engaged on the topic at hand but really doesn't do anyone any good. We should probably be flooding the Canadian Embassy with correspondence that could cause some sense of pressure on officials to act in this case.

Yes, it does indeed bring out the best in people, doesn't it? You are quoting me, so I am responding: I do not seriously advocate a quick death for this policeman anywhere on this thread. I would like to see justice, but justice is not an overriding tenet in Thailand. I also do not see myself as a "guest" in a foreign country in which benefits and convenience only flow one way, especially when I live or have lived legally in a country, worked and paid taxes, obeyed the law and customs.

I also do not adhere to the simplistic refrain that everything is the same everywhere.

[sbk]

Inflammatory posts have been deleted. Lets drop the personal attacks please. This thread has generated alot of interest and it would be better if we could keep it on topic and flame free.

[keda]

This thread is heavily censored! posts supporting Uthai or against the farangs tend to disappear quickly. TV censorship at its best!

The way I heard it TV is the most rigorously censored Thai-related board. Could be wrong though.

Anyway, thoughts invited on an angle presented on another board, that the police have actually charged the alleged offender with the wrong offences, whether deliberately or in haste to be seen to be pretending to do the right thing, so that in the dual unlikelihood of it going to court with a conviction, the alleged murderer has automatic grounds for appeal...which is likely to result in a deal.

[kat]

Back to the topic of the thread:

Regarding Reisigs recent past:

1. This cop approached them in plain-clothes, didn't identify himself as a cop, and punched a strange woman in the head on the street.

Isn't this also one sided hearsay or an unproven statement at the present time?

It was perfectly natural for them to react and try to defend themselves by shoving him away. The cop then acted in a completely unnatural and unwarranted show of force by drawing his gun, and then firing three fatally aimed shots. When Leo del Pinto wrestled with him for the gun, he probably still didn't know the guy was a cop.

2. Reisig allegedly punched a cop two weeks earlier .... where was it -- in a bar??? Was this another social interaction of a plain clothes and undeclared cop? Do we know why she would punch a guy in a bar? No, we don't, and we don't even know if it happened or have her account of things so it is still one-sided heresy.

3. None of this should matter in apportioning blame to the cop and his actions, and the actions of the Thai judicial system. None of it.

Don't jump on me please I am just trying to be fair if you apply a set of rules they should apply accross the board.

No, I wouldn't because I think it's a fair comment. It is very easy to prove or disprove that the cop was off-duty and not wearing a uniform. He was also in the restaurant allegedly drinking. Was he drunk? If he was wearing a uniform, would the scenario have unfolded differently? We only have the victim's and witness' account of this aspect because the suspect - a cop - FLED after the incident.

[Tod Daniels]

It is a sad fact, I didn’t see it mentioned today in the English language paper here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". It has already been swept under the proverbial rug as do most things which could have a negative impact on tourism dollars. Thankfully the international news has it still, but no telling for how long.

A thai friend confirmed they hadn't heard a peep about this on the thai news they watch. You would think with the thai papers penchant for "tabloid style news" with gory pictures and photos it would have at least been mentioned.

Strange how the policeman's story is sooo different from the victim’s version of events, but never forget: this ain’t Kansas, Toto. It is a pissant developing third world country with little or no impact on the world stage and it is NOT an idyllic place full of ever smiling, warm, welcoming people. Too often foreigners are lulled into a false sense of security by the diminutive inhabitants here. This place can get very dangerous in a split second if someone is not aware of their surroundings. As another poster pointed out FACE to a thai is everything, and a perceived slight could set off a chain of events no sane person could predict even with crystal balls. Sadly this is not the first time I have seen thais take "creative license" when recounting a chain of events which may paint them in a less than favorable light.

Lest I am criticized by the “we-b-thai” faction for being a “thai basher”, please know I am tolerant of this country’s and its people’s xenophobia and alleged cultural quirks simply because it is their country I reside in; NOT because I am enamored with, enchanted by, or endeared to these people or this country in any way shape or form.

Back on topic, I think; all in all a very bad thing for everyone involved. We can only hope the truth or at least a close version of it will come out..

[keda]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

What behaviour are you referring to, considering as you say you weren't there?

Freaky long hair, his ex has bizarre balls tatooed around one eye and they are both hanging out in Pai, of all places. Something is probably going on here that no one is talking about; come on, out with it, what's the real deal?

Are these deviancies actually behavioural defects, or lifestyle?

Do any of these defects imply a greater propensity to violence than a Thai cop that's been drinking and possibly in the process of losing face?

Assuming the cop has been 100% truthful, what % of fault would you attribute to him by the mere facts that he drew his gun without identifying himself as a cop, and then ran away after accidentally killing a victim by firing a warning shot into his mouth and wounding one other?

Whilst looking at the reports, many or all which may vary in accuracy, do not get so bogged down by who said and did what that you overlook the fact that two tourists were shot by a cop.

[Andiamo]

Still, I wouldn't advise retribution - but if the Canadian guy's family beats the publicity drum hard enough - like the father of the murdered girl in Kanchanaburi, then the system here may not be able to sweep this under the rug.

Good point - let's hope they do and pressure the Media, Canadian Government, Canadian Embassy officials in Thailand so that it is NOT swept under the carpet.

As an aside, yesterday whilst speaking to two Thai Officials who I know well (both work in the Prison system here), both of them were not aware of this case...

RIP to the victim - this is precisely what he was, despite the "apparent disinformation" circulated by the Thai Police - those so called "Upholders of Justice". NOBODY deserves to die in this manner - even if it turns out there was a disagreement between the parties - we are human beings and NOT animals. We do not live in a jungle, we are supposed to live in a civil society.

It's really quite strange, my mindset whilst living here has done an about-turn, here I would actively avoid Thai Policemen due to previous negative and unsatisfactory experiences when dealing with them. Although I don't like to make generalisations, unfortunately, I have tarred them all with the same brush and they are tainted. Sad but true.

IMO, there needs to be a radical overhaul of the Thai Police system. One thing which needs addressing is, "Who Polices the Police?"

[jumnien]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

What behaviour are you referring to, considering as you say you weren't there?

Freaky long hair, his ex has bizarre balls tatooed around one eye and they are both hanging out in Pai, of all places. Something is probably going on here that no one is talking about; come on, out with it, what's the real deal?

Are these deviancies actually behavioural defects, or lifestyle?

Do any of these defects imply a greater propensity to violence than a Thai cop that's been drinking and possibly in the process of losing face?

Assuming the cop has been 100% truthful, what % of fault would you attribute to him by the mere facts that he drew his gun without identifying himself as a cop, and then ran away after accidentally killing a victim by firing a warning shot into his mouth and wounding one other?

Whilst looking at the reports, many or all which may vary in accuracy, do not get so bogged down by who said and did what that you overlook the fact that two tourists were shot by a cop.

I'm looking forward, not backward. The fact is that this is primarily a farang outlet for information and far more good can be done by suggesting that people behave themselves or risk getting into serious trouble. To get farangs all riled up and more likely to be beligerent when they are drunk toward cops is not serving them well. The fact that two tourists were shot by a cop in no way interests me any more than if two Thais were shot by a cop.

Edited January 9, 2008 by sunrise07

[sabaijai]

Back to the topic of the thread:

Regarding Reisigs recent past:

1. This cop approached them in plain-clothes, didn't identify himself as a cop, and punched a strange woman in the head on the street.

Isn't this also one sided hearsay or an unproven statement at the present time?

Correct. According to witnesses, the policeman was summoned by the owner to stop the fight. No one at Daeng's has said they saw Sgt Uthai strike Reisig, i.e., so far there's no independent corroboration for Reisig's version.

Don't jump on me please I am just trying to be fair if you apply a set of rules they should apply across the board.

I agree, if one rejects witness statements as 'unproven', then the same applies to statements by Reisig or anyone else one cares to quote.

[Prakanong]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

What behaviour are you referring to, considering as you say you weren't there?

Freaky long hair, his ex has bizarre balls tatooed around one eye and they are both hanging out in Pai, of all places. Something is probably going on here that no one is talking about; come on, out with it, what's the real deal?

Now the two victims are probably not the sort I would find in my social circle but just what decade are you living in - freaky long hair and tatoo's.

What do you think is going on here then - come on out with it.

On another thread people have pointed out they think you are a bit weird as you want to push your 2.5 year old child into the modelling world on some kind of ego trip.

Maybe they rushed to judgement of others based on your post a little too quick just like you have because the dead victim had long hair.

TV has some real characters - I know most are not what would be considered "Normal" in many enlightened social circles.

[keyman]

Still, I wouldn't advise retribution - but if the Canadian guy's family beats the publicity drum hard enough - like the father of the murdered girl in Kanchanaburi, then the system here may not be able to sweep this under the rug.

Good point - let's hope they do and pressure the Media, Canadian Government, Canadian Embassy officials in Thailand so that it is NOT swept under the carpet.

As an aside, yesterday whilst speaking to two Thai Officials who I know well (both work in the Prison system here), both of them were not aware of this case...

RIP to the victim - this is precisely what he was, despite the "apparent disinformation" circulated by the Thai Police - those so called "Upholders of Justice". NOBODY deserves to die in this manner - even if it turns out there was a disagreement between the parties - we are human beings and NOT animals. We do not live in a jungle, we are supposed to live in a civil society.

It's really quite strange, my mindset whilst living here has done an about-turn, here I would actively avoid Thai Policemen due to previous negative and unsatisfactory experiences when dealing with them. Although I don't like to make generalisations, unfortunately, I have tarred them all with the same brush and they are tainted. Sad but true.

IMO, there needs to be a radical overhaul of the Thai Police system. One thing which needs addressing is, "Who Polices the Police?"

What is foreign governments able to be doing for cases such this? What Embassy can do to police here?

[kat]

Back to the topic of the thread:

Regarding Reisigs recent past:

1. This cop approached them in plain-clothes, didn't identify himself as a cop, and punched a strange woman in the head on the street.

Isn't this also one sided hearsay or an unproven statement at the present time?

Correct. According to witnesses, the policeman was summoned by the owner to stop the fight. No one at Daeng's has said they saw Sgt Uthai strike Reisig, i.e., so far there's no independent corroboration for Reisig's version.

Don't jump on me please I am just trying to be fair if you apply a set of rules they should apply across the board.

I agree, if one rejects witness statements as 'unproven', then the same applies to statements by Reisig or anyone else one cares to quote.

SJ:

I already responded to this in the later post #528, which you chose not to quote, in which I acknowledged this point and others, with one important caveat:

the cop FLED, full stop. Will we scientifically and indisputably conclude that he was drunk, in plain clothes, and beaten up? No, but the outcome of his behavior and behavior certainly corroborate irresponsibility and intent to cover it up.

[jumnien]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

What behaviour are you referring to, considering as you say you weren't there?

Freaky long hair, his ex has bizarre balls tatooed around one eye and they are both hanging out in Pai, of all places. Something is probably going on here that no one is talking about; come on, out with it, what's the real deal?

Now the two victims are probably not the sort I would find in my social circle but just what decade are you living in - freaky long hair and tatoo's.

What do you think is going on here then - come on out with it.

On another thread people have pointed out they think you are a bit weird as you want to push your 2.5 year old child into the modelling world on some kind of ego trip.

Maybe they rushed to judgement of others based on your post a little too quick just like you have because the dead victim had long hair.

TV has some real characters - I know most are not what would be considered "Normal" in many enlightened social circles.

Actually, I am vice president of the AFS (Abnormal Farang Society). I've never been accused of being normal or associating with those who suffer from such afflictions. Seriously, what is up with the tatooed balls around the ex's one eye. Is this a new trend I'm missing, some new contraception option? As for my child, if you read thru the thread carefully, I'm much more interested in his work in the construction industry.

Edited January 9, 2008 by sunrise07

[LiveSteam]

Still, I wouldn't advise retribution - but if the Canadian guy's family beats the publicity drum hard enough - like the father of the murdered girl in Kanchanaburi, then the system here may not be able to sweep this under the rug.

Good point - let's hope they do and pressure the Media, Canadian Government, Canadian Embassy officials in Thailand so that it is NOT swept under the carpet.

As an aside, yesterday whilst speaking to two Thai Officials who I know well (both work in the Prison system here), both of them were not aware of this case...

RIP to the victim - this is precisely what he was, despite the "apparent disinformation" circulated by the Thai Police - those so called "Upholders of Justice". NOBODY deserves to die in this manner - even if it turns out there was a disagreement between the parties - we are human beings and NOT animals. We do not live in a jungle, we are supposed to live in a civil society.

It's really quite strange, my mindset whilst living here has done an about-turn, here I would actively avoid Thai Policemen due to previous negative and unsatisfactory experiences when dealing with them. Although I don't like to make generalisations, unfortunately, I have tarred them all with the same brush and they are tainted. Sad but true.

IMO, there needs to be a radical overhaul of the Thai Police system. One thing which needs addressing is, "Who Polices the Police?"

What is foreign governments able to be doing for cases such this? What Embassy can do to police here?

Hey I bet they throw the book at the cop. I wouldn't doubt that he will get transfered to another province. That will teach him.

LiveSteam

[Arkady]

I was curious about the suggestion that Reisig was abrasive in Pai before the murder and might have offended some white sex tourist types there or hit a policeman. I have only ever driven through Pai and it seemed like a dreary collection of shacks that it never occurred to me stop in or spend some time there. However, it certainly didn't look like the kind of place that would appeal to main stream sex tourists (those who know the place correct me if I am wrong). If we stick with the facts, one important fact we know is that Reisig has a Thai boyfriend who is described as an artist. He is probably a young guy without much money or connections who speaks reasonable English and makes a living painting pictures for tourists or doing tatoos. This situation would probably cause more trouble for Reisig than any contacts with farangs. The fact that she slept with a Thai man might make the police think she was fair game for other Thai men including them. The police are known to believe that they have prior rights in getting Thai women they regard as of easy virtue to sleep with them (witness the karaoke girl who had her arm amputated for turning down a drunk cop's advances). They probably thought that Fuen was low class trash and many of them were probably jealous that he could sleep with a blond white woman, something most Thai men will only ever do in their dreams. Moving on to less than fact, some one suggested that Fuen had been arrested for drugs. Whether that is true or not one of the reasons many young tourists hang out in that area is to sample weed and opium that is available there. From their descriptions it is reasonable to assume that Reisig, Del Pinto and Fuen were at least occasional users of recreational drugs as would be considered unremarkable in Canada.

This is speculation but I would posit two possible reasons for the policeman's sudden hostility:

1) There may have been an undertone of jealousy in Pai about Reisig and Fuen and their relationship may have been subject of regular bawdy discussion by police. Seeing her walking along with a painted face with a long haired farang man may have inspired a sudden rush of anger in the cop.

2) There may have been some real or imagined drug dealings and the policeman may have felt aggrieved he was cut out of them on his own turf.

[Galong]

Back to the topic of the thread:

Regarding Reisigs recent past:

1. This cop approached them in plain-clothes, didn't identify himself as a cop, and punched a strange woman in the head on the street.

Isn't this also one sided hearsay or an unproven statement at the present time?

It was perfectly natural for them to react and try to defend themselves by shoving him away. The cop then acted in a completely unnatural and unwarranted show of force by drawing his gun, and then firing three fatally aimed shots. When Leo del Pinto wrestled with him for the gun, he probably still didn't know the guy was a cop.

2. Reisig allegedly punched a cop two weeks earlier .... where was it -- in a bar??? Was this another social interaction of a plain clothes and undeclared cop? Do we know why she would punch a guy in a bar? No, we don't, and we don't even know if it happened or have her account of things so it is still one-sided heresy.

3. None of this should matter in apportioning blame to the cop and his actions, and the actions of the Thai judicial system. None of it.

Don't jump on me please I am just trying to be fair if you apply a set of rules they should apply accross the board.

No, I wouldn't because I think it's a fair comment. It is very easy to prove or disprove that the cop was off-duty and not wearing a uniform. He was also in the restaurant allegedly drinking. Was he drunk? If he was wearing a uniform, would the scenario have unfolded differently? We only have the victim's and witness' account of this aspect because the suspect - a cop - FLED after the incident.

I think that this is a very important aspect of the "truth". A professional law enforcement agent should have acted differently. Wouldn't a real cop stay and make sure that the scene of the crime isn't spoiled so the investigation can clear him/her of any wrong-doing? Someone mentioned calling for 'back up'... that's what cops are supposed to do isn't it? If in fact Reisig punched a cop and if this cop knew about that, don't you think that calling for back-up or alerting the HQ that the perp was spotted is the professional thing to do.

There are simply too many questions about the cop's actions that don't add up. Someone pointed out that we TV-ers are professional investigators, but we do come up with legitimate points and points that the proper authorities would come up with too I'm sure.

Anyway, I this type of violence is getting worse... be it the result of too much alcohol, violent TV shows, the influence of the evil West or whatever.

[sbk]

Arkady, I think this is the best part of your entire post:

Moving on to less than fact,

Which, following on the heels of something that is pure speculation on your part, is quite ironic.

[canuckamuck]

Freaky long hair, his ex has bizarre balls tatooed around one eye and they are both hanging out in Pai, of all places. Something is probably going on here that no one is talking about; come on, out with it, what's the real deal?

In case you weren't aware, what you have described is the average appearance of the visitors that find themselves in Pai. Not all visitors of course, but many. Pai is yabaland.

[Sidewindr]

Ok not sure if anyone has put this scenario up but to throw a cat amongst the pigeons ...

What if the father of the unborn baby was the policeman ?? With all these assumptions and conclusions being leapt to I thought I would add another he he

As for doing a runner after shooting, it's quite an intense experience discharging a weapon and even more so discharging it whilst aimed at another individual especially if it is the first time for the individual. So it is understandable that it is possible panic set in after the situation.

[Arkady]

SJ:

I already responded to this in the later post #528, which you chose not to quote, in which I acknowledged this point and others, with one important caveat:

the cop FLED, full stop. Will we scientifically and indisputably conclude that he was drunk, in plain clothes, and beaten up? No, but the outcome of his behavior and behavior certainly corroborate irresponsibility and intent to cover it up.

Well, the evidence that he was beaten up seems pretty slim. Since he fled the scene, he was not so badly injured that he couldn't make his get away. The Kanchanaburi policeman who murdered the British couple went to a hospital to get treatment for his injuries after the murder and the hospital staff later testified that he was blind drunk. There is no suggestion in this case that the killer got any medical treatment, so he may have to rely on unreliable witnesses to testify about that. Equally there will no evidence that he was drunk.

[JungleJim]

More info.

As i mentioned in my previous posts on this subject, I live in Pai and know this policeman having played football with him and and seen him around on numerous occasions over the past 5 years. He is not a bad guy but has a serious drinking problem and family issues. I have seen him on many occasions in the Be Bop bar extremely drunk and packing his pistol both in and out of uniform. Apparently he was suspended from carrying his gun up until recently (for what reason I am not sure) and had only just had this privelige restored.

FACT - many people witnessed him drinking all night in Be Bop prior to the incident. He certainly had not just come off duty. Judging by the state he normally gets into, he would barely have been capable of standing up and would be the most unsuitable person i can imagine to intervene in a domestic with anyone, let alone a farang couple especially as his english is very bad and next to impossible to understand when he is drunk. To be honest, I doubt he can recall what happened and was probably in blackout mode.

This concocted self defense bs is catagorically untrue according to the large number of witnesses. Like I said he was pushed to the ground and reacted straight away. He was not getting beaten up and there was no attempt to wrestle his gun away. I have all this from people who were there! The local people will not get involved as witnesses due to the inevitable repurcussions that would follow. Not sure if there were any tourists that witnessed this.

Whatever some of the more ridiculous posters think of farang behaviour and its rights and wrongs, you try keeping your cool if you found out your wife/girlfriend had been shagging around behind your back and was pregnant as a result. Imagine then, being confronted by some drunken guy you cannot understand and who you would never expect to be a policeman in that state. Some perspective is needed here.

A long hard look at gun carrying proceedure for off duty cops is also needed. As far as I am aware, it is illegal for an off duty cop to be carrying his gun.

The pre-meditated charge is also very confusing, especially if you subscribe to the official police lie err sorry, line.